Pontiac RIP

[Opcom]

All Pontiacs go to Heaven.

Cars? - They were used up when I was done, most of them. I have never owned a car I did not like.

1970 Delta 88 /455
1964 Plymouth Fury II /318
1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass SX /455
1970 pontiac GTO /400 (162MPH)
1974 Pontiac Ventura /350
1970 Buick  - same as like a Chevelle. /455 Olds powered.
1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme  /350
1968 Chevrolet 3/4 ton bread truck
1970 GMC 1 ton bread truck with swapped 307 V8, 4speed, and 3.73 rear.
1972 Ford Pinto /2.0L (180HP@8000RPM)
1986 Ford  - don't recall, some little 4-door econobox one notch above a Pinto-sized car.
1970 Pontiac Bonneville /455
1985 Chrysler 5th Avenue /318
1986 Chevrolet Caprice
1986 Suzuki Sprint (quit small cars after being hit by Caddillac in this)
1996 Chevrolet 1-ton extended cargo van
2004 Ford Crown Victoria - traded for Chevy 2006 pickup truck
1968 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 6x6 /White Multifuel
1970 Kaiser M818 6x6 /Cummins 800 CID NHC250

I prefer large dependable vehicles with large engines, and the older the better. Work requires I have a "new" car so I got the Crown Vic, then  pickup because the trunk was always too full for the bodies. I hate dangerous small cars and will never own one again.

[W3SLK]

I had a '70 Tempest with a 250 CI 6-banger. Someone must have pulled the overhead cam job out before I got it. The damn thing used to eat the timing gear on the bottom of the distributor.

[The Slab Bacon]

Raunchiac OHC 6 was just basically a 250 cid Chebby block with the "accessories" bolted on to it. It was still a pretty neat engine. There are very few left in existance, gotten to be quite rare. One of the things that killed in-line 6s in favor of V-6s was that it was really difficult to maintain a good dynamic balance at high speed with that long 7-main bering crankshaft.

[K3ZS]

The car I wished I still had was a 1958 Impala convertible, it was also a rare color "Glen Green".   I saw a 1958 Impla hardtop recently at a car show that was the same color.   I talked with the owner and he said many doubted it was an original color.    He was surprised  that I knew the color.    He had the original paperwork.    That car I had was mostly rust when I sold it for $150.

[WA2TTP Steve]

The only car I wish I still had was my 67 Olds 442 which was stolen in 1968 only 2 months after I purchased it from a friend who was going in the Army. I bought a Triumph TR-250 new to replace it and that was the worst car I ever owned but it was fun to drive. The pictures are not of mine. My 442 was gold and TR was midnight blue.

[KB2WIG]

P,
"then pickup because the trunk was always too full for the bodies "

If you had an industrial meat grinder, your problem would have been solved. Wood chipers sometimes work, but they are hard to clean.


klc

[W2XR]

Back in the 60s-80s while the Japanese automakers' R&D was seeking reliability, durability and fuel efficiency, the US automakers' R&D was concentrating on body style and color preferences.

I remember when the trend got its start: in the late 50s with the VW Beetle.  US manufacturers were producing long, low, wide tanks with tailfins and 13mpg fuel efficiency, and the body style was given a complete make-over every model year.  The VW came out with the tiny Beetle whose style didn't change from year to year, and got over 20 mpg (very fuel efficient for those days), and the cars began to steal Detroit's thunder, selling  like hotcakes.

VW's ads used to boast that they didn't believe in planned obsolescence.  In fact, I believe the writers of those ads are the ones who coined the phrase.  But those ads were somewhat deceptive.  The car may have looked the same every year from the exterior, other than for minor functional and cosmetic changes, such as going from the split rear window and later enlarging the one-piece one, to the emergence of the Super Beetle.  But internally, the parts were made slightly different each year, so that one could rarely swap parts from one model year to another. I discovered than when  I once owned a Karmann Ghia.  Some of the changes were totally useless, like slightly changing the size of bushings on the moving parts in the wiper mechanism, but just enough to require ordering the part for that specific model year, and making it more difficult to find a part that fit from the salvage yard. Whenever I had to buy a replacement part, I always had to give the specific model year and usually they told me that a similar part made for the previous or subsequent year wouldn't work on my car.

