The AM Forum

Contesters are just plain "rotten".

Sorry, I just don’t get it.
How much audio gain and speech compression is too much?
What gives you the right to ruin a QSO because they are operating in a mode you can not copy and don't have interest in?
Forget the belches, burps and "creative language" of 75; nothing gives ham radio a black eye like a contest where almost every op on the band is inconsiderate, rude and just plain obnoxious.

I'm more than certain that this has been discussed before, but how about a break or freq limit from the corntest?
48 hours of "CQ Contest" just numbs my mind, and I am just monitoring, could you imagine participating?

If the point is to see how many contacts one can make in a fixed timeframe, why does it matter if it is 12, 24 or 48 hours?
Furthermore, if this is also about skill, how about a mandatory power limitation of 25 watts?

Or limitation to certain frequency segments, do we really have to have the entire band trashed?

Somehow I just don’t think “The Old Man” would be at all pleased.

Anybody else car to vent on this, perhaps I am missing something?

The contesters that you are hearing near existing QSO's are wannabe losers. They would not be trying to clean out an AM QSO if they had any hopes of earning a high score. The time wasted playing that game is enough to see section leader go bye bye. Best way to deal with the garbage is a better antenna.
BTW you are 5-9 hr.

Bruce said:
I think TOM would be severely pissed[/i] if he knew how the (be)League(d) is being run today.

Sorry I didn't have a good copy on you last nite Bruce.

The Old Man was a CW man. He would not have lowered himself to commenting about phone lid wars. No wonder the guy invented silencers.

     last night i actually got reprimanded for tuning up, testing and signing my call on a very clear 3880 by a contester who informed me that i should not be testing because i was INTERFERING WITH THE CONTEST! how about we get the ARRL to set up a contest operator complaint system where contesters who generate complaints from non competitors get either disqualified, or lose points for interfering with normal operation? years ago i got banned from sporty car racing for "rough driving" (chrome horn). why not ban contest ops for rough operating? the ARRL general contest rules cleary state that competitors must abide by FCC regulations. the "Riley era" has brought (ugh) politically correct operating to our bands. why should contesters be immune to it? 

CQ sweepstakes. CQ SS. I tried to engage one of them in a QSO. I asked him since he now had my call would I now be entered in the sweepstakes and what prize is at stake.. I asked him if my chances of winning were good. He called me a lid. I laughed. so Im a lid.......... ::) He continued on in the qrmtest

Chris said:
You got to be kidding me!!!!! The ARRgghhL won't even do what their own (be)League(d) members want let alone devoting time with petty corntests! I remember this topic being discussed back in my high school days when there was a least some credibility of order on the bands, (75M being the exception). Look at the ARRgghhL's own bandwidth proposal and tell me they will address corntest etiquette.

Call the Contest Guru in Newington and you will get your answer.
I did, and I have.
All contest queries should be directed to contests@arrl.org or by telephone to 860-594-0232.
Dan Henderson   n1nd@arrl.org


On the other hand, they seem to offer us a reward for challenging the people taking part in the contest.
From what I understand, if we can successfully push them off frequency, either for a period of time or off a range of frequencies, that is considered a
 Clean Sweep
and you can obtain the following:  (from ARRL website)

Clean Sweep Mugs

Commemorate working your "clean sweep" by purchasing your 2005 November Sweepstakes mug. To earn your mug, work all 80 ARRL/RAC sections during the CW or Phone November Sweepstakes. Mug awards are based on claimed scores. The price for the keepsake mug is $12 each, (including postage and handling). If you submit electronically, send a paper copy of the first page of your Cabrillo file and indicate how many mugs you are ordering along with your check. If you log by paper, attach a note to the top of your summary sheet indicating how many mugs you are ordering and your check. All orders should be sent to Clean Sweep Mugs, ARRL Contest Branch, 225 Main Street. Newington, CT 06111. Your mug will be shipped after all entries and mug orders have been processed and verified. Supplies are limited. We only guarantee filling orders received by the Phone Submission deadline of December 21, 2005.



