The AM Forum

Good Morning,


 I've been thinking, with all the information that has been gathered here and on the other sites why isn't there one transmitter localized on the forum here as a flagship, using today's state of the art, using today's available components, readily made easily built.

 The idea would need to be cleared by our Techs, something on the level of 40 watt, multi-band would be nice, enough power to drive an amp, a flagship transmitter for the masses.


 any thoughts...?..Opinions..?




 

The idea is a good one, and is in progress  :)

As far as a "flagship", it it might be more of an "opinion" thing than something real.   Even the power level would be up for debate.   ;D   

For instance, I myself would say a "flagship" transmitter would have to be at least 300 watts or it is not of sufficient power to be a flagship.  But, this is my opinion.  I think of transmitters below 200 watts as low power.  When I use my Pulse Width Modulated Valient, I tell people I'm running low power.  Some people call 5 watts low power.  I call that flea power.  This is just an opinion.

Then, I can imagine the technology issues  :)  Should it be solid state?  Tube? Hybred (tube final, solid state modulator like in my Valient?).  Then, whether it should low power modulated/linear amplified or directly modulated.  Some people swear by linears, some swear at them !!

It seems as if here at AM Phone, we do a good job at presenting several different technologies and methods, and people seem to choose what they are attracted to.

The class E stuff is well publicized, and a fair number of people have built these transmitters, but so have people build the "pair of 813s modulated by a pair of 813s" combination, which is also published here.  And then there are the numerous rice box modifications.


But, I will venture an opinion as something for the "masses", which I am actually working on.  It is this:

Most of the new-ish hams I speak with seem to have rice boxes.  They are everywhere.  Then, they try to use them on AM and of course most of the time, it's bad.  SEVERAL of these folks have asked for a low power AM transmitter (up to 50 watts) which they can interpose between the transciever and the linear amplifier.  This enables the receiver to be used, and the linear to be used, but gets rid of the AM within the transciever.

The device uses the RF (unmodulated) from the transciever as the VFO, and automatically switches in and out when the transciever is keyed.  The audio within the transciever is not used at all (for transmit), and is part of the "AM generator".

The modulator is of very high quality, direct coupled (no transformers), and includes negative peak limiting and audio processing.  Plug in a condenser mic and go - full fidelity AM !

Simple, inexpensive, practical, effective solution to get the (majority) of amateurs on AM without getting into the world of modifiying an, often expensive, piece of equipment.



Anyway, there's one band aide.

Not a flagship in this man's opinion, but certainly practical and effective!!

Regards,

Steve

I think the two most popular HB projects - "flagships" as you say, Jack - are Steve's Class E implementations and K1JJ's Tesla 360.  Both are well within the capability of inexperienced builders and both highly effective.

Something on the order of an A.M. "Transverter" ..... eh Steve ?

Hmmm... I've built transverters for 6 and 2 meters in the past. The 6 meter one was based on Drakes TR6 which had tube finals and did 100 watts.

Another Hmmmmm...... might need some looking into.

He's talking about  using the VFO of the rice-box, to drive a calss-e amplifier that's externally modulated by a PWM (I assume)....

But that's for people that HAVE a rice-box, and HAVE a linear....

What a waste it would be to go out and buy a linear to use just for that.

If you don't already have the Rbox and leeneah... then a full-fledged E-rig is in order!

Read it again.


So it's a given "they" already have a transceiver and leenyar !

The only assumtion I made, was that the modulator would be a PWM...

No need to read it again..... I know what he meant....

When I said "what a waste it would be to to buy a linear just for that....."

I was only refering to those people that MIGHT think that it would be easier to buy a linear to use with a rig like that, rather than to build a high-powered e-rig.....


I guess I should be carefull of what I try to type, with only one cup of bean in the morning!!

:-)

Ok, Ok, Ok, Ok,.......slow down..maybe good idea, bad choice of words..my fault...i will rephrase...thought was well meaning ..... i had to take the dog to the vets first thing this Am, i just got back....

 On the order of today's state of hamy hambone, how about a 100 watt rig not pep, pure sine wave at 100 watts...mulit band..with the ability to adapt to a higher outpoot...it would be able to start the job and then grow with the builder...that's a thought...

 

 

Why not just let people choose what they want to do instead of trying to put some stamp of approval on ONE approach. Choice is good.

I agree Huz, but the thought is to entice building at a some what entry level, Not everybody is up to building the tesla rig...heck i can't put maybe 5 guys in my area here that have the ability to approach building that......no disrespect meant....

But a sponsored ideal, on the forum here, a nice walk me through build up..then add ...um,...not that this is "the all" approach.. but a budding inspired builders transmitter...

Well, I'm not doing great with words this morning either, but....