Don,  your comment about VW parts being made somewhat differently for each model year is not entirely accurate, although I certainly do not doubt your specific experience with your Karmann-Ghia. As the owner and enthusiast of a 1957 VW Beetle for the past 32 years, I am quite familiar with these cars and their history. I also realize my car is literally the polar opposite of the muscle cars being discussed in this and another current thread here on the board. Not to worry; I'm currently looking to purchase a small-block 1967 Corvette.

VW also used the addage known as "progressive refinement", a term, no doubt, their marketing people dreamed up, to promote the perception that the appearance of the car would remain essentially unchanged over time, yet the overall design itself was being continously improved. To a certain extent this was true; I think in many cases, it was to reduce the production cost of the car.

VW tended to keep major assemblies or aspects of the vehicle, such as the engine, transmission, front end, body, interior, etc., largely unchanged for years, with only minor or subtle changes to the basic design over that particular assembly's production lifetime. For example, the classic 1100 CC 36 hp engine, introduced in very early 1954, and which is really credited with providing these cars with their near-legendary reliability (and I'm sure many here would disagree with this statement), remained basically unchanged until its discontinuation in late 1960. The 40 hp engine that replaced it in late 1960, was in production until late 1965, and also remained basically unchanged during its production run. Many of the component parts, when these major assemblies were changed after a number of years of production, were not backward compatible; for example, very few of the 36 and 40 hp engine parts were interchangeable. However, the overwhelming majority of the parts in a 1960 36 hp engine were identical to those found in the 1954 engine, and those that were not are invariably backward compatible. This was also true of the 40 hp, 50 hp, 53 hp,  and later engines.

Additionally, these cars tended to undergo major overall changes in certain key years, such as 1953 (deletion of the split rear window and introduction of the synchronized transmission; previously it was a crashbox), 1958 (overall body style upgrade, including the large rectangular rear window, new dashboard, etc.; 1961 (the new 40 hp engine and completely redesigned transmission/rear axle, with 1st gear now synchronized), 1968, and 1971 (introduction of the Super Beetle, which IMHO was a real POS). By the same token, there were years where the car was virtually unchanged from the preceding model year; the 1956 and 1957 cars are almost identical, with the major exception that the '57 had tubeless tires, and the 1958 and 1959 cars were nearly unchanged as well.

I have the factory spare parts book for all VW passenger cars from 1945 thru 1971, and it is quite amazing to see parts that are directly interchangeable (no change in part number or revision level) from the very early cars to those of much later production. And where possible, VW did maintain a policy of trying to provide backward compatibility for replacement parts.  VWs spare parts service and availability was always superb, with typical Teutonic efficiency and organization; you could always get any part for these cars at the dealer level, well up through the 1990s.

The faults with these cars are a whole different story,  and a discussion of this is probably better suited to another venue; unsafe, poor heat, short on creature comforts, the list goes on. The VW was a design from the mid-1930s, intended to provide the masses with an automobile that was to be inexpensive to purchase, operate, maintain, and to be reliable. Safety was not a consideration in the original concept and design. I think it met those design criteria.

Just my 2 cents.

73,

Bruce

[K6JEK]

Wish I still had?  Whenever I get nostalgic about the '57 Chevy, the '65 Olds Cutlass, whatever, like when I see one for sale, my wife reminds me of what they were really like -- broken a lot with lousy brakes and boat like handling.  So I guess the truthful answer is none or I'd go buy something.

Here's a pretty '60 Bonneville convertible for sale.  I liked the '61s better especially Venturas but this '60 sure is shiny and cheap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1960-PONTIAC-BONNEVILLE-CONV-389-CID-TRI-POWER-ENGINE-/390257727452?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item5add2c57dc

[WA1GFZ]

I had a 4 door green '60 Catilina. One nice back seat.
My Dad gave it to me when I was 16.
points and plugs once a year.
I gave it to my brother and he gave it to our Cousin. Radiator blew at around 200K and cooked it.
1 timing chain a water pump and rebuild the starter and generator a couple times 2 sets of ball joints. I still have the jar of special flux my Dad used to repair a leak in the gas tank around '64.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

I used to pine for my '84 vette.  Lousy year, with throttle body fuel injection, with the injectors located OVER the butterfly throttle valves!  First year of the C-4 body style Manual/electric overdrive which made a horrific THUMP when used.  All digital dash board that was so bright I thought about rigging up some sort of heads up display on the windshield.

