So, where are the AM Tall Ships?

[k4kyv]

Just remember ego (ie. ultra QRO) can't change physics. What I mean to say is you have to quadruple RF power to gain one lousy S-unit. Thus the signal difference on the other end of 150 watts carrier versus 1KW is less than two S-units in difference.

But what is significant at the other end is signal/noise ratio, not the S-meter reading.  Sure, if your signal is already many dB above the background QRM and noise crud, quadrupling power isn't going to make a significant difference, and may not even be noticeable except by a slight bump in the S-meter indication. But if, due to your distance away or due to lousy band conditions, your signal is right in there at the noise level, riding at the ragged edge of readability, quadrupling power can make the difference between a comfortably readable signal and a pissweaker nobody wants to bother with trying to copy. Under marginal conditions, even 3 dB or less  can make the difference between readability and non-readability.

Sometimes 10-25 watts can strap under ideal band conditions, and yet a KW-plus may be marginal when propagation is poor. Remember, the primary definition of the legal limit under the FCC rules is minimum power necessary to maintain the desired level of communication - and under some conditions that could be a fraction of a watt.

[K1JJ]

For most budding AM'ers, making the most of what you got is about the best we can do. And yes, that always involves learning how to do it. Some of us will never have the real estate to put the antennas the tall ships have, nor be able to run at the legal limit, or let's face it, above it,  because of the surrounding neighbors and their cheap poorly shielded consumer electronics.

Sure, we all do what we can with what we have available - and we all have limitations. This is how it is in real life.

But there's no denying that ham radio, for the most part, is very competitive. The contesters spend thousands of dollars and thousands of hours. The DXers are legendary. Every sub group has it.

Even AMers - many AMers have spent a lifetime building big stations, moving BC transmitters, putting up towers - even getting divorced in the process.

Ham radio, like everything, is a bell curve. We have every possible combination of skills, proficiency and equipment levels. It will always be this way.

The thread and subject seemed to be going to "What is a tall ship?"  Like it or not, we will always have a group in any hobby that has the means, desire and money to grow their hobby.  It doesn't mean guys who don't are regarded any less. In fact many of us are in hobbies where we just don't care enuff to go all the way. Should we beat up the ones who do - or don't?  No.

If radio was not competitive, then we would all be on cell phones right now talking to one another.  There would be no competition at all.. just what we say would mean everything. But we choose to build stations and exchange ideas and some even compete in their own ways.

We could just join hands and sing Kum Ba Yah instead....

Don't mind me - the BB has been so quiet lately I'm looking to create some controversy to liven things up....  caw mawn...

T

[KF1Z]

Otherwise, high power is quite achievable - at least on 40, 75 and 160 meters on a small budget.  

What do you define as high power?  I define it for ham AM as the old legal limit, i.e. around 600 w. or more output.  300 to 600 medium, 100 to 200 somewhat low, < 100 low, < 50 qrp.

My spectrum analyzer showed the same power level at legal limit with the "old" limit measurement (I.E. 1KW DC Input to the final) back then, as it does with the "new" limit measurement (1500 Watts PEP) today.  The analyzer shows, quite clearly, a 750 watt carrier that never varies and  2  375 (PEAK) watt sidebands when the transmitter is modulated 100%.  All of that adds up to 1500 watts (peak).

High power for amateurs is this power level.  It is legal limit.

About half of this power level is "medium" power, and really, anything under 100 watts is pretty low.  Of course there's the so-called PW power level of 10 watts and under, and flea power might be in the milliwatts range, etc, etc.

But what would that be in "bird watts"?

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Don't mind me - the BB has been so quiet lately I'm looking to create some controversy to liven things up....  caw mawn...

T

Being quiet isn't a bad thing. It could mean that more members are spending their free time playing radio rather then banging the keyboard.

FYI: Just saw Tim's call pop up on the 15 meter DX map cluster.

[KB2WIG]

[/quote]

But what would that be in "bird watts"?

