3889 Group causing Malicious Interference - response.

[steve_qix]

Recently, I have noticed heavy interference from a group of SSBers on 3889.  Well, this evening I was involved in a very nice, coast to coast QSO and they came on and started tearing up the QSO.... so I went up and asked them to move.  Expecting the worst, I started up a recording before going up... and recorded the entire interaction.  They refused to move, and suggested that we should either move or go on SSB.

After making the recording, I looked up a couple of the worst offender's calls and sent the following email:

To: NC4L and KC2MIB

Good Evening,

I am the Amateur Radio Operator who reported to you the severe and harmful interference which you (and others involved with your QSO on 3889kHz were causing to your QSO on 3886kHz.

My call is WA1QIX and I am located in Massachusetts.

As you know, we had an existing QSO in progress on or about 3886kHz (and had been in progress for several hours), when, some time after 11:00pm, you and your group started up on 3899kHz.  After a few minutes, I politely asked if you could move up a couple of kHz (at the time, the frequency above you was clear), and you refused, claiming "ownership" of the frequency.  My first inclination, when the interference you were causing commenced, was simply to move down a few kHz, however that was not possible due to the presence of another QSO in progress below our operating frequency.

You and your group have caused harmful interference on many other occasions, and you are well aware of the AM QSOs which take place a few kHz below your newly chosen place in the band.  Your dislike of AM is a matter of record (the recordings show this very nicely), and I believe this is a "modal" issue.  There were also comments made about New England.

I made a recording of the entire dialog of all stations involved, after I informed you of the harmful interference you were causing.  This includes your claims to the frequency, and your admitted knowledge you were just above an AM QSO, and if we didn't like the interference, we should move or switch to SSB.  I have other recordings as well, including recordings of the interference, showing how severe it is.

I would like to keep this cordial, however if the pattern of interference by you and your group continues, I will be left with no choice other than to send the recordings to the FCC enforcement division of the private radio bureau.

The FCC rules are quite clear on the matter of frequency usage. It is on a first-come, first-served, basis.  No amateur or group of amateurs owns any frequency or group of frequencies.  There is significant historical precedent with matters before the FCC to support this, and many warnings and subsequent enforcement actions (when the warnings were insufficient) have been issued.

In this case, we were clearly using the frequency prior to your group starting up, and when you were informed that you and your group were causing significant interference, you refused to relocate your QSO, even though doing so would have simply involved moving up a couple of kHz, where the frequency was clear.

As I stated earlier, there is no reason this cannot be kept on a gentlemanly and cordial footing.  However, knowingly causing harmful interference to another, existing QSO, comes under the umbrella of malicious interference.

Stephen Cloutier
WA1QIX

Apparently, Don has heard them as well:

I overheard a bunch on 3889 a week or so ago bragging about how they chase the AM'ers off 3885 every evening.  If we tuck and run every time, they will continue to squeeze AM operation into smaller and smaller segments of the band.

I do have recordings.  If you happen to be in QSO and this group comes on and tears up your QSO, start a recording and ask them to move - making sure you emphasize the harmful interference they are causing.

Yikes !!!

Regards,

Steve

[WA3VJB]

1. Did you copy Riley both the text and the recording?

2. Check frequency typo in third graf.

3. Phone numbers are listed for possible follow up today.

[WD8BIL]

Interestingly Steve, NC4L (Malcolm) features on his web page the FT102. One of the modification links he supplies is to the AMWINDOW.org mod for carrier overshoot.

 

[Tom W2ILA]

I have listened to these guys for a while.
They like AM.
They don't like AM'ers

Something to do with how AMers often act on the band in the evenings.

That was the tone of their conversations last week.

Tom
W2ILA

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Well Steve,

I think that's the best response to some QRMer that I have seen.  Here's hope that the Decent Reasonable approach will work.

Good Luck!

[WD8BIL]

I have listened to these guys for a while.
They like AM.
They don't like AM'ers

Usually comes from the mindset of how things should be. Another example of my way is the only way.

[k7yoo]

I was in there last night and heard the whole affair. You handled that well Steve. I generally ignore them, which is not very pro-active. I listen to them occasionally and it seems like their main topic of conversation is AM, so it appears we are an inspiration to them!!

If my whole motivation in life was to get together with like minded folks to P&M and harass others I would be one miserable puppy. I think we should have a moment of meditation for these poor folks.......while the filaments are warming up
Skip

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Good job detailing it all and preserving the evidence, Steve. Rather than just P&Ming or sending every little infraction to Riley, good, thorough documentation like this proves the point in a professional, courteous manner and clearly shows you are not playing the role of antagonist. A few good reports like this go a long way to dealing with the matter.