Conversely I owned a 67 VW Bug that just wouldn't die.  I sank it in a small pond (drunk GI's sometimes do silly things).  We hauled it out with a truck and towed it down the road, popping the clutch out and it started after about a mile or so, drove it home.

Now we've got the '73 vette convertible so it's all good.

[ka1cu]

I still have the car i got my driver's license with..........1968 firebird...........

[WA1GFZ]

very nice!
A friend built one with vet side pipes years ago. How about a picture

[The Slab Bacon]

I still have the car i got my driver's license with..........1968 firebird...........

I dont have the one I got my drivers lisence with, but I do still have the one I drove in my senior year of high school 38 years ago.

[ke7trp]

Bruce,
   When I was back in school one of my mid term papers was the history of VW from the start to finish including a chapter on hitler and his role. I cant think of where that paper is now but it would be fun to find it and have a read.  I got full credit and spent alot of time on it.    At the time I had just finished my 1956 oval delux VW.  I wish I never sold the car. It was one of my biggest mistakes in life.  I lived with my parents at the time and they flat out insisted it go. I won first place in the coors light bug jamboree in anahiem with the car and was very proud of it. However, It was a constant source of trouble and hassle from the police.  I was pulled over at least 2 times a week in that car. I had built a classic California style VW and it sat low, Made lots of noise and had a very bright paint scheme.

As for pontiac, I am not suprised.  They have not made a single desirable car in many years.  The only one that comes to mind is the Solstice GTP that my mom drives, But that is not really a pontiac. Its an opel with a pontiac badge.  Growing up my dad had a 1969 firebird convertable.  Fully restored to 100% original condition.  My mom could not Drive the thing as this model came with no Power steering, no power brakes, windows, logs ect..  ALL manual and lightweight. Should could not get that clutch to the floor and shift that 4 speed and as a result, Just hated the car.

C

Back in the 60s-80s while the Japanese automakers' R&D was seeking reliability, durability and fuel efficiency, the US automakers' R&D was concentrating on body style and color preferences.

I remember when the trend got its start: in the late 50s with the VW Beetle.  US manufacturers were producing long, low, wide tanks with tailfins and 13mpg fuel efficiency, and the body style was given a complete make-over every model year.  The VW came out with the tiny Beetle whose style didn't change from year to year, and got over 20 mpg (very fuel efficient for those days), and the cars began to steal Detroit's thunder, selling  like hotcakes.

VW's ads used to boast that they didn't believe in planned obsolescence.  In fact, I believe the writers of those ads are the ones who coined the phrase.  But those ads were somewhat deceptive.  The car may have looked the same every year from the exterior, other than for minor functional and cosmetic changes, such as going from the split rear window and later enlarging the one-piece one, to the emergence of the Super Beetle.  But internally, the parts were made slightly different each year, so that one could rarely swap parts from one model year to another. I discovered than when  I once owned a Karmann Ghia.  Some of the changes were totally useless, like slightly changing the size of bushings on the moving parts in the wiper mechanism, but just enough to require ordering the part for that specific model year, and making it more difficult to find a part that fit from the salvage yard. Whenever I had to buy a replacement part, I always had to give the specific model year and usually they told me that a similar part made for the previous or subsequent year wouldn't work on my car.

Don,  your comment about VW parts being made somewhat differently for each model year is not quite accurate, although I certainly do not doubt your specific experience with your Karmann-Ghia. As the owner and enthusiast of a 1957 VW Beetle for the past 32 years, I am quite familiar with these cars and their history. I also realize my car is literally the polar opposite of the muscle cars being discussed in this and another current thread here on the board. Not to worry; I'm currently looking to purchase a small-block 1967 Corvette.

VW also used the addage known as "progressive refinement", a term, no doubt, their marketing people dreamed up, to promote the perception that the appearance of the car would remain essentially unchanged over time, yet the overall design itself was being continously improved. To a certain extent this was true; I think in many cases, it was to reduce the production cost of the car.

