The AM Forum

Recently, I have noticed heavy interference from a group of SSBers on 3889.  Well, this evening I was involved in a very nice, coast to coast QSO and they came on and started tearing up the QSO.... so I went up and asked them to move.  Expecting the worst, I started up a recording before going up... and recorded the entire interaction.  They refused to move, and suggested that we should either move or go on SSB.

After making the recording, I looked up a couple of the worst offender's calls and sent the following email:

Apparently, Don has heard them as well:

I do have recordings.  If you happen to be in QSO and this group comes on and tears up your QSO, start a recording and ask them to move - making sure you emphasize the harmful interference they are causing.

Yikes !!!

Regards,

Steve

1. Did you copy Riley both the text and the recording?

2. Check frequency typo in third graf.

3. Phone numbers are listed for possible follow up today.

Interestingly Steve, NC4L (Malcolm) features on his web page the FT102. One of the modification links he supplies is to the AMWINDOW.org mod for carrier overshoot.

 

I have listened to these guys for a while.
They like AM.
They don't like AM'ers

Something to do with how AMers often act on the band in the evenings.

That was the tone of their conversations last week.

Tom
W2ILA

Well Steve,

I think that's the best response to some QRMer that I have seen.  Here's hope that the Decent Reasonable approach will work.

Good Luck!

Usually comes from the mindset of how things should be. Another example of my way is the only way.

I was in there last night and heard the whole affair. You handled that well Steve. I generally ignore them, which is not very pro-active. I listen to them occasionally and it seems like their main topic of conversation is AM, so it appears we are an inspiration to them!!

If my whole motivation in life was to get together with like minded folks to P&M and harass others I would be one miserable puppy. I think we should have a moment of meditation for these poor folks.......while the filaments are warming up
Skip

Good job detailing it all and preserving the evidence, Steve. Rather than just P&Ming or sending every little infraction to Riley, good, thorough documentation like this proves the point in a professional, courteous manner and clearly shows you are not playing the role of antagonist. A few good reports like this go a long way to dealing with the matter.

Skip's approach of ignoring the troublemakers is my preferred response as well. In most cases they get discouraged and go elsewhere looking for attention. Certainly not the case when referring to groups like this who follow the 'frequency ownership' principal and otherwise look to make life difficult for others.

BTW Skip, that little piece of driver iron is coming back your way. Figure you can put it back into inventory in case you or anyone else ends up in a fix for one. I'm very grateful to you for sending it along, and thankful that it ended up not being needed. You're a good man for helping others, and the offer still stands for Command/ARC-5 pieces - just send me a list of needs. If it's not already in use, it's yours.

This has gone on for a long time guys.  I have monitored them for quite some time, and they actually are coming from 3892.  They conspired some time ago to split up when they heard AM'ers, and part of them move to 3889.  The worst that instigate this mess are:

W8NB, K1RON, KE4MBM, N9ESE, KC8NBG and some old fart named Bernie, who I can't recall the callsign.

W8NB is the leader, and hero of all the others on 3892.  I have never dealt with anyone as nasty and unwilling to compromise as this guy is.

K1RON has no problems operating with his unkind words about AM'ers every night.  Kenny, W8NB used to be K8RXW.  W8NB(K8RXW) is now calling AM'ers "Sodomites", and Ron just calls us "Queers" in his bold stupidity.  I don't know what the answer is to this, as I've tried to get something done about it, only to be ignored, so far.  I think numbers will help, however.

If you ever decide to listen to this circus on 3892, only do it for about 15 minutes max, as they might make you go insane.  They are like Romper Room.  Bunch of old farts acting like 4 year olds...

They are one group I would really like to see get taken out by the FCC, and in a hurry.  It's possible some of their speech could be considered "hate speech", so maybe that's one way to do it.  I don't know.

I'll help with recordings any way I can.  Let's get a group effort going, and I'll try it again...

Steve, if you're going to send your e-mail to the FCC, correct the error in the third paragraph:
"As you know, we had an existing QSO in progress on or about 3886kHz (and had been in progress for several hours), when, some time after 11:00pm, you and your group started up on 3899kHz. "

change 3899 to 3889

Thanks ! Found another one, too (your should be our in the first paragraph).  Oh well !! It *was* 2:00 in the morning :-)

I think the best way to handle this bunch (and other malicious interferers) is to make recordings of what they say, and let them use their own words to hang themselves !

