11 Yr Old EXTRA

[flintstone mop]

This month in ER there is featured on the cover a very young YL and her Elmer story how she became a Ham OP. I admire her for the energy to go "all the way" to EXTRA. Maybe I can get Extra Class also, if it's just a memory thing with the question pool. I remember the Extra Class ticket as very invlolved with calculating antenna fields and questions that would be in a FCC 1st class radio license.
Has it really gotten that easy that an 11yr old can do it? Or does she really know the technical world that well?
Maybe I better check out the question pool!!!

Fred

[Jim, W5JO]

Fred, by using rote learning (memorizing) it is easy.  Sort of a giveaway.  But the new extra operator will depend on dad to know how to cut a dipole.  Wonder if she can recognize that ceramic is an insulator and know that you need that or plastic insulators at the end of the wire?

[N1ESE]

Anyone who can memorize the answers to some of the questions can pass the Extra.  Shamefully, on some of the hard stuff, this is how I had to pass my Extra after the 3rd attempt.  Math and I have never gotten along well at all. 
 
However, I'm admitting my guilt as I take a break from the 1946 Radio Handbook currently opened to page 191 on the "Systems of Amplitude Modulation".

- JT

[ka3zlr]

Quite Frankly it's a...I don't know what it is..But it's what is wanted and that need out ways the purpose...Don Has the right idea he has discussed with us before, and I support that.. but...the powers that be require something else.

I was very happy when i made General a long time ago, problem i have with taking any test even from childhood..But Now it's more of a formality a General is not what it used to mean...Oh well, Today is what it is...30 years from now who knows....

[flintstone mop]

Well, SHOOT, I'll give it a try too.
Math and me NEVER got along and I have paid the price for that. MANY job opportunities gone and costly mistakes buying things that I mis-calculated measurements or electronic terms/specs.
My background in electronics is strictly from life's experiences, not from books or a college education, sorry to say. My hat's off to the folks on this board who have some sheep skin tacked up on the wall.
Phred

[Carl WA1KPD]

I'm glad there is someone that age interested in the hobby

[AB3L]

Try here:
http://www.qrz.com/p/testing.pl

[W1UJR]

Whoa guys, let's be fair here, we don't know how she got her ticket.
She might very well understand the theory as good as, or better, than you or I.
And as an Extra, you know that she had to get her CW down, something that adults twice her age struggle with.
In any case, memorized or not, I certainly commend her for her efforts at that tender age!

If you're that interested in radio at that young of an age, chances are good that you'll make it a lifelong interest.
Young folks like that are the future of radio, and its up to us to teach them the magic behind the theory.
If we can succeed in that, then the amateur service has a good chance of staying active, and relevant, long after we've gone on to our reward.

There is nothing I get a bigger kick out of than seeing a vintage photo of young JNs back in the day. 

[N1ESE]

Bruce, I don't think any of us were attacking her directly.  Memorization of the question pool is a very common problem these days, I know I am guilty of it to an extent.  I think Jim and I were generalizing more than anything.  I'm glad she's interested in radio, I'll have someone to talk to on the air, and sell my rigs to, when I'm an old buzzard! 

-JT

[ab3al]

well shes got me beat by 4 years.. extra at 15... except  IM A REAL EXTRA.. CODE AND ALL

lol

[Bill, KD0HG]

Let's give credit where it's due.
IF the test was passed by memorization, or by rote, there would be a lot more 11 year old extras than this ONE exceptional case. Dozens of them.

The girl is owed an apology.

[Jim, W5JO]

Sorry no apology from me, the odds are she can't do the math but maybe has a picture memory.  Those are the odds, now will she stay with radio or forget it like so many of my friends who took their initial test in 1955 and didn't renew at the end of the license period?  I do hope she stays with it, but again the odds are against her.

If she stays, how active will she be?  I don't hear that many ladies on the air, and never have.  Does this mean I am trying to diminish her accomplishment?  No!  She earned the ticket and I do hope she becomes and evangelist for ham radio.  I believe many of us don't know how to carry on a radio conversation with a lady and the predominance of bad language and crude behavior may drive her away.

Math was one of my weaker subjects and I considered it boring.  I had to relearn all I knew in high school and college much later in life.  I am glad I learned the code early and fast too.  It made passing all the tests I took that much easier. 

I do hope the license will open doors and give her great satisfaction as it did me throughout my working life.