I THINK zlr's  idea was, that if there was, on this site, one COMPLETE transmitter project, for those who are new to the realm of building and/or AM.

You know, schematics, a few words of wisdom.... similar to what you might have found in the old handbooks. Something that goes from VFO straight-through to out-put tank circuit.

I know, there is some schematics etc to be found here and ALL OVER the web....
But, very few complete "how-to" s.
And, if you're new to it... you may not know what type of modulator to use with what configuration of amplifier etc.

That's exactly how I ended up building my e-rig.... I was searching for info on how to build an AM transmitter, had very little luck until I found Steve's site.....


So, yes, when you know how to make a choice, choice is good...
When you don't know... choice is just another variable.

A class E transverter is what I waz suggesting. ie "something on the order of.."

But hell.... I'm just a Buddly. Carry on... I'll just sell all my stuff and keep hunting.

Welp, I've been thinking, I remember Huz said in another thread about the future being "software"..that's fine... my thinking today, why not a laptop AM rig...use the computer and some of these all in one chip building blocks for oscillators, controlled by the computer,.. build up a final amp with the ability to do 100% duty cycle ..... just an idea...

I vote for a complete kit for a complete transmitter, including "Connect part A to terminal strip 1 (NS)" instructions, just like Heath made. Heath did more to get hams on the air than all other manufacturers combined, just because building the kit was an invaluable way to learn about construction, layout, and wiring.

I also vote for legal limit: with class E, it's no more work than low power.

Profits, naturally, would support the forum.

Bill, W1AC

The future may be in software, but this is the present.

SDR works awesome for transmitters. That's where the concept shines. Whenever someone sets out to design any kind of transceiver these days, they do so by designing a transmitter that can receive. The problem lies in the receiver.

Today's SDR receivers have only the slightest low-Q filtering in the RF stages, and that's it. No IF at all. The problem there is front-end overload. If a strong signal gets in and saturates the analog-to-digital converter, the receiver simply stops working, no matter what frequencies you and the overload signal are on. If the converter is overloaded, there's nothing whatsoever software can do to compensate. It just stops functioning.

This is bad, IMHO.

Yeah, great, you've got as much defined in software as theoretically possible with today's technology, but that alone doesn't make it perform better. We've climbed the mountain because "it was there", now it's time to climb it again, but without casualties this time.

You can't reflash your microprocessor-controlled fridge to make it into a microwave oven. The right hardware is still key, and the current thinking behind SDR has forgotten many lessons learned that led us to superhet design all those years ago.

I think "sponsoring" (whatever that's supposed to mean) is not necessarily going to make any difference. There are so many disparate ways to get on AM, why suggest to a newcomer that this group primarily endorses one approach as "right" above others? Isn't that the same as the ARRL mentality that pisses us off so much?

If you've got a design, post it, Jack. No need to have it reviewed and "type accepted" by this group. The newcomer should do what's within their means, not what fits others' tastes. They should go with a design that works best for them, not us. They don't need to be handed a cookie-cutter design and told "that's what we find acceptible around here", they can get plenty of that in almost every other facet of the hobby.

My $0.02.

--Thom
Kilowatt Amplifier One Zero Grid Current

Can we start over?

What on Earth is a Flagship Transmitter?  Is this the one that the chief Moderator sails?

And... why or how can this list sponsor same?

Is someone going to build them and spam the list with ads for it?

It's great to discuss favorite rigs but this whole discussion or at least the subject, makes no sense to me.

js

I would like to see a "progressive transmitter". You build and use it in prices as your comfort level increases.

I have several old books with that type of design but they are pre WWII.
They follow a format something like this

Chapter 1 is a basic transmitter (6AG7 to 6L6) with a simple power supply.
Chapter II could be a simple modulator
Chapter III could be a VFO
Chapter IV a bigger PA designed to mate with the xmtr
Chapter V a bigger modulator using the original modulator as a speech amp
Chapter VI is about how to really strap

I still think the origional idea was simply to have a design with schematics and advice posted here somewhere that someone new to AM and/or building would be able to follow, and put together an AM transmitter....

If I'm wrong... well, ok then, I've missed the point as well.......


The problem usually lies with the people out there that KNOW how to build a modulator, and put it together with an amplifier that they KNOW how to build....
But they are either unwilling, (or more likely, just don't have the time) to compile a simple set of instructions on how to go about building one, and share it with those who want to learn.


Now, there probably is a website somewhere, like QIX's, that does just that...

Well, does anyone know where?

Can any of you point to a particular site, or article, or handbook writing that would enable a "newbie" to be able to buiild their own AM transmitter?


ZLR, correct me if I'm wrong, but is it this kind of idea you were getting at?
Just having somewhere on the site, this type of thing?

