The AM Forum

Hola,

I'm ready to plunk down up to $15K for a used pick-up truck. I've looked on the web and cannot really decide where to start. It seems that owners only give great reviews of their own stuff.

I understand that Toyota makes a real dependable truck. Then there's the old F-150 standby, Dodge Ram, etc. There's so many.

I want an automatic, probably 2 wheel drive - 4X4 not necessary. Six cylinder is enuff power, air, hitch. No bell and whistles needed. Hopefully less than 50K miles.  Black, blue or silver color. Bedliner desirable. Manual windows OK. Year 2000 or newer.

Any opinions on what might fill the bill?   I'm ready to buy something today if I found it. My old '86 Blazer is knocking and slipping - only good for pulling up antennas now.

73,
T

Tom.... I am partial to Ford but...

The F150 or GM 1500 series 1/2 tons are great trucks. If you can find one with an INLINE 6 go for it.
For a small series truck there's none better than the Ranger !! 2.3L 4cyl best with a standard tranny.

This one is great on gas:

(http://k43.pbase.com/u15/2112/upload/42016185.Image4.jpg)

Or how about these accessories:

(http://www.unforgottencards.com/images/large/greeting_cards/01490BDA_LRG.jpg)

My humor for the day. I know zip about trucks.

Hi Tom-

You know how it is with opinions but you asked. Apply the same caveats used in the JN receiver guide.

 It really depends on what you need a truck to do, haul large heavy materials and tools all week or cart you to the office then take a couple cans of trash to the dump on weekends. These days I'm driving a 10 year old F-150 that I bought 6 years ago. I use it to haul materials and finished cabinets that I build in my shop so it's either completely empty or very full. Prior to this one I drove a D-250, that I bought new, for 16 years. I find a full sized truck with an 8 foot bed the most usefull for my needs. Both the Dodge and the Ford are stripped down work trucks and both have been fairly dependable. I'm sure that I could get the same service from a Chevy. If you don't need a full sized truck it's really hard to beat the Toyota for mechanical dependability but I don't think that they will stand up to hard use day in and day out over the long haul. I know of a couple used in construction that are less than 10 years old with broken frames. I also know of more than one Ford Ranger that has lasted over 300,000 miles. 

You may find some of the information on this site useful

http://www.edmunds.com/

Paul

Best small truck Ford Ranger/Mazda B series. I have 235,000 on mine & it burns zero oil. It has the 4.0 V-6 & 4WD, 5 speed.

Best full-size truck I've owend. - Chevy Silverado. Drove  like a Caddy & hauled what I  needed it to.

I currently have an 97' F-250 diesel that I don't particulary care for.

I've owned the Toyota small truck (1992 I think) & it was junk. All kinds of engine & tranny (auto) problems.

My 2 cents.

Terry
W8EJO
 

Make sure that you get one with the split rear window option. Nothing looks a bad as having to stick your arm out and tossing over your shoulder.  With the split window, you just toss the empties strait back...  klc

Tom,
Yup my silverado rids like a caddy and gets about 20 MPG on a trip with a 5.3 V8.
My OM bought a 4 cl rice box last year for about 6K and is thinking of selling it for 5K.
He put some bucks into it also. It runs good and is 4 wheel drive. The only reason he is selling it is because he doesn't use it and has 2 sons and a daughter with trucks and he enjoys being boss. He got P.O. when he got the bill for registration and figures it isn't worth $150 to sit in the yard.

Tom, get a full sized American truck.
You're not going to believe how badly you're going to want more space after driving a compact truck for a while. My first pickup was a compact and while it was a fine, reliable ride, I was *so* glad to trade it for a much roomier full size truck in 2000.

There are so many used pickups available that you can get a heck of a deal on a fairly new Ford or Chevy. There's some real benefits to buying a vehicle that they sell millions of every year. Need a replacement part or some glass? As close as the nearest boneyard. The biggest difference between the late model Fords and GMs for me is that the Fords are generally easier to work on yourself, easier to wrench on the engine and do routine maintenance on. Another advantage of a full-size truck is that they aren't so darn cramped under the hood.

Go to edmunds.com and you'll see what sort of $$ you're talking about. I just did a quick look-up on 2002 Ford F-150s in my area and found a 2WD with a bulletproof 4.2L 6 for ~ $7,000.  It'll last you forever and get you well over 20 MPG.

..

I see guys talkin' up the Ford Ranger. I have a '99 Ranger that has been nothin but TROUBLE!
130,000 miles and here is a list of repairs so far:
new motor 3.0L V6
new rear end
new radiator
3 wheel bearings
vacuum modulator in transmission

minus all the regular maintenece ( brakes, exhaust, tires, ball joints, tune-ups, etc...), this thing has been nothing short of a money pit.

