Question, a Flagship Transmitter sponsored on the forum.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

The idea of a well documented construction project is a good one. I guess I got wrapped around the flagship term.

[ka3zlr]

 Gentlemen,

 Without stepping on any toes, and My inability to write correctly...my problem..

 Here is the Transmitter that should be sponsored, Mated with Steve's VFO..would make. a wonderful Flagship of this Forum....

 http://mysite.verizon.net/sdp2/id11.html


 Start this out for 75/80 once completed it leaves the ability to Expand...It's perfect...


 Is this Possible...? I'm not sure...


Opinions Please...

[W4EWH]

A solution looking for a problem??

Two things:

My feeling is that as a group, Steve QIX included, we should not under any circumstances make "getting into AM" the equivalent of buying a store bought rig.

Steve, if your new box idea does not require the buyer to wire things, and read the instructions and schematic, imho you'd not be doing anyone a service! Please give this some thought!

Hi Tom,

Have absoultely no fear in this regard    Any such transmitter that I come up with will absolutely require building by the user, and possibly, but not probably, sourcing of parts.  I can arguably say that providing a kit of parts will provide a much higher probability of success, which is probably a good thing for a beginner - a good reason to provide most of the parts.

On kits:  I have done considerable design work with respect to modulators and transmitters over the past 35 years or so, and I have published articles, schematics, plans, how-tos, etc..  Creating something like the old Heathkits would involve MUCH more work.  The kits have to be extensively tested, and built by a reasonable sampling of people with varying skill levels.  There would then be re-testing (after changes), and of course must be FCC type approved for amateur use.  With all that, we're getting into money and much time. 

Gentlemen,

Sorry, but I didn't make my point clearly.  I'll try again.

[RANT]

The biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is not technical: it's human nature.

I'm an "old law" Extra: I passed the 20 WPM code test and I studied the Smith chart and memorized the VXO circuits and learned what combination of antenna element spacing and phasing would produce a cardioid directional pattern.  I feel a natural, and human, tendency to expect that all who come after me should do it the same way I did - to say "I crawled under the barbed wire, so by Ghod they should crawl under the barbed wire, too."

But: the FCC decided that the barbed wire wasn't needed. No amount of nostalgia will bring it back, and no amount of agonizing over the "perfect" AM transmitter will accomplish a goal, and unless I've misunderstood, I think the goal is to make it easier for hams to start using AM.

Let's think about what will help that goal:

• Having one or more "standard" transmitter designs will help. It will leverage the expertise already available here, and will also give newcomers some assurance that there will be advice and help available to them. Let's face it: for practical purposes, most hams started out with a standard transmitter design - the nameplate might have been different from rig to rig, but entry-level transmitters were all pretty much the same.
  
  
• Having a standard set of parts will help: I don't know about others, but I don't have the time to comparison shop for the best buy on tires for my car, let alone capacitors, inductors, etc., etc. for a homebrew transmitter. A kit of parts is priced as a unit, and I want to make a decision based on the total cost, not that of each component.
  
  
• A standard design will give builders some peace of mind about replacement parts being available and affordable.
  
  
• Those who start with the "amfone" design(s) will be able to move upward as they learn and grow, and the rigs they've built will then be handed done to other hams that need help, thus building a pool of expertise, adding to the community of AM operators, and giving us the numbers that translate to political advantage in FCC rulemakings.
  
  

I agree that AM'ers are a more hands-on group than Slobbucketeers: those who've had to scrounge for parts, to repair ancient transformers and brittle wire and dried-up capacitors, and to work with a 6db disadvantage are entitled to be proud of their achievements. But we sometimes forget that the expertise came over a span of many years, and that we started off green and confused just like the newcomers of today. We don't get to point to the live-fire range and say "Crawl under that barbed wire, and then I'll help you": nobody has time for that these days.

So, we come to the heart of the argument: are we trying to get more hams on AM, or are we trying to demand that those who are interested in the mode serve the same apprenticeships that we served? Only one approach will be effective, since the goals differ depending on the answer.

[/RANT]

73, Bill W1AC

[steve_qix]

Gentlemen,

 Without stepping on any toes, and My inability to write correctly...my problem..

 Here is the Transmitter that should be sponsored, Mated with Steve's VFO..would make. a wonderful Flagship of this Forum....

 http://mysite.verizon.net/sdp2/id11.html


 Start this out for 75/80 once completed it leaves the ability to Expand...It's perfect...


 Is this Possible...? I'm not sure...


Opinions Please...

That is a 400 watt transmitter that only puts out a small amount of power.  I'm actually working on a true 2 MOSFET transmitter that puts out under 100 watts, and is CONSIDERABLY smaller, simpler and MUCH less expensive.

