Silent Carriers that Answer CQ

[K9PNP]

Just happened to me again on 7.160.... BIG Carrier right after I dropped the key on my first CQ.  NOW I WONDER IF IT'S ONE OF YOU JOKERS! HAH! John [/quote]

For once I have an alibi.  I'm at work and the only rigs I have are VHF Hi-band FM and 700/800 MHz digital FM.  And the 10M multimode in my personal van.

[KX5JT]

The thought occured to me that SOME of those dead carrier replies happen in the Extra portion of the bands.... maybe it's a General who doesn't wanna id but hopes we say "I hear a strong carrier".

[KF1Z]

If I think its someone playing around, the LAST thing I'd say is that I hear a big carrier....

You'd do better to mention the PW carrier in the background....

 

[KX5JT]

If I think its someone playing around, the LAST thing I'd say is that I hear a big carrier....

You'd do better to mention the PW carrier in the background....

 

Right Bruce, "I hear a weak carrier.. maybe someone is trying to answer... try it again OM!"

Usually I'll just keep calling CQ without mentioning it unless it keeps answering.

[flintstone mop]

CQ's answered by dead carriers?  

I think some instances might be fellow AMer's who are not really in the mood to talk at the moment but are feeling frisky - they tease a little by keying up a big carrier for a few seconds. In a sense they've made a "contact" without having to be tied up in a long QSO....  It's like saying, "Yep, you're being heard - keep calling."  Usually this short distraction turns out to be a good thing - causes dialogue and generates a legitimate call from someone who IS interested in talking - and the QSO gets rolling.  In contrast, sometimes calling CQ can go on forever if there is no response whatsoever.  

That's my guess.


In other instances, I've heard some locals respond to a CQ by dropping a big carrier and pausing. The CQer will say something like, "Wow! What a BIG carrier!" Then the guy will laugh and ID, as the QSO begins. Lots of variations - just part of the game.


T

I like JJ's response. Might be a new way of communicating. You guess by the carrier strength where it might be coming from. Maybe a few key-ups will give away a signature type of code about the transmitter.

Fred

[KX5JT]

 

[KC2YOI]

Perhaps you could reply with a dead key reply of your own.

If this brings a response, key up several times again but vary the duration.

If the 2nd party follows suit, you could build up a vocabulary of short and long duration transmissions.

If this works out, impose a tone on the carrier during the long and short transmissions and you may create a new form of communication....

[KX5JT]

Perhaps you could reply with a dead key reply of your own.

If this brings a response, key up several times again but vary the duration.

If the 2nd party follows suit, you could build up a vocabulary of short and long duration transmissions.

If this works out, impose a tone on the carrier during the long and short transmissions and you may create a new form of communication....

Brilliant!!! 

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

It's very slow speed CW. They're sending a T.

[KX5JT]

Or maybe it's an E... depends how slow.. hmmm.

[k4kyv]

Now for to-day's puzzler.

If they turn the carrier on and leave it on for six months, then turn it off for another six months, then back on again, is it a string of dits at 0.000001903 characters per minute, or is it an AM carrier modulated 100% by a square wave at 0.000000032 Hz? What would be the difference? Actually, there is none; the transmitted signal would be exactly the same in both cases. If we interpret it as the latter, then there has to a steady carrier, 6 dB down from the observed signal, running continuously the entire time, along with a complex set of sidebands on the upper and lower sides, spaced at odd harmonics of the modulating frequency, extending infinitely throughout the spectrum.

Now, why don't we hear that carrier during the 6-month period while the transmitter is turned off, even though it is supposed to be there? I'll give the answer subsequently if no-one comes up with it.

[Knightt150]

I have heard this several times in the past, and I have been told who it is but I cant remenber. He was a ham who was on 40M and I have talked to him in the past but still cant remember the name. Even if I could remember I would not put it out on the forum. If someone realy wants to know send me a email and I will give you what I know maybe we can figure it out from there.

John W9BFO
email w9bfo-am@charter.net

[W2ZE]

Many times I have just dropped a strong carrier on a clear frequency, and had someone call back. Reverse CQ'ing.

[K1JJ]

Many times I have just dropped a strong carrier on a clear frequency, and had someone call back. Reverse CQ'ing.

Yep, so true, Mike.  My favorite way to start a QSO is to find a clear freq, spend 15 seconds tuning up and then sock a few Holas to see how the rig looks on the scope. If it's prime time on 75M, I'll get an answer at least 70% of the time. There are usually many listening looking for the chance to start up.