The best part about driving a full-sized American pickup truck is you can install a pair of THESE:

My brother in Law has a F150 and hates it. He had nothing but problems. He couldn't sell it for a good price so he is driving it into the ground as a work beater. I think it is a 2000.
My 2001 Silverado has almost 80 K and all I've done is replace the tires once. I run mobile 1 and change it when it tells me to. I'm thinking of a new battery
just due to age for the winter.
The only thing I don't like about it is sleeping in it at hostraders is a real pita.
Seat belt brackets are kidney killers. I need a cap for it.
I load the family twice a week and go down the road 80 no problem.
Motor starts making real torque around 2K RPM at 77 MHP with 4 speed overdrive auto.
My 88 3/4 ton Chevy was great truck and much better for sleeping. That one was rear ended so lost its life at 145K.
The best sleeper of all was my homebrew 72 1 ton with a built 350 fuelie cam and 411 gears. Some of you guys remenber the Jethro mobile with oak flat bed.
That had a bed for front seat. It coult take a stock vet off the line which was very fun.
Tom I've tried to buy a good used truck twice and setteled for new because a good used one will cost you too much. i bet there are some real deals out there.
Dana Chev/WV in Northanpton Ma. is by far the best dealer I've ever done business with.

...Or one of THESE

Thanks for the info so far, guys.

Bill, that appears to be good advice.

I do like the idea of a popular full-sized pickup model for all the reasons you mentioned. Plus the price seems FB.  The Silverado seems to be well liked as Frank says too. Though they are a premium model costing more, like about $22K new - maybe a few years used will do the trick.

My '86 Blazer had less than 4' width in the rear cargo and I had trouble loading 4X8 plywood, etc, so I know the story there.

The only thing that bothers me about the full-sized is the gas milage of a bigger truck. Not sure if a straight six as Buddly suggests will pull my 1000 pound cargo trailer. My V6 Blazer really struggled with it up the hills. 

Well, so far a fulled-sized Chevy truck hasn't gotten beaten up here yet. I see a lot of manual xmissions out there, though I prefer an auto. Gee, it would be so EZ to visit a dealership, though I'm hoping my friend with wholesale connections locally can find something on the auction market. Just gotta tell him what I want...

T

I have a 94 Ranger with the 4.0L V6 with manual 5 speed 2WD with extended cab.  I bought it with 100K miles 4 years ago.  It's payed for itself many times. I've only had one failure where it left me stranded on the side of the road.  An idler pulley died and the serpentine belt burned up so it left me dead on the side of the highway.  Despite that it's been a good vehicle for the most part.  Though I'm not going to recommend it.  I don't know what the newer rangers are like but my 94 has what I consider a weak tranny built by Mazda.  If one is not careful and does not pay attention to maintanance one can easily fry the sucker and never know it until it's too late.  This transmission has a set of rubber plugs in the top of the casing that will harden over time and cause fluid to leak out.  You don't know that it's leaking except maybe for a quarter size spot on the pavement.  While you're driving it's slinging fluid.  While stopped nearly nothing so you don't know.  I ran my tranny dry but fortunately I was in town and was able to bring it to a service station that briefed me on this particular tranny so I 'm careful.  Other than that I'm happy with my ranger.

Bob N9NEO commented on it when he was over a couple of weekend ago and thought it was a 4WD.  It's a tough truck as small trucks go.  I just don't trust the tranny. 

A buddy of mine has a 01 Toyota Tundra with a V8.  Nice truck and he's had zero trouble.  And I like the look of it.  If I could afford it right now I'd buy one myself. If you're looking for a bigger truck the F150 should do you dandy.

Same here, Bob. I bought a Ford Ranger new in '87, put 175,000 uneventful miles on it and sold it to a family friend in 2000. The only major failure that it had was the Mazda (or Mitsubushi) 5-speed tranny which in spite of my doing regular lube changes just wore out.

Tom, the engines in the late-model trucks are a generation ahead of the 80s as far as reliability, power and fuel economy. You just can't compare them. Not at all.

None of them are pieces of junk. There's lemons out there, I've owned lemons made by both Ford and Chevy, but bear in mind they couldn't compete in this marketplace by getting a bad reputation, especially with fleet buyers like utility companies. In the full-size truck area, the differences between late-models are mostly superficial and a matter of personal reference.

..

There's a lemon in every batch I guess Mike. I bought one the first year they were out in '83. Put 280,000 on it then gave it to a farm run by a church with a halfway house. The residents worked the farm for room and board. This last fall we used the old Ranger to haul corn in from the field. It just won't die.

