Want to Buy a Pick-Up Truck - need opinions

[KB2WIG]

Thats where the money is.. the add ons. the bigest rip off is undercoating. ....   if you don't haul alot, get a beater p/u, stick a few $ and run it into the gnd...  probably the cheepisst way

My 94 Ranger 4X4 w/ 150K miles gets 20+ miles on the road. I got 120k miles on the front brakes too...

Must have AC though... helps with global warming...

[Bill, KD0HG]

Tom, regardless of the brand, the price and dealer markups for the larger cab trucks is way more than the standard cab one. Hardly anyone wants a regular cab pickup any more and the price is reflected in the used trucks as well.

Yes, 4x4 is nice, but there is that fuel penalty for carrying all that extra weight around. Also, the 4x4s are higher, and they're more of a PITA to load and unload cargo into...Anyone who's loaded 40 bales of hay into a truck will tell you that makes a difference.

Keep focused on what you want the truck for. I never liked the Ford and Chevy 'criss-cross' SUV-pickups like the Avalanche, you can't really use them to haul big stuff, they're way tall, they suck fuel and they have less interior room than a real SUV, the bottom line is there's compromises in that approach, they play neither role well IMO.

The markups on pickups is huge. If you want a plain Jane economical 2x4 work truck with a 6 cyl that easily gets over 20 MPG, then talk to the FLEET guys at the big dealers. They're the ones that have the white standard-cab pickups stashed by the hundreds at off-site lots. Otherwise, they're going to try sticking you with a pimped-out high profit cowboy Cadillac.
I went that route last year when buying a 1-ton van for the office. I ended up getting a 2005 white, 1-ton DIESEL Ford F-350 van for about $24,000. Way below the sticker. Had to drive across the state to pick it up, no big deal.

The FLEET guys have access to *every* truck in your region. You tell them what you want, and what you want to pay and they'll find it for you. You don't have to take one off the dealer's lot. They all share the inventory. They'd much rather sell you one they have, but be a jerk and say no.

Buddly is right, the 6-bangers are torque monsters for their size. Go to the manufacturers web sites and look at the towing specs for the different sized engines, you'll be surprised what they can do.

As a point of interest, the 3/4 ton turbo diesel pickups get astonishing mileage, easily 40%-50% better than an equivalent gasser. My 2002 with a 7.3L diesel gets up to 23 MPG on the road, something like 18 around town. Smokes the tires from a standing start (<15-seconds, 90+ MPH in the 1/4 mile) and can pull a house off the foundation. The Chevys and Dodges can do even better. That's an 8,800 pound 4x4 with an extended cab, yet. BUT you can't get a diesel 1/2 ton truck just yet, and I don't think you want a 3/4 ton truck anyway.


Back to work... ;-)

.

[W1RKW]

My two cents on type of tranny.  I've always preferred a manual.  Never owned a vehicle with a slushbox. Been driving manuals since day one.  When I went looking for a pickup when I moved out here it had to have a stick.  My thinking is  a manual tranny will last longer than an auto, less to go wrong.  I've hit 192Kmiles recently on the Ranger and the gearbox is still going strong despite running it dry last year plus I still have the original clutch. If you use a clutch right it should last a very long time.   

My last car had a 5 speed manual and I traded it in with 310Kmiles and never had a problem with the gearbox. I did replace the clutch at 240Kmiles when throwout bearing crapped out. 

Other than the inconvenience of having to use a clutch pedal I think longevity-wise it's the better choice.  Just my 2 cents.

[wa1knx]

Hi Tom,
       I've owned 2 fords 150's. one was a plow truck, lots of problems but
a good workhorse. used to plow a few driveways for $$. second one was
the green one you drove. brand new and lots of problems, sold it less than
a year. I've owned 2 chevies, much better luck with them. but all the big
boys suck gas. I've owned 2 toyotas, fantastic reliabliity, well over 150k
each, and i'm driving my second one still, a 1998 hitting 160k now!
its 4x4, manual and will do 26 highways, 22 around town. you'll regret
not getting 4x4, you will get stuck all the time w/o it!

D

[WA1GFZ]

I've had 3 trucks all two leggers and only got stuck once in the woods.
We don't get enough snow to need it here in Ct.

[W1RKW]

In my younger days when I was a ski hound I always cracked up at the 4WD'ers I'd see layin' in a ditch on I-91 when heading upto the northern New England country.  Must have been southern New England folks. 

[Bill, KD0HG]

Most of the vehicles you see rolled or in the ditch around here in the winter aren't cars, or 2WD pickups.  It's 4x4 SUVs. By far.

Gotta remember yer basic math:
4 x 0 (traction on ice) =  0 (traction)

[K1JJ]

Frank, do you carry extra weight in the rear for Winter?  (I'm talking about your 2W truck)

Speaking of going off the road -  Frank, you know Bob - N1KW. One time he went off the road into a big ditch in the snow. The highway guy that stopped told him he's call a tow truck. Bob told him to hold on while he put on his tire chains. Bob was able to claw his way out with those chains on. I guess they are illegal for passenger vehicles these days, as I never hear them except on snowplow trucks. Or maybe people are too lazy to go to the trouble.

