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Author Topic: Basement or attic shack?  (Read 36416 times)
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KE6DF
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« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2011, 02:38:49 PM »

  LIVING ON A SMALL HILL HAS IT ADVANTAGES.  I HAVE A BETTER GROUND AND SHORTER GROUND RUNS

Probably not too many floods either.
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N8ETQ
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Mort


« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2011, 03:23:55 PM »

Yo'

  Got water in my basement last night. First time since "Old Buzzard
Bob" W8EPQ passed. Can't recall when that was but it's been a while.
The wife and I were sitting down here having coffee the morning of
his funeral, The water came up so fast, we didn't even hear it. It came
up from the drains.

   My fear is that with "Union" membership hitting an all time high in lows,
and with the EPA Mandating extensive sewer re-work, that will be the
new "Slush Fund" for our PECKER's.

"Pubicly Elected City or Kounty Executive Representatives"

   OTOH if its upstairs you could get a tornado. Our PECKER's are playing
with the NWS too.

It's really a "Crap Shoot".

/Dan
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W1RKW
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« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2011, 04:17:41 PM »

My shack is in the basement. I have a water tight basement so no problem there. But did experience 2 plumbing problems in the last 8 years of being here. Some reconfiguration and beef-up will prevent repeats.  Not to worried about it now. Got excellent grounding and power supply.  Heating and cooling not an issue. I just wish I had some windows.
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Bob
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Home of GORT. A buddy of mine named the 813 rig GORT.
His fear was when I turned it on for the first time life on earth would come to a stand still.
K1JJ
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« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2011, 06:02:08 PM »

I just wish I had some windows.

A digital camera with a big screen looking at the back yard - and a mic piping in the birds wud be the next best thang... Grin
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Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed.  Easily done in DSP.

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« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2011, 12:17:23 PM »

Frame out a box, stick in a few flo resent tubes, throw the switch; cover with some curtains... thars yer window.


Go to the AM window and download the crickets.

http://www.amwindow.org/audio/htm/wa1mtz.htm


klc
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What? Me worry?
The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2011, 12:56:04 PM »

Frame out a box, stick in a few flo resent tubes, throw the switch; cover with some curtains... thars yer window. klc

Curtains? Curtains?  Real men dont need no stinkin curtains! ! ! ! ! !  Shocked  Grin
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KZ5A
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« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2011, 01:01:09 PM »

I had a second story shack in Georgia during the 90's.  Had about 35 feet of wire between the TX and the closest ground rod.  I experienced a wide variety of "Bad RF Ground" related issues that I never fully resolved. 

I tried one of those MFJ ground tuners, 1/4 wave stubs attached to the TX ground, and multiple, different length, runs to the ground system.    I was out of ideas and contemplating moving the shack to the basement but got transferred to Texas before I got around to it.

I'd vote for the basement.

Currently the KZ5A shack is in a 25x50 all steel barn with a serious RF ground system accessible about 6 feet from the TX's, best setup ever.  I even use the structure as the counterpoise for a 160,80, 40 vertical installed dead center on the middle of the roof and have zero RF ground issues.

I'm speaking to you from inside the antenna!!!!

73 Jack KZ5A
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73 Jack KZ5A
KB2WIG
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« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2011, 01:16:18 PM »


"Curtains? Curtains?  Real men dont need no stinkin curtains! ! ! ! ! !  Shocked  Grin "


Foiled again...

SRI, OM,

I am humbled.

Frame out a box, stick in a few flo resent tubes, throw the switch;   Grab a piece 'o plexiglass, rub it up with steel wool, cover the frame ... thars yer window.