The bigger our signal, the quicker the response, of course. Most hams think if they hear someone loud, then THEY too, will be loud on the other end. Not always the case, but it helps.

When I get a dead carrier return, I'll usually give them a signal report like it's a normal thang. This may get them to ID and join in.

Otherwise, just the jabber will attract others to the frequency.  I think it's the built-in ham desire to help restore "law and order" that makes them come in if there is jamming or anonymous carriers going on...

T

[ka3zlr]

LOL That's all we need another form of communication LOL

Call it DCRT Yessir : Dead Carrier Return Transmission

CQ DCRT............................................................................................Over

Length of Emission optional to Subscribers.

Just like when it's hot out CQDQ  CQ Dairy Queen CQDQ..


73

Not Normal.

[WD5JKO]

Happened to me last night on 7165. I had been calling CQ for about 10 minutes with many pauses, and THEN A carrier swooshed onto my frequency, dropped out, came back, dropped out, and returned for about 30 seconds. It was very strong. I followed with QRZ, etc....nothing - gone.

Jim
WD5JKO

[W2PFY]

The answer has been in front of you all the time. It's HF MOON BOUNCE. Next time try different lengths of cq calling. The longer you call CQ, the longer the dead carrier. It's not understood why HF signals that bounce off the moon lose their modulation. I think it a weird phase shift where the modulation goes to the dark side of the moon.

Maybe some day science will answer this question??

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The answer has been in front of you all the time. It's HF MOON BOUNCE. Next time try different lengths of cq calling. The longer you call CQ, the longer the dead carrier. It's not understood why HF signals that bounce off the moon lose their modulation. I think it a weird phase shift where the modulation goes to the dark side of the moon.

Maybe some day science will answer this question??

When the modulated signal hits the moon and returns, the audio waveform returned is 180 degrees out of phase, effectively canceling the audio component. It must be true; I read this on the web.

[WD5JKO]

When the modulated signal hits the moon and returns, the audio waveform returned is 180 degrees out of phase, effectively canceling the audio component. It must be true; I read this on the web.

 maybe the offending station is running "East Coast Audio" 

Jim
WD5JKO

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

What's east coast audio?

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

What's east coast audio?

That's when you see a carrier pop up on your meter, and you can actually hear and understand the audio associated with it.  

[KX5JT]

Maybe it's a CQ from an alternate universe where their time is so fast that the audio becomes subaudible.  We here in this world seem like a still picture to them.... 

Reference:  Star Trek Episode 68 - "Wink of an Eye"

[WD5JKO]

What's east coast audio?

I got the concept from the following post:

http://amfone.net/ECSound/k1jj22.html

Those that run big carriers with little audio will sound fantastic to each other on short skip 75m propagation where a bunch of AM'ers are all within a 200 mile radius of each other, hence "east coast sound". These same carriers make it to the Midwest, and the west coast, but are largely unintelligible since the audio is usually in the noise level due to the low modulation percentage. Listening to NE roundtables here in Texas, this effect is very apparent. Then the next guy might be 100% Q5 and not have an S meter reading any higher. 

I'm not being critical; this was just an observation with a little tongue in cheek jab. 

Jim
WD5JKO

[K1JJ]

Hi Jim,

Yes, some audio may be hard to copy long distance even if modulated fully - if it has too much boosted low end or lack of highs, no doubt.



"Flexibility under varying conditions is the key here. "

This last sentence is the key to that post.  There are nights when the hi-fi east coast guys hold court and just want to talk locally. The group often gets so large they don't bother to listen for western break-ins.  Keeping the audio down to around 100% positive is just fine. It's easier on their AM band neighbors too. Then when cornditions get poor or we start having western check-ins, the audio gets cranked up.  The class E guys can run upwards of 180%+ modulation. I do with my e-rig sometimes. The plate modulated rigs are usually more limited, but heck, the BC stations usually run no more than 130% positive, right?

Personally, I think modulation levels are like power levels - be ready to adjust them for varying conditions. The downside is when the eastern locals turn their audio down, they may be hard to hear out west, but then there's always the web based receivers to listen in...  (and vice-versa for hearing west coast guys on 3870)

It's really an art to adjust our audio to sound good locally and still have DX punch. That's why having multiple EQ, processing and percentage of modulation settings are important.


Gawd, I'm just dying to get back on the air. It's been about 4 weeks in this heat.  Been out playing with summertime thangs.

Later -

T

[ka3zlr]

Expectations ..Oh Boy..