Take your pick.

http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/k1etppw.htm (http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/k1etppw.htm)
http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/50c5/50c5.htm (http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/50c5/50c5.htm)
http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/ne1stx.htm (http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/ne1stx.htm)
http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/ne1sps.htm (http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/ne1sps.htm)
http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/eltx.htm (http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/eltx.htm)
http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/series.htm (http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/series.htm)

Anyone with a genreal class or higher SHOULD be able to do SOMETHING with these !!
(ow!!! that hurt to write.)

A solution looking for a problem??

Two things:

- you can't spoon feed people that do not want to be fed!
- if JXX and FXE (who I know locally) have both built full fledged variants of the 813 x 813 rig, anyone who wants to can. (neither had much hombrew experience before attempting those projects)

My feeling is that as a group, Steve QIX included, we should not under any circumstances make "getting into AM" the equivalent of buying a store bought rig.

Steve, if your new box idea does not require the buyer to wire things, and read the instructions and schematic, imho you'd not be doing anyone a service! Please give this some thought!

Fact is that anyone who really wants "on" for AM can buy a boatanchor and either do a mod, or else have someone do it for them. But at least there is that minimal effort and the potential (small as it may be) present to get that far, and then to go beyond that point.

This boils down to the "no-code"/"canned questions" licenses vs. the "hard way"/homebrew situation all over again.

My feeling is that if there is no effort involved in getting onto AM, then there is no reward and we pollute and dilute the "gene pool."

More is not always better.

Conversely, I think that perhaps we as a group are overlooking the serendiptious benefit/side-effect of AM and that the participants in AM generally speaking have been - that being we/they/us - are extremely DIY, hands-on, and motivated ops!

A "kit" might be a good idea - but if it doesn't involve some personal effort for the buyer, to me it is probably not a good thing. Parts for a tube style rig would be almost impossible to source today... so would just an output pi-network... (for a kit, you need many of the same thing...) very expensive at best!

Oh, I think that being an AM op should be viewed by the community an elite, special thing (not unfriendly though), that other hams should aspire to[/u]!! 

        _-_-bear


PS. fwiw, I have experience writing step-by-step "heathkit" style instruction books... ;D

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Hi Tom,

Have absoultely no fear in this regard  8)  Any such transmitter that I come up with will absolutely require building by the user, and possibly, but not probably, sourcing of parts.  I can arguably say that providing a kit of parts will provide a much higher probability of success, which is probably a good thing for a beginner - a good reason to provide most of the parts.

Such a transmitter will probably employ a high efficiency analog modulator (simpler to debug and more forgiving) and be more or less indestructable with respect to mistuning, etc.



On kits:  I have done considerable design work with respect to modulators and transmitters over the past 35 years or so, and I have published articles, schematics, plans, how-tos, etc..  Creating something like the old Heathkits would involve MUCH more work.  The kits have to be extensively tested, and built by a reasonable sampling of people with varying skill levels.  There would then be re-testing (after changes), and of course must be FCC type approved for amateur use.  With all that, we're getting into money and much time. 

Would such a kit be financially viable?  That's a question.  If it took, say, 2 people 1 year to do the development and field testing, the time alone would cost over $200,000 (I'm including the loaded overhead rate of 2 people - and I'm using a 1989 number!!) - then you have the parts, sheet metal design and manufacturing, insurance, documentation, etc, etc, etc. consumed in testing and product assurance, and I haven't come close to covering everything.  Could enough kits be sold at a high enough profit margin to make the project viable, or for that matter, to break even?  I'm skeptcial, but am open to ideas and suggestions  :-\

Sure, one could turn out a low quality, half-baked product (there are such products on the market today), but this is not a good thing and I for one wouldn't do it.

Anyway, interesting topic  8)

Regards,

Steve

You're joking.... right ?

Of course I'm not joking..

What does being a general class or above license holder have to do with taking a schematic (especially those you posted are all tube type), and turning it into a working transmitter?

 Yes Sir,

 That is precisely the idea...i didn't mean to incite any negativity..

The idea of a well documented construction project is a good one. I guess I got wrapped around the flagship term.

 Gentlemen,

 Without stepping on any toes, and My inability to write correctly...my problem..

 Here is the Transmitter that should be sponsored, Mated with Steve's VFO..would make. a wonderful Flagship of this Forum....

 http://mysite.verizon.net/sdp2/id11.html


 Start this out for 75/80 once completed it leaves the ability to Expand...It's perfect...


 Is this Possible...? I'm not sure...


Opinions Please...

That is a 400 watt transmitter that only puts out a small amount of power.  I'm actually working on a true 2 MOSFET transmitter that puts out under 100 watts, and is CONSIDERABLY smaller, simpler and MUCH less expensive.

