Question, a Flagship Transmitter sponsored on the forum.

[ab3al]

1. paper or plastic
2. boxers or briefs
3 blond or brunette
4. latex or lamb

it all tastes like chicken whats it matter

[W4EWH]

It's a Simple matter of choice in decision making:

 Step one: Toob or Solid state.

 The biggest dilemma What is available in today's supplier houses to get the job done.

 Final Step: build it run it and document it..

I'd vote for both tube and solid state, but when I think about it, I wonder if it's the best way to encourage new AM'ers. Let me think out loud here for a second:

• It would have to be tubes that are still being manufactured or that are/were so common that it's not a problem.
• Could we do an "All American Five" transformerless kind of design to save on cost?
• What power level? If it's pw, it'd have to have at least enough strap to drive a linear. Full "legal" limit? Something in between? All of the above?
• Maybe we could get a list of components that are still available off-the-shelf, and figure a price from that: if a tube design costs too much more than buying a used rig, then that'll work against it.
• We'd need to get have construction details for components that aren't commonly available. Come to think of it,   we'd need to have a list of sources for every component.
• I suppose getting the components is a problem no matter if it's tubes or solid state: I've been trying to find a heat sink for a class E rig for months.
• There have been a lot of FM transceivers retired from commercial service: is there a warehouse full of old motracs somewhere?
• How about old tv receivers? How many old tube receivers are going to be recycled during the HDTV conversion? Probably not a lot, but there'll be a lot of plastic cabinets for cheap .

Well, we'll have to talk about particulars: the idea AFAICS is to have standard designs that most of us on the forum can help with and/or build ourselves. I'm leaning more toward a kit if we do a tube layout. There I go pimping for a kit again. 

FWIW. YMMV.

73, Bill W1AC

[K4QE]

If the objective is a moderate to legal-limit output transmitter with (mostly) readily available parts, I think the only answer is the QIX Class E RF amplifier and PWM or Class H modulator and power supply designs.

For low power, a series modulated, hollow state rig is fine, but unless the builder plans to pump it into a linear amplifier, the builder will be quickly discouraged with not being able to be heard during prime time.

Personally, my challenge with building any transmitter isn't understanding the electronics involved.  It's the mechanical aspect of the building process that gives me heartburn.  Seeing step-by-step pictures of a rig being built (like Karl KD3CN has done) is a great help with construction ideas.

The other challenge is tooling.  Some guys don't have access to tools for doing the metalwork necessary for a build.  If a person plans to build just one transmitter, the money spent on tools for the project could exceed the cost of the transmitter itself.  If future building is planned or inspired, it's easier to justify the cost.  Of course, this cost might not even be an issue if they know someone who already has some or all of the necessary tools and skills to help out.

[KF1Z]

I've been trying to find a heat sink for a class E rig for months

You must want something special?
Some speacial size or something?

Heatsinks are as common as flies....

[W5AMI]

Why not just let people choose what they want to do instead of trying to put some stamp of approval on ONE approach. Choice is good.

Just my opinion, but I think Steve is right.  Variety and uniqueness is what makes home-brewing the fun that it is.  If we all had the same TX or RX, there would not be a lot to talk about here, or on the air.

[KF1Z]

I think a kit is way out of the park.....

Don't get me wrong, nice idea...

But you have to wonder who here, that has the expertise to pull it off.....
Has the time it would take to coordinate it?



A real good compromise is this....

Since high power class-e aspect is pretty much covered,
And there is a forum available for questions regarding building the transmitters.



I think it was HUZ, that said "a well documented project would be a good idea."

Take any of the tube transmitter schematics that are in the files section here, as WD8BIL posted earlier in this thread... like K1ETP's 'cake-pan'.....

And write a bit on how you would go about assembling, and testing........

Just DOCUMENT something that is already designed.
That alone would take a good writer a fair amount of time!

Any of those would probably be a good candidate, if it looks like  the components have decent availability, or replacement possibilities.

[ka3zlr]

Hi Guys,

These discussions are great, the thinking is positive, you put yourself in the other guys seat that never built a thing, has an idea but never tried...likes what he or she sees on this forum here's on the air, looks on this forum for help..just in the last few postings here there's a lesson.

 There is no one rig that answers all the questions, all the ideas are good, everything in context...the idea is to stir interest..stir up discussion..pick a rig and let's tear it apart...one looks at some of these dimensional drawings on here and there's a alot of small important bits missing...even a discussion on a decent power supply is missing on here that wud fit some of the piss weak rigs...that's one basic building block that's needs attention...sorely...


It doesn't matter to me, I've built my share down through the years, the idea is in the sharing of technique...

[WA3VJB]

In my opinion, acquiring and working with an existing piece of gear remains the most practical way of bringing a new person into the AM Community, if that's a goal of Jack's posting about "why isn't there one transmitter localized on the forum here as a flagship." (is there another point to having a "flagship" transmitter, Jack?)