[/quote]

Please, don't go any farther; everybody knows that the bird is the word.

klc

[kb3ouk]

FYI: Just saw Tim's call pop up on the 15 meter DX map cluster.

Working EI9JF. 15 appears to be open to Europe.

Anyway, I'm hoping in the next 5 to 10 years to have a bigger transmitter either in progress or already built and on the air, along with a better antenna than what I got. I'm thinking something along the lines of a class D/E transmitter running close to a kilowatt input and an inverted L.

[K5IIA]

To me a tall ship is someone that when they are on the air you want to and enjoy listening to them. no matter if you are in the qso or not.

when i got my general in 2010 i had a list of tall ship stations i wanted to work. and they were not the 10 or 15 strongest signals i had heard that is for sure.

[kb3ouk]

Actually, if you based the definition of a tall ship on how strong they are to everyone else, then trying to define that physically (on the basis of power output/signal strength) would change depending on what band they were on. Someone running 100 watts and a dipole on 75 might not be a tall ship, but put that same setup on 10 meters when the band is hot and you sure could be a tall ship on there.

[W3GMS]

Some people are just competitive in nature regardless if they are a Ham or not.  If you are competitive person then that likely surface in your Ham Radio en-devours.  

Personally for me, I enjoy building and restoring large transmitters mainly to get them working and have fun with them, but not in an attempt to be the strongest signal on the band.  If I felt I was in competition with everyone and had to try and have the biggest and best signal with the best subjects to discuss on the air I would not be in this hobby.  I look for people that are enjoyable to chat with while on the air.  Sometimes they may be a "tall ship" whatever that is, but often times they are not.    

The hobby has room for everyone and you pick and choose what floats your boat but I personally don't agree with some of the generalizations given.  

Joe, W3GMS

[W2VW]

A tall ship is someone who can hold a frequency on the low bands.

[K1JJ]

The hobby has room for everyone and you pick and choose what floats your boat but I personally don't agree with some of the generalizations given.  

Joe, W3GMS

Well, I've got some more generalizations for ya Joe....

One of the most important things (most) hams wants to know is, "How am I coming in?"   How does my signal compare to the rest of the world?  (We love those S meter reports)  

As we get older we lose this competitive desire and really don't care as much. The line, "It doesn't matter how loud I am, as long as you can hear me"  really becomes true as we get elderly.

Once given (ANY) a report, some will then answer, "Well, I'm only running 100 watts and a G5RV"  Answer they want to hear: "Well, you sure are doing a GOOD JOB with that, OM! Congrats! "

More:  

Most Amer's (as well as ssb operators) are keenly interested in how they sound. We thrive on hearing ourselves on recordings and will usually think we sound lousy. But that is human nature.  A report of sounding like crap will ruin someone's day and might even cause us to tear down the audio gear looking for the problem. It's unusual for someone to be satisfied with 300-3000 hz audio, but there certainly are some who are.

And more:
Pileups occur on AM during hot nights, just as well as in other parts of the band. Most of us want to see how well our stations compare to others, when cutting thru the crud.

More later...  

T

[W3GMS]

As we get older we lose this competitive desire and really don't care as much.

Is that happening to you Tom   

Joe, W3GMS

[W7TFO]

Cheezz... sometimes you take all the fun out of it with a splash of cold water, Pete.

T

+1

73DG

[WS4B]

You CAN sound quite respectable WITH a ricebox and a big amp, provided you have a proper audio front end and measuring equipment to make sure you have the best quality signal possible, in both in power and cleanliness.

That is exactly what I have been doing for the past two years, and it works. The FT-102 has three 6146s that produce extremely low IMD. That goes into an AL-82 with a total carrier output between 100 and 150 watts depending on the band. I use an RE-20 microphone with outboard audio rack.

Again it works.......

[K1JJ]

"As we get older we lose this competitive desire and really don't care as much. "

Is that happening to you Tom    
Joe, W3GMS

heheheh....  good one, Joe.

Well, to tell ya the truth, it was actually happening to me.  I was recently diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and my health was starting to go south. I stopped breathing for up to 90 seconds during sleep. Oxygen % was low, etc.

