My latest addition to the harem...

[K1JJ]

very nice heater... my brother has the .38 same style. I am quite accurate with it. My brother shot me in the head with his. I was spotting him one morning in Manchester and the round bounced back over his sholder and split my scalp open.
Hey, can I shoot it if I drop by with some ammo?
my brother painted the bottom of the front sight bright orange so you can aim a lot quicker.

Cool. Yeah, come on over.  I have a nice target area set up that is far enough away from neighbors to be legal. Been shooting here for about 25 years now.  I put in a dirt mound and some hardened, steel boiler plate as backstops. We can shoot from close in to 50+ yards away.    The Huzman and I were out shooting a couple of HossTraders ago here. He's pretty good with both a .45 and rifle.


Bring all the .38 ammo you want. You can try my .45 too. I have plenty of paper targets and ammo.  What is the model of the revolver?  Is it a .38 with what size barrel?  (or .357 magnum?)

BTW, Look at the #3 pic in my first post  and compare the blue mailing envelope to the size of the revolver to get an idea of how large an N frame is...

T

[WA1GFZ]

Tom,
Mistake, my brothers gun is a .357 but we shot .38 specials. It looks just like your's with a 5 inch pipe with the same grips. I love that thing and pretty accurate. He painted the front sight so you are on target when the color drops out.
I have a bunch of .45 ACP ammo. I'll let you know.

[K1JJ]

Hmmm.. maybe it's a S&W 686 in an L frame?   It's a very nice design, especially if it's an older, all forged parts gun before the locks.

We can make good use of the .45 ammo.  Bring whatever guns and ammo you wish with safety glasses and ear protection. 

T

[WA1GFZ]

I was all about safety before I caught a .38 special in the scalp. Man did it sting.
They replaced all the back stops in the Manchester range the next week. They were freaked I was going to make trouble for them. I didn't.
I don't remember the part number of my brother's gun but it looks a lot like your's

[K1JJ]

What kind of back stop did Manchester use?  I see some ranges using steel plate with a dirt background. The bullet usually collapses on the steel and drops right to the ground.  Maybe there was a rock in the dirt pile that made it bounce back?           Or did they use tires?  (NG)

T

[KB2WIG]

 "  They were freaked I was going to make trouble for them. I didn't. "

Free lifetime membership?  Or you didn't want to chance the lifetime part??

klc

[ke7trp]

I have the 686-2 in 357 mag.  Nice gun.  Super quality.  Light trigger.   I also have a Ruger Black hawk 45 convertible.  This revolver comes with a 45 long colt and a 45 acp cyl.  You can interchange.  The trouble with acp cartridges and revolvers is the strength.  Since the ACP round has the rim flush, you rely on the cyl itself to neck down. In a sense, This makes the cyl part of the forcing cone.  Dont load this type of revolver up hot, If you do, You will likely blow the side out. This has happend TWICE with +P ACP rounds to us over the years.  As a result, We tend to like more traditional Rimmed cases for high power work on a revolver.

I got my dad a 460 smith a few years back.  What a great gun if you shoot 45 LC out of it. What a handfull if you shoot 454 casull out of it.  What a nightmare if you shoot the 460 corbon out of it.  I dont desire to shoot it again.  Its 260 grains of bullet comming out at 2600!.   That thing set the damn walls of the booth on fire.  My dad was determined to take deer with it.  Its so damn powerfull, we could never shoot the thing accurate.

I just went to the range today,  Shot the 45 kimber circa 1993 pistol.  What a great gun. same hole groups at 10 yards. The new kimbers are junk in comparison. What a shame.  Now, they are made in tailand and assembled here.

Also shot my new Walther PPS in 9mm.  I got this one as I needed a small gun now that we can carry conceled in AZ without a permit. This gun gave me trouble but once I placed my finger in the groove at the front trigger guard, I got the groups down to 2 inch at 10 yards. Not bad. 

The best part about todays shooting was the 22's.  I used to shoot bullseye competition.  I pulled my IZH35M out of the case with red dot scope and Centurion ammo.  Ran the target out to 65 ft (indoor) and rang out a 2 inch group free standing!  The guys where just shocked.  Lots of fun today!

C

[WA1GFZ]

Tom,
It was the old Nike site in Manchester. My Dad was a member so we would go with him. There was thick rubber mats and steal plate behind them. The plates were bowed back. At the time the rubber was looking pretty beat. The targets ran on a rail so you could set the distance out to about 75 feet. So you can imagine the nice pattern hole in the mat behind the target. Anyway the round bounced back at me. I was looking over my brother's sholder busting his butt because he drank a bit too much coffee that morning. My Dad used to drag us there first thing Saturday morning so you had to drink enough coffee to get going early saturday but not too much that you got the shakes.

[K1JJ]

Hi Clark,

Yep, the 686-2 is a fine revolver. They are made like watches.  Interesting on your other .45 ACP experiences. 


Frank:  Evidently rubber is a poor backdrop material. There was a thread I read where a police officier practicing at a range took his eye out from a rubber bounce back.  It seems rubber works most of the time but not always.  I know hardened steel plate is good cuz I have a frame about 2' in front of the steel plate that hangs the paper targets. I never see signs of bullet fragments bouncing back even 2' into the paper.  They just fall to the dirt below.  But I'm always open to suggestions and improvements.