I think that one would stand a good chance of success.  This project has been in the works for several weeks at this point and there are 4 local New Englanders who are slated to be the test cases :-)

Talk later and Regards,

Steve

[WA1HZK]

Buddly
That's a pair of glowing 4X4's?
How close are we?
Need any parts?
I'm stripping out a 2.5 KW BC Rig right now
Keith

[K9ACT]

The biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is not technical: it's human nature.

Seems to me, the biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is the ARRL.

Even the rice box manufacturers make it as simple as pushing the AM button.

Most hams (including myself until recently) assume that AM was made obsolete by SSB and there ends the subject because it is treated like that by the ARRL.

The idea that  putting a restored-by-someone-else boat anchor on the air is somehow different from putting a rice box on the air is nonsense, no matter what mode.

There are two issues here:

AM because it's AM and educating hams to what it is and why we enjoy it...

And hands on, DIY putzing and homebrewing.

The only reason AM relates to the latter is because in it's classic form, one does not have to be an engineer to understand it, fix, modify or even build it. 

The question to be answered is: are we crusading AM to bring more people into the mode because it's our favorite or are we trying to get hams back into building and tinkering?

I like AM because of the way people (and hopefully I) sound and because I enjoy the challenge building things.

Either of the above is reason enough.. so who cares what they use?

Most of the hams out there can get on AM with the push of a button and many of these are the slop bucket antagonizers we talk so much about.  Let's hook them before we get into technical retraining.

js

[W8EJO]

So, we come to the heart of the argument: are we trying to get more hams on AM, or are we trying to demand that those who are interested in the mode serve the same apprenticeships that we served?

[/RANT]

73, Bill W1AC

[/size]

Well put!

We should be encouraging new AMers & the transmitter project may help in that effort.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

So, we come to the heart of the argument: are we trying to get more hams on AM, or are we trying to demand that those who are interested in the mode serve the same apprenticeships that we served?

Answer: Yes!

Point being, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

[ka3zlr]

A solution looking for a problem??

Two things:

My feeling is that as a group, Steve QIX included, we should not under any circumstances make "getting into AM" the equivalent of buying a store bought rig.

Steve, if your new box idea does not require the buyer to wire things, and read the instructions and schematic, imho you'd not be doing anyone a service! Please give this some thought!

Hi Tom,

Have absoultely no fear in this regard    Any such transmitter that I come up with will absolutely require building by the user, and possibly, but not probably, sourcing of parts.  I can arguably say that providing a kit of parts will provide a much higher probability of success, which is probably a good thing for a beginner - a good reason to provide most of the parts.

On kits:  I have done considerable design work with respect to modulators and transmitters over the past 35 years or so, and I have published articles, schematics, plans, how-tos, etc..  Creating something like the old Heathkits would involve MUCH more work.  The kits have to be extensively tested, and built by a reasonable sampling of people with varying skill levels.  There would then be re-testing (after changes), and of course must be FCC type approved for amateur use.  With all that, we're getting into money and much time. 

Gentlemen,

Sorry, but I didn't make my point clearly.  I'll try again.

[RANT]

The biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is not technical: it's human nature.

I'm an "old law" Extra: I passed the 20 WPM code test and I studied the Smith chart and memorized the VXO circuits and learned what combination of antenna element spacing and phasing would produce a cardioid directional pattern.  I feel a natural, and human, tendency to expect that all who come after me should do it the same way I did - to say "I crawled under the barbed wire, so by Ghod they should crawl under the barbed wire, too."

But: the FCC decided that the barbed wire wasn't needed. No amount of nostalgia will bring it back, and no amount of agonizing over the "perfect" AM transmitter will accomplish a goal, and unless I've misunderstood, I think the goal is to make it easier for hams to start using AM.

Let's think about what will help that goal:

• Having one or more "standard" transmitter designs will help. It will leverage the expertise already available here, and will also give newcomers some assurance that there will be advice and help available to them. Let's face it: for practical purposes, most hams started out with a standard transmitter design - the nameplate might have been different from rig to rig, but entry-level transmitters were all pretty much the same.
  
  
• Having a standard set of parts will help: I don't know about others, but I don't have the time to comparison shop for the best buy on tires for my car, let alone capacitors, inductors, etc., etc. for a homebrew transmitter. A kit of parts is priced as a unit, and I want to make a decision based on the total cost, not that of each component.
  
  
• A standard design will give builders some peace of mind about replacement parts being available and affordable.
  
  
• Those who start with the "amfone" design(s) will be able to move upward as they learn and grow, and the rigs they've built will then be handed done to other hams that need help, thus building a pool of expertise, adding to the community of AM operators, and giving us the numbers that translate to political advantage in FCC rulemakings.
  
