Corntests - Rotten QRM

[Ed KB1HVS]

Good anology Paul. K1MAN who used only a tiny fraction of the bands compared to contests ,but repeated the same thing for hours and hours (like corntesters) is gone because of QRMing and broadcasting.The piles of complaints on Hollingworths desk forced him off. Im sure Riley sees the same pile of complaints caused by contests. Yaesuicomkenwood promote some of thier boxes as "contest" rigs. Contests are here to stay.along with the bitching.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I was not looking for agreement. I was interested in the underlying reason/philosophy - the real premise for your argument. It appears to be based on the right to exclusive use. Those who argue against contesting taking over the entire band (don't confuse this with being against contesting, in general) are really arguing for shared used. Shared use is the basis for frequency occupancy in amateur radio. Arguing for contesting and its attendant exclusive use is in direct opposition with a basic tenant of amateur radio. Using numbers or so called statistics (no matter how incorrect they are) to argue against a core operating practice of amateur radio is nothing more than a rationalization.

[WA3VJB]

I'm in no rush for you to see this, Mark, so I'll continue my point here, and you can respond as time permits.

The presumption of shared use is lost on most contestors, whose behavior suggests they feel entitled to the entire band, that's the problem. Henderson, as the League's point man for contesting, will tell you that such events are occasional, and therefore do NOT represent a chronic problem.

He,, and others who endorse the view, confuses chronic with situational. When a weekend is ruined by the sitaution of a contest, that's significant and actionable, not incidental.

I don't disapprove of contesting, but I have a legitimate grievance against deliberate interference. That's why my analogy to other situations works.

Your point would have merit if you could show me that contest operating behavior maintains the level of respect for others on the band that we enjoy when such an event is not underway.

Even the most neutral of third parties would see that the bands are a mess during contests, and it's not the bystanders who are to blame.

[Ed W1XAW]

I'm not much of a corntester here but one thing I can say in their defense is that the better contesters tend to know a thing or two about antennas.  I don't approve of them using occupied frequencies but the overall practice seems to me no more quirky than wanting to get your DXCC or having a fetish about 1930's radio.  A couple of the local guys here are great contesters and they seem to really enjoy it.  I seriously doubt the League will ever try to limit contesting as thats one of the things that sells magazines. 

I've tried a couple CW contests here for a couple of hours and I found it no more stupid that the typical rag chew type CW QSO which tends to follow a pattern albeit a longer one.  It's actually sort of fun.  The suprising thing about the CW contests is the fact that most "ops" are not are not actually sending by hand or receiving by ear but rather using a keyboard and modem, sometimes with a logging program that asnwers you automatically.  Now, that's appliance operating at its finest.  The times I've tried CW contesting I've been using a bug of some sort.  Except for the Eastern Europeans you don't hear many stations with a genuine fist... its mostly guys with keyboards some of whom insist on sending at 40 wpm which very few US ops can actually receive without a assistance these days.  The most memorable corntest dabble was the time I worked field day on my sailboat using 5 W on 20M CW.  I think CW contests do tend to promote the mode, drive ops to improve speed and copy skills and therefore I'm for it. 

I have to admit the idea of yelling "cq contest" into a microphone for hours straight does not appeal in the least but I say its their hobby too and I haven't yet convinced myself that my concept of the hobby is any more valid than my friend who enjoys dx-expeditions during the big contests. 

73 de W1XAW

[K1JJ]

Those ridiculous state QSO parties ... When I hear a guy calling "CQ CQ CQ  PA QSO party", I'll sometimes break in with a California surfer accent and axe him, "Hey dude....! where's the party, maaann? I got the drugs and babes - where's the  party?"  And if you're really silly, look up the guy's address in QRZ and say, "hey everyone, I hear the party's at 22 Walnut St, Harrisburg, Pa - everybody's invited, man!". [fill in his adr]      

But seriously, as Ed said, some of the big gun DXer CQ Whirl Wide guys are pretty sharp operators - these guys stay down below 3850. SS and QSO parties are a different story.  But corntesting is here to stay and will be here for the rest of our brief ham lives. Just turn up the QRO control on your AM mawl and they will go away. Else, switch to ssb and tell them they are QRMing an existing QSO. This works very well. 