VW tended to keep major assemblies or aspects of the vehicle, such as the engine, transmission, front end, body, interior, etc., largely unchanged for years, with only minor or subtle changes to the basic design over that particular assembly's production lifetime. For example, the classic 1100 CC 36 hp engine, introduced in very early 1954, and which is really credited with providing these cars with their near-legendary reliability (and I'm sure many here would disagree with this statement), remained basically unchanged until its discontinuation in late 1960. The 40 hp engine that replaced it in late 1960, was in production until late 1965, and also remained basically unchanged during its production run. Many of the component parts, when these major assemblies were changed after a number of years of production, were not backward compatible; for example, very few of the 36 and 40 hp engine parts were interchangeable. However, the overwhelming majority of the parts in a 1960 36 hp engine were identical to those found in the 1954 engine, and those that were not are invariably backward compatible. This was also true of the 40 hp, 50 hp, 53 hp,  and later engines.

Additionally, these cars tended to undergo major overall changes in certain key years, such as 1953 (deletion of the split rear window and introduction of the synchronized transmission; previously it was a crashbox), 1958 (overall body style upgrade, including the large rectangular rear window, new dashboard, etc.; 1961 (the new 40 hp engine and completely redesigned transmission/rear axle, with 1st gear now synchronized), 1968, and 1971 (introduction of the Super Beetle, which IMHO was a real POS). By the same token, there were years where the car was virtually unchanged from the preceding model year; the 1956 and 1957 cars are almost identical, with the major exception that the '57 had tubeless tires, and the 1958 and 1959 cars were nearly unchanged as well.

I have the factory spare parts book for all VW passenger cars from 1945 thru 1971, and it is quite amazing to see parts that are directly interchangeable (no change in part number or revision level) from the very early cars to those of much later production. And where possible, VW did maintain a policy of trying to provide backward compatibility for replacement parts.  VWs spare parts service and availability was always superb, with typical Teutonic efficiency and organization; you could always get any part for these cars at the dealer level, well up through the 1990s.

The faults with these cars are a whole different story,  and a discussion of this is probably better suited to another venue; unsafe, poor heat, short on creature comforts, the list goes on. The VW was a design from the mid-1930s, intended to provide the masses with an automobile that was to be inexpensive to purchase, operate, maintain, and to be reliable. Safety was not a consideration in the original concept and design. I think it met those design criteria.

Just my 2 cents.

73,

Bruce

[W2XR]

Hi Clark,

Nice to hear of your 1956 project VW!

They are very fun cars to drive, and as you know, there is a large contingent nowadays of collectors of these cars, including the Microbus, Karmann-Ghia, and pre-1968 Beetle models. The pre-1968 Microbus DeLuxe models with the full canvas sunroof are probably the most collectible VW vehicles, as there are so few survivors due to chronic rust issues, etc. Next in line are the pre-1968 Beetle models, with the split and oval rear window models leading the pack, followed by the 1958 and up cars.

Probably the standard for reading about VW history is the book, "Small Wonder". I have no idea if it is still in print, and I seem the remember the first edition came out in the late '60s.

I would like to see the paper you had written on the history of these cars, should you ever locate it.

VWs always evoked raw emotions in people; either you loved them or you hated them. Not much in between.

73,

Bruce

[W1RKW]

BTW, how many cars have you guys and gals owned that you had wished you had kept?

A couple of vehicles actually.

My first car, a 64 VW beetle. Got my first unspeakable. Basic transportation.
a 68 Camaro w/ 396.  Got rid of it back in the 70s when the oil embargo was in full swing. When I see what these go for on EBay I kick myself.
An '85 Ford LTD LX w/ 302. It was a special edition. Not many made. All black and looked dangerous. Somewhat unique.

[W1TAV]

Well with 14 active registrations, I have managed to keep or get back a lot of my favorite rides.. The one that got away and I have little hope of ever finding another was a 68 Camaro Rally Sport with a true Z28 suspension package.   While the meat of my collection is centered around Model T's,  Jeeps and Harley's , Here is a picture of what my wife of 4 weeks brought home today..  It was something she has wanted for a while, she found it, made here own deal and surprised me about noontime today when she pulled in with it!   Now I need to find some vintage mobile gear (like NE1S has in his Falcon) for this 62 Comet.. (The Falcon's alter Ego) - Steve W1TAV