I think that one would stand a good chance of success.  This project has been in the works for several weeks at this point and there are 4 local New Englanders who are slated to be the test cases :-)

Talk later and Regards,

Steve

Buddly
That's a pair of glowing 4X4's?
How close are we?
Need any parts?
I'm stripping out a 2.5 KW BC Rig right now :)
Keith

Seems to me, the biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is the ARRL.

Even the rice box manufacturers make it as simple as pushing the AM button.

Most hams (including myself until recently) assume that AM was made obsolete by SSB and there ends the subject because it is treated like that by the ARRL.

The idea that  putting a restored-by-someone-else boat anchor on the air is somehow different from putting a rice box on the air is nonsense, no matter what mode.

There are two issues here:

AM because it's AM and educating hams to what it is and why we enjoy it...

And hands on, DIY putzing and homebrewing.

The only reason AM relates to the latter is because in it's classic form, one does not have to be an engineer to understand it, fix, modify or even build it. 

The question to be answered is: are we crusading AM to bring more people into the mode because it's our favorite or are we trying to get hams back into building and tinkering?

I like AM because of the way people (and hopefully I) sound and because I enjoy the challenge building things.

Either of the above is reason enough.. so who cares what they use?

Most of the hams out there can get on AM with the push of a button and many of these are the slop bucket antagonizers we talk so much about.  Let's hook them before we get into technical retraining.

js

Well put!

We should be encouraging new AMers & the transmitter project may help in that effort.

Answer: Yes!

Point being, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

 Well Said Bill...

JS, I'm not sure which way you're going here, so please excuse me if I've misread your post.

On the ARRL, I'll quote President Roosevelt: They may be sons of bitches, but they're our sons of bitches! (emphasis added).

I admit to being prejudiced, since I'm a life member of the League, but I think I'm right when I say that it's the most effective voice hams have (please note that I didn't say "the best voice" or "the only voice"). I agree that the League has been shortsighted when it comes to AM, but the League is a membership-driven organization, and whatever else I say about it, I can say that I'd rather work to change their stance on AM than to have them ignore and/or oppose us.

On your last paragraph: I'm not sure what you mean by "let's hook them before we get into technical retraining". Certainly, I favor welcoming all who want to use AM, no matter what the technology or manufacturer, but I think we can offer technical training in the form of an easy to build transmitter kit without alienating those who chose to use store-bought rigs. As I said, I'm not sure if I'm getting your message here, so please correct me if I have the wrong impression.

73, Bill W1AC

The biggest obstacle to getting hams on AM is hams themselves. It has nothing to do with the ARRL. The ARRL doesn't give a hoot if you operate AM, SSB, CW, Digital, etc., etc. as long as you follow the FCC rules and good amateur practices.

If you want to get more hams into using the AM mode, one needs to develop a rational sales pitch as to why a ham would enjoy the mode over modes such as SSB, FM, pencil tapping, etc. One needs to pitch the communication, technical, efficiency, and fun advantages of using AM over SSB when operating phone. Might be a real challenge.

Or, is the real point of this discussion trying to say, you not a "real" ham or "real" AM'er, unless you're technically astute and build something.

OK .... here's my contribution.

I'm sending Steve 500 power FETs. Suitable for Class E.
Order your boards from his site and have at it !


Who's next ?

 ;)

Or

We should, however, expect a reasonable level of technical skill. Otherwise it's just glorified CB. If we expect NOTHING that's what we'll get. KA-MAWN !

It's safe to say that many view the appliance operating slopbucketeer as something of a pseudo ham.

The transmitter project/kit could become the perfect vehicle for introducing these "pseudo" hams to the technical aspects of the hobby while simultaneously getting them on AM. It could start them on the path to becoming, as Pete said (perhaps sarcastically) "real" hams just as many of us got our first taste of the technical side of the hobby with a DX20 or DX35. 

I'm sure there were some "real" hams back in the 1950's who looked down on Heathkits as "not real building". But the kits eliminated enormous barriers to building & got us hooked. 

The fact that "appliance" radios have gotten so much better (and incredibly cheaper) over the years has nearly eliminated the market for the less expensive homebrew or kit alternative, Elecraft being the lone modern exception. [Consider that a new, do it all, ICOM 706IIG @$900 today is equivalent to $126 in 1960 dollars] Combine these facts with the ever increasing demands on the time of the 21st century adult & it's easy to see why we are where we are. 

The Elecraft model is instructive & should, I think, guide the process. The K-1s & later K-2's , were relatively inexpensive, relatively easy to build, & technically advanced, in some cases far more advanced than their "appliance" competitors. They created excitement in the marketplace &  introduced thousands of hams to the technical side of the hobby just as Heathkit did back in the 50's. 