  

I agree that AM'ers are a more hands-on group than Slobbucketeers: those who've had to scrounge for parts, to repair ancient transformers and brittle wire and dried-up capacitors, and to work with a 6db disadvantage are entitled to be proud of their achievements. But we sometimes forget that the expertise came over a span of many years, and that we started off green and confused just like the newcomers of today. We don't get to point to the live-fire range and say "Crawl under that barbed wire, and then I'll help you": nobody has time for that these days.

So, we come to the heart of the argument: are we trying to get more hams on AM, or are we trying to demand that those who are interested in the mode serve the same apprenticeships that we served? Only one approach will be effective, since the goals differ depending on the answer.

[/RANT]

73, Bill W1AC

 Well Said Bill...

[W4EWH]

The biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is not technical: it's human nature.

Seems to me, the biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is the ARRL.

(snip)

Most of the hams out there can get on AM with the push of a button and many of these are the slop bucket antagonizers we talk so much about.  Let's hook them before we get into technical retraining.

js

JS, I'm not sure which way you're going here, so please excuse me if I've misread your post.

On the ARRL, I'll quote President Roosevelt: They may be sons of bitches, but they're our sons of bitches! (emphasis added).

I admit to being prejudiced, since I'm a life member of the League, but I think I'm right when I say that it's the most effective voice hams have (please note that I didn't say "the best voice" or "the only voice"). I agree that the League has been shortsighted when it comes to AM, but the League is a membership-driven organization, and whatever else I say about it, I can say that I'd rather work to change their stance on AM than to have them ignore and/or oppose us.

On your last paragraph: I'm not sure what you mean by "let's hook them before we get into technical retraining". Certainly, I favor welcoming all who want to use AM, no matter what the technology or manufacturer, but I think we can offer technical training in the form of an easy to build transmitter kit without alienating those who chose to use store-bought rigs. As I said, I'm not sure if I'm getting your message here, so please correct me if I have the wrong impression.

73, Bill W1AC

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is not technical: it's human nature.

Seems to me, the biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is the ARRL.

The biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is hams themselves. It has nothing to do with the ARRL. The ARRL doesn't give a hoot if you operate AM, SSB, CW, Digital, etc., etc. as long as you follow the FCC rules and good amateur practices.

If you want to get more hams into using the AM mode, one needs to develop a rational sales pitch as to why a ham would enjoy the mode over modes such as SSB, FM, pencil tapping, etc. One needs to pitch the communication, technical, efficiency, and fun advantages of using AM over SSB when operating phone. Might be a real challenge.

Or, is the real point of this discussion trying to say, you not a "real" ham or "real" AM'er, unless you're technically astute and build something.

[WD8BIL]

OK .... here's my contribution.

I'm sending Steve 500 power FETs. Suitable for Class E.
Order your boards from his site and have at it !


Who's next ?

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

 

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Or

[WD8BIL]

"I crawled under the barbed wire, so by Ghod they should crawl under the barbed wire, too."

We should, however, expect a reasonable level of technical skill. Otherwise it's just glorified CB. If we expect NOTHING that's what we'll get. KA-MAWN !

[W8EJO]

Or, is the real point of this discussion trying to say, you not a "real" ham or "real" AM'er, unless you're technically astute and build something.

It's safe to say that many view the appliance operating slopbucketeer as something of a pseudo ham.

The transmitter project/kit could become the perfect vehicle for introducing these "pseudo" hams to the technical aspects of the hobby while simultaneously getting them on AM. It could start them on the path to becoming, as Pete said (perhaps sarcastically) "real" hams just as many of us got our first taste of the technical side of the hobby with a DX20 or DX35. 

I'm sure there were some "real" hams back in the 1950's who looked down on Heathkits as "not real building". But the kits eliminated enormous barriers to building & got us hooked. 

The fact that "appliance" radios have gotten so much better (and incredibly cheaper) over the years has nearly eliminated the market for the less expensive homebrew or kit alternative, Elecraft being the lone modern exception. [Consider that a new, do it all, ICOM 706IIG @$900 today is equivalent to $126 in 1960 dollars] Combine these facts with the ever increasing demands on the time of the 21st century adult & it's easy to see why we are where we are. 

The Elecraft model is instructive & should, I think, guide the process. The K-1s & later K-2's , were relatively inexpensive, relatively easy to build, & technically advanced, in some cases far more advanced than their "appliance" competitors. They created excitement in the marketplace &  introduced thousands of hams to the technical side of the hobby just as Heathkit did back in the 50's. 

So if one was to create a relatively inexpensive, relatively easy to build, & technically advanced AM transmitter, it should have the kind of appeal that gets people excited enough to actually build & use it which is, I think, the goal.