I bought the best CPAP machine I could afford and within a few weeks I feel like an athlete again. Absolutely amazing difference. Climbing towers again, etc.

I hate to admit it, but this is probably the reason I'm on here raising hell, I'm feeling so cocky.  So Lord help me when I fire up the rig soon.  I'll probably be looking for a hi hi FB signal report, OM.  And tell me I'm doing a good job, OK?  


T

[K5UJ]

My spectrum analyzer showed the same power level at legal limit with the "old" limit measurement (I.E. 1KW DC Input to the final) back then, as it does with the "new" limit measurement (1500 Watts PEP) today.  The analyzer shows, quite clearly, a 750 watt carrier that never varies and  2  375 (PEAK) watt sidebands when the transmitter is modulated 100%.  All of that adds up to 1500 watts (peak).

High power for amateurs is this power level.  It is legal limit.

If you want to let FCC arbitrarily define high power for yourself be my guest.  I make no claim whatsoever to be any kind of power measuring or calculating expert and have no interest in the PEP numbers but I congratulate you on getting your FET rig up to 750 watts.    

You know it's High Power when:

You get a hot flash and you are not a female

You feel the temperature in the shack rise....and your shack is on the receiving end

You hear the other guy FB but your rx is on standby

73

Rob

[The Slab Bacon]

Sounds more like a cult Tom; it's great we have other bands where amateurs are not being measured or judged.

Where have you been listening, Pete? ? ? ? ? ?

After all, we can't all sound like we have a clothespin on our nose..............    

[W1AEX]

If you want to let FCC arbitrarily define high power for yourself be my guest.  I make no claim whatsoever to be any kind of power measuring or calculating expert and have no interest in the PEP numbers but I congratulate you on getting your FET rig up to 750 watts.    

Well said Rob. I would add my own observation that it really doesn't seems like the FCC at this time is paying much attention. When they do pay attention, their effectiveness is questionable, which is very evident from the eternal blathering of the K1MAN broadcasts on 3890 up here in the northeast. It's kinda like the old wild west out there...

Rob W1AEX

[W3GMS]

"As we get older we lose this competitive desire and really don't care as much. "

Is that happening to you Tom    
Joe, W3GMS

heheheh....  good one, Joe.

Well, to tell ya the truth, it was actually happening to me.  I was recently diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and my health was starting to go south. I stopped breathing for up to 90 seconds during sleep. Oxygen % was low, etc.

I bought the best CPAP machine I could afford and within a few weeks I feel like an athlete again. Absolutely amazing difference. Climbing towers again, etc.

I hate to admit it, but this is probably the reason I'm on here raising hell, I'm feeling so cocky.  So Lord help me when I fire up the rig soon.  I'll probably be looking for a hi hi FB signal report, OM.  And tell me I'm doing a good job, OK?  


T

Just remember Tom, someday you will be in an old age home with someone else feeding you while your trying to be heard with an inside slinky antenna looking for someone to talk to   While some young kid tall ship "squashes you like a little bug"
How do I sound, how do I sound.....

We all need to make the best of our days since they are fading away   The ultimate QSB fade never to return!

Joe, W3GMS
    

[steve_qix]

As we get older we lose this competitive desire and really don't care as much. The line, "It doesn't matter how loud I am, as long as you can hear me"  really becomes true as we get elderly.

That is sure the case with me.  Look at the setup on Rattlesnake Island: 400 watts and a not-too-high 75 meter coax fed dipole.  Hey, it WORKS and mostly people can hear me.  35 years ago, that would have been an unacceptable (too weak) setup!  How we mellow with time (usually)   

[K1JJ]

That is sure the case with me.  Look at the setup on Rattlesnake Island: 400 watts and a not-too-high 75 meter coax fed dipole.  Hey, it WORKS and mostly people can hear me.  35 years ago, that would have been an unacceptable (too weak) setup!  How we mellow with time (usually)  

Yep, you're morphing into a tall ship has-been, Steve. Who is ever going to take your place when you are "elderly?"  