T

[WA1GFZ]

Tom,
I think their biggest problem was the steel wasn't on an angle so the round diverted down. It just was bowed out and away.. at first we thought he hit the target support. The support is a 2X2 angle with the point facing the shooter. The round would never bounce back from that. We gave it a close look and no marks.
We were the only people shooting that day so it didn't come from another range.
The rubber looked fine except for a small pattern of holes behind the target track.

[WB2EMS]

If you're using steel as a backplate, I think it really needs to be angled down at maybe a 30 degree angle or more. The danger seems to be when you hit something square on, where it's 90 degrees to the bullet path - those can bounce stuff back at you. There is a famous youtube video of a fellow shooting a 50 BMG at a target a couple of hundred yards away and the first shot ricochets and comes whizzing back and hits him in the head with his ear protectors fortunately taking the brunt of the hit. You can hear the tumbling bullet as it comes back at him, pretty amazing.

At a SASS event I shoot at, we get backsplatter from the steel targets. A lot of Single Action Shooting Society or 'cowboy action' shooting is up close at reactive steel targets. The rounds have to be unjacketed and at or below 900 fps, and even with that I've had lead particles hit me in the legs (not hard enough to hurt much). Being unjacketed, they tend to break up pretty good as they hit the targets.

I always angle my steel back and down at a good angle, and often hang it so it can move and absorb some of the energy that way too by rocking up when it's hit. So far, so good.

[K1JJ]

Interesting.

Yep, I saw that video today.  It took quite a long time for the whining bullet to come back... :-)


I'll angle my steel sheet down to 30 degrees next time I go out there.  I think most of the energy is dissipated when the bullet collapses, thus the pile of lead directly underneath, but the angle will help further for safety.  Thanks for the suggestions.

T

[W8EJO]

Those moon clips are a PITA.

[W4EWH]

We carried them off-duty as a "downtown" gun, but since I was a line MP, I used the 1911 .45 while on duty.

Bill, did you train/ship as 95-Bravo out of Ft. McClellan AL. ?
                                                                                     D

No, I was trained at Fort Gordon, and I was in country from ~9/71 to 6/72.

W1AC

[K1JJ]

Those moon clips are a PITA.

I understand the metal moon clips are a terror on the fingers. However, the platdick ones are a joy to use and double as very fast speedloaders.


Check out:
http://www.ezmoonclip.com/

I just placed an order for fifteen - thanks for reminding me...

T

Yaz's birthday this week:

[KB2WIG]

Nice grips.


klc

[KC2YOI]

Nice Hat for the Yaz 

OK Bill, I did Basic / AIT as an MP at McClellan in 86.

                                                             DJ

[w1vtp]

OK Guys (and Gals)

Check out the recoil on this 41 Mag.  This guy is two handing it and it still comes back on him.  'Magine a single handed shooting with this beauty!!  When I single hand it, I let it recoil up to absorb the shock -- works for me.  It's not a piece for rapid shooting but would make an awesome deer revolver if scoped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykdR-7q3GoQ

Did I say that after several rounds your hand starts to hurt right where it comes back on ya -- but it's still a blast to shoot (pun intended)

Al

[ke7trp]

Check this out. This is the 460 that I got my dad.  Not much muzzle flip as it has a big compensator on the barrel.  But it sure kicks back hard.  I was in pain for a few days after shooting it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhJz7bejbKQ

[KE5YTV]

Al,

 I never could shoot my Blackhawk 41 Mag without it kicking back and digging the trigger spur into the web of skin between my thumb and forefinger. Tried two handed, oversize grips, etc. Never could tame it. Finally traded it in on a S&W Model 29 44 Mag w/6" barrel. I can shoot it without bleeding. I can handle the " Dirty Harry " 44 Mag. but I wasn't man enough for that Ruger 41 Mag!

Mike

[K1JJ]

Yep, the .41 and .44 mag rounds are flamethrowers.

I think we all tend to forget how powerful even a smaller .38 special round is.  The other day I tried a .38 round (wadcutter) into a standard steel 55 gallon drum. That metal is no pushover. The .38 special round went clean through both sides.

I then tried the .45acp round and it ripped through with even more impact damage.  Even these rounds are a handful. Just imagine shooting one without ear protection and eye gear. The powder blow-back in itself is enough. (Or shoot a magnum round at night with no protection, in an emergency)

Something tells me we should be using Star Wars alien laser technology by now - instead of 500 years blowing up firecrackers in steel chambers to drive a lead bullet 1000+' /sec ... What a bunch of Neanderthals we are

T

[K9PNP]

I think we all tend to forget how powerful even a smaller .38 special round is.  The other day I tried a .38 round (wadcutter) into a standard steel 55 gallon drum. That metal is no pushover. The .38 special round went clean through both sides.
T

Try a .38 Special unjacketed hollow point into some ballistic jel.  Sure proves the point on stopping power for a 'common' round.

[K1JJ]

It's interesting that the .38 wadcutter (target bullet) is rated higher than a hollow point for stopping power.

Check out this thread - interesting and lively discussion about various bullet size effectivness:

http://www.socnet.com/archive/index.php/t-80426.html


I still like the .45ACP round the best.




And here's one poster's philosophy:

The keys are

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.



These guys take their shooting as seriously as we take radio...  

T

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Good advice that...

[WA1GFZ]

Tom,
Wadcutter has less mass so goes faster F=MV^2
I bought my Dad some FMJs once. he took them to a sand pit and had some fun.
They didn't allow them at the range.
Yes angle that plate and think of Newtons third law.