But Bill is right,Tom. Since getting a full size AMERICAN truck I'll never go back to a compact.

I owned one and have worked on more. You can routinely get over 200k miles out of a small Toyota pickup.  IMHO, they are hard to beat.  If I were buying a truck I would buy one in a second.

And spring for 4WD if it's in your price range.  You need it where you're at.  Empty 2WD pickups are EVIL handling in snow and ice.

ANd don't worry about gas mileage.  About $1500 difference over 50000 miles for a 5 MPG improvement.  You can easily chisel this much off the price at the dealer.

Yeah, maybe a 4X4 is a better idea considering the snow here and the light rear end.Though I can't mentally tolerate less than 20 mpg city for any vehicle.

I've been studying the Toyota Tundra full-size  and the Chev Silverado pickup. It seems both NEW 2006 basic models can be had for under $20K. It's 2007 car season coming up so they seem to be slamming the prices.

Tomorrow I'm gonna hit a major dealership complex in Hartford. They have maybe 10 dealerships there of every brand. I'll do some test drives and serious looking at what they have.

When I see what I like, I'll tell 'em I want a 30% discount cuz I know W3JN.

T

Tom said:
Well I guess I might as well throw my $0.50 in here. If it were me, I'd go with the Silverado. You can't beat them for the ride. I used to take mine from here down to southern VA on a regular basis and the ride was just as good if not better than most cars. Unfortunately, I traded it in on my Trailblazer, (straight 6 4.3L). My son grew too big for the back of the cab so I need something with 4 doors. I wanted the Avalanche but settled for the Trailblazer.

The straight six will pull that no problem Tom. They have more low-end torque than a V6.
Both Ford's and Chevy's inlines are built to pull.

Hello Tom and Others,
     Owned alot lot of pickup trucks over the years. In fact while the rest of the kids were driving "hot rods" back in high school, I was driving a PU, and they called me Farmer.
     Never cared much about the make, they all had their good points and bad. What I am driving now is a Dodge Ram, with a Cummings diesel. The bodies are shit, but the Cummings has alot of power, and gets great fuel milige!.

Best Regards,

LURD

Tom,
My new used purchase last year was a 2001 Silverado 1500 4x4 shortbed. The engine is the 327 aluminum block (Vortek) v8....dynos at 297 hp and the tranny's that GM makes are tough as nails. I pull the new boat with it and its still gets 13.7 miles to the gallon....rides great and has the best body lines that chevy ever made. price was 15k..only had 50k on it.

No subsitute for a V8...if your hung on mileage than look at the V6, but I don't know the track record of smaller block.

Brent W1IA

p.s. the boat weighs in at 4000lbs with 700lbs of tongue weight. V6 would crumble under such a load

That is the same thing I have, but mine is 2 wheel drive and I get about 18 around town and almost 20 on the road if I keep my foot out of it. Not a 327 though, 323 I think. It is a new motor like an old Ford Y block. I have extended cab short bed which is great for lugging stuff around. The back seat folds up and can stuff a lot of stuff inside.
The bed is 6 1/2 feet and with the gate down 8 1/2.
My block is iron and heads aluminum...bet Brent's the same.
The V6 in the same truck does the same mileage but works harder.
BTW I forgot just replaced break pads at 77K
The only thing I wish it had was a bigger oil filter but the stock one seems ok.
I also have heavy duty 1/2 ton springs and sway bars.
I just saw a couple nice used trucks Killiam RT140 East Windsor on the ride in. They had a nice GMC and a couple Fords. I saw them on the way to work this morning.
I piad 19.7K new.

Very interestesting info, Frank and Brent and others -

I'm noticing that all the new full-size trucks are below 20 mpg for highway and city. Many of the customer testimonials are saying 13-15 mpg is more like it, esp with 4X4.

I didn't realize that a 4X4 over a 2 wheel drive added about 500 pounds more weight, a higher body for wind resistance, drive train lossses, etc to kill mileage. So it IS a factor.

What I'm trying to decide now is whether to consider a MANUAL transmission or not. There are many out there and cheaper. In this day and age with modern auto transmissions, is there any advantage to using a manual or is it just for preference, for fun? I would like to get some opinions on this. For years I've driven both - from GTO's, VW's. etc, so it would work for me. But for some reason, the thought of a manual xmission in a truck seems like extra work for nothing vs: the sport of having one in a muscle car, etc.

I plan to hit some dealerships today and/or tmw to see if anything hits my fancy.