Thanks again and Regards,

Steve

That's funny, frequently it's my choice of phonetics for W8NB that stirs up that particular hornet's nest.

Just bear in mind that Riley has stacks of complaints from one-time altercations (or often baseless complaints about non-violations) waiting for him every day when he gets to work (I can't blame the guy for wanting to retire, can you?).

Since these guys have been at this for years, we should make sure to get as much tape from as many different dates/instances as we can in order to show that there's a pattern here, not just a one-shot deal.

The two criteria the FCC use to take anything beyond the warning phase are "willful" and "repeated" violation of regs, and "willful" doesn't mean you knew you were violating the regs, only that you knew you were doing what turned out to be a violation.

It's the "repeated" part that needs to be established in order to get this above the noise floor of routine complaints to the FCC.

Let's make sure we have multiple recordings of this crap before we go quietly and politely to the FCC. Since these guys make a hobby out of it, that shouldn't take too long or be too difficult. It will, however, get the FCC's attention much quicker than a one-shot complaint about a single instance.

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught
p.s. ...and spare me the "well what about Glenn Bastard" crap, I don't wanna hear it. Ask the FCC, not me.

I've got W8NB and his gang  on 2 seperate recordings this week alone, Dates, times, Frequency etc and so forth...

Let the tape roll................

Nice Job Steve .... Great way to handle the situation at hand.


Updates to follow on the frequent, flagrant rule breaking of the NoBrain club on 3.992 and others like the 3.886'rs in the morning about 8:00am is it?

Ahhh yes..... The Holliday spirit is in the air.


Happy hollidays everyone...

73's,
Kevin

I'm a lurker. And although I didn't catch this incident, I will be listening and catch future ones when time permits. One can count on it going to Riley. I've recorded some nice stuff over the last few years on other famous amateurs and sent the recordings to Riley who eventually have met the wrath.  I'll be lurking again.  The window will be respected.

looked up W8NB
oh my its old Dr. Doozy K8RXW

man has been a yahoo
for over 20 years

mac

The ones causing this mess should know by now where the am'ers are.Think of it this way, what would they do if we started interfering with them?They'd be mad at us. So if they don't want interference from us(like we would do that anyway,its easier just to tell them to move), they shouldn't give us any. I may be a newcomer, but I know that am'ers have their places they like to be and ssb'ers have where they want to be.So we do what we like to do. We run am they run ssb.they should really learn to have some respect for the people out there that still run am, I mean, its not like many of the people that are new to the hobby are going to start off on am, most will start and possibly stick with running ssb.I can see that this is going to cause a lot of headaches in the long run, not like it hasn't already.

shelby
kb3ouk

I have a suggestion for those who have, or plan to make recordings of these yahoo's...

I can post MP3's of these on my webspace in an indexed order as I get them. 

We need to centralize all the recordings, and send Riley a single notice from all of us, of the URL, where he can hear them at his leisure.  This will help keep him from being bombarded by emails with single recordings.  Plus he will not have to download each and every recording in email.

I've got plenty of space, so quantity or size is not an issue.

Send your MP3's to ars.w5ami@gmail.com with details such as time and date, who recorded it, etc.

Soon as we get a handful, we (our names and calls included) can compose a letter or email (both would be best) to Riley telling him where to find the collection. 

Since many of you are taping those clowns, I wonder, if it is not illegal, to transcribe and publish some of their verbal gems here on the World Wide Web for everyone in the world to read?

There is nothing illegal about recording, transcribing and publishing anything heard over the ham bands.  Amateur communications are completely unprotected, all in the public domain.  I think the same goes for CB.  Also for AM and FM broadcasts, as long as you don't get into copyright issues.

OTOH, two-way commercial communications are protected by the Secrecy of Communications provisions of the Communications Act.  No-one can stop you from listening, but you are not supposed to divulge the content.

Thom, the phonetics I have thought of for W8NB are "No Balls".  What are yours?

Are you a glutton for punishment?

Bad enough to hear it... who wants to transcribe it?


If it were to be published.... an .Mp3  would do...

If it were to be published.... an .Mp3  would do...
[/quote]

Maybe someone should set up their video recorder in their shack
and record the interference and then put it on YouTube
so everyone could see it...

I'm hearing some good sounding AM on 3885 now.
Maybe I can join in. :)

73, Ron

Exactly the same, Don. The few times I uttered that on the air drew enough return fire that I decided I'd rather enjoy my time on the air.