So if one was to create a relatively inexpensive, relatively easy to build, & technically advanced AM transmitter, it should have the kind of appeal that gets people excited enough to actually build & use it which is, I think, the goal.

That was precisely my point.  Their attitude makes them the biggest obstacle to our crusade simply because of their enormous influence.

>On your last paragraph: I'm not sure what you mean by "let's hook them before we get into technical retraining".

The second biggest obstacle to AM is the ignorance and/or behavior of the slop bucket crowd.  I do not really care how many AMers are out there as long as I can engage in a QSO or roundtable when I get the urge.  The problem is the attitude of the rest of the community and the solution is education, not what kind of rig they use or their technical agility.

Hams need to know that AM is OK and fun and as easy to get on as SSB.  Once that message is understood by all, the slop bucket jammers will lose their audience and find something else to do.

This has got to be our crusade and we can all do our share even if we can't convince the ARRL.

I used to get incensed when a got SSB responses to my AM CQ's but I have since decided that these are great opportunities to sell.  In at least half of these QSO's, the SSBer was more than willing to push a few buttons and get on AM.  And they were all grateful for the discussion and many have shown up down the log on AM.

js

That's an interesting point, John.

Late last year, I called CQ on 3875 AM and Chuck WA4GGL responded!  Now there was a tall ship from the 70s who is no longer active on AM, but he obviously still keeps an ear on things.  We had a great one hour cross-mode chat.

Gentlemen,

First of all I appreciate all the posts, Thank You very much for all the input.

Second i never said anything about a Kit of any kind...my point was a Transmitter walk through, something on the order of 40 watt was the original ideal.

What we take for granted building others may have not the working knowledge, a system that can grow with an inspired beginner...was my thinking...

It was a nice run on postings, it was inspiring......Thank you....

With respect, I will point out that those who pass an amateur exam have, by definition, a reasonable level of technical skill. Frankly, I feel that AM'ers, as a group, have an extraordinary level of technical skill, but I also feel that it's unproductive to expect that newcomers to the mode (or, for that matter, to the hobby) should exhibit the same level that we, as a group, got to by years of operating, building, experimenting, and sharing ideas.

Sixteen-year-old boys don't climb into Peterbuilt trucks the day that they get their Learner's Permit: they start in smaller, safer vehicles and learn by doing - a necessity in driver training and in ham radio, since neither maneuvering in a semi nor in a pileup can be learned from books. Hams have an advantage over truck drivers: we get to build our own "training wheels".

Our hobby, and the AM mode, depends on on steady stream of newcomers, and while we might disagree on just how steep their learning curve should be or how quickly they should be expected to climb it, I thing we'll all agree that we must help them to learn!

Offering some stable, affordable, and easily buildable transmitter designs will give them that help.

73,

Bill, W1AC

I don't think anyone is expecting such.

Good day,

 It's a great idea, it's a positive move, and it's needed...problem is motivation...action...activity in sharing...is it or is it not desirable..I don't know...

It's only a thought till it's shared then it becomes an idea...

Regards potential "profits"....

Trying to turn a profit on a hobby enterprise is a good way to torpedo both, IMHO...

John K5MO

Ya Know,

 I think the time is now,...I'm just gona come straight out with it be honest and tell the truth..like Cagney...

 Who wants to put a team together here on this and get it done..I'll help all i can i have nothing for Plate AM but that's gona change here real soon...We can do it right here for all eyes...This is the AM Forum we Build.......any hands say Aye....

It's just an organizational issue with documentation provided simple...

It's a Simple matter of choice in decision making:

 Step one: Toob or Solid state.
 Step two: Choice of oscillator.
 Step three: Choice of buffer stage.
 Step three: Amplifer package/ Pi network.
 Step four: Modulation, Series or Plate best solution keep it simple.
 Step Five: Power supplies.

 The biggest dilemma What is available in today's supplier houses to get the job done.

 Final Step: build it run it and document it..
 

1. paper or plastic
2. boxers or briefs
3 blond or brunette
4. latex or lamb

it all tastes like chicken whats it matter

I'd vote for both tube and solid state, but when I think about it, I wonder if it's the best way to encourage new AM'ers. Let me think out loud here for a second:

• It would have to be tubes that are still being manufactured or that are/were so common that it's not a problem.
• Could we do an "All American Five" transformerless kind of design to save on cost?
• What power level? If it's pw, it'd have to have at least enough strap to drive a linear. Full "legal" limit? Something in between? All of the above?
• Maybe we could get a list of components that are still available off-the-shelf, and figure a price from that: if a tube design costs too much more than buying a used rig, then that'll work against it.
• We'd need to get have construction details for components that aren't commonly available. Come to think of it,   we'd need to have a list of sources for every component.
• I suppose getting the components is a problem no matter if it's tubes or solid state: I've been trying to find a heat sink for a class E rig for months.
• There have been a lot of FM transceivers retired from commercial service: is there a warehouse full of old motracs somewhere?
• How about old tv receivers? How many old tube receivers are going to be recycled during the HDTV conversion? Probably not a lot, but there'll be a lot of plastic cabinets for cheap ;) .