BTW, my last two 4X4 Blazers were the worst for traction. Every time I'd get stuck only one wheel would turn - the one that had the worst traction.   I thought it was a fluke with my full-size '75 Blazer and couldn't believe it when the S-10 '86 did it years later.  Next time I buy a 4X4 you can be sure I will verify this.

T

[w3jn]

When I see what I like, I'll tell 'em I want a 30% discount cuz I know W3JN.

T

Lemme know if it works and I'll use it too 

I prefer a manual tranny.  My '94 Chev 1/2 ton club cab 4X4 5 speed has 230,000 with the original clutch.  The tranny's starting to growl a bit in 3rd and Reverse, but that truck has been basically trouble-free for almost 100K.  New brake line and a new fuel pump is all.  Anyway, a cooworker has a '96 automatic 4X4 that only gets about 15 highway... I think manual trannies are the way to go fuel-economy wise.

Chevies are well-known for going thru fuel pumps.  About a $600 job, but lore has it if you make sure and keep the tank at least 1/4 full they'll last a lot longer due to the fuel keeping them cool.

That truck gets about 18 hiway.  Unless you're trying to follow K1KV in his Audi from Hosstraders, that is, in which case you have the footfeed glued to the floor the whole way!

One thing I *really* dislike about newer 4X4s is the stupid "push button" transfer case everyone else seems to love.  I once rented a Chevy Suburban with one of those and the first time I pushed it the button went thru the dashboard.  Never had that problem with a lever-operated transfer case.  I also like having low range - good for pulling out small trees.

4WD might make the difference in being able to get out or get home in an emergency during a snow storm.... something you certainly want to think about.  But there's certainly a price up front premium as well as a mileage penalty.


73 John

[W1RKW]

Frank, do you carry extra weight in the rear for Winter?  (I'm talking about your 2W truck)

I put about 1/2 load of firewood in the back during the winter. I figure it's between 200 and 300lbs. Helps big time. I wouldn't be able to get up the hill on Rt16 if I didn't.  When it's freezing out I add a little extra weight by hosing them down.  Locks 'em in place and keeps them from shifting around.

[Bill, KD0HG]

BTW, my last two 4X4 Blazers were the worst for traction. Every time I'd get stuck only one wheel would turn - the one that had the worst traction.   I thought it was a fluke with my full-size '75 Blazer and couldn't believe it when the S-10 '86 did it years later.  Next time I buy a 4X4 you can be sure I will verify this.

T

Heck, I've had that happen to me a bunch of times in Ford and Chev 4x4s.

That's because of your open axles. There's no way around it except for lockers in the front and/or rear. The limited-slips they sell as a factory option are next to worthless.

I do some extreme off-roading to get to mountain top FM towers and I put electric engaged lockers in my pickup. Incredible difference, put 500 lbs in the bed and nothing can stop you. Not knee-deep snow. Not wheel deep mud. Nothing. Until you get high-centered on the axles and the tires get lifted too much.
But I absolutely can't drive the thing on the pavement with the lockers engaged. It's impossible to turn when both front wheels are locked together. I forgot to disengage them once and had to cut around 4 lanes of traffic to get around a corner to safely pull off the street. And they won't disengage under load. Off-road use only!

..

[K1JJ]

But I absolutely can't drive the thing on the pavement with the lockers engaged. It's impossible to turn when both front wheels are locked together. I forgot to disengage them once and had to cut around 4 lanes of traffic to get around a corner to safely pull off the street. And they won't disengage under load. Off-road use only!

That's pretty funny. 

So that's why the wheels slip w/o the locks.

John/JN: Now Bill/KV gots a Charger Hemi. You'd need to be on the bottle (nitros) to keep up now...      I remember that cruise and you were to the floor for miles at a time with that big truck.

T

[LURD]

Hello Tom and Others,
     The reason that you can't find a diesel in 1/2 ton, is that they put out so much torque that they break the lighter duty parts. I do get great gas milage though.
     Even though they are noisey, the cabs have extra insulation in them, so that you don't hear the engine. And my wife likes the way the seat vibrates!
     The nice thing about the noisey diesels, is when you pull up to a traffic light, and some guy is trying to listen to his rap music, he cant! Usally he will give you the finger.
     It takes a real man to own a diesel!

Best Regards,

LURD

[W1UJR]

Honda and Toyota are the tops in customer satisfaction and quality AND value.

Once the makers of small and tinny trucks, Honda and Toyota have overtaken the domestic car biz, to borrow a K1JJ phrase, they have "leapfrogged" Ford and GM, and now make full size, solid truck.
The Honda Ridgeline was Motor Trends 2006 Truck of the Year!

I own a European car store and I'd even buy a Jap truck, they are that good!

See the Honda Ridgeline http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Ridgeline



and

The Toytota Tundra http://www.toyota.com/tundra/index.html?s_van=GM_TN_TUNDRA_INDEX




My pick is for the Hionda, hands down!

See u at at Boxboro!