And I know that Jack was not envisioning a kit, even though that's where this discussion has taken us, so I'll comment --

People have a lot going on and a "kit" takes time to organize.

One example:

QIX's MOSFET project seems to typically involve a lot of follow-up and hand-holding despite the reputed simplicity of the circuit. Unless he is available to talk people through the troubleshooting, someone trying to build one without full documentation or experience would more likely let the whole project languish, unfinished, and the person themselves would possibly be turned off from participating with us.

I know Steve has been asked, in the past, to consider coming up with a standardized manufacturing process which could yield some board designs and hardware to allow people to connect-the-dots. This was, in turn, a potential article in one of the mainstream ham magazines.

Neither panned out, and it's probably a result of the amount of time it would have taken to follow through. I don't see any additional details to change the status of that, from his posting in this thread.

So if the idea is to offer someone a "walk through," then we are left with the existing database for vintage transmitters, or the more fully available kits using contemporary components.

Perhaps amfone.net could team up for the further development of the K7DYY transmitter and the "AM Max III."  Each is a potential alternative for a hands-on project that people can have the confidence and determination to complete. This website could provide a form of marketing and visibility, along with technical discussion (if not support, which should come from the vendor).
http://k7dyy.com/
Circuit boards will be available for $50.00 plus shipping for those who wish to build their own. No kits will be available. The BOM will identify vendors for the parts.
http://www.pcs-electronics.com/am-max-ii-dsp-am-transmitter-p-244.html

[ka3zlr]

Well Done Paul,

 I've been giving that Class D system a long look, it's cheaper than buying a Flex..LOL...

 I wanted to see where a discussion like this would go, what it would bring out, and how it would end up. It is interesting you have to admit...

[WA3VJB]

Ya, good thread.

I constantly struggle with how to respond to people I work on AM where they've come in for the first time or whatever, and want a big sound and a big signal.

A packaged design or other standardized process would help, but as many have pointed out, we are far from one-size-fits-all, and really shouldn't be.

So my answer, when someone wants to know how to "really get into AM," will be from where I'm already at.

[K4QE]

I considered the K7DYY transmitter, but I do not have the skill set to build the kit form due to the SMDs.  I may be wrong, but I think any inexperienced builder would be similarly put off.

[K9ACT]

At the risk of repeating myself, this discussion needs to focus on one issue and deal with it.  As I see it there are at least 3 here that don’t have much to do with each other.

1.  How to get hams interested in AM
2.  How to get hams interested in home brewing
3.  What sort of rig should they use, buy or build.

1.…. To get hams interested in AM, we need to sell it, using all the marketing strategies one uses to sell any idea.   This is actually the easiest issue to deal with as it only takes words.

2.…. Getting hams interested in home brewing is like finding a husband for your ugly daughter.  Just ponder the 50 years or more of handbooks with thousands of well documented articles on transmitter projects.  What has been the result?  Hams buy rice boxes as fast as manufacturers can produce them.  One is born with the interest to build things.  I do not believe one can force feed this attitude.

3.… To be consistent with (1) they should start with whatever they have that produces AM.  As they have no idea of what they sound like and little idea of what AM sounds like on a rice box, the receiver might me more important than the transmitter.  What is the point is telling them how great AM sounds if it sounds like SSB?  But that is getting off the subject. 

As the subject seems to address #3, I suggest starting new threads if anyone is interested in  the other two.

Jack K9ACT

[K4QE]

At the risk of repeating myself, this discussion needs to focus on one issue and deal with it.  As I see it there are at least 3 here that don’t have much to do with each other.

1.  How to get hams interested in AM
2.  How to get hams interested in home brewing
3.  What sort of rig should they use, buy or build.

1.…. To get hams interested in AM, we need to sell it, using all the marketing strategies one uses to sell any idea.   This is actually the easiest issue to deal with as it only takes words.

2.…. Getting hams interested in home brewing is like finding a husband for your ugly daughter.  Just ponder the 50 years or more of handbooks with thousands of well documented articles on transmitter projects.  What has been the result?  Hams buy rice boxes as fast as manufacturers can produce them.  One is born with the interest to build things.  I do not believe one can force feed this attitude.

3.… To be consistent with (1) they should start with whatever they have that produces AM.  As they have no idea of what they sound like and little idea of what AM sounds like on a rice box, the receiver might me more important than the transmitter.  What is the point is telling them how great AM sounds if it sounds like SSB?  But that is getting off the subject. 

As the subject seems to address #3, I suggest starting new threads if anyone is interested in  the other two.

Jack K9ACT

Jack,

I'd like to comment on a couple of your points with my 2 cents.