Here's the harsh reality. I know this will cause some looks in the mirror...  I filled out a medical form the other day.  Here's what I saw:


15-19  young adult
20-29   adult
30-39   middle aged
40-49   upper middle aged
50-59   older adult
60+      elderly

So I'm now a 60 year old elderly stud warrior.  I thought like 95 was elderly? Unfrickin believable.


As promised, another ham generalization:

Most hams love it when other hams have heard their calls before. I think some (especially young newer hams) would send their call out on the air day and night if they could. The ultimate compliment to a ham: "Hey I've heard you on before - W1XXX - you're the guy running the pair of 813's into the 3 element Yagi, right?  Beautiful signal, OM. "

T

[K1JJ]

Just remember Tom, someday you will be in an old age home with someone else feeding you while your trying to be heard with an inside slinky antenna looking for someone to talk to   While some young kid tall ship "squashes you like a little bug"
How do I sound, how do I sound.....
Joe, W3GMS
 

Yep, this may happen to many of us.

Though, with some planning and some extra money, it could be a much different scene...

Assuming we need to stay in a nursing home due to special care, maybe they will permit us to have a laptop. Probably so, especially in the future with computers tied to the hip.

An "elderly" gentleman could make a deal with another ham or even a 2-way radio site on a hill to lease some space in their radio cabinet. Set up a remote rig via the internet and hook it to an ass kicking antenna on the tower.  This will probably become more common as the baby boomers retire but just HAVE to keep their fingers in radio.

I know W6RJ, the owner of Ham Radio Outlet, lives in a hi hi FB   LA, Calif upper crust home with his FB XYL. But remote controlled 20 miles away is his tower system on a high hill with a rotary 75M Yagi. He holds court in the 75M DX window when he's on and works Eu like a pro. The XYL just sees him at his FB desk in the den and smiles like June Lockhart.


T

[W3GMS]

Just remember Tom, someday you will be in an old age home with someone else feeding you while your trying to be heard with an inside slinky antenna looking for someone to talk to   While some young kid tall ship "squashes you like a little bug"
How do I sound, how do I sound.....
Joe, W3GMS
 

Yep, this may happen to many of us.

Though, with some planning and some extra money, it could be a much different scene...

Assuming we need to stay in a nursing home due to special care, maybe they will permit us to have a laptop. Probably so, especially in the future with computers tied to the hip.

An "elderly" gentleman could make a deal with another ham or even a 2-way radio site on a hill to lease some space in their radio cabinet. Set up a remote rig via the internet and hook it to an ass kicking antenna on the tower.  This will probably become more common as the baby boomers retire but just HAVE to keep their fingers in radio.

I know W6RJ, the owner of Ham Radio Outlet, lives in a hi hi FB   LA, Calif upper crust home with his FB XYL. But remote controlled 20 miles away is his tower system on a high hill with a rotary 75M Yagi. He holds court in the 75M DX window when he's on and works Eu like a pro. The XYL just sees him at his FB desk in the den and smiles like June Lockhart.
T

Tom,

Yes, with the great technology we have today and going into the future a lot of options will be available to us.   That is a major advantage of being an OT'er today as compared to years ago when simple full feature remote technology was not readily available.  Look at what Dave, W9AD does while he is south of the border in Mexico.  Complete full feature remote control of his home station.  Basically all you need is an internet connection and your good to go.  Out in Lancaster just a little west of me there is a retirement facility that has a separate building set up as a full feature Ham Shack.  I think they have 4 or 5 towers on the property and all the gear to hoist up new antennas whenever required.   

Picture the Tron working a big remote located transmitter while in a retirement facility saying, "wire array" ---- "shaded dipole"----"wire array"----etc...   standby...its medication time...ahhhhhh

Joe, W3GMS 

[Steve - K4HX]

Never trust anyone over 30. What ever happened to that one?

[The Slab Bacon]

Never trust anyone over 30. What ever happened to that one?

All of us that used to preach that are now well over 50