Well, we'll have to talk about particulars: the idea AFAICS is to have standard designs that most of us on the forum can help with and/or build ourselves. I'm leaning more toward a kit if we do a tube layout. There I go pimping for a kit again.  ;D

FWIW. YMMV.

73, Bill W1AC

If the objective is a moderate to legal-limit output transmitter with (mostly) readily available parts, I think the only answer is the QIX Class E RF amplifier and PWM or Class H modulator and power supply designs.

For low power, a series modulated, hollow state rig is fine, but unless the builder plans to pump it into a linear amplifier, the builder will be quickly discouraged with not being able to be heard during prime time.

Personally, my challenge with building any transmitter isn't understanding the electronics involved.  It's the mechanical aspect of the building process that gives me heartburn.  Seeing step-by-step pictures of a rig being built (like Karl KD3CN has done) is a great help with construction ideas.

The other challenge is tooling.  Some guys don't have access to tools for doing the metalwork necessary for a build.  If a person plans to build just one transmitter, the money spent on tools for the project could exceed the cost of the transmitter itself.  If future building is planned or inspired, it's easier to justify the cost.  Of course, this cost might not even be an issue if they know someone who already has some or all of the necessary tools and skills to help out.

You must want something special?
Some speacial size or something?

Heatsinks are as common as flies....

Just my opinion, but I think Steve is right.  Variety and uniqueness is what makes home-brewing the fun that it is.  If we all had the same TX or RX, there would not be a lot to talk about here, or on the air.

I think a kit is way out of the park.....

Don't get me wrong, nice idea...

But you have to wonder who here, that has the expertise to pull it off.....
Has the time it would take to coordinate it?



A real good compromise is this....

Since high power class-e aspect is pretty much covered,
And there is a forum available for questions regarding building the transmitters.



I think it was HUZ, that said "a well documented project would be a good idea."

Take any of the tube transmitter schematics that are in the files section here, as WD8BIL posted earlier in this thread... like K1ETP's 'cake-pan'.....

And write a bit on how you would go about assembling, and testing........

Just DOCUMENT something that is already designed.
That alone would take a good writer a fair amount of time!

Any of those would probably be a good candidate, if it looks like  the components have decent availability, or replacement possibilities.

Hi Guys,

These discussions are great, the thinking is positive, you put yourself in the other guys seat that never built a thing, has an idea but never tried...likes what he or she sees on this forum here's on the air, looks on this forum for help..just in the last few postings here there's a lesson.

 There is no one rig that answers all the questions, all the ideas are good, everything in context...the idea is to stir interest..stir up discussion..pick a rig and let's tear it apart...one looks at some of these dimensional drawings on here and there's a alot of small important bits missing...even a discussion on a decent power supply is missing on here that wud fit some of the piss weak rigs...that's one basic building block that's needs attention...sorely...


It doesn't matter to me, I've built my share down through the years, the idea is in the sharing of technique...

In my opinion, acquiring and working with an existing piece of gear remains the most practical way of bringing a new person into the AM Community, if that's a goal of Jack's posting about "why isn't there one transmitter localized on the forum here as a flagship." (is there another point to having a "flagship" transmitter, Jack?)

And I know that Jack was not envisioning a kit, even though that's where this discussion has taken us, so I'll comment --

People have a lot going on and a "kit" takes time to organize.

One example:

QIX's MOSFET project seems to typically involve a lot of follow-up and hand-holding despite the reputed simplicity of the circuit. Unless he is available to talk people through the troubleshooting, someone trying to build one without full documentation or experience would more likely let the whole project languish, unfinished, and the person themselves would possibly be turned off from participating with us.

I know Steve has been asked, in the past, to consider coming up with a standardized manufacturing process which could yield some board designs and hardware to allow people to connect-the-dots. This was, in turn, a potential article in one of the mainstream ham magazines.

Neither panned out, and it's probably a result of the amount of time it would have taken to follow through. I don't see any additional details to change the status of that, from his posting in this thread.

So if the idea is to offer someone a "walk through," then we are left with the existing database for vintage transmitters, or the more fully available kits using contemporary components.

Perhaps amfone.net could team up for the further development of the K7DYY transmitter and the "AM Max III."  Each is a potential alternative for a hands-on project that people can have the confidence and determination to complete. This website could provide a form of marketing and visibility, along with technical discussion (if not support, which should come from the vendor).