[w8khk]

I took the general and advanced exams in the presence of an FCC official in 1968.  I did not take the time or effort to upgrade to extra until 2006.  I bought the ARRL study guides.  I passed the test on the first go, but IMHO I do not consider the tests "dumbed down", and I do not believe I could have passed via sheer memorization.  I dread the memory questions, for example, specific band limits for a given license class.   I prefer not to memorize these, because they change over time, and they are easily looked up when needed.  Most of the questions selected by the VEs for the test I took required UNDERSTANDING, not memorization.

Questions regarding filter design, reactance and resonance at given frequencies must be solved, not memorized.  While studying for the exam, I was forced to delve into newer technologies, for example, DSP.  I found the study guide to be a reference for future use, not a book to promote memorization.  Code or no-code, I have a high respect for any ham that earns EXTRA.  

This young lady should be congratulated!

[N1ESE]

Questions regarding filter design, reactance and resonance at given frequencies must be solved, not memorized. 

There is nothing to solve when a test is comprised of four multiple choice questions.  The CORRECT answer is always staring you right in the face.
 
- JT

[w8khk]

Jim, do NOT bet she cannot do the math.  I had an "awakening" when visiting my daughter in Florida, who teaches first grade.  The math they teach is nothing like what we learned years ago.  Although they may not use the specific words, the students in first grade are learning decimal and binary math, algebra, set theory, logic diagrams, etc.  My grandson, at the same school , can apply a good bit of trig, and understands sine, cosine, etc.  You would be surprised to know what they must master to comply with "no child left behind"!

[k4kyv]

I had the equivalent of a mathematics major at university, yet I never studied "set theory" a day in my life in any of my courses, from grammar school arithmetic through differential equations and analytic geometry.  To this day I'm not exactly sure what it is, and I have never encountered it anywhere in any technical material I have read or studied.

I was always good at mathematics, but found it tedious and for the most part, not too uninteresting. However, I'm glad I studied it, and still use it quite often. I was fortunate to have an excellent university calculus instructor, who kept my attention and I grasped the concepts right away.  He was not even a Phd, but a much better instructor than the Phd dept head who attempted to teach our college algebra and trig course, which I found so boring that I had a hard time staying awake in the class.

One of my more interesting courses was analytic geometry.  I remember aceing the course, while many of the other kids in the class who were probably a lot smarter than I, were having to struggle to eke out a "C".

As for the YL, things have changed a lot since I was first licensed at age 17.  Back then she would have been able to meet and make friends with intelligent ind interesting young people over the radio.  If she listens much to hams working HF slopbucket and 2m CB to-day, I'm sure she is less than impressed with what she hears.  When I first started out, I always wondered why more girls didn't get interested in ham radio.  With the present day crowd, I'm surprised there are the extremely few who are.

[Bill, KD0HG]

How much this YL learns and contributes; how far she advances is also up to us OTs.
We can either encourage her by sharing as much as she is willing to learn, or we can be jerks and treat her like a second class ham.

I still remember the latter when I was WN9OZC. Gave me a bad attitude towards 1X2 calls. LOL

[W1UJR]

As for the YL, things have changed a lot since I was first licensed at age 17.  Back then she would have been able to meet and make friends with intelligent ind interesting young people over the radio.  If she listens much to hams working HF slopbucket and 2m CB to-day, I'm sure she is less than impressed with what she hears.  When I first started out, I always wondered why more girls didn't get interested in ham radio.  With the present day crowd, I'm surprised there are the extremely few who are.

That's really it, isn't it?

Its now largely up to us to welcome this YL, and other young folks on the air. If she is exposed to, as Don so aptly puts it, "HF slopbucket and 2m CB", I'm quite certain she'd wonder what she worked so hard for. If on the other hand, she is both welcomed and appreciated on the air, and dare I use the word "Elmered", right off, then she may very well grow to love the amateur service.

Tuning across 75 meter slopbucket, (and I use the term "slopbucket" to refer to the antics which seem to be most prevalent there, for I operate SSB as well.) on a typical evening is often a source of embarrassment for me when I have non-ham guests in the shack. They wonder why folks would bother to spend the time on the air swearing, discussing various body noises, or just attacking other ops. Tuning on 17 meters with the foreign DX calling is quite another matter.

