Pontiac RIP

[WA1GFZ]

Pontiac died today
Seems like yesterday when I laid rubber across the student parking lot with my 1960 Catalina, Prowlers on the back
And a few years later doing in my Dad's drill porting the crap out of a set of heads to improve exhaust flow in my '65 Tempest.
And some years later building the Firebird motor in the livingroom.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

All of GM went out of business a few years ago.

[Jeff W9GY]

Yup, owned several over the years:  Firebird, 6000, Grand Am, Sunfire, Sunbird.  All were dependable machines, sorry to see the brand go...

[WA3VJB]

Had a 76 Pontiac "detective's car," a 2-door with a 400 cu in 4bbl.

But after that, the slogan seemed to match when Pontac said

"We build excrement"

[The Slab Bacon]

All of GM went out of business a few years ago.

Let's face it Most of the american car mfrs and especially General Mothers made some pretty pathetic cars back in the late 70s and early 80s. Ford was about the only one that made anything even remotely close to a descent reliable car back then.

This gave the Japanese the chance they were looking for and they took it and ran with it!
I know too many people that now drive Nissans and Yotas that used to be dyed in the wool GM owners. Chrysler cars back then werent worth the gas it took to tow them to the scrap yard either. All have gotten their act together now, but it's like closing the gate after the cows are out in the road. The damage is done and it is too late to change it back.

Years ago, when I worked in the automotive trade, I used to love to tell customers:
"Sorry, we dont work on foreign cars". But, now there is no such thing. Foreign cars are now the norm, not the exception. You can thank the corperate greed of the americam mfrs for that.

GM was one of the worst for sitting back on their laurels and taking the attitude that
"They will buy what WE build" because of the high customer loyalty. They did not build what the customers wanted, so the customers went looking elsewhere, and found what they wanted at the time in the imported cars.

I was a dyed in the wool MoPar man for many years. Now, I wouldn't even consider one! Go Figger, I have bought / owned Fords for the last 20+ years.

So I guess Pontiac just forgot how to "Build Excitement"    

[W9GT]

It seems very sad to me that even a discussion about cars becomes political. Kinda says a lot about these times.

May the old GM of the 50's, 60's(maybe into the early 70's) rest in peace!  Home of the '57 Chevy, rat V-8s 265, 283, 327, 350, big blocks 409, 427, etc. etc  Camaros and Goats and all the other neat stuff they produced in the magic years.  I owned several Chevies and even a '57 Pontiac convertible.  Wow, what a car.

73,  Jack, W9GT

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

What is political in the posts thus far? Discussing business trends and happenings seems to be what is going on here.

The reality is that the Japanese makers would have grown regardless what the US car companies would have done. Poor performance by the USA makers just made it easier for the Japanese and others like VW.

If you look at the growth of the Japanese economy from the turn of the 19th to the 20th century to WWII, it was on an arc to compete with the USA in the 40's and 50's. Their loss in WWII just interupped and delayed that arc until about the 70's and 80's.

[WA2ROC]

My first "new" car was a 1968 Pontiac Tempest Custom Sprint with the infamous OHC 6 with a Quadra-Jet 4 barrel, 10.75 compression ratio, 4 speed, posi, and not much else.  No "Goat", but it would beat 289 Mustang or a 327 2 bbl Camaro in the quarter mile.

BTW, how many cars have you guys and gals owned that you had wished you had kept?

[WA1GFZ]

60 Catalina, 65 Tempest transplant 389, 74 Firebird, 78 Firebird transplant '74 motor bored, camed and balanced, 2009 G5.

BTW the 2009 G5 is a very nice car. I bought it for my daughter. It gets 30MPG

Rick Wagner trashed that company

[K3ZS]

Most of the Japanese cars are made in the US.   My grandfather always had the hottest cars.    I remember when he would let me drive his 1959 Pontiac.    It was automatic but would lay a long patch of rubber whenever you floored it.