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http://k7dyy.com/ (http://k7dyy.com/)
Circuit boards will be available for $50.00 plus shipping for those who wish to build their own. No kits will be available. The BOM will identify vendors for the parts.

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http://www.pcs-electronics.com/am-max-ii-dsp-am-transmitter-p-244.html (http://www.pcs-electronics.com/am-max-ii-dsp-am-transmitter-p-244.html)
(http://www.pcs-electronics.com/images/products/amtransmitters/am_am2_1_b.jpg)

Well Done Paul,

 I've been giving that Class D system a long look, it's cheaper than buying a Flex..LOL...

 I wanted to see where a discussion like this would go, what it would bring out, and how it would end up. It is interesting you have to admit...

Ya, good thread.

I constantly struggle with how to respond to people I work on AM where they've come in for the first time or whatever, and want a big sound and a big signal.

A packaged design or other standardized process would help, but as many have pointed out, we are far from one-size-fits-all, and really shouldn't be.

So my answer, when someone wants to know how to "really get into AM," will be from where I'm already at.

I considered the K7DYY transmitter, but I do not have the skill set to build the kit form due to the SMDs.  I may be wrong, but I think any inexperienced builder would be similarly put off.

At the risk of repeating myself, this discussion needs to focus on one issue and deal with it.  As I see it there are at least 3 here that don’t have much to do with each other.

1.  How to get hams interested in AM
2.  How to get hams interested in home brewing
3.  What sort of rig should they use, buy or build.

1.…. To get hams interested in AM, we need to sell it, using all the marketing strategies one uses to sell any idea.   This is actually the easiest issue to deal with as it only takes words.

2.…. Getting hams interested in home brewing is like finding a husband for your ugly daughter.  Just ponder the 50 years or more of handbooks with thousands of well documented articles on transmitter projects.  What has been the result?  Hams buy rice boxes as fast as manufacturers can produce them.  One is born with the interest to build things.  I do not believe one can force feed this attitude.

3.… To be consistent with (1) they should start with whatever they have that produces AM.  As they have no idea of what they sound like and little idea of what AM sounds like on a rice box, the receiver might me more important than the transmitter.  What is the point is telling them how great AM sounds if it sounds like SSB?  But that is getting off the subject. 

As the subject seems to address #3, I suggest starting new threads if anyone is interested in  the other two.

Jack K9ACT

Jack,

I'd like to comment on a couple of your points with my 2 cents.

Point 1 - In my opinion, the selling of AM is best done by those who are transmitting AM.  That's how people get drawn in.  That includes both current licensees and SWLs.  Hearing the AMers on 75 meters is what got me drawn into this hobby almost 30 years ago.  That's how folks get drawn into nets on other modes, too.  Therefore, I submit that this point is already being done.  Of course, this needs to be kept in mind when we conduct ourselves on the air!

Point 3 - Yes, it's true that most will start out with whatever they already have, but I think ZLR's intention was to provide guidance for those already interested to take it to the next level.

I didn't explain myself very well: I've been looking in the recycling bins at local drop-off centers, with no success. In other words, they're not recycled very often in my town.

Bill, W1AC

Well, in your defense...
You DID say "looking"... and not "shopping"!!

;-)

If you know a ham who's in the advertising business, please ask him to get involved: I've done publicity campaigns for non-profits before, and it's a surprisingly thorny problem.


With respect, I'll differ with you here. I think new hams rise to the level of the group they're in, and if they are introduced to an environment where building is the norm, they'll be willing to take on the challenge. I don't think we can force a new ham to learn everything needed to build a transmitter from scratch, but that has always been true: newcomers need a helping hand and some Elmers who can reassure them that they're not going to be stuck with several hundred dollars worth of parts and nobody to ask questions of.

Support covers a lot of bases: I'm not saying we should produce a pre-cut chassis, but small things such as offering to bring a set of hole punches to a hamfest so a builder can do it there, or contributing old SO-239's &c to a common pool of parts, or loaning out a nibbling tool, would go a long way toward taking the anxiety out of a project. The most important base is at the start: we need to show newcomers that it can be done. Publishing photos and schematics of homebrew rigs, with commentary and tips and an explanation of the reasons for a certain layout, is a tremendous aide to a newbie.

Our challenge is not to promote any one design, but rather to offer the support and encouragement that all young hams need when taking on a transmitter project. We might not able to give talks at every club meeting, but we can have construction workshops at hamfests, and provide a lot of the knowledge and support via the forum.


You're right about that: whatever they have is what we need to encourage. But if they don't have anything, then we need to recommend a path they can follow. That leads to the "Flagship" design idea, and I think we should offer such designs.

73, Bill W1AC

Gentlemen,

 All good replies, ya know for a little idea, this thing has better than 1200 views, heck we're on the fourth page with this..I didn't think this thing would go this far But I AM Very Thankful...... It shows interest...Excellent...