Skip's approach of ignoring the troublemakers is my preferred response as well. In most cases they get discouraged and go elsewhere looking for attention. Certainly not the case when referring to groups like this who follow the 'frequency ownership' principal and otherwise look to make life difficult for others.

BTW Skip, that little piece of driver iron is coming back your way. Figure you can put it back into inventory in case you or anyone else ends up in a fix for one. I'm very grateful to you for sending it along, and thankful that it ended up not being needed. You're a good man for helping others, and the offer still stands for Command/ARC-5 pieces - just send me a list of needs. If it's not already in use, it's yours.

[W5AMI]

This has gone on for a long time guys.  I have monitored them for quite some time, and they actually are coming from 3892.  They conspired some time ago to split up when they heard AM'ers, and part of them move to 3889.  The worst that instigate this mess are:

W8NB, K1RON, KE4MBM, N9ESE, KC8NBG and some old fart named Bernie, who I can't recall the callsign.

W8NB is the leader, and hero of all the others on 3892.  I have never dealt with anyone as nasty and unwilling to compromise as this guy is.

K1RON has no problems operating with his unkind words about AM'ers every night.  Kenny, W8NB used to be K8RXW.  W8NB(K8RXW) is now calling AM'ers "Sodomites", and Ron just calls us "Queers" in his bold stupidity.  I don't know what the answer is to this, as I've tried to get something done about it, only to be ignored, so far.  I think numbers will help, however.

If you ever decide to listen to this circus on 3892, only do it for about 15 minutes max, as they might make you go insane.  They are like Romper Room.  Bunch of old farts acting like 4 year olds...

They are one group I would really like to see get taken out by the FCC, and in a hurry.  It's possible some of their speech could be considered "hate speech", so maybe that's one way to do it.  I don't know.

I'll help with recordings any way I can.  Let's get a group effort going, and I'll try it again...

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Steve, if you're going to send your e-mail to the FCC, correct the error in the third paragraph:
"As you know, we had an existing QSO in progress on or about 3886kHz (and had been in progress for several hours), when, some time after 11:00pm, you and your group started up on 3899kHz. "

change 3899 to 3889

[steve_qix]

Steve, if you're going to send your e-mail to the FCC, correct the error in the third paragraph:
"As you know, we had an existing QSO in progress on or about 3886kHz (and had been in progress for several hours), when, some time after 11:00pm, you and your group started up on 3899kHz. "

change 3899 to 3889

Thanks ! Found another one, too (your should be our in the first paragraph).  Oh well !! It *was* 2:00 in the morning :-)

I think the best way to handle this bunch (and other malicious interferers) is to make recordings of what they say, and let them use their own words to hang themselves !

Thanks again and Regards,

Steve

[KA1ZGC]

That's funny, frequently it's my choice of phonetics for W8NB that stirs up that particular hornet's nest.

Just bear in mind that Riley has stacks of complaints from one-time altercations (or often baseless complaints about non-violations) waiting for him every day when he gets to work (I can't blame the guy for wanting to retire, can you?).

Since these guys have been at this for years, we should make sure to get as much tape from as many different dates/instances as we can in order to show that there's a pattern here, not just a one-shot deal.

The two criteria the FCC use to take anything beyond the warning phase are "willful" and "repeated" violation of regs, and "willful" doesn't mean you knew you were violating the regs, only that you knew you were doing what turned out to be a violation.

It's the "repeated" part that needs to be established in order to get this above the noise floor of routine complaints to the FCC.

Let's make sure we have multiple recordings of this crap before we go quietly and politely to the FCC. Since these guys make a hobby out of it, that shouldn't take too long or be too difficult. It will, however, get the FCC's attention much quicker than a one-shot complaint about a single instance.

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught
p.s. ...and spare me the "well what about Glenn Bastard" crap, I don't wanna hear it. Ask the FCC, not me.

[ka2zni]

I've got W8NB and his gang  on 2 seperate recordings this week alone, Dates, times, Frequency etc and so forth...

Let the tape roll................

Nice Job Steve .... Great way to handle the situation at hand.


Updates to follow on the frequent, flagrant rule breaking of the NoBrain club on 3.992 and others like the 3.886'rs in the morning about 8:00am is it?

Ahhh yes..... The Holliday spirit is in the air.


Happy hollidays everyone...

73's,
Kevin

[W1RKW]

I'm a lurker. And although I didn't catch this incident, I will be listening and catch future ones when time permits. One can count on it going to Riley. I've recorded some nice stuff over the last few years on other famous amateurs and sent the recordings to Riley who eventually have met the wrath.  I'll be lurking again.  The window will be respected.