Tuning in a full quieting AM QSO, or bringing in some European DX really does seem to have a draw to younger non-hams. Perhaps it is the same thing that fascinated you and I, the ability to speak with someone in a far off country or culture via nothing more than a wire in the air. People seem to get that, its unique, and somehow magical. CW is another mode which seems to draw folks in, they hear the "dah dit" and snap to attention. But most of all, I find what really draws folks in, is old radio gear. The plastic gear from Japan looks like a glorified cell phone, but show a non-ham a tube transmitter, especially when he/she can see the tubes glowing, and you've won half the battle. 

Its easy to think her father helped her, or show disdain for what the amateur testing is like now. Mea culpa, I've been guilty of exactly that in the past, turning up my nose at newly minted no-code HF ops, but now realize that attitude only hurts the amateur service. There are here, and it is my job to elmer and encourage them, if nothing else than to see our amateur privileges continue into the next century.
We can chose to discount this YL's efforts, or welcome her into the fold, I'd opt for welcoming.

Perhaps we can this to a different tack, how we can welcome younger folks into the hobby, and once here, allow them to feel welcome and a part of something great?

[KF1Z]

""  If she listens much to hams working HF slopbucket and 2m CB to-day, I'm sure she is less than impressed with what she hears.  When I first started out, I always wondered why more girls didn't get interested in ham radio.""


Well, that's likely ALL she's listened to so far!
So, something in there somewhere must have interested her enough to go take the tests.

Maybe not.... could just be she wanted to do what Dad was doing...

At 11, she should be able to do most any of the math...at least with a calculator....


Oh well, hope the interest is there, and by next year she has a bunch of 12 year old ham friends.

[W3SLK]

Somehow I'm thankful more YL's and XYL's aren't hams. Hell, I have to put in a reservation to use the phone at my house. Imagine the trouble getting on a boatanchor!! My wife proposed about getting her ticket when we moved and her best friend lived in VA. I told her it wouldn't be good for her friend to have a rig in an apartment. All things said, it was cheaper for me to move her best friend here than to pay the longdistance phone bills, (or by another rig and antenna for that matter)

[AF9J]

I agree with what Bruce said,

No matter how she got her license, if she is given support, and decent mentoring, the chances are much better she will not only stay in Amatuer radio, but will grow as an amateur, and hopefully become an asset to Amateur Radio.  Without any support, more than likely she'll probably do what I almost did back at age 16 in 1980 (when I was still not on the air [due to a lack of money for gear, and support from other hams or my parents], in spite of being licensed for 2 years), when it was time to renew my Novice license - quitting Amateur Radio altogether.   Admit it people, we don't want a bunch of losers getting into amateur radio, but the average age of today's hams is well into the 50s.  I never thought I'd see the day, where at age 44, I'd be considered one of the younger (albeit OT) hams.  Amateur radio needs younger people.  BUT, they need support and proper guidance.  I was a rarity back when I was a teenager.  In spite of a lack of help, I still hung onto my license.  But if it had happened nowadays (with so many more things being available for younger people to do), I would have probably called it quits.  We don't need that.  We also don't need to be dissing her if she's a no-code Extra, because she's "not as real a ham" as one who had to pass the code to get the license, or had to draw out schematics on the written.  I got my Extra back in 1994 doing 20 WPM.  I remember having to analyze schematics for my Novice, General, and possibly even my Advanced.  Do those things make me any more of a ham than the 5 WPM, or the no-code Extras?  No.  It's what you do with the license, that determines if you're a decent Radio Amateur.  

73 & just my 2 cents worth,
Ellen - AF9J

[AF9J]

Somehow I'm thankful more YL's and XYL's aren't hams. Hell, I have to put in a reservation to use the phone at my house. Imagine the trouble getting on a boatanchor!! My wife proposed about getting her ticket when we moved and her best friend lived in VA. I told her it wouldn't be good for her friend to have a rig in an apartment. All things said, it was cheaper for me to move her best friend here than to pay the longdistance phone bills, (or by another rig and antenna for that matter)

Shame on you Mike!

Ellen - AF9J

[Bill, KD0HG]

...       and WHY do I always have ticket #6 to get into the bathroom when it's still in use by YL #2?

HUH? HUH?

[AF9J]

I'm NOT going there!

Ellen - AF9J

[W9GT]

Perhaps many OTs that got their licenses under the "old" way of doing things are a little resentful of the "cheapening" of the effort by making the tests much easier.  The fact is that no one should be criticizing a great effort by this youngster to get her license.  I commend her effort and I commend her tribute to her Dad.

Don't misplace your anger at the system by directing it toward new young licensees!!

73,  Jack, W9GT