Basement or attic shack?

[Opcom]

whatever you do, dont stick it in a uncooled garage that is facing the afternoon sun. My air temps in there have hit over 105 at times.

only 105?

my vote: basement. I wish I had a basement. I like bunkers and industrial decor. One thing if there is any worry about plumbing - it might be worthwhile to place some cinderbock/concrete blocks where your racks and operating position will be, and either build a deck from wood or lay down a (large) piece of sheet steel. Your station sits on that. In case of a plumbing disaster, there may  be time to turn off the water before it gets into the rigs. The old raised floor concept.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I've had attic, garage and basement radio rooms. The basement is the best by far since it's a walk-in basement, so getting big radios in and out is easy. And it's dry, well insulated and is heated and cooled.

The garage was great for getting stuff in and out too (just  roll up the door and roll the stuff in or out), but it was uninsulated and had no built in heating or cooling. If it had been well insulated, it might have been the best arrangement since it provided lots of room, it was a stand alone building (a true radio shack) and it provide excellent RF shielding (it had a tin roof and aluminum side). That shielding combined with having the antennas more that 100 feet away meant no RFI issues in the shack.

[N3DRB The Derb]

me and the missus are saving up to get a window cut in the side of the house and a window installed so we can install a good sized AC window unit for next summer. Most days, you just cant stay in there at all. between the heat, my health problems,  and being shuttled around like a piece of luggage between her job and my dad's house for 3 to 4 days a week, I just cant get anything done.

One good thing - I'm less than 6ft from the 200A service entrance. Now that I have drug insurance again I wont be shelling out >$600 a month just for my drugs after this Friday. Going to install a dedicated surface mounted 100 amp sub box with conduit mounted to the wall just for radios and most of all, The Mauls.

Professional services are very cheap here. The GFI breaker is still kicking out due to RF. I can make it kick out just from the Yaesu keying down. A couple of nice guys from a business called Todd Electric I've had here before are gonna fix me up right.

[KB2WIG]

 " The problem with using a sump pump to keep a basement from flooding, is that when you need it the most during an extended downpour, that is the most likely time for a power outage to occur, caused by a nearby lightning strike or high wind. "

For thems in a situation simular to Don's, there are a few methods of interest. One is a battery backup for the sump pump. Another way is to install a water powered sump pump. It works the same way as a normal pump, but the power source is a water supply....  preferably a municipal water system, not a well.

http://www.radonseal.com/pumps/water-powered-pumps.htm

klc

[KM1H]

In this area it is almost a necessity to have a backup generator as power failures are the norm during storms.
 
Even a deep cycle battery and inverter wont keep a pump running very long.

During one extended winter outage the carb on my 5KW generator decided to plug up. Used the 1500W inverter, connected to the daily beater Taurus, that normally serves at outdoor 'fests and kept the furnace and forced hot water circulators running thru the night in 15* weather. Needless to say I overhauled the carb shortly after daylight.

In rural New Hampshire ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Carl
KM1H

[W3RSW]

You can build a 'water powered' pump yourself.  It, of course, depends on a city water supply that has pressure and is operated by the venturi effect or what we called a "syphon" in the nat. gas business. We use air compressors feeding across a side tapped venturi tube to vacuum draw and exhaust nat. gas from pipeline sections to remove the last vestiges of gas for safety reasons before welding pipe on that section, repairing valves, etc.

In the water driven pump "City" water is first regulated to a managable pressure,(the device on the right side of the sales pix) then run through a constriction, say 1" reduced to 1/4" internal ID, where the input water is connected to the center of the "T"  as shown. 

When water or gas/air is constricted in it's flow, it's velocity increases and the pressure lowers in the constricted section.  This in effect exerts a relative "vacuum" on the water inlet port thus pulling water into the main venturi stream from the side port of the "T."

The reason 'city' water is used assumes only a local power outage.  IF your city power goes down and you don't have a local generator, say to pump your well, then your ventrui pump goes down too.

Sorry for the tortured language, but the water driven pump assumes a pressured water supply by others even through emergencies.   If your using your own generator then, of course, you can use any electric pump, sump, trash, garden hose or otherwise.