Tom: as far as posting some of this crap to publicly-frequented websites in order to point out these guys for what they are: DO IT, then send them the link.

It says on all our licenses: you are subject to being recorded by anyone at any time. This means you can be legally humiliated by something you said on the air under the auspices of your ham license. They would have zero grounds whatsoever to complain about having their on-air behavior displayed in public for all to see, just like none of the rest of us do.

That sort of exposure may go further than direct intervention from the FCC. Many of Kenny's followers are just out seeking acceptance, they don't want to be shown as lids to the entire hobby.

After all, we are supposed to be self-policing, right? Well, this is one of the best ways I can imagine to self-police this sort of misdirection in our ranks. No law/regulation ever stated what form that self-policing had to take. Thank you, Tom, for thinking of that.

--Thom
Keep Away One Zorched Ground Conductor

I would be delighted to write a Piss and Moan with selected parts of the sound file and post it in the Talk & Opinions section of QRZ.com

If you do, Paul, send us the link so we can find it easily.

I haven't been listening to the clowns in question as I am on the Gentleman's band usually, so I don't know their voices (yet), they seem to identify only every 15 minutes or so, if they do.

I must have been thinking of accurately identifying each transmission in a transcription but perhaps just:
Ham1, Ham2, Ham3
or,
Clown1, Clown2, Clown3,
or,
A-H1, A-H2, A-H3 would cover the possible legal holes or complaints of misquotes.  I would hate to misquote an AM-hater.

That's WAY more work than it's worth.

Nope, we should release MP3 files of these guys and let the truth tell itself.

The truth is the greatest weapon in the world.

--Thom
Kilimanjaro Africa One Zulu Goat Cheese

To get the ball rolling, here is a transcription from just a short session of listening last night:

Heard on 3892 kHz Friday night, December 07, 2007
9:10 p.m. Eastern time.  Transcribed to the best of my ability, it readily documents one  case of willful interference to an on-going AM QSO on 3885 kHz.:

“Man you broke my S-meter it ain’t even come back up to zero yet….
…I will say hello to Aar, I will say hello to Aaron though.”

“Hello hello I heard you in there earlier, but the band was so long I couldn’t make out what you’s sayin’.”

“What you on Aron?”

“I’m on my 757.”

“Ah, o.k.”

“Why what’s up?  Tell me, tell me.”

“Oh I just, I just curious.  Is that thing got a pretty good AM receiver in it?”

“Yeah, yeah.  Ah it don’t do too bad, I’ve listened to them guys up there talk AM on it, ah seems like all the filters work.  I’ve never tried talkin’ on it.”

(18 seconds, nothing)

“You’re gettin’ louder up here Zipper.”

“Ah the band’s changin’ around.  My noise totally went away an’ all. I hear you are about an S9.” 

“Oh you’re 15 over.”

“Why, what you workin’ on, an AM transmitter or somethin’ Stan?”

“Heh, bite your tongue boy.”

“Well you were askin’ me (laughter).  I’ve got a good AM receiver.”

“Yeah go down in the middle of the AM winda’.”

“Well, I don’t, I don’t actually, to be honest with you, I don’t even know what that window is, ‘cause according to this we’re in, you know according to them we’re in their winda’.  Give me a frequency, I’ll go to it.”

“Ah, 3885.”

“Alrighty I’m gone. KC8C(or T?)YV clear, QSY.”

“Where you goin?”

“I guess 3885 real quick.”

“Where’s he goin’?”

“3885.”

“Oh.  K1RON.”

(I tune my receiver to 3885 kHz LSB.  I hear a carrier and tune for a very low pitch beat note for documentation purposes.)

Now on 3885 kHz:

“Breaker AM transmitter there.”

(Weak AM transmission on, unreadable here.)

“I can just barely hear you.”

AM 2 “Frequency’s in use.”  (AM transmission.)

LSB “The band is broke.”

AM2  “The frequency’s in use, the frequency’s in use.” 

LSB “Hello to ya.”

(Weak AM transmission on.  It appears that the LSB incursion has stopped.  I tune back to 3892 kHz LSB.)

On 3892 kHz LSB:

“…..let me come back in for a landin’.”

“Is this, ah, a station in French Creek West Virginia?”