T

[wa2dtw]

I thought that the WARC bands were immune to contesters.  But I'm sure that I heard a contester on 30 meters!
How about we start some AM activity on 12 and 17 meters??
Steve WA2DTW

[Glenn NY4NC]

Nope, no corntests on 30 meters. Being a CW operator, I really appreciate that. Someplace I can go during a contest and have a non-contest (real) QSO when the CW segments of the other bands are polluted with corntest crud.

I thought that the WARC bands were immune to contesters.  But I'm sure that I heard a contester on 30 meters!
How about we start some AM activity on 12 and 17 meters??
Steve WA2DTW

[W1UJR]

seems to me no more quirky than wanting to get your DXCC or having a fetish about 1930's radio.  A couple of the local guys here are great contesters and they seem to really enjoy it.  I seriously doubt the League will ever try to limit contesting as thats one of the things that sells magazines.  <snip> 73 de W1XAW

Wait a minute, I have a fetish for 1930's radios...
See below for details..

I don't think that anyone seriously wants to ban or limit the number of contests Ed, the suggestion is simply curtail the operating times and frequencies so others may use the band. The current situation is such that the bands become largely unusable for anything other than contesters.

A reasonable frequency assignment and fixed operating times would go a long way toward making the spectrum useable by all.
As VJB points out, the current situation is such that during contests spectrum usage is nearly denied to those not participating in the contest, which is just not fair. Perhaps more controversial, I also think some power limitation should be imposed, after all, if a contest is about challenge, why not make it more challenging! 

Again, contesting is a special interest not shared by all, or even the majority of the amateur service members. What would happen if AMer's took over the bands for a weekend, wall to wall AM, denying use to other modes? Or CW or SSTV? People piss and moan now when AMers operate outside the "window", can you imagine that?

Again, the AWA contests provide a good model, fixed times and frequencies, allowing others who are not participating free use of the bands.

With that said, I am going to sign off this thread and go ionize some atoms.

[k4kyv]

I don't think we need special time or power limitiations for contests.  Keep it simple.  Limit them to designated segments of each band.

Since the majority of the US amateur community appears dedicated to the idea of subbands, why not apply them to contest activity as well? 

Now, I am not suggesting any new FCC regulations to limit contest operation.  Just make this part of the accepted "band plan."

[Ed W1XAW]

seems to me no more quirky than wanting to get your DXCC or having a fetish about 1930's radio.  A couple of the local guys here are great contesters and they seem to really enjoy it.  I seriously doubt the League will ever try to limit contesting as thats one of the things that sells magazines.  <snip> 73 de W1XAW

Wait a minute, I have a fetish for 1930's radios...

I don't think that anyone seriously wants to ban or limit the number of contests Ed, the suggestion is simply curtail the operating times and frequencies so others may use the band. The current situation is such that the bands become largely unusable for anything other than contesters.

A reasonable frequency assignment and fixed operating times would go a long way toward making the spectrum useable by all.
As VJB points out, the current situation is such that during contests spectrum usage is nearly denied to those not participating in the contest, which is just not fair. Perhaps more controversial, I also think some power limitation should be imposed, after all, if a contest is about challenge, why not make it more challenging!

Again, contesting is a special interest not shared by all, or even the majority of the amateur service members. What would happen if AMer's took over the bands for a weekend, wall to wall AM, denying use to other modes? Or CW or SSTV? People piss and moan now when AMers operate outside the "window", can you imagine that?

Again, the AWA contests provide a good model, fixed times and frequencies, allowing others who are not participating free use of the bands.

My prediction. . . you're going to continue to be denied spectrum during contests so stock up on a good stack of really old radio mags, a box of tissues and have at it during the contests.  The AWA might be a good model but its not one the corntesters are going to use.  Ed

[W1UJR]

There is yet another answer....

[W3SLK]

Unfortunatly, thats generally what it takes. I remember Astubula Bill and myself carving out a section on 1885 during the PA QSO Pharty. He pretty much told the corntestors to shove it where the sun don't shine and pills can't reach! BTW, Bruce, I like the 813 in that picture.

[W1UJR]

.

[W1UJR]

Unfortunatly, thats generally what it takes. I remember Astubula Bill and myself carving out a section on 1885 during the PA QSO Pharty. He pretty much told the corntestors to shove it where the sun don't shine and pills can't reach! BTW, Bruce, I like the 813 in that picture.