Another thing I wonder is why not buy an older truck for $5K and put the other $15K into a newer car? The truck is mostly for incidental hauling stuff and I use the current older car much more while the Blazer used to sit.  If I bought a newer truck, I would be psychologically forced to drive it more with it's higher costs....

BTW, what's amamzing me: I am seeing new 2006 basic Silverado's in various car dealers (on the web) for $18K!   The better models with the bigger cabs are $30K+.  The reviews are great.  Maybe I'll stop by a Chevy dealer first.

The Chev Avalance (half SUV and half pickup) is an interesting beast, but is as big as a Suburban. Then the Nissan Titan, Toyota Tundra look appealing. What is surprising is the 2006 Ford F-150's are going for some big money, like $25-30K.  They are an expensive truck when they are 4X4 and loaded.


T

Thats where the money is.. the add ons. the bigest rip off is undercoating. ....   if you don't haul alot, get a beater p/u, stick a few $ and run it into the gnd...  probably the cheepisst way

My 94 Ranger 4X4 w/ 150K miles gets 20+ miles on the road. I got 120k miles on the front brakes too...

Must have AC though... helps with global warming...

Tom, regardless of the brand, the price and dealer markups for the larger cab trucks is way more than the standard cab one. Hardly anyone wants a regular cab pickup any more and the price is reflected in the used trucks as well.

Yes, 4x4 is nice, but there is that fuel penalty for carrying all that extra weight around. Also, the 4x4s are higher, and they're more of a PITA to load and unload cargo into...Anyone who's loaded 40 bales of hay into a truck will tell you that makes a difference.

Keep focused on what you want the truck for. I never liked the Ford and Chevy 'criss-cross' SUV-pickups like the Avalanche, you can't really use them to haul big stuff, they're way tall, they suck fuel and they have less interior room than a real SUV, the bottom line is there's compromises in that approach, they play neither role well IMO.

The markups on pickups is huge. If you want a plain Jane economical 2x4 work truck with a 6 cyl that easily gets over 20 MPG, then talk to the FLEET guys at the big dealers. They're the ones that have the white standard-cab pickups stashed by the hundreds at off-site lots. Otherwise, they're going to try sticking you with a pimped-out high profit cowboy Cadillac.
I went that route last year when buying a 1-ton van for the office. I ended up getting a 2005 white, 1-ton DIESEL Ford F-350 van for about $24,000. Way below the sticker. Had to drive across the state to pick it up, no big deal.

The FLEET guys have access to *every* truck in your region. You tell them what you want, and what you want to pay and they'll find it for you. You don't have to take one off the dealer's lot. They all share the inventory. They'd much rather sell you one they have, but be a jerk and say no.

Buddly is right, the 6-bangers are torque monsters for their size. Go to the manufacturers web sites and look at the towing specs for the different sized engines, you'll be surprised what they can do.

As a point of interest, the 3/4 ton turbo diesel pickups get astonishing mileage, easily 40%-50% better than an equivalent gasser. My 2002 with a 7.3L diesel gets up to 23 MPG on the road, something like 18 around town. Smokes the tires from a standing start (<15-seconds, 90+ MPH in the 1/4 mile) and can pull a house off the foundation. The Chevys and Dodges can do even better. That's an 8,800 pound 4x4 with an extended cab, yet. BUT you can't get a diesel 1/2 ton truck just yet, and I don't think you want a 3/4 ton truck anyway.


Back to work... ;-)

.

My two cents on type of tranny.  I've always preferred a manual.  Never owned a vehicle with a slushbox. Been driving manuals since day one.  When I went looking for a pickup when I moved out here it had to have a stick.  My thinking is  a manual tranny will last longer than an auto, less to go wrong.  I've hit 192Kmiles recently on the Ranger and the gearbox is still going strong despite running it dry last year plus I still have the original clutch. If you use a clutch right it should last a very long time.   

My last car had a 5 speed manual and I traded it in with 310Kmiles and never had a problem with the gearbox. I did replace the clutch at 240Kmiles when throwout bearing crapped out. 

Other than the inconvenience of having to use a clutch pedal I think longevity-wise it's the better choice.  Just my 2 cents.

Hi Tom,
       I've owned 2 fords 150's. one was a plow truck, lots of problems but
a good workhorse. used to plow a few driveways for $$. second one was
the green one you drove. brand new and lots of problems, sold it less than
a year. I've owned 2 chevies, much better luck with them. but all the big
boys suck gas. I've owned 2 toyotas, fantastic reliabliity, well over 150k
each, and i'm driving my second one still, a 1998 hitting 160k now!
its 4x4, manual and will do 26 highways, 22 around town. you'll regret
not getting 4x4, you will get stuck all the time w/o it!