(laughter)

“somewhere around there I’m a hoverin’ right now."

“Ah roger I’m hearin’ ya.”

“KN8, er no, KC8 ah, needs a big garage, yeah, needs a billy goat, yeah.”

(9:14:35 p.m.)

“Ah yes.”

“Ah, Stan did you make it back here?"

"Yeah did you, did you hear me down there?"

“Yeah by the time I got there I’s sayin’, well I made a hello and they kept yellin’ at me, “frequency’s in use”!”

“What a bunch of weirdos.  That wouldn’t a, that wouldn’t a stopped ‘em up here.”
 
“Yeah that never bothered them up here did it Aaron (or Eric)?”

“Well the, all the intentional AM interference’ll…it’ll ketch up to them.   Anyway, um, enough said about that.” 

“Yeah I wanted to get this 55 model sideband transmitter out again.”

“Oh well it’s workin’.  It sounds pinched.    Sounds like you’re on the 1.5 filter or somethin’, you know.”

(Unintelligible primordial cry).

(Unintelligible remark).

(Laughter.)

“Ah, that’s o.k.” 

“For when it was created, it don’t do bad.  I’ve had enough fun with it tonight, it’s all the electrons have, have went to the appropriate places and appropriate times, so I’ll unhook it and hook up a real radio.  Anyway, you guys carry on, I’ll be back.   KC8NBG.”

“Roger.”

“Hey Bernie?”

“Yeah.  Did they shut T(D?)SW down?”

(End of transcribing.)
- - - - - - - -

If you didn't make a recording of that, you have a damn good memory.  I wasn't in the QSO, but was monitoring the whole incident.  That's exactly what I heard, practically verbatim.

I taped it Don.  I wish I had a memory like that!

I didn't have to listen for long.  As much as they complain about AM, if they didn't have AM to talk about, what would they do?  Just a bunch of old ladies I guess.

It's always been a good decision to have taken that touch-typing course in high school.

From QRZ.com QSL information listing:

KC8NBG       Lookups: 728

Stanley R Young
928 LEFT FREEMANS CREEK ROAD
CAMDEN WV 26338
USA
QSL:   am8sux aka hemorhoid

There was no KC8CYV in the database. 

From QRZ.com QSL information listing:

KC8TYV       Lookups: 43

William D Martin
349 Crown Hill Rd
Leon WV 25123
USA

Yea Mack and where's the guy at that's supposed to be watching and heading this type of activity off...prolly watching Animal House too.

KC8CYV
CUSHING, JOHN W
Technician
expired on        03/25/2006
cancelled on     12/08/1997



not that it matters....

Paul,

You're talking about a Piss and Moan thread, exposing these idiots on the 'Zed.  Might as well, after all Charles, N5PVT does that to the Winlink users who have a chronic habit of  trashing in progress HF Packet QSOs.  He calls them "Winlids on Parade" threads, and even posts the spectrum display shots of their Pactor III signals, wiping out Packet QSOs.  Here's an example of one of his "Winlids on Parade" threads:

http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=1dc1f8b660aef533a5eff4c41ad4f486;act=ST;f=7;t=175903

73,
Ellen - AF9J

P.S. - BTW after reading Tom's transcription of their junvenile behavior, I believe that W8NB (who frankly doesn't deserve his OT, W 1x2 call) and company deserve to be ridiculed.

I watch these kinds of clowns on the spectrum display a lot. They park themselves just above the positive modulation around 3 KHz away. Then they runl LSB. Be careful this could be a reason to limit our BW at the FCC. I would not P&M too much. Just ignor them and turn up the strapper.
Many of there guys are not that wide compared to an AM signal. The slop buckeks could argue they don't copy USB while in LSB mode.

Frank said:
Hi Frank. This may be the case when there is indeed un-intentional QRM going on. But when there is recorded evidence that they are out to intentionally interfere with an ongoing QSO, then it is time to take action. We shouldn't be door mats for anyone.

Okay guys.  We need to do something instead of just talking about it.  On page one of this thread, I made an offer to store MP3's of these recordings on my web space, which by the way, I don't really use for anything else, and I have plenty of space to archive these recordings in ONE place for Hollingsworth to listen to each one at his leisure by simply clicking on the link to the MP3.  I have yet to get a single recording from anyone...

If we want to at least attempt to stop these nuts, we need to make it as convenient for Riley as possible.