Point 1 - In my opinion, the selling of AM is best done by those who are transmitting AM.  That's how people get drawn in.  That includes both current licensees and SWLs.  Hearing the AMers on 75 meters is what got me drawn into this hobby almost 30 years ago.  That's how folks get drawn into nets on other modes, too.  Therefore, I submit that this point is already being done.  Of course, this needs to be kept in mind when we conduct ourselves on the air!

Point 3 - Yes, it's true that most will start out with whatever they already have, but I think ZLR's intention was to provide guidance for those already interested to take it to the next level.

[W4EWH]

I've been trying to find a heat sink for a class E rig for months

You must want something special?
Some speacial size or something?

Heatsinks are as common as flies....

I didn't explain myself very well: I've been looking in the recycling bins at local drop-off centers, with no success. In other words, they're not recycled very often in my town.

Bill, W1AC

[KF1Z]

I've been trying to find a heat sink for a class E rig for months

You must want something special?
Some speacial size or something?

Heatsinks are as common as flies....

I didn't explain myself very well: I've been looking in the recycling bins at local drop-off centers, with no success. In other words, they're not recycled very often in my town.

Bill, W1AC

Well, in your defense...
You DID say "looking"... and not "shopping"!!

;-)

[W4EWH]

At the risk of repeating myself, this discussion needs to focus on one issue and deal with it.  As I see it there are at least 3 here that don’t have much to do with each other.

1.  How to get hams interested in AM

.…. To get hams interested in AM, we need to sell it, using all the marketing strategies one uses to sell any idea.   This is actually the easiest issue to deal with as it only takes words.

If you know a ham who's in the advertising business, please ask him to get involved: I've done publicity campaigns for non-profits before, and it's a surprisingly thorny problem.

2.  How to get hams interested in home brewing

.…. Getting hams interested in home brewing is like finding a husband for your ugly daughter.  Just ponder the 50 years or more of handbooks with thousands of well documented articles on transmitter projects.  What has been the result?  Hams buy rice boxes as fast as manufacturers can produce them.  One is born with the interest to build things.  I do not believe one can force feed this attitude.

With respect, I'll differ with you here. I think new hams rise to the level of the group they're in, and if they are introduced to an environment where building is the norm, they'll be willing to take on the challenge. I don't think we can force a new ham to learn everything needed to build a transmitter from scratch, but that has always been true: newcomers need a helping hand and some Elmers who can reassure them that they're not going to be stuck with several hundred dollars worth of parts and nobody to ask questions of.

Support covers a lot of bases: I'm not saying we should produce a pre-cut chassis, but small things such as offering to bring a set of hole punches to a hamfest so a builder can do it there, or contributing old SO-239's &c to a common pool of parts, or loaning out a nibbling tool, would go a long way toward taking the anxiety out of a project. The most important base is at the start: we need to show newcomers that it can be done. Publishing photos and schematics of homebrew rigs, with commentary and tips and an explanation of the reasons for a certain layout, is a tremendous aide to a newbie.

Our challenge is not to promote any one design, but rather to offer the support and encouragement that all young hams need when taking on a transmitter project. We might not able to give talks at every club meeting, but we can have construction workshops at hamfests, and provide a lot of the knowledge and support via the forum.

3.  What sort of rig should they use, buy or build.

.… To be consistent with (1) they should start with whatever they have that produces AM.  As they have no idea of what they sound like and little idea of what AM sounds like on a rice box, the receiver might me more important than the transmitter.  What is the point is telling them how great AM sounds if it sounds like SSB?  But that is getting off the subject. 

As the subject seems to address #3, I suggest starting new threads if anyone is interested in  the other two.

Jack K9ACT

You're right about that: whatever they have is what we need to encourage. But if they don't have anything, then we need to recommend a path they can follow. That leads to the "Flagship" design idea, and I think we should offer such designs.

73, Bill W1AC

[ka3zlr]

Gentlemen,

 All good replies, ya know for a little idea, this thing has better than 1200 views, heck we're on the fourth page with this..I didn't think this thing would go this far But I AM Very Thankful...... It shows interest...Excellent...

 It's hard to reply to all at once so I will agree, Yes, maybe this is to early, better focusing is in order, Yes, Help when needed, Yes..when a question comes in jump on it...I support what is being said...but in the mean time I am going to work on a small project and bring it in as well others who feel the same that would aid in this, do the same, over a period of time it might lead to a final outcome that would satisfy this interest.....Post heartily....What say...The thought grows with production...

Alot of things are in order, looking down through AM Handbook on site...maybe time to start looking through and fill in some of the empty holes take some of those postings and expand...bring More in...

 And the New Guys out There...Get in here and Ask away...Please Do.......Join the Forum .... That's what this is here For....

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Ok, this is my opinion, like all free advise worth what it costs.