D

I've had 3 trucks all two leggers and only got stuck once in the woods.
We don't get enough snow to need it here in Ct.

In my younger days when I was a ski hound I always cracked up at the 4WD'ers I'd see layin' in a ditch on I-91 when heading upto the northern New England country.  Must have been southern New England folks. 

Most of the vehicles you see rolled or in the ditch around here in the winter aren't cars, or 2WD pickups.  It's 4x4 SUVs. By far.

Gotta remember yer basic math:
4 x 0 (traction on ice) =  0 (traction)

Frank, do you carry extra weight in the rear for Winter?  (I'm talking about your 2W truck)

Speaking of going off the road -  Frank, you know Bob - N1KW. One time he went off the road into a big ditch in the snow. The highway guy that stopped told him he's call a tow truck. Bob told him to hold on while he put on his tire chains. Bob was able to claw his way out with those chains on. I guess they are illegal for passenger vehicles these days, as I never hear them except on snowplow trucks. Or maybe people are too lazy to go to the trouble.

BTW, my last two 4X4 Blazers were the worst for traction. Every time I'd get stuck only one wheel would turn - the one that had the worst traction.   I thought it was a fluke with my full-size '75 Blazer and couldn't believe it when the S-10 '86 did it years later.  Next time I buy a 4X4 you can be sure I will verify this.

T

Lemme know if it works and I'll use it too  ;D

I prefer a manual tranny.  My '94 Chev 1/2 ton club cab 4X4 5 speed has 230,000 with the original clutch.  The tranny's starting to growl a bit in 3rd and Reverse, but that truck has been basically trouble-free for almost 100K.  New brake line and a new fuel pump is all.  Anyway, a cooworker has a '96 automatic 4X4 that only gets about 15 highway... I think manual trannies are the way to go fuel-economy wise.

Chevies are well-known for going thru fuel pumps.  About a $600 job, but lore has it if you make sure and keep the tank at least 1/4 full they'll last a lot longer due to the fuel keeping them cool.

That truck gets about 18 hiway.  Unless you're trying to follow K1KV in his Audi from Hosstraders, that is, in which case you have the footfeed glued to the floor the whole way!

One thing I *really* dislike about newer 4X4s is the stupid "push button" transfer case everyone else seems to love.  I once rented a Chevy Suburban with one of those and the first time I pushed it the button went thru the dashboard.  Never had that problem with a lever-operated transfer case.  I also like having low range - good for pulling out small trees.

4WD might make the difference in being able to get out or get home in an emergency during a snow storm.... something you certainly want to think about.  But there's certainly a price up front premium as well as a mileage penalty.


73 John

I put about 1/2 load of firewood in the back during the winter. I figure it's between 200 and 300lbs. Helps big time. I wouldn't be able to get up the hill on Rt16 if I didn't.  When it's freezing out I add a little extra weight by hosing them down.  Locks 'em in place and keeps them from shifting around.

Heck, I've had that happen to me a bunch of times in Ford and Chev 4x4s.

That's because of your open axles. There's no way around it except for lockers in the front and/or rear. The limited-slips they sell as a factory option are next to worthless.

I do some extreme off-roading to get to mountain top FM towers and I put electric engaged lockers in my pickup. Incredible difference, put 500 lbs in the bed and nothing can stop you. Not knee-deep snow. Not wheel deep mud. Nothing. Until you get high-centered on the axles and the tires get lifted too much.
But I absolutely can't drive the thing on the pavement with the lockers engaged. It's impossible to turn when both front wheels are locked together. I forgot to disengage them once and had to cut around 4 lanes of traffic to get around a corner to safely pull off the street. And they won't disengage under load. Off-road use only!

..

That's pretty funny. 

So that's why the wheels slip w/o the locks.

John/JN: Now Bill/KV gots a Charger Hemi. You'd need to be on the bottle (nitros) to keep up now...  ;D    I remember that cruise and you were to the floor for miles at a time with that big truck.

T

Hello Tom and Others,
     The reason that you can't find a diesel in 1/2 ton, is that they put out so much torque that they break the lighter duty parts. I do get great gas milage though.
     Even though they are noisey, the cabs have extra insulation in them, so that you don't hear the engine. And my wife likes the way the seat vibrates!
     The nice thing about the noisey diesels, is when you pull up to a traffic light, and some guy is trying to listen to his rap music, he cant! Usally he will give you the finger.
     It takes a real man to own a diesel!

Best Regards,

LURD

Honda and Toyota are the tops in customer satisfaction and quality AND value.