[w4bfs]

Hi Rick ... I believe the pump you describe is called an eductor ... can use compressed air as well ..use them quite a bit in the nuclear biz ... woooooosh ....beefus

[W3RSW]

Yeah, you used correct terminology.  In the patch the old hands just called them syphons...     I always thought that was incorrect terminology. In my lexicon a syphon uses natural air pressure to move liquid from a higher level to lower,.... say like your stealing gas 

But then who was I as a budding eng'r years ago when I first heard the term to correct the ol' boys. 
"Not I," said the little red hen.

So if you think eductors are loud you ought to hear a gas well "blowin' down" from 5000 psi. to atmosphere through 7 inch casing.  Used to do this to remove entrained liquids from well bore in Northern Pa. gas storage fields, back before the state agencies and EPA frowned on such.  Even in those days, a lot of us knew it was destructive to the well bore, producing face, etc.   A lot of people had to retire before the practice fully stopped.

"who knows what goes on in the backwoods if nary a soul (that matters) is around to hear it."

dun, di, dun, - dun, dun...... (guitar pickin' - not dueling.)

[WU2D]

Yeah you could have a whole house shack like WA1HUD. The only place I did not find a station was in the upstairs bathroom (but I did not look that hard, so there could have been a Heath Twoer in the medicine cabinet).

[steve_qix]

I would absolutely avoid the basement for the other reason cited, and - and probably more importantly -

     ->the psychological factor.  <-

It's usually not naturally lighted, below ground, beneath other people walking around (I **hate** that sound), and - well, in the cellar 

Can't you take some unimportant room like the dining room or living room    for the shack??   

Oh, on RF in the shack, etc........ if you go upstairs, USE FOIL FACED, HARD BOARD INSULATION (thermax) and bond the faces with METALIZED DUCT TAPE.  I did this in my own house (1 inch TherMax), with metalized WIDE duct tape, and I ended up with a fairly effective shield.  AM radio reception is _MUCH_ weaker inside than out, and cell phones often don't work inside (and I can _see_ the cell tower less than 1 mile away !!!!!!).  So, I can attest to the effectiveness of the shielding.

Put the fiberglass against the walls and celings, and the TherMax over that. 

Of course an addition on the first floor would be the berries !!!

Regards,

Steve

[N0WEK]

I would absolutely avoid the basement for the other reason cited, and - and probably more importantly -

     ->the psychological factor.  <-

It's usually not naturally lighted, below ground, beneath other people walking around (I **hate** that sound), and - well, in the cellar 

Can't you take some unimportant room like the dining room or living room    for the shack??   

Oh, on RF in the shack, etc........ if you go upstairs, USE FOIL FACED, HARD BOARD INSULATION (thermax) and bond the faces with METALIZED DUCT TAPE.  I did this in my own house (1 inch TherMax), with metalized WIDE duct tape, and I ended up with a fairly effective shield.  AM radio reception is _MUCH_ weaker inside than out, and cell phones often don't work inside (and I can _see_ the cell tower less than 1 mile away !!!!!!).  So, I can attest to the effectiveness of the shielding.

Put the fiberglass against the walls and celings, and the TherMax over that. 

Of course an addition on the first floor would be the berries !!!

Regards,

Steve

Lots to think about from everybody!

The attic has a thermax lining over the polyurethane foam to give me a bit more insulation and a thermal break over the 2x4 rafters. I like the view. With the new insulation, and I've still got to finish the Thermax, it doesn't get much warmer than outside ambient temps and it won't take much to air condition. I also doubled up all the attic floor joists when I redid the floor, insulation and wiring; the support for that floor is a bit iffy, since the people who built the house were brick layers but didn't know anything about interior framing.

On the other hand, the basement doesn't bother me either, I used to be a submarine sailor. 

My basement hasn't had any water in it since it was built in 1915, it's as dry as a bone and my regular shop space is in the next room. The main breaker box is right there and RF grounds are easier. I'm high and dry and way outside any flood plain. The room I would use is the only one without any major plumbing, and what plumbing I have in the basement is all new copper.

I'm still undecided but leaning toward the basement.

Thanks to everyone for the input!

Greg

[W3RSW]

Greg,
Well, you've just described my shack.  Still on Steve's amwindow.org.
http://amwindow.org/pix/htm/w3rsw/w3rsw1.htm
 Note the breaker panel covered by QSL's in the background.

I still miss the views I had in my old second story shack.
I don't miss the crap behind the camera's lens that you don't see 

[N0WEK]

Greg,
Well, you've just described my shack.  Still on Steve's amwindow.org.
http://amwindow.org/pix/htm/w3rsw/w3rsw1.htm
 Note the breaker panel covered by QSL's in the background.