[c. mac neill w8znx]

looked up W8NB
oh my its old Dr. Doozy K8RXW

man has been a yahoo
for over 20 years

mac

[kb3ouk]

The ones causing this mess should know by now where the am'ers are.Think of it this way, what would they do if we started interfering with them?They'd be mad at us. So if they don't want interference from us(like we would do that anyway,its easier just to tell them to move), they shouldn't give us any. I may be a newcomer, but I know that am'ers have their places they like to be and ssb'ers have where they want to be.So we do what we like to do. We run am they run ssb.they should really learn to have some respect for the people out there that still run am, I mean, its not like many of the people that are new to the hobby are going to start off on am, most will start and possibly stick with running ssb.I can see that this is going to cause a lot of headaches in the long run, not like it hasn't already.

shelby
kb3ouk

[W5AMI]

I have a suggestion for those who have, or plan to make recordings of these yahoo's...

I can post MP3's of these on my webspace in an indexed order as I get them. 

We need to centralize all the recordings, and send Riley a single notice from all of us, of the URL, where he can hear them at his leisure.  This will help keep him from being bombarded by emails with single recordings.  Plus he will not have to download each and every recording in email.

I've got plenty of space, so quantity or size is not an issue.

Send your MP3's to ars.w5ami@gmail.com with details such as time and date, who recorded it, etc.

Soon as we get a handful, we (our names and calls included) can compose a letter or email (both would be best) to Riley telling him where to find the collection. 

[Tom WA3KLR]

Since many of you are taping those clowns, I wonder, if it is not illegal, to transcribe and publish some of their verbal gems here on the World Wide Web for everyone in the world to read?

[k4kyv]

Since many of you are taping those clowns, I wonder, if it is not illegal, to transcribe and publish some of their verbal gems here on the World Wide Web for everyone in the world to read?

There is nothing illegal about recording, transcribing and publishing anything heard over the ham bands.  Amateur communications are completely unprotected, all in the public domain.  I think the same goes for CB.  Also for AM and FM broadcasts, as long as you don't get into copyright issues.

OTOH, two-way commercial communications are protected by the Secrecy of Communications provisions of the Communications Act.  No-one can stop you from listening, but you are not supposed to divulge the content.

Thom, the phonetics I have thought of for W8NB are "No Balls".  What are yours?

[KF1Z]

Since many of you are taping those clowns, I wonder, if it is not illegal, to transcribe and publish some of their verbal gems here on the World Wide Web for everyone in the world to read?

Are you a glutton for punishment?

Bad enough to hear it... who wants to transcribe it?


If it were to be published.... an .Mp3  would do...

[W4RON]

If it were to be published.... an .Mp3  would do...
[/quote]

Maybe someone should set up their video recorder in their shack
and record the interference and then put it on YouTube
so everyone could see it...

I'm hearing some good sounding AM on 3885 now.
Maybe I can join in.

73, Ron

[KA1ZGC]

Thom, the phonetics I have thought of for W8NB are "No Balls".  What are yours?

Exactly the same, Don. The few times I uttered that on the air drew enough return fire that I decided I'd rather enjoy my time on the air.

Tom: as far as posting some of this crap to publicly-frequented websites in order to point out these guys for what they are: DO IT, then send them the link.

It says on all our licenses: you are subject to being recorded by anyone at any time. This means you can be legally humiliated by something you said on the air under the auspices of your ham license. They would have zero grounds whatsoever to complain about having their on-air behavior displayed in public for all to see, just like none of the rest of us do.

That sort of exposure may go further than direct intervention from the FCC. Many of Kenny's followers are just out seeking acceptance, they don't want to be shown as lids to the entire hobby.

After all, we are supposed to be self-policing, right? Well, this is one of the best ways I can imagine to self-police this sort of misdirection in our ranks. No law/regulation ever stated what form that self-policing had to take. Thank you, Tom, for thinking of that.

--Thom
Keep Away One Zorched Ground Conductor

[WA3VJB]

I would be delighted to write a Piss and Moan with selected parts of the sound file and post it in the Talk & Opinions section of QRZ.com

[Ed-VA3ES]

I would be delighted to write a Piss and Moan with selected parts of the sound file and post it in the Talk & Opinions section of QRZ.com

If you do, Paul, send us the link so we can find it easily.

[Tom WA3KLR]

I haven't been listening to the clowns in question as I am on the Gentleman's band usually, so I don't know their voices (yet), they seem to identify only every 15 minutes or so, if they do.

I must have been thinking of accurately identifying each transmission in a transcription but perhaps just:
Ham1, Ham2, Ham3
or,
Clown1, Clown2, Clown3,
or,
A-H1, A-H2, A-H3 would cover the possible legal holes or complaints of misquotes.  I would hate to misquote an AM-hater.