[K9ACT]

[

JS, I'm not sure which way you're going here, so please excuse me if I've misread your post.


 I'd rather work to change their (ARRL) stance on AM than to have them ignore and/or oppose us.

That was precisely my point.  Their attitude makes them the biggest obstacle to our crusade simply because of their enormous influence.

>On your last paragraph: I'm not sure what you mean by "let's hook them before we get into technical retraining".

The second biggest obstacle to AM is the ignorance and/or behavior of the slop bucket crowd.  I do not really care how many AMers are out there as long as I can engage in a QSO or roundtable when I get the urge.  The problem is the attitude of the rest of the community and the solution is education, not what kind of rig they use or their technical agility.

Hams need to know that AM is OK and fun and as easy to get on as SSB.  Once that message is understood by all, the slop bucket jammers will lose their audience and find something else to do.

This has got to be our crusade and we can all do our share even if we can't convince the ARRL.

I used to get incensed when a got SSB responses to my AM CQ's but I have since decided that these are great opportunities to sell.  In at least half of these QSO's, the SSBer was more than willing to push a few buttons and get on AM.  And they were all grateful for the discussion and many have shown up down the log on AM.

js

[K4QE]

I used to get incensed when a got SSB responses to my AM CQ's but I have since decided that these are great opportunities to sell.  In at least half of these QSO's, the SSBer was more than willing to push a few buttons and get on AM.  And they were all grateful for the discussion and many have shown up down the log on AM.

js

That's an interesting point, John.

Late last year, I called CQ on 3875 AM and Chuck WA4GGL responded!  Now there was a tall ship from the 70s who is no longer active on AM, but he obviously still keeps an ear on things.  We had a great one hour cross-mode chat.

[ka3zlr]

Gentlemen,

First of all I appreciate all the posts, Thank You very much for all the input.

Second i never said anything about a Kit of any kind...my point was a Transmitter walk through, something on the order of 40 watt was the original ideal.

What we take for granted building others may have not the working knowledge, a system that can grow with an inspired beginner...was my thinking...

It was a nice run on postings, it was inspiring......Thank you....

[W4EWH]

We should, however, expect a reasonable level of technical skill. Otherwise it's just glorified CB. If we expect NOTHING that's what we'll get. KA-MAWN !

With respect, I will point out that those who pass an amateur exam have, by definition, a reasonable level of technical skill. Frankly, I feel that AM'ers, as a group, have an extraordinary level of technical skill, but I also feel that it's unproductive to expect that newcomers to the mode (or, for that matter, to the hobby) should exhibit the same level that we, as a group, got to by years of operating, building, experimenting, and sharing ideas.

Sixteen-year-old boys don't climb into Peterbuilt trucks the day that they get their Learner's Permit: they start in smaller, safer vehicles and learn by doing - a necessity in driver training and in ham radio, since neither maneuvering in a semi nor in a pileup can be learned from books. Hams have an advantage over truck drivers: we get to build our own "training wheels".

Our hobby, and the AM mode, depends on on steady stream of newcomers, and while we might disagree on just how steep their learning curve should be or how quickly they should be expected to climb it, I thing we'll all agree that we must help them to learn!

Offering some stable, affordable, and easily buildable transmitter designs will give them that help.

73,

Bill, W1AC

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

but I also feel that it's unproductive to expect that newcomers to the mode (or, for that matter, to the hobby) should exhibit the same level that we, as a group, got to by years of operating, building, experimenting, and sharing ideas.

I don't think anyone is expecting such.

[ka3zlr]

Good day,

 It's a great idea, it's a positive move, and it's needed...problem is motivation...action...activity in sharing...is it or is it not desirable..I don't know...

It's only a thought till it's shared then it becomes an idea...

[K5MO]

Regards potential "profits"....

Trying to turn a profit on a hobby enterprise is a good way to torpedo both, IMHO...

John K5MO

[ka3zlr]

Ya Know,

 I think the time is now,...I'm just gona come straight out with it be honest and tell the truth..like Cagney...

 Who wants to put a team together here on this and get it done..I'll help all i can i have nothing for Plate AM but that's gona change here real soon...We can do it right here for all eyes...This is the AM Forum we Build.......any hands say Aye....

It's just an organizational issue with documentation provided simple...

[ka3zlr]

It's a Simple matter of choice in decision making:

 Step one: Toob or Solid state.
 Step two: Choice of oscillator.
 Step three: Choice of buffer stage.
 Step three: Amplifer package/ Pi network.
 Step four: Modulation, Series or Plate best solution keep it simple.
 Step Five: Power supplies.

 The biggest dilemma What is available in today's supplier houses to get the job done.

 Final Step: build it run it and document it..