-Bruce

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Maybe they've improved, but my experience with diesels, specifically GMC, are that they suck in cold WX. Hard to start and not worth the trouble. My experience is over 10 years old though.

[K1JJ]

Maybe they've improved, but my experience with diesels, specifically GMC, are that they suck in cold WX. Hard to start and not worth the trouble. My experience is over 10 years old though.

Ten years ago? That was before the aliens gave the new diesel technology to Vin Diesel who then improved the engine markedly.  Modern alien diesels run as smooth as this pitch.

T

[Bill, KD0HG]

Maybe they've improved, but my experience with diesels, specifically GMC, are that they suck in cold WX. Hard to start and not worth the trouble. My experience is over 10 years old though.

Steve, that's not the current case. Those old GM diesels were complete turds. They gave diesels a black eye for years.

One thing I really like is I can and do frequently run my truck on alternative fuels, without any modifications. I do need to pay attention to the fuel filters, and that's about it.
I'm paying 39 cents a gallon less for locally produced biodiesel fuel refined from used restaurant fry oil in the Denver area. Truck runs just great on the stuff, the exhaust smells like a Chinese restaurant, no smoke at all. I toss everything from straight Mazola to (diluted) bacon grease in the tank. My Sam's Club sells generic canola or soy cooking oil in 5-gallon buckets for less then the pump price for diesel fuel at local filling stations. I *should* offer to pay fuel taxes to the state and the feds on the cooking oil I use on the highway, but I'm such a sleazebag, you know...
Most locales in Colorado don't have a sales tax on foodstuffs, either.
I've run my truck on everything from cooking oil to kerosene to used ATF, even water-contaminated Jet A drained out of airplane tanks.

This is all nothing new. The inventor, Rudolph Diesel, designed and ran his engine on peanut oil, that was in the late 1800s before there was a worldwide fossil petroleum industry developed. We're sorta going full circle now.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Very coo, Bill. And good to hear. That alien tech works!!!

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Toiletota's quality might not be as good as you think. They recalled almost 2.5 million cars last year.

[WD8BIL]

AS for 2x4 vs. 4x4.... here's our "poor man's" solution in Ohio !

CHAINS.

[W1RKW]

Toiletota's quality might not be as good as you think. They recalled almost 2.5 million cars last year.

Cars or trucks?

Update: looks like they had a recall on cars and trucks according to MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7887155/

[2ZE]

One thing I really like is I can and do frequently run my truck on alternative fuels, without any modifications

Very cool, Bill.
Thats about the only thing I like about my Ford, is it is E85 ready from the factory, as all Fords are. The only problem is E85 isn't available here for sale in NY
Farmers are leaving corn out to rot here because they can't get a decent price for it at harvest time, but no ethanol plants to process it.
I say time for more alternative fuels, and less to arab nations that don't like us anyway.

[Bill, KD0HG]

Mike: I had a long talk about E85 only yesterday at the dealer that I buy my biodiesel fuel at. It started by my asking him when he was going to start carrying it.

He's got some concerns about it...Since ethanol has only 62% of the BTUs/gallon that gasoline does, it should be priced accordingly. But it's not, it costs close to gasoline, the only reason it's priced somewhat less in the midwest is they give it state tax breaks in those areas like IL, WI, MN, and Iowa. So his opinion is that the public isn't going to go for a fuel that only takes you 62% as far for virtually the same price so he doesn't want to invest in the tanks and pumps needed to sell it.

Ethanol *could* be substantially cheaper than gasoline, but the American agriculture lobby has insured that large tariffs are put on Brazilian sugar cane, which is the source of the reasonably-priced ethanol there. So we can't import from there, we have to rely on higher-priced midwest corn alcohol. As he put it, all we're doing is trading being ripped off by BP and Exxon to being ripped off by Archer-Daniels-Midland.

Of course, it's a moot point if Iran starts passing nukes around.

On a personal level, I don't mind paying a few percent more for a domestically-produced fuel rather than sending my money to those freaks in the middle east, Nigeria and Venezuela.  And I think that many others feel the same way. So maybe that will push the price equation a little, but a 37% premium per mile is a bit much, in his opinion.

[W1RKW]

He's got some concerns about it...Since ethanol has only 62% of the BTUs/gallon that gasoline does, it should be priced accordingly. But it's not, it costs close to gasoline, the only reason it's priced somewhat less in the midwest is they give it state tax breaks in those areas like IL, WI, MN, and Iowa. So his opinion is that the public isn't going to go for a fuel that only takes you 62% as far for virtually the same price so he doesn't want to invest in the tanks and pumps needed to sell it.

Is the 62% BTU/gal issue valid though?  The reason I ask is the Indy racing community runs ethanol (or was it methanol) in their race cars and they're getting over 800HP from their engines.  Maybe it's not efficient as far as mileage goes.  Don't know.  Just throwing something out here on the table.

[KB2WIG]

it doesn't have the same energy level by volume.,; need more gal to go as far.....  gasoline is about 20,200 Btu per Lbs  vs   9,770 Btu per lbs (methanol).....   Ethl has 12,700 btu per pound   ..but it is a sin to burn it in a metal engine     klc