My suggestion was to wait until we had a good handful of recordings, online, on the web, then inform Riley where to find them.  I think this should coincide with a letter, and/or email to Riley.  Paul/VJB would be my first choice in composing a document to Hollingsworth, explaining the problem, and comments made on the recordings.  Sorry Paul. ;)

The document should state names and calls of all who are in favor of this report.  Numbers mean a lot to Riley on these sort of things.  I know, as he has requested similar petitions from me and others in the past.  However with good recordings of their schnanigans, the proof is in the pudding, and names nor calls will really be needed, however I think we should step up to the plate and volunteer to state our calls, etc, as I think it will mean a lot more to the enforcement bureau if we do.

As far as them (the nuts) finding the recordings, so be it!  That alone might encourage them to stop their childish behavior.  It is not illegal to post recordings from ham radio QSO's on the web, as those transmissions ARE in the public domain.

Thanks for the draft.
Let's move it ahead and I'm on board.

Tell us the best way to get MP3 files to you.

Sometimes an email attachment will get nailed by filters.
Is there an FTP protocol you can share, non-published, and we can just upload the things?

Or, although it's a bit more work, perhaps a "gallery" style of HTML page would be best, especially if we expect to publicize a rogue's gallery, with important comments as to operating conditions, circumstances, and efforts to resolve.

But maybe lets start with just an index page that Riley can go to, and he can match the narrative in an email with the sound files that illustrate. We can publicise the rogue's gallery later, especially after a few Riley Letters have gone out.

Thanks Paul,

I think gmail will take a 20 meg file max.  If it's an MP3, that would be a LONG play.  If this doesn't work, I'll set up an anonymous FTP account that will put them right where they need to go.  Actually, that would probably be the thing to do, so until further notice (soon), let me get that setup.

For those that do not have an FTP client, send them to - ars.w5ami@gmail.com

Thanks Paul.  Soon as I have the directory on the server setup, I will let everyone on here know how to access it.

Thanks Brian,

That's a great idea.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

Okay, I have setup an FTP account with unlimited space (well within some gigs).

Anyone that is interested in contributing recordings in MP3 format of these guys on 3892, please contact either Paul/VJB, or me with an email or PM on this forum.  Either of us can give you the FTP address, username and password.

Public access to the recordings is set to: http://w5ami.net/3892/  which will allow anyone, including the culprits (if they find it) to listen to what we are getting from them.

If you upload your recordings directly via FTP, they will show up right away on that URL.

Let's get this rolling guys.  BTW, if there are any other misfits on other freqs. causing deliberate interference to AM'ers, I can set up a separate FTP account to keep these things separate for Hollingsworth.  Just let me know.

Brian / wa5am

You're welcome Ellen.  I just hope it's not in vain for any of us...  Sure can't hurt!

73
Brian / wa5am

Brian,

If you run low on space, let me know. I've got several gig over on audiophools.net that I'm not using, and would gladly use it to host these recordings.

Which reminds me, I gotta pay my hosting bill soon. Glad I remembered that, that would be embarrasing!  :-\

--Thom
Killer Audio One Zero Gravity Copper

Will do Thom.  If we can get some good incriminating recordings, it shouldn't take much after that to put 'em where they need to go.

I have never been involved in squabbles with the sidebanders on 3892 or 3889, nor have I listened to them before.  I got somewhat involved here the other day out of curiosity I guess, due to the complaining I have been reading on this forum.

Right away when I tuned to 3892 Friday night, the topic was the AM’ers.  I think that one guy in particular has the AMers as his primary subject.  (Some of the others are getting tired of it being brought up so much, it seems, as I have done a little more listening Saturday 12/8.)  It only took a few minutes of listening for me to hear a deliberate foray onto 3885 to cause deliberate interference to an AM QSO.  I doubt that the AM’ers ever noticed any interference as they were weak and probably were far away geographically.  (See my transcription posted on page 2.)

I look upon this act as one guy from 3892 showing off to others from the same group who would also be listening to 3885 for the incursion.  This is directly akin to the antics of a group of teenagers in high school pulling Saturday night stunts, usually aided by the influence of some alcohol.