Once the makers of small and tinny trucks, Honda and Toyota have overtaken the domestic car biz, to borrow a K1JJ phrase, they have "leapfrogged" Ford and GM, and now make full size, solid truck.
The Honda Ridgeline was Motor Trends 2006 Truck of the Year!

I own a European car store and I'd even buy a Jap truck, they are that good!

See the Honda Ridgeline http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Ridgeline

(http://automobiles.honda.com/images/banners/2007/ridgeline/exterior_gallery/large1.jpg)

and

The Toytota Tundra http://www.toyota.com/tundra/index.html?s_van=GM_TN_TUNDRA_INDEX

(http://www.toyota.com/images/vehicles/2006/tundra/gallery/exterior/photo_1.jpg)


My pick is for the Hionda, hands down!

See u at at Boxboro!

-Bruce

Maybe they've improved, but my experience with diesels, specifically GMC, are that they suck in cold WX. Hard to start and not worth the trouble. My experience is over 10 years old though.

Ten years ago? That was before the aliens gave the new diesel technology to Vin Diesel who then improved the engine markedly.  Modern alien diesels run as smooth as this pitch.

T

Steve, that's not the current case. Those old GM diesels were complete turds. They gave diesels a black eye for years.

One thing I really like is I can and do frequently run my truck on alternative fuels, without any modifications. I do need to pay attention to the fuel filters, and that's about it.
I'm paying 39 cents a gallon less for locally produced biodiesel fuel refined from used restaurant fry oil in the Denver area. Truck runs just great on the stuff, the exhaust smells like a Chinese restaurant, no smoke at all. I toss everything from straight Mazola to (diluted) bacon grease in the tank. My Sam's Club sells generic canola or soy cooking oil in 5-gallon buckets for less then the pump price for diesel fuel at local filling stations. I *should* offer to pay fuel taxes to the state and the feds on the cooking oil I use on the highway, but I'm such a sleazebag, you know...
Most locales in Colorado don't have a sales tax on foodstuffs, either.
I've run my truck on everything from cooking oil to kerosene to used ATF, even water-contaminated Jet A drained out of airplane tanks.

This is all nothing new. The inventor, Rudolph Diesel, designed and ran his engine on peanut oil, that was in the late 1800s before there was a worldwide fossil petroleum industry developed. We're sorta going full circle now.

Very coo, Bill. And good to hear. That alien tech works!!!

Toiletota's quality might not be as good as you think. They recalled almost 2.5 million cars last year.

AS for 2x4 vs. 4x4.... here's our "poor man's" solution in Ohio !

CHAINS.

Cars or trucks?

Update: looks like they had a recall on cars and trucks according to MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7887155/

Very cool, Bill.
Thats about the only thing I like about my Ford, is it is E85 ready from the factory, as all Fords are. The only problem is E85 isn't available here for sale in NY >:(
Farmers are leaving corn out to rot here because they can't get a decent price for it at harvest time, but no ethanol plants to process it.
I say time for more alternative fuels, and less to arab nations that don't like us anyway.

Mike: I had a long talk about E85 only yesterday at the dealer that I buy my biodiesel fuel at. It started by my asking him when he was going to start carrying it.

He's got some concerns about it...Since ethanol has only 62% of the BTUs/gallon that gasoline does, it should be priced accordingly. But it's not, it costs close to gasoline, the only reason it's priced somewhat less in the midwest is they give it state tax breaks in those areas like IL, WI, MN, and Iowa. So his opinion is that the public isn't going to go for a fuel that only takes you 62% as far for virtually the same price so he doesn't want to invest in the tanks and pumps needed to sell it.

Ethanol *could* be substantially cheaper than gasoline, but the American agriculture lobby has insured that large tariffs are put on Brazilian sugar cane, which is the source of the reasonably-priced ethanol there. So we can't import from there, we have to rely on higher-priced midwest corn alcohol. As he put it, all we're doing is trading being ripped off by BP and Exxon to being ripped off by Archer-Daniels-Midland.

Of course, it's a moot point if Iran starts passing nukes around.

On a personal level, I don't mind paying a few percent more for a domestically-produced fuel rather than sending my money to those freaks in the middle east, Nigeria and Venezuela.  And I think that many others feel the same way. So maybe that will push the price equation a little, but a 37% premium per mile is a bit much, in his opinion.

Is the 62% BTU/gal issue valid though?  The reason I ask is the Indy racing community runs ethanol (or was it methanol) in their race cars and they're getting over 800HP from their engines.  Maybe it's not efficient as far as mileage goes.  Don't know.  Just throwing something out here on the table.

it doesn't have the same energy level by volume.,; need more gal to go as far.....  gasoline is about 20,200 Btu per Lbs  vs   9,770 Btu per lbs (methanol).....   Ethl has 12,700 btu per pound   ..but it is a sin to burn it in a metal engine     klc

I can attest to this.  The only fix might be weight int the back, but that can make it just a bigger swinging pendulum.