Scoring is as follows:
Push away a pissweak contest station - 5 points
Push away a pissweak contest station and get him to quit for the weekend - 10 points

Push away any station that has "worked" less than 50 other competitors - 10 points
Push away a station whose signal is 30+ or more -- 50 points

Block contacts by an automated station through technical countermeasures -- 75 points


None of this is considered intentional interference under the contest rules, since it makes for a more challenging event.

Oh man! That's funny!  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

You could have told him...... "I could really use a microwave oven or a new digital camera, how many points do I need??"  ;D ;D ;D

Well, back in the mid 30's when Sweepstakes was first inaugurated, it lasted for an entire week!

Of course, it was cw-only back then.

I have no gripe against the cw sweepstakes.  It might actually help the participants sharpen up their cw skills.  They stay on the bottom end of the band, and there is usually enough room up the band to work non-contest cw if one is so inclined.  But the idiot-box SSB contests are a different matter.

I see a certain inconsistency in the ARRL's philosphy regarding subbands.  They strongly promote mode and licence-class subbands because it's an "American tradition," yet oppose segmenting the bands to keep contests in a limited portion in order to allow non-contesters to operate normally.

Don, interesting point, was not aware that the SS had been around since the 30s.
Your comments regarding limitations on time and freqs hit the nail on the head!

If a certain segment of the band were set aside for use during a contest, the rest of band would be free for normal and emergency traffic.

I am not sure of the exact number, but I would wager perhaps 10-20% of the amateur community actively participates in contests.
Which means, under the current arrangement, the remaining 80-90% of us are unable to use the band during the contest period?

Fair, equitable?
I think not.

Look at the way the AWA runs contests; it’s a model for what the ARRL should work toward.
Limited operating times, limited operating freqs, rewards for lower power, just makes sense.
Skill, not brute force.

Isn't what the amateur service was charted to do, advance the radio arts?
Not run 2KW linears with the audio gain and speech compression set on stun!


Let's see, where is the copy of the Radio Amateur's Code?

...I'M GLAD WE IN CANADA DONT HAVE BAND/MODE LIMITATIONS...NOTHING LIKE FIRING UP THE AM GEAR ON SAY,3550,AND HAVING A QSO...SK..

Maybe you could work the French guys who operate AM on 3550.  Hear them regularly during the winter months using my beverage.  They are just barely legible  here, right above the noise level.  I suspect they come in quite well in the coastal areas of northeastern US and Canada.

...i've herd weak hets on those freqs,not strong enough fer me..it would be nice...btw,i received a notice of violation from some "OO" last week,telling me to stop operating "in the cw portion of 80 meters". if i didnt cease,he would forward "my file" to the fcc...'hope he does..make him look even more stupid...sk..

Wow.  This idiot OO doesn't even realize you're in Canada?

This evidence of such a Fine Business OO program  *really* deserves a blast to the ARRL.  What absolute ignorance  >:(

...oh he knows i'm in canada,he mailed the report to me..but,these guys seem to think that what the fcc/arrl dictate,is universal. if you guys cant go wherever you choose,they assume nobody else can..tim...sk..

Yikes!  That OO's not in New Hampshire by any chance is he? 
By all means, you should send a copy of the OO notice to the ARRL.  What an embarrassment. 

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/org/oo.html
 http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/org/am_aux.html

 I really CAN use a new microwave oven  :). I had my chance..............

No, this what you need to send him ;)
Read it at a decent size here: http://www.somis.org/OOO_card.jpeg

(http://www.somis.org/OOO_card.jpeg)

Hello gang
I have no real gripe with contesters
many of them only get on during tests
ties up fone bands only a few weekends a year

75 fone full of contesters, heck go down to 80 cw
great place to run your heavy iron

look at it this way
how would you like it if they were on all the time

de mac

I don't have a problem with the national contests such as FD, SS, etc.  It's the worthless state so-called "QSO pharties" I can't stand.  The ops seem to be even less polite than normal corntesters, and if there's any purpose behind them I fail to see it.