Now, I feel clean.


klc




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W8IXY
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« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2011, 02:37:00 PM »

In my 51 years of operating, I have used shack locations in a basement, upstairs bedroom, garage and first floor bedroom/office room in s single story house.  I have found the most important thing that you need to do to keep RF out of the shack is to properly couple the feed line to the antenna at the antenna feed point.  I have a 4BTV on the roof, and a 1/2 wave end fed "L" for 75 which also works as a 1/4 wave end fed "L" on 160.  I have 13 radials on the 4BTV and use a large length of chain link fence for the "L" to operate against.  The roof mounted 4BTV was tuned for minimum VSWR per the book, and I built a hi to lo impedance matching circuit for the "L" on 75.  On 160, no matching circuit is needed as the minimum VSWR sits right around 1850.  I do have a feed line choke at the feed point for each antenna.  The ground in the shack is for the AC mains.  Outside, I have the coax lines connected through a lightning arrestor to the feed into the room window.  There is an 8 foot ground rod in the back yard to which the lightning arrestor is connected, and also a run of #4 solid copper wire from the rod to the AC mains ground at the house mains entry point.

I have no RF in the shack, even running up to 800 watts out.

I learned a long time ago in my broadcast career that matching the antenna at the feed point is very important to provide an adequate RF ground at the feed point.  You don't want 50kw coming back in at you.   Then, simply grounding the indoor equipment together at a single point, and connecting that point to the mains ground results in an "RF cold" shack, and no AC mains "bites" among all the pieces of equipment.

Keeping the RF out of the shack for me is making sure all of the RF I am generating is going out through the INSIDE of the coax, and transferred to the antenna with no reflections back toward the shack, or conducted back via the outside of the coax cable.   YMMV, but that works for me, and I thought I'd pass it along.


73
Ted  W8IXY
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K5WLF
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« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2011, 11:21:29 PM »

KZ5A and K8IXY --

I agree with both of you. I have a 5-BTV on the metal roof of a metal-sided house. I took care to ensure that the antenna gound side was well-bonded to the metal roof and that the roof panels are well-bonded to each other. There are no RF problems inside the house and the antenna works very well with no radials. Outside of about 200 miles. It ain't worth a damn for close-in work. Gotta have a dipole for that. But a vertical on a metal roof is a great radiator. At least at my house. YMMV.

Like Jack, "I am speaking to you from inside the antenna".

ldb
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2011, 10:42:22 AM »

Once I get the basement water problems resolved I'm moving back to the basement. I'm on the second floor now and have no problems but I miss the basement. That's my first choice.
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WBear2GCR
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Brrrr- it's cold in the shack! Fire up the BIG RIG


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« Reply #61 on: July 27, 2011, 04:47:30 PM »

Be CERTAIN to get a  kit from one of the home improvement stores and check RADON the levels in ur basement!!

Quite frankly I never even thought about it for a second...

In the course of checking out a new potential QTH, I ran two kits (~$10ea with the lab included) and found a ~2.0 picocuries level. Now this is below the federal warning level of 4.0 picocuries, BUT it represents a 3x-4x times increase in the potential for lung cancer!!

Given the time I spend in my lab/shack, it's a big consideration.

If I get the new QTH, I'll have to have a go at sealing the boundaries around the floating slabs in the basement, and sealing the slab and maybe the concrete block walls as well, then retest. The tests need to be done with the air not moving and the room sealed. One of the big problems is that if you run hot air heat, or central air, you could be pumping Radon gas through the house... btw, and fwiw, I read that Radon is heavier than air by 6x... (don't sleep in the floor in ur basement?)

                     _-_-bear

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W1RKW
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« Reply #62 on: July 27, 2011, 04:52:53 PM »

That's actually not a bad idea.  I have a few LCD computer monitors doing nothing.  I could hang them on the walls.

I just wish I had some windows.

A digital camera with a big screen looking at the back yard - and a mic piping in the birds wud be the next best thang... Grin

Frame out a box, stick in a few flo resent tubes, throw the switch; cover with some curtains... thars yer window.


Go to the AM window and download the crickets.

http://www.amwindow.org/audio/htm/wa1mtz.htm


klc
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Bob
W1RKW
Home of GORT. A buddy of mine named the 813 rig GORT.
His fear was when I turned it on for the first time life on earth would come to a stand still.
W1RKW
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« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2011, 04:58:47 PM »

A radon test was part of getting the CO here 8 years ago.  No radon or should I say way below gov. standards. CT has some of the highest radon concentrations in the US. Even the well water supply was tested for radon since the well is over 300ft down.