I still miss the views I had in my old second story shack.
I don't miss the crap behind the camera's lens that you don't see 

That's a nice clean shack. I like the "Shoebox".

I know what you mean about all the stuff behind the camera; I'm going to have to get rid of about half of everything I own to get things uncluttered and my garage hasn't had a car in it in years!

[W1RKW]

I'd opt for the basement as long it is a dry area.  Just a warning though. 2 years ago I had a crap out with the plumbing over the operator position and gear got wet (but not soaked).  Even in a house that is only a few years old I wouldn't trust the plumbing.  Try to locate your gear from plumbing if possible.

[KB2WIG]

"  MY problem is Mr. Toad. He scares me. He stands up and looks throught the window at me.  "


Well, he's back. He's trying to get in through the window.


klc

[KE6DF]

We in California suburbia don't have this problem.

No one has a basement, and no one has a usable attic.

I use a one car garage with a slab floor.

[Mike/W8BAC]

We in California suburbia don't have this problem.

No one has a basement, and no one has a usable attic.

I use a one car garage with a slab floor.

Hi Dave,

I grew up in a Detroit suburb and moved to California right after High School. I spent 30 years in the Sacramento area. I loved the fact that cars didn't rust and lasted as long as the owner wanted them to last BUT the fact that houses came without basements was a real bummer. When I moved back in 2000 my first priority was to find a house with a DRY large basement. I'm happy to say I found one but cars still melt prematurely from the salt on the roads. They don't rot nearly as fast as in the 1970's but it still makes me sick to see a 10 year old vehicle rust through.

Mike

[AJ1G]

My first shack as a JN in high school was in an unfinished upstairs attic space in a dormer.  I don't think I even had an RF ground up there.  Maybe a wire to some roughed in plumbing that was  at the floor level for the bathroom that eventually went in the space.  It was a perfect spot for a small shack, right next to my bedroom, but boy was it hot in summer - Ir ended up in the left rear corner of the basement.  The basement in that house had no bulkhead or other ground access.  I was given a Navy TDQ VHF transmitter that never made it down there because it was too big and heavy to be brought through the house. It may still be in a shed in Steve, KL7JT's parents yard.

When we moved into our current house in 1979 I didn't have a lot of BA gear, and set up my SB line in our family room.  That was really very comfortable, but there were obvious conflicts when Diane and or the kids were watching TV.  After Diane found a 2 year old Ben  pulling the cables out of the back of one of the radios, I relocated to the left rear corner of the basement.  It's a very good location to have a short RF ground and has ground level access through the garage as the house is built into the side of a slope.  Also easy to run cable from one section of the shack to another in the overhead.  The workbench is on right there also.  We used to run a dehumidifier in the basement in really hot humid weather, but over the years it seems that the ground beneath the basement slab has dried up somewhat and it's usually never too sticky down there anymore.   In the winter it's usually pretty cozy down there and in the summer usually the coolest part of the house unless the A/C is being used upstairs.  I think the main disadvantage of a basement shack is that unless you frame off a dedicated room down there you eventually have a lot of encroachment of non-radio stuff that makes the space look like, well, a basement.

If you do have a basement shack, be  careful of where you site you gear relative to the plumbing.  The main header for the cold water supply goes right over my main operating table.   I was surprised with a lot of condensation dripping off the header onto some gear when Diane did some extended plant  and lawn watering in hot weather.

My ideal shack would be a small separate outbuilding with a little woodstove, or a big 4X1 rig help heat it in winter, and direct ground level access to move in the big stuff.  I think we all probably have thought about having this type of shack, which in our mind's eye probably looks like something out of the old QST Gil How's DX cartoons back in the day, with a pair of big feed through insulators bringing in the OWL feeder.

We hams have had real man-caves way before The Goose's TV show.

Just scanned the earlier posts of this thread (I clicked on the new button the first time) and was startled to see a post by the Derb.  This is apparently a pretty old topic I must have missed the first time around.

[WQ9E]

Some of my heavy stuff (Desk KW, BC-610) is in a separate room on the main floor but the rest is in the basement.  My house is located on a high piece of ground and the basement has high capacity floor drains so water isn't a problem.  I do keep a couple of dehumidifiers set up which keep the humidity in the mid 50% range.  Nothing highly valuable is directly underneath the plumbing lines.