After a day of monitoring I have these impressions:
1.   Some of these people have the idea that since they have been interfered with by AM transmissions that it is then permitted to interfere with ANY AM QSO at any time forward.
2.  At this point, I presume that AMers have indeed at times been at fault causing interference to the 3892 QSOs.  I also believe, and have witnessed, that people from 3892 have caused interference to 3885 QSOs.  Some of this interference was unintentional.   And some of it is deliberate, on both sides.
3.  I also believe that there are 3rd party radio miscreants out there who are trolling for these established conflict regions and swoop in and do interference leaving parties 1 and 2 pointing at each other.
4.  The fellows on 3892 are now well aware of ‘blogs talking about them.  The feeling I get is that they are not happy with how things have evolved on this situation.  They have been talking to each other on the phone about this.  As Frank WA1GFZ points out, the long-term results of such squabbles may not be good.
5.  It sounds to me like some of the fellows are long-time hams and have a good amount of experience with the past radio gear as we do.  Some of the presently issued call letters may be misleading as to the depth of operating and hands-on experience. 
6.   To operate LSB at 3 to 7 kHz ABOVE the national AM calling frequency is a fundamentally risky situation.  Again from my listening of just one day, some of the operators are apparently not aware of the ARRL band plan 3885 kHz AM channel.

My opinion:
If you were interfered with, it is up to your responsibility to file a report to the proper authorities or shut up about it.  Whining to others should not be accepted here any more.

We now have 400 kHz of phone space on 80 and 75 meters.  This whole situation seems silly to me.  One New Year’s initiative is for all GENERALs to upgrade to EXTRA.  This is so easy now as it only involves studying and taking a 50 question multiple-choice test.

The whole thing always comes down to being a considerate operator.  You can’t blame Glen Bash, Glen Baxter, the ARRL, the VECs, multiple-choice tests, no-code, FCC, or George Bush for this. It is YOUR personal ethics as the factor.   Considerate operation can’t be legislated and mode sub-bands will only waste spectrum. 

Yes the technology is “progressing”.  There are more phone and teleprinter modes every week it seems.  Everyone needs to learn to recognize other modes and what spectrum the transmissions and receivers require.  And just because we are on AM and there are no occupied bandwidth rules yet, that doesn’t mean that it is impossible for any AM signals out there to be too wide!  As strange as it may sound, there are some AM transmitter systems on the air with technical faults.

As Brian WA5AM says, it is time to do sometime about this situation.  Steve WA1QIX’s letter to some of the fellows on 3892 is having a positive effect, I believe.  Personally, I have not been involved in the problems, so at this point I am bowing out.  Good luck.

Good post Tom.

Especially poignant is noting how those who plan to file complaints had better not be guilty of the same thing, be they paybacks, retaliation, or the initial volley.

Indeed, be careful.  One can also be sued.  I was years ago, over some local miscreant's CB-radio tomfoolery. :-\

Mack, you are certainly correct.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander  ;D

The gentlemanly thing to do is move when politely asked - either side.  However anonymous "you're splattering, shut that damn thing off" complaints are of course to be ignored.  We AMers put up with a hell of a lot more SSB junk in our passbands than they will ever hear a few sibilance artifacts in theirs.

Another great annoyance is those SSTVers just above 3700.  They do NOT like any incursions anywhere close to their chosen channel - be it in use or not.

We also need to take advantage of the fact that we have two sidebands (well except for some of the more modern transceivers with carrier and one sideband).  For my main AM station with the Johnson Desk and a Viking 500 I use the KP-81 as the standard receiver but I also keep something with selectable sidebands that can be patched in immediately; currently the standby receiver is an SX-100 since the SX-115 just got hitched to a recently acquired HT-32B.  Receivers like the Halli SX-100,101,115,117 and the Hammarlund HQ-170/180 do a great job of letting you choose the sideband with the least interference and generally I have little problems with the SSB noise from just above or below the "window" and it also can be helpful in avoiding other AM signals in the window.   In the "canoe anchor" division the Drake R-4 line receivers do a similarly excellent job of interference mitigation.

In the projects waiting to happen, I have a bunch of the 85 Kc transformers that I plan to make an external selectable sideband strip and detector which will work with any of my 455 Kc IF receivers.  I am also intrigued by a short article I ran across in an RSGB publication which describes a Rhode and Schwarz variable bandwidth strip which uses 2 narrow range variable oscillators, 4 mixers, two lowpass filters at 30 Kcs, and a couple of bandpass filters at 300 Kcs to form a variable bandwidth filter from around 500 cycles out to 16 Kcs with very steep and consistent skirts across its range.  Basically it uses the first lowpass filter to shape one side of the passband then inverts the signal and shapes the opposite side of the passband with the remaining lowpass filter thus the skirts are basically determined by the quality of the lowpass filters.  I know that this sort of thing is typically accomplished today with DSP but the R&S approach does look interesting.