[WA1GFZ]

59 and 60 hydromatic was a 4 speed with a 3.3:1 first gear.
Made up for the 3.08 rear end. I changed my '60 to a carter AFB and dual exhause. Painted it primer red so my friends called it "big red"
Later for 1 winter took care of snow removal for my painter neighbor and he shot it for me

[The Slab Bacon]

59 and 60 hydromatic was a 4 speed with a 3.3:1 first gear.

Boy, I remember those huge hulking trannies!! They were cast iron cased man killers! That was the transmission that put B&M on the map. Remember those old advertisements for the "B&M Hydro Stick" they even made adaptors to fit them to other mfr's engines as well.

They hadn't invented high stall speed torque converters yet and those were among the few automatics that would hold up to "neutral starts"   

[k4kyv]

Back in the 60s-80s while the Japanese automakers' R&D was seeking reliability, durability and fuel efficiency, the US automakers' R&D was concentrating on body style and color preferences.

I remember when the trend got its start: in the late 50s with the VW Beetle.  US manufacturers were producing long, low, wide tanks with tailfins and 13mpg fuel efficiency, and the body style was given a complete make-over every model year.  The VW came out with the tiny Beetle whose style didn't change from year to year, and got over 20 mpg (very fuel efficient for those days), and the cars began to steal Detroit's thunder, selling  like hotcakes.

VW's ads used to boast that they didn't believe in planned obsolescence.  In fact, I believe the writers of those ads are the ones who coined the phrase.  But those ads were somewhat deceptive.  The car may have looked the same every year from the exterior, other than for minor functional and cosmetic changes, such as going from the split rear window and later enlarging the one-piece one, to the emergence of the Super Beetle.  But internally, the parts were made slightly different each year, so that one could rarely swap parts from one model year to another. I discovered than when  I once owned a Karmann Ghia.  Some of the changes were totally useless, like slightly changing the size of bushings on the moving parts in the wiper mechanism, but just enough to require ordering the part for that specific model year, and making it more difficult to find a part that fit from the salvage yard. Whenever I had to buy a replacement part, I always had to give the specific model year and usually they told me that a similar part made for the previous or subsequent year wouldn't work on my car.

VW's monopoly in quality began to go down in the mid 70s as Toyota and other Japanese manufacturers made inroads and finally dominated the import car market.  The success of the Japanese was largely due to the public's acceptance of Japanese  made products.  In the years following WW2, "made in Japan" became synonymous with cheap, low quality crap, mostly trinkets of various descriptions, since their manufacturing infrastructure had been reduced to rubble during the War.  As the factories were rebuilt, using brand new equipment and state of the  art technology, they were able to produce a superior product, but it took some time for the rest of the world to catch on the quality of a Japanese product.

The quality of US cars began to go down the toilet about the same time that the majority of homes finally owned a TV, and the public began to be saturated with TV commercials to tout the latest and greatest and  to show off the newest body styles.  I wonder if there is a connection or if that was just a coincidence.  

[The Slab Bacon]

The "slant 4" was basically a 389 with one cylinder bank sawed off and a Corvair transaxle.

That was definately a strange arrangement for something from GM  

[WA1GFZ]

Yes the hydro would take neutral starts. Been there done that many times.
Also had a front and rear pump. The only problem was it shifted out of first gear too fast with no manual control. It moved that 2 ton '60 slug out of the hole

[The Slab Bacon]

Yes the hydro would take neutral starts. Been there done that many times.
Also had a front and rear pump. The only problem was it shifted out of first gear too fast with no manual control. It moved that 2 ton '60 slug out of the hole

that's where B&M made their fame, getting them to shift right!!

[flintstone mop]

My 1969 Camaro with the 327 and 4bbl Holley 750, and Hurst shifter, on a Muncie 4 spd.

Even had "ADD-ON" air conditioning installed.........The kind that the blower unit hung on the bottom of the dash.

Black stripes......................... big wheels and dual exhaust.

Fred

[K1JJ]

Sad to hear about Pontiac.