A simple transmitter, easy to build, and understand the basic concepts would probably get people into building.

Look at  QRP the other aspect of the hobby where people routinely homebrew everything.  Start with something simple like a PIXIE CW transmitter, two transistors and an IC audio amp.  Easy to build trouble-shoot and you can make contacts with it. It's not a great rig, actaully it's not even a good rig, but it gets you started. Gives confidence and then you can make changes and experiment (which is where you will get people hooked).

Remember the simple novice kits of the 'old days' they weren't great rigs, they were designed to get you started.

A place to find details about such a simple AM rig, and get help, no matter how "Stupid" your question is patient mentoring will build a life long ham.

As far as generating a kit,  don't.  Get a real Solid state AM rig that would put out say 50 watts.  Solid state with modern components. Generate a Parts list that would be accepted by MOUSER (you can upload your bill of materials to their site direct for ordering parts) and they will pick and ship your "KIT".   

Put the schematic, building directions, and the parts list on a web page.  The builder copies the parts list, orders the parts, and prints the BD and schema.  Very low investment, and I doubt you could make it any easier to get started.

[KB2WIG]

  " I can't find the thread that started this so I am starting a new one.  "

Here it is .... ..            klc

[WD8BIL]

Welp... OK....Now... define "sponsored".

[WD8BIL]

Welp... OK....Now... define "sponsored".

Day 2 !

It's difficult to be a sponsor when ya don't know what's involved in sponsoring !

[WA1HZK]

Hey
I just packed up a 120 watt modulator that I'm not using and am shipping it to Grant, KG4RJF. He in turn is giving it to his Elmer who has been off AM for many moons. If someone needs parts and you have a crap load like me just send them over. People turn me on to radios being scrapped and offered up for use all the time. My standing philosophy is that "If You Are Going To Make AM, You are Welcome to the Part!". Over the years I figure I have added parts to many rigs and will continue to do so. I don't think it's possible to pick one way to do it and promote that way. I'm a tube guy, when I run into other tube guys I can communicate directly easily to them. That does not mean I have no understanding of Class E or D. I just prefer Glass-FET's. But if a AM'er tells me he needs a heat sink or a 2:1 Line voltage transformer of 2 KVA, I'll look around and probably find it. If it's a pricy thing at a local surplus store I find the intended recipiant is always more than willing to pay the cost and shipping to get said wonder-item. In conclusion, pay attention to the "Wanted" list on this site and get on the air (3890 is nice) and walk the walk. There is no point in being buried with all this stuff. If some newbie remembers me or Timmy or Brent because we helped them, that's a good thing. It's just the right thing for us to do. So next time someone asks "Where do I get a plate choke for 813's? Just remember, You don't really need 10 spares.
"AM is a Way of Life" (WA1HLR)
Keith
WA1HZK

[KB2WIG]

  "  Just remember, You don't really need 10 spares. "

Yup, yer rite..  But,

 If you have one, you need two so that if #1 craps out, you have a spare. But If #1 busts, now, number #2 becomes number #1 , so you need another, i.e. #3 which will then become #2. This is OK if nothing goes wrong. But, if there's a crap out, you now have the problem of " Which one is broken? ". Just because #1 is not working, Is it really busted? Well you have 2 left to check it against. But What if #2 and #3 don't measure the same? How do you know if They are gud, or which one is gud? And even if they measure the same, how do you know that they aren't busted, and #1 is actually OK? Well you need #4 to cover the above conditions. So, say you replace #1 and the devise works OK. Your back to only have 3 working units;  back in the shytie creek again. This proves that you need #5 to be safe. This will give you 1 working unit and the  necessary back up to be safe. So the 5 units are really only 2. Now, if you want redundency, you really should have more than the bare minimun of 5. But certaintly not 10, as that would be greedy.

klc

[WD8BIL]

If you have one, you need two so that if #1 craps out, you have a spare. But If #1 busts, now, number #2 becomes number #1 , so you need another, i.e. #3 which will then become #2. This is OK if nothing goes wrong. But, if there's a crap out, you now have the problem of " Which one is broken? ". Just because #1 is not working, Is it really busted? Well you have 2 left to check it against. But What if #2 and #3 don't measure the same? How do you know if They are gud, or which one is gud? And even if they measure the same, how do you know that they aren't busted, and #1 is actually OK? Well you need #4 to cover the above conditions. So, say you replace #1 and the devise works OK. Your back to only have 3 working units;  back in the shytie creek again. This proves that you need #5 to be safe. This will give you 1 working unit and the  necessary back up to be safe. So the 5 units are really only 2. Now, if you want redundency, you really should have more than the bare minimun of 5. But certaintly not 10, as that would be greedy.

Exactly !

[WA1HZK]

Since we have about 25 of every item, that should not be a problem.