With a basement location you don't have to worry about overloading the floor   I have a Gates BC-250GY along with a lot of other heavy boxes down there.  The basement has a walkout so it is very easy to get stuff in/out. 

[Mike/W8BAC]

The main header for the cold water supply goes right over my main operating table.   I was surprised with a lot of condensation dripping off the header onto some gear when Diane did some extended plant  and lawn watering in hot weather.

I had that same problem for the same reason Cris. My main water line passes over my work bench test gear riser. I was sick when I saw puddles of water on the riser and gear. I fixed the condensation problem with foam pipe insulation. The insulation looks good and the humid air can't get to the pipe. No more drips.

I use two dehumidifiers. I have never seen a leak in the basement walls or floor and the sump will discharge maybe once every 10 days. The relative humidity in the basement will hang at about 45% during the summer with no help. I want that lower for two reasons. I was told that spiders have trouble surviving with humidity lower than 30% so I find fewer webs and obviously I don't want anything to corrode.

Mike

[KE6DF]

I use two dehumidifiers. I have never seen a leak in the basement walls or floor and the sump will discharge maybe once every 10 days. The relative humidity in the basement will hang at about 45% during the summer with no help. I want that lower for two reasons. I was told that spiders have trouble surviving with humidity lower than 30% so I find fewer webs and obviously I don't want anything to corrode.

Mike

I guess it depends in the type of spider.

I grew up in Phoenix and Tucson and we had plenty of spiders -- including lots of black widows,  was below 30% most of the time.

One advantage of using a converted garage as a shack is, if you keep the garage door in place, you have a way to get big stuff in and out.

A disadvantage is that garages are not usually insulated -- at least here in California.

[K5UJ]

It's not enough to have the shack in the basement--it has to be an unfinished basement.   Dummy load springs a leak?   Deoxit didn't all hit its target?  no problem.

But the downside is ... basement flooding.  Never had one yet, but I get nervous when we have these 6 inches of rain in an hour type downpours.  My dehumidifier is set on 40%.  It drains right into the basement floor drain.  I'd love to have a big door with an excavated concrete ramp outside.  Right now, anything heavy has to be disassembled in the garage and carried in piece by piece or chassis by chassis.  Big iron etc. has to come down the stairs on a dolly with me and a helper.  One thing I'd like to do but will probably never get around to, is coating the floor with that epoxy paint.   For a 70 year old house the foundation is (I'm told by inspectors) in great shape. 

[W2DU]

During my teen-age years my shack was in my upstairs bedroom. During my career with RCA from 1949 to 1980 my shack was in the basement, dry, needing no dehumidifier. On retirement to Florida in 1980 I had a 24' x 30' cement block shack built on a slab behind the in-ground 14' x 30' pool. (A walk through the sliding glass doors from the kitchen and you're on the pool deck.)

Anyway, my present shack in Florida requires a dehumidifier, due to the high inherent humidity.

Aside from all that, I must say that in my 78 years of hamming I have never used an RF ground. Never found it necessary, because I never had a problem with uncontrollable RF in the shack. Of course I grounded the radio equipment together, but never more of a  connection to real ground other than through the AC power ground.

Werked fer me!

Walt

[Opcom]

I've been using a temporary RF ground on my slab. It is 20FT of old 50-ohm computer coax and the shield is the conductor for the purpose. That stuff was called "thin wire", used to be used with old DEC VAX stuff, and has a very good double shield. I just hook it to the tuner and lay it in a back and forth loop on the floor behind the racks. I suppose it couples to the rebar or whatever. All the equipment in use is connected in-line with either the same stuff or # 12 or 10 copper wire and connected with a shortest possible wire to whatever rack it is in.

Since using the temporary ground there has been no problem of hot controls or feedback but I am only running 500-800W peak power. Later I think I'll drill some 1" holes in the floor and pound in a couple of ground rods just to be sure.

Anyway with no basement I'm all for a ground level slab unless there is a flood issue. Tonnage on an upper floor does not seem like a good idea. For humidity, the a/c is set to 80 year round but I should be using a dehumidifier for the cool weather days.

[KD0HUX]

  LIVING ON A SMALL HILL HAS IT ADVANTAGES.  I HAVE A BETTER GROUND AND SHORTER GROUND RUNS