 It's hard to reply to all at once so I will agree, Yes, maybe this is to early, better focusing is in order, Yes, Help when needed, Yes..when a question comes in jump on it...I support what is being said...but in the mean time I am going to work on a small project and bring it in as well others who feel the same that would aid in this, do the same, over a period of time it might lead to a final outcome that would satisfy this interest.....Post heartily....What say...The thought grows with production...

Alot of things are in order, looking down through AM Handbook on site...maybe time to start looking through and fill in some of the empty holes take some of those postings and expand...bring More in...

 And the New Guys out There...Get in here and Ask away...Please Do.......Join the Forum .... That's what this is here For....

Ok, this is my opinion, like all free advise worth what it costs.

A simple transmitter, easy to build, and understand the basic concepts would probably get people into building.

Look at  QRP the other aspect of the hobby where people routinely homebrew everything.  Start with something simple like a PIXIE CW transmitter, two transistors and an IC audio amp.  Easy to build trouble-shoot and you can make contacts with it. It's not a great rig, actaully it's not even a good rig, but it gets you started. Gives confidence and then you can make changes and experiment (which is where you will get people hooked).

Remember the simple novice kits of the 'old days' they weren't great rigs, they were designed to get you started.

A place to find details about such a simple AM rig, and get help, no matter how "Stupid" your question is patient mentoring will build a life long ham.

As far as generating a kit,  don't.  Get a real Solid state AM rig that would put out say 50 watts.  Solid state with modern components. Generate a Parts list that would be accepted by MOUSER (you can upload your bill of materials to their site direct for ordering parts) and they will pick and ship your "KIT".   

Put the schematic, building directions, and the parts list on a web page.  The builder copies the parts list, orders the parts, and prints the BD and schema.  Very low investment, and I doubt you could make it any easier to get started.

  " I can't find the thread that started this so I am starting a new one.  "

Here it is .... ..            klc

Welp... OK....Now... define "sponsored".

Day 2 !

It's difficult to be a sponsor when ya don't know what's involved in sponsoring !

Hey
I just packed up a 120 watt modulator that I'm not using and am shipping it to Grant, KG4RJF. He in turn is giving it to his Elmer who has been off AM for many moons. If someone needs parts and you have a crap load like me just send them over. People turn me on to radios being scrapped and offered up for use all the time. My standing philosophy is that "If You Are Going To Make AM, You are Welcome to the Part!". Over the years I figure I have added parts to many rigs and will continue to do so. I don't think it's possible to pick one way to do it and promote that way. I'm a tube guy, when I run into other tube guys I can communicate directly easily to them. That does not mean I have no understanding of Class E or D. I just prefer Glass-FET's. But if a AM'er tells me he needs a heat sink or a 2:1 Line voltage transformer of 2 KVA, I'll look around and probably find it. If it's a pricy thing at a local surplus store I find the intended recipiant is always more than willing to pay the cost and shipping to get said wonder-item. In conclusion, pay attention to the "Wanted" list on this site and get on the air (3890 is nice) and walk the walk. There is no point in being buried with all this stuff. If some newbie remembers me or Timmy or Brent because we helped them, that's a good thing. It's just the right thing for us to do. So next time someone asks "Where do I get a plate choke for 813's? Just remember, You don't really need 10 spares.
"AM is a Way of Life" (WA1HLR)
Keith
WA1HZK

  "  Just remember, You don't really need 10 spares. "

Yup, yer rite..  But,

 If you have one, you need two so that if #1 craps out, you have a spare. But If #1 busts, now, number #2 becomes number #1 , so you need another, i.e. #3 which will then become #2. This is OK if nothing goes wrong. But, if there's a crap out, you now have the problem of " Which one is broken? ". Just because #1 is not working, Is it really busted? Well you have 2 left to check it against. But What if #2 and #3 don't measure the same? How do you know if They are gud, or which one is gud? And even if they measure the same, how do you know that they aren't busted, and #1 is actually OK? Well you need #4 to cover the above conditions. So, say you replace #1 and the devise works OK. Your back to only have 3 working units;  back in the shytie creek again. This proves that you need #5 to be safe. This will give you 1 working unit and the  necessary back up to be safe. So the 5 units are really only 2. Now, if you want redundency, you really should have more than the bare minimun of 5. But certaintly not 10, as that would be greedy.

klc

Exactly !

Since we have about 25 of every item, that should not be a problem.
:)

Ok...  .  now it's day 5 and still no definition.
Just what did you mean when you proposed we "sponsor" something ??
What's been done on this ?? Progress report please !!!

I think a sponsor is the guy who takes you to the meetings.... ..     klc

Those meetings are for alcoholics not drunks !