Be CERTAIN to get a  kit from one of the home improvement stores and check RADON the levels in ur basement!!

Quite frankly I never even thought about it for a second...

In the course of checking out a new potential QTH, I ran two kits (~$10ea with the lab included) and found a ~2.0 picocuries level. Now this is below the federal warning level of 4.0 picocuries, BUT it represents a 3x-4x times increase in the potential for lung cancer!!

Given the time I spend in my lab/shack, it's a big consideration.

If I get the new QTH, I'll have to have a go at sealing the boundaries around the floating slabs in the basement, and sealing the slab and maybe the concrete block walls as well, then retest. The tests need to be done with the air not moving and the room sealed. One of the big problems is that if you run hot air heat, or central air, you could be pumping Radon gas through the house... btw, and fwiw, I read that Radon is heavier than air by 6x... (don't sleep in the floor in ur basement?)

                     _-_-bear


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Bob
W1RKW
Home of GORT. A buddy of mine named the 813 rig GORT.
His fear was when I turned it on for the first time life on earth would come to a stand still.
KE6DF
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« Reply #64 on: July 27, 2011, 05:53:54 PM »

Here is a Radon risk map by county.

Looks like most of Central and Northern California is OK.

Plus we don't have basements anyway.

Dave

* radonzonemapcolor.pdf (403.35 KB - downloaded 237 times.)
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K5UJ
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« Reply #65 on: July 28, 2011, 09:39:45 AM »

3 or 4 years ago I got one of those radon testing kits and put it in my basement away from the furnace and a few feet above  the floor and left it there for around 15 months.  then i sent it in to a lab for evaluation.  The report that came back was a post card with the level measured.  it was 0.6 picocuries above the acttion level whatever that was, 2 or 4, I forget.

That's all the card said.  it didn't provide any frame of reference for this, i.e. was this way way up there as in you'll die in a year if you don't turn your house into a superfund site, or was this so low, it is statistically insignificant?   So I was left to perform my own investigation into the statistics, which is what I did.  What I learned from gathering data, reading and talking to people who study radioactive agents in the environment professionally, was that if you don't smoke, (that is an important distinction) being at 0.6 over the action level is statistically insignificant. 

The other thing consumers should know is that all of these radon remediation businesses never guarantee that they will completely eliminate radon from your dwelling.   What they guarantee is that they will get you below the EPA action limit.  That's all.  So I could have paid some business to have some guys come in and install all kinds of duct work and ventilation for a few thousand bucks and gotten down to around 0.3 or 0.5 below the EPA picocurie limit (It is some no. of picocuries per unit of volume which you have to convert to some other measuremennt for some of the statistical reports) and these guys wouild have collected their fee, considered their work done and left.  And my probability of a health complication would have been unchanged. 

This is the part of the whole radon thing that in my opinion is a racket.   You get no barometer or reference frame with the test result to give you an idea of how bad your situaiton is, then you get some outfit who will charge you hundreds, or thousands of dollars to do work that doesn't really lower your risk if you are just a tad over the limit. 

Important:  Everyone should still have the test done if they reside in a radon area (usually the upper Midwest and East) and if the result is extremely high, i.e. 20 picocuries for example,  then that is an entirely different matter and they should have the remediation work done.   My point was that at the low end, if you fall into the 2-5 range and don't smoke, the radon risk drops below the noise level.
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KE6DF
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« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2011, 11:12:14 AM »

I tested our granite counters in the kitchen with a Geiger counter. There was measurable radioactivity there -- about equal to two extra dental xrays per year.

Not totally sure about the accuracy of the Geiger counter as it hasn't been professionally calibrated, but the radio activity was measurable.

On another hazard, we have some communities in the Sierra Nevada foothills where there is naturally occurring asbestos in the soil. When you sell a house in these areas there are special disclosures you have to make to the buyer. This is probably more of a problem in this part of California than radon.

If one thing doesn't get you, another will.

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