Yes, it's unfortunately true. Your mileage will go way down on ethanol. Ethanol has an outrageously high octane rating of around 120. Won't detonate  And its combustion temperatures are lower. You can get some serious power out of it, but you have to jet the carb richer like flushing a toilet.
That's the main reason they use it in racing cars. It also pollutes less than gasoline, but I don't think that matters on the track ;-)

Another downside to ethanol that no one seems to want to talk about it its bad effects on the carbs of older vehicles not designed for it. Alcohol can be highly corrosive, in part because of its affinity for water. They've been selling 10% gasohol around the Denver area for several years. I've had to rebuild the carbs on all of the small gasoline engines I own. Rototiller, generator and lawn mower. Symptoms are always the same, they start flooding out because the needle valve attached to the carb float won't close. Open the carb up and there's this nasty white corrosion and goo all over any dissimilar metal in contact, like a steel needle valve on a brass valve seat.

That's not gonna be an issue with vehicles designed for E85, but ethanol is nasty, nasty stuff in older fuel systems that sit unused for a while.

What the automatic has over a manual transmission in a truck is a torque converter.  So many think of an automatic in terms of just no clutch and no shifting, but the added torque you get on takeoff from an automatic makes them the choice for hauling, towing, and plowing.  If that is what you need.

No doubt.  So many SUV drivers who do not know better are sold on the 4wd and it gives them insane levels of bravado on roads where caution should be considered.

Yes, Bill, there are certain disadvantages to E85. However, anything that kicks our dependancy of foreign oil is a plus in my book. USA currently produces about 31% of the oil that it uses, that means we import the rest. In a post 9/11 world, that doesn't make us any safer if we have to depend on oil from nations like Iran, Nigeria and Venezuela. Anytime the leaders of these nations, especially Venezuela ( Hugo Chavez ), see's the price of crude dropping, all he has to do is rattle his saber and say something like " the US is going to invade us" or whatever, crude oil futures skyrocket.
Also, companies other than ADM which produce Ethanol are looking at other ways to produce it ( switchgrass, potatoes, etc...). A long way off in the future, but sooner or later oil is just going to run out, and then what?
Just my $.02, and climbing down from my soapbox...

Mike, 2ZE

Mike, I agree with you 1000%. But will the rest of the driving public?

I have seen them in 1/2 trucks, but not in a while.  Most I saw were conversions (one was an old Ford Bronco with an Olds car diesel engine in it and an Olds hydraulic power brake assist system as well).  I did see what looked like a factory job Chevy Blazer that also, I believe, had an Olds diesel in it.  The guy said he got 40 miles/gal on the hwy (probably an exageration).  But it can be done, it's just that they do not think there is a call for it to justify the cost I suppose.

At this time, obviously not. You can preach from the highest mountain, it isn't going to a lick of good if it cost people more money.

But if it can be produced to meet demand and then some the cost should be palateable if not cheaper.  Then there's the issue of either converting plants that process oil to ethanol or building new plants to produce ethanol.  I'm sure the environmentalists will weigh in on that in some form and create another firestorm.

Tom,
Contact W1NZR.  He has a 1973 Chevy 1/2 ton fullsizer for sale.  It was owned by an old town buzzard, Ed.
Here is the honest description of the Edmobile. Ed says this truck is a real chick magnet.
Goods: classic pickup, 3 speed floor shift with a hurst shifter and Genuine Hurst Shifter T handle knob. 350ci replacement motor with 30k miles.  You can put a full sheet of plywood in the bed, RI inspection sticker through '07. New bed sometime in the last decade, new paint sometime in the past decade. Chicks really dig it.
Bads: rust never sleeps.  It hasn't slept in 33 years.

All the other classic car words apply: rare, limited, immaculate, must see, tight, future classic, perfectly maintained.

$600 bucks means you could have the pickup of your dreams, get girls, buy a case of beer and some beef jerkey and still pocket over $14k.

Hope this helps,
Tom

I had a 90 Ranger, 2wd, until I stopped driving last year.  I LOVED that truck.  I'd bought it used and had a couple minor issues.  The shop I bought it from took care of them.   But it made a great mobile hamshack (http://www.wa2zdy.com/ranger.html) and if I were still driving, I'd ber driving that Ranger.

There's a reason so many fleets use them.