Rodger WQ9E


Rodger WQ9E

Yes this is a recording of the QSO we had today . We got on around 3 in the afternoon and it was clear channel and then the SStv guys fired up. They were zero beat with us. I guess that was a coincidence?

What you hear is me just hitting the SSB button and they are directly on frequency.

http://amfone.net/audio/3715.mp3 (http://amfone.net/audio/3715.mp3)

G

On a lighter note... Was a pleasure to meet up with you today on 3.874 Paul, Great QSO and great too hear so many others come in afterwards.

'73's....
Kevin

Yeah Kevin, wasn't it funny to realize WHY our calls were familiar to one another ?

John FXE and Glenn GPE were both doing well in there too.

Thanks for sticking in there with that prolonged Seek-You

I'm sorry you guys couldn't hear ME better....
Oh well...maybe next time!
Paul, you were quite readable here in Verminmont...John FXE was the only one stronger..

The following pdf is the ARRL's "The Considerate Operator's Frequency Guide".  It lists the AM calling frequencies of 3885, 7290, 14.286, 29.0 - 29.2 MHz.  I wish all sidebanders were aware of it.

You should email that to K1RON with a note saying it is a CONSIDERATE operator's guide.  He might get the hint.

The 3892/3889 crowd could also be informed of the new IARU Region 2 Voluntary Bandplan, voted for by the ARRL, that goes into effect January 1, which designates wideband AM operations at 3875 - 3900 KHz.

It would be interesting to hear their comments back on that!

One of them talked about it last night.  They are too ignorant to understand what it means.  One guy basically told the others that after Jan. 1, anyone with an old AM rig that goes over 6 kcs is going to be illegal, and their rigs will have to be trashed.  Not only do these guys lie to outsiders, they will lie to their own followers to keep the fire burning.  Nothing new...  Just a bunch of brain dead idiots that have nothing else to do but gripe about AM'ers 90% of the time.

Here is the MP3 if anyone care to listen to this yahoo:
http://w5ami.net/3.892000MHz_12-10-2007_4_53PMCST.mp3

LOL. Are they lieing about it or are they so stupid they actually believe it's true? I'd bet on the second. ;D

That's exactly what I was thinking, Steve.  ;D

Brian, you give them far too much credit. You assume they know enough about it to be able to lie. ;)

'Course, ol' Fireball would set 'em straight iffn he was there.... 

Who knows man.  I can't think like they do, however I do think "stupid" is the word, and you just can't fix stupid.

Well, that's the thing Brian. You're smart and a good guy as well, so you think like one. Hard to readjust to that kind of thinking, probably not possible once you know better.


Ain't that the truth!!  ;D

   "  others that after Jan. 1, anyone with an old AM rig that goes over 6 kcs is going to be illegal, and their rigs will have to be trashed. "

Well, it seems to me that some of us try to break into their QSO ( legally, of course) and talk with them... on 1 Jan 08  .... ..        klc

That's one of the major concerns we should have with the IARU bandplan, notwithstanding the spin which League staff is trying to put on the issue.  Even if they are correct in their assertion (in which case they have done at best a piss poor job of communicating this to the greater amateur community), there will be many, many amateurs, even well-meaning hams who are not part this or similar groups of retards, who will fail to understand what the IARU bandplan is, and who will INSIST that it is illegal to operate AM outside the suggested "windows" or beyond the stated bandwidths.  In every "non-compliant" QSO we can expect to hear numerous breakers and anonymous SSB comments dropped on top of our carriers, "informing" us that we are operating illegally, in violation of the "new rules".  Or else, we are "poor operators" or "lids" because we are disregarding the band plan. As we continue to legally operate our preferred modes on frequencies of our choice, there will inevitably be a certain element who will become extremely pissed off, and a substantial momentum will begin gathering to petition the FCC to adopt the IARU restrictions (at least the ones regarding AM and ESSB) into Part 97.

That's "Fahrbowl" to you, sonny!