Astubula Bill, now there is a station that really straps!

After the Dayton Hamvention of 1999 Tom W2KBW, Bill K2LNU and Gerry N2QLS stopped by his place.
Quite a set up indeed.
One of my favorite pixs is W2KBW and W8VYZ standing on Bill's front yard next to a sign that says "An Old Buzzard Lives Here".

Photo below of the W8VYZ antenna tuner.

[Tim WA1HnyLR]

Quite a discussion of the cornholetesters for sure. The one contest I see no use for is the SS  contest. What purpose does it serve? it just seems to clogg up the bands. In the past I had a way of dealing with it. power and antenna. This last time aroundI got on Sat night/Sun morning. The usual haunts were clogged up even 3825. So I chose 3885. Sure there was some idiot screaming "CQ contest" over and over. Once a contact has been made and completed ,the frequency becomes fair game. My 200 watts was heard by Dean -WA1KNX in Arizona but a rough go. It took Ken W2DTC to bore a hole. The contest klingon in 9 land was persistant in the background zero beat. A simple move down frequency with another crapstal ,sandblasted the fool. he went away. running a Kw or more into a good antenna is a great deterrrant. make sure it's modulated very fullyto the maximum modulation capability of the transmitter. Who cares if you overmodulate it's everyman for himself.the resultant splatter is lost in the contester garbage anyway. Good engineering practice can go on vacation during a contest weekend.Heavy dense modulation is the keyword. no old buzzard transmissions either unless you KNOW that you are strapping.  Back when I had the 4-1000 rig I could bore a hole no problem time to build another one . Power is one thing you can use your carrier as a bludgeon to clear away the garbage as well.Always be ready to move frequency up or down somewhat.Be fleet of foot! do not anchor yourself one one frequency only. be very aware of what frequency you are on and whether the other stations your are in QSO with are zero beat with you As these contesters move in on the low side but not quite zero beat. slide down a bit so your carrier is sitting a few hundred Hz within their band pass. Same deal when one of these idiots move in 3Khz above you just slide up a tiny bit. You would be surprised how quickly these idots will move. Don't say " well Bob I just moved down frequency to let that f@&%$ CONTESTER KNOW THAT i AM HERE! Just make the appropriate move and tell the others "well,jeez I think we are on different frequencies here would you guys mind zero beating me". The first approach can be cosidered as malicious interference. The second approach as good operating practice . Let's all get on the same frequency even though some contest idiot  may be getting ground under my heels  . This will be viewed as incidental QRM in the eyes of the FeeCCee. Never admit to purposefully operating to drive away another amateur station even if it is a contester. Another effective type of transmitter is a high level modulated S.B.E. like a 304TL Hartley oscillator. I have yet to build one but the results I have had with my 75TL S.B.E. the results are most gratifying. especially if it is a windy day  with the antenna bobbing up and down. Built in VFO swishing .Yep will clear a frequency like a fart in an elevator. If  you're battling QRM you're not making points . A prudent contest operator will move. A stubborn one will not.and therfore his scoring will sufffer. Yep some people will refer to this type of operating as malicious QRM. I refer to it as guerrilla operating techniques,survival of the fittest.Hopefully by the time the next SS cornholetest comes around I will have both barrels blazing I hope you all will too. De Tim WA1HnyLR

[k4kyv]

There is an interesting article in the December 2005 WorldRadio magazine, written by WB8SIW (see page 35).  He relates how, during the Katrina emergency, a cw net was operating on 7050, only to be blown off the band by the CQ World Wide RTTY contest.

When he requested that the contesters QSY a little to allow the emergency net to continue operation, he received what he describes as "a deluge of profane, angry and insulting e-mails," deriding him for running cw instead of "voice or some exotic mode," for not being aware that the contest was about to commence (even though the emergency net's frequency had been announced in ARRL bulletins), and complaining that RTTY contesters use filters in their receivers so narrow that they could not hear others using the frequency, and even that many RTTY ops can't copy cw!

The contesters accused the guys operating the cw net as being "ugly Americans," but according to the article, most foreign contest participants were very accomodating while it was the US operators who were rude and inconsiderate.

They basically let the net know that they considered their contest more important than some little emergency net operating in an area that had just been hit by a major hurricane.