 ;D ;D ;D

Yep, it would be a truck you could park anywhere and not worry about dings or theft.

I've found that trying to go past 20 years of service is limited by rust. About 5 years ago I had the exhaust system replaced in my S-10 '86 Blazer. The mechanic said just about everything underneath needed replacement due to rust. The brake lines, gas lines, emergency brake cable, gas tank, etc. I was on the second gas tank too.

At the same time I cut out four big body panels that had rusted through and brazed in new metal. Had the whole truck painted. The Blazer ran and looked new.  I put about $3K into this whole operation and it was good for another five years. Today there are new areas rusting out.

Bottom line is with the darn salt put on CT roads, it's a losing battle past 20 years. I've been told to buy a used vehicle from PA where salt is illegal. Smart people in PA.

BTW, I'm still looking, reading and thinking of what truck to buy.

T

Just bought a NEW Ford F-150 for $15.5k.   Big 6 cyl and regular cab (has the mini suicide doors).  Pretty truck with A/C, disc player, etc.  Has regular roll-up windows.  Lots of room inside. 

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Wow, Chuck, that's a heck of a deal.  Tell me more. Why so cheap?  Do you have a listing of the exact specs/options you could cut,  paste and post so that I could show a CT dealership to try to duplicate the price?  Sometimes they will go to great lengths to match a deal. You being in Miss might have some bearing though, but for that price, I might fly down there and drive back!

I just haven't seen trucks that cheap, but then again, I haven't stopped by the dealerships yet and stepped on their toes.

T

Forget about a pickup, what you need is a stainless steel Delorean!

Bill said:
Complete with a 'Flux Capacitor' ;)

Hello All,
     I remember the chevy trucks. A diode in the alternater would go bad, and still charge the battery. The only thing was that the radiator would also go bad from the electrolite action. At least that is what I was told by a radiator shop!.

Best Regards,

LURD

whatever you decide on, good luck tom.  as to radiator rot, stick  a meter probe in the radiator fluid, then other side to ground. if you start seeing substantial voltage,
change the fluid

But watch that re-entry.... it's a little bumpy.
Don't forget to take underware. They don't use cotton in the future !!!

Tom,
I was quoted 23 K for my truck in CT. Then the guy made the mistake of letting me see that it was at Dana in Northampton Ma. on the print out. It was the same week as Mt. Tom flea so stopped by on the way home.  A week or so of hostrading and I bought it for 19.7K.
Ct dealers are rip offs. The add all kinds of stupid feas including $280 to register it for you. I heard $14K and change for a Silverado on the radio Saturday so deals are out there. This is real late for left overs so good buyers market.
I rebuilt a '72 1 toner it was a lot of work.
I found used trucks are usually high priced. Who the heck gets rid of a good truck
after 1 or 2 years unless it has a problem or you happen to find a person with lots of money.

Tom,
Do you still have the '86 S-10?  My '89 S-10 Blazer now has 245k miles and is going strong but as you say..rust is the challenge.  I just found a pair of doors on the www that had been in Calif.  Installed them this spring.  Its amazing how clean they were.  Also found patch panels for the typical rust-out areas in front and behind the rear wheels.  As you say, now other parts are rusting but I'm on the 20 year plan so every spring I'll break out the welder and fix something.
If you find a minty california tailgate, let me know.  Thats the next junkyard acquisition I am seeking.
If you need lower door skins, I have repros here that I wont use.  Was originally going to fix the original doors but when I found the super clean doors the re-skin plan was cancelled.

Have fun.
Tom

Don't waste your time welding skins. They make some super epoxy and you just glue them on. It works great and no warpage. Welding causes metal to rust so the disease just moves with the heat. Think it is crazy. I've been in Aircraft factories where they glue wing skins on to eliminate a lot of the rivets. It makes for a stronger structure. One glued wing had fuel in it.

Article in the paper today says truck sales are off for the second year in a row.  You might be able to "wheel and deal" yourself into a new one.  Also, my office mate says the end of the month is a good time to make deals at the dealers, because they are looking to make sales quotas. 

Good luck. 

Tis true.  My youngest brother was a salesman for a Saab/Volvo dealership several years ago.  When I was looking to buy a new car he advised that end of the month is the best time to purchase. Also it pays to have a salesman go up against another salesman.  I watched my brother negotiate a good deal for my car. It was fun to watch two like minds go up against each other.  And my brother is a stubborn SOB to boot too.

Yup I bought my truck at the end of the month. Sales guy told me he was all done dropping the price this month and I needed a ride.

Tom,
Killiam on RT140 near RT5 has a couple more used trucks on the lot today.
They are next to the trolley museum.  One was a 2005.