I heard the same thing Mack.  That is the South Eastern AMI net, and I have to agree that it's not good operating practice even if they are a weekly net.  Their NCS should indeed contact those already on frequency and ask if they would not mind moving elsewhere as opposed to just starting it up on top of another QSO like that.  There is no net that has precedence over an ongoing QSO on the same freq., except during emergency's that have officially been given a legal right to the freq. by a much higher authority.

Being the NCS, Andy should request to all in the net who check in early that they should listen carefully for an existing QSO, and attempt to contact someone in that QSO before firing up on top of them.

Another good reason to move down to the basement....

Tom, I think that is covered under our Consttution as freedom of the press.
So long as you don't slander or lie you are free to publish what you want to.
I think that this is a good opportunity for a good author to do an OPED in QST.
Paul did just that in ER lets see if one can be done in QST or CQ. Were is Wayne Green when you need him  LOL

Bob W1PE

Well Well Well, I hear all of this fall out from people that KC8 NBG is threatening bodily harm to me  Hmmmmmmm. Sounds like the usual idiocracy of the one brain cell type operators  that lately have been inhabiting the spectrum from 3895--3885. I had a small battle with them last night. I got on or about 3886 or 7. I was a very clear frequency. After being in QSO for an hour or so the clowns started up on 3889 or so. I noticed that they were only about 2Khz removed from my carrier frequency. As far as I am concerned they are in my bandpass and on MY frequency, So I did the obvious. I zero beated them and continued to work Dave W9AD who has sync detection capabilities . He had no problem hearing me. The band was in excellent condition. Warren W1GUD from Floriduhh was doing quite well considering his power and antenna situation. The slopbucketeers remained on for a while but soon gave up . Even though  an AM signal is disadvantaged when going head to head with a fairly powerful slop bucket station I know my antenna system is doing the work. I guess I neutralized  the attempts of those that  tried to trash my QSO. It would behoove us all to do what can be done with our antennas to get better low angle performance as well as perhaps some gain and directivity. Run all the power you can run. Keep the modulation levels up, and work break in on slightly different frequencies . These operating techniques go a long way to holding on to the frequency under fire. Kenny ,W8NB has been battling the AMers as long as I can remember.40 years. The frequency of operation then was 3895. They were known as "The Alligators" The picked on everybody that dared to fire up on 3895 when not in use. In the late 60s into the early 70s there was a slopbucket group from the New England area that also operated on 3895. Some of the members of that group also operated AM and hung out with us on 3885. They would regale us with tales of "Alligator Battles" . The Alligators would try to drive off the New England slopbucket group from 3895 all of the time.The New England group would respond by running power and good antennas . The usual battles kept escalating. Of course the FeeCCee got many complaints.  Sometime in the late 80s and early 90s the FeeCCee clamped down on them. The group dispersed. Some of them landed on 3894.5.  . It seems that through time there has always been some group of miscreant slopbucketeers that want to rid the area of AM activity. The mess comes and goes.It is unfortunate that it comes to this . One has to stand up . I have weathered many storms. I am not one to roll over
Tim WA1HnyLR

Speak softly, and carry a big strap.   klc

... a few weeks ago, i came across a qso, on 40m, ssb...same situation, but this war was between ssb ops, and guys sending sstv...i think it was around 7172, or so....same stuff, deliberate qwarm, swearing, cw, i got a real kick outta it...sk...

The digi modes are hideous...Funny part is the psychology of people that hide behind microphones. If you met these people in person would they have the nerve to say or act as rude as they do when hiding behind a microphone. Its the nature of the beast.

Brent W1IA

Ya know Tina, ya never know.

When I was in Rottenchester one of those bigmouths came walking by my table. I caught his eye and he looked at my call letter badge and made a hasty retreat. Later, at the beer tent, he was standing 50 yrds away with a friend pointing in our direction.
I stepped outta the crowd and stood there staring at him with the best INR sh$teating grin I could muster. Again, they beat a fast retreat.

But ya just don't know nowadays who might just pull a piece on ya. It has happenend.

Did you roll tape TimTron?
Even a small battle documents a war.
Shoot me a hissette, open reel, DAT, cart, MP3, CD, DVD, VHS.
Good in the callbook.

M.O.U.S.E. 
 ;D

What ????? NO BETA....... NO 8 TRACK ???

Gotta have those Paul.  We can't do it without them!

Timmy, as interfered with.

QRM (http://www.w5ami.net/3892/Tim-QRM'121207%603887.MP3)

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