We have a nice 2004 Pontiac Grand Am here. Back three years ago it cost us $12K used.  I just looked up the blue book at $5500 retail and $3500 trade-in value.  (Haircut)

I wonder how difficult it will be getting parts in the future? Will values plummet as a result - or hold their own due to Poncho not being made any more?

Those complex computer systems scare me. Last year the car died for 4 hours after sitting at the shopping center. It had to be towed. It started working again once it went into a warm garage. The mechanic spent many hours on it trying to duplicate the crapout - even drove it for a week, but no sign of problems. I can't wait to have it up in NH and it drops out again. He thought it was probably related to the security system module going intermittent, but who knows? The analyzer codes said very little.... sigh.

Oh, for the old days when I could quick fix my goat with a wrench, screwdriver and a few clip leads.

T

[WA1GFZ]

I bought the G5 becuase it was almost $2500 cheaper then the Chevy Cobalt
same body same drive train. The G5 had more extras.
Last year they were just trying to clear out the stock. Got a 60Kmile warantee. 

[K5WLF]

BTW, how many cars have you guys and gals owned that you had wished you had kept?

'66 Chevy 3/4T P/U w/ 327, 4-spd, 4.11 posi; '49 Dodge 1T Power Wagon; '56 Willys CJ-5; '68 Camaro w/ factory 230 CID I-6 and 3-spd with Hurst shifter (also factory). The Camaro ended up with a quite highly modified 250 CID I-6 that performed 'rather well'. <G>

[W9GT]

BTW, how many cars have you guys and gals owned that you had wished you had kept?

'66 Chevy 3/4T P/U w/ 327, 4-spd, 4.11 posi; '49 Dodge 1T Power Wagon; '56 Willys CJ-5; '68 Camaro w/ factory 230 CID I-6 and 3-spd with Hurst shifter (also factory). The Camaro ended up with a quite highly modified 250 CID I-6 that performed 'rather well'. <G>

noteworthy cars that I wish I still had:
'53 Chevy 235 six with 3/4 race Wolverine cam, home made "ram" manifold with Carter WCFB 4 barrel, home brew split manifold dual exhaust, milled head with oversize valves, turned down fly wheel w/ truck clutch, etc etc blew the heck out of the old "torque-tube" drive shaft/rear end...went to newer open type......used to go lookin for Ford Flat Heads and embarass 'em. '62 Chevy 2DHT with 327-300 4 speed...replaced junk shifter w/ a Hurst, posi rear end.  That car was a factory hot rod...used to go lookin fer goats...sometimes even beat 'em. 

73,  Jack, W9GT

[WA1GFZ]

'61/62 good years. Some guys ran 348s and 409s
I wish I still had my '65 Tempest and '74 firebird with the small back window.
I loved pulling the front wheels off the ground with the Tempest (sleeper)

[WQ9E]

I wonder how difficult it will be getting parts in the future?
T

Parts availability should not be an issue as all the major running gear (i.e wear item) is shared across other GM lines via powertrain division of GM so there are plenty of non-discontinued lines using those parts.  The same is true of chassis/suspension/steering components.  Aftermarket support has always been strong also.

[W1AEX]

I definitely envied the kids with the Pontiac GTO's back in the 60's. They always looked cooler as they rumbled through the local Friendly's parking lot. My '64 Chevy Super Sport convertible with the rear-end lifted, wide tires, and glass packs just couldn't rumble as impressively with that little 283 block.

The one I'd like to have back though, is my 1969 Kaiser CJ5 Jeep with the Dauntless 225 CID Buick V6 and overdrive. That thing had torque that approached tank-like capabilities on hills and when on the highway in overdrive, it actually got respectable gas mileage in spite of being as aerodynamic as a brick. It always went where it was pointed, however, on the highway with its over-sized tires, it would sometime skip a little and point in directions that required immediate course corrections. It was always lots of fun to drive!

R.I.P. Pontiac...

[k4kyv]

BTW, how many cars have you guys and gals owned that you had wished you had kept?

None.  Every car that I have ever owned I drove until it collapsed into a pile of rust and dust, like the wonderful one-hoss shay.