"What was your call sign? Say again over. W what?... QSL, you're 5-9, 5-9 good luck in the contest...."

"10 contests / 52 weekends per year = 20%"

This number is low, when as JN noted you include the state QSO pharties. Regardless, when a very small portion of the ham population (probably single digits in percentage, maybe less) ties up the entire phone band for 20% of the weekends out of the year, I have trouble seeing how this is equitable or fair. Do any other single focus activities so monopolize the bands?

You can slice it any which way you want but in my opinion, corntests suck! You have a small percentage of "operators" stuffing the phone segment with their relentless bullshit, preventing the majority from enjoying the bands even if they wanted to. It amazes me to see these people fall 'ass-over-tin-cups' for contacts just so they can claim a slimey coffee mug.

Henderson, the Contest boss in Newington, used this same statistical impact approach when I tried to confront him about the disruptive behavior these events represent.

I don't agree, Mark, that it is "fair and equitable" for bystanders to be precluded from operating. We are all obligated to avoid interference; you learned that before Day One of your license. A "contest" does not trump that rule, so there is no level that can be rationalized, including that based on duration as you and the ARRL have claimed.

I don't have any resentment toward you, but Henderson came off as an arrogant SOB when he said the number of calendar days these events soak up makes them insigificant as a source of interference. He refused to consider constraints, including a limited range of operating on a given band specified in the contest directions.

So much for goodwill.

Limiting the frequency range of contests would provide a place for those who want to avoid these incidents, while not adding much to the bedlam among contestors who already are dealing with interference as part of what they consider a delightful challenge. Such constraints would not materially change the nature of these 'events.'

Let's use two other examples to show why it does not work to use percentages/duration to rationalize bad behavior.

EGC, whose overmodulated, reverberated CB-style activity has been a source of irritation on 75m, is only on a few hours at a time, and 'limits' himself to a 30kc chunk of the band when he's on. Would you say this is 'fair and equitable' to others?

Or how about the late K1MAN broadcasts. They too were only on a handful of frequencies, albeit the duration was far more prolonged. Those not interested in his material could tune away, successfully avoiding him. That may seem "fair and equitable" to others too, under the statistical rationalization coughed up for contests.

Good anology Paul. K1MAN who used only a tiny fraction of the bands compared to contests ,but repeated the same thing for hours and hours (like corntesters) is gone because of QRMing and broadcasting.The piles of complaints on Hollingworths desk forced him off. Im sure Riley sees the same pile of complaints caused by contests. Yaesuicomkenwood promote some of thier boxes as "contest" rigs. Contests are here to stay.along with the bitching. :)

I was not looking for agreement. I was interested in the underlying reason/philosophy - the real premise for your argument. It appears to be based on the right to exclusive use. Those who argue against contesting taking over the entire band (don't confuse this with being against contesting, in general) are really arguing for shared used. Shared use is the basis for frequency occupancy in amateur radio. Arguing for contesting and its attendant exclusive use is in direct opposition with a basic tenant of amateur radio. Using numbers or so called statistics (no matter how incorrect they are) to argue against a core operating practice of amateur radio is nothing more than a rationalization.

I'm in no rush for you to see this, Mark, so I'll continue my point here, and you can respond as time permits.

The presumption of shared use is lost on most contestors, whose behavior suggests they feel entitled to the entire band, that's the problem. Henderson, as the League's point man for contesting, will tell you that such events are occasional, and therefore do NOT represent a chronic problem.

He,, and others who endorse the view, confuses chronic with situational. When a weekend is ruined by the sitaution of a contest, that's significant and actionable, not incidental.

I don't disapprove of contesting, but I have a legitimate grievance against deliberate interference. That's why my analogy to other situations works.

Your point would have merit if you could show me that contest operating behavior maintains the level of respect for others on the band that we enjoy when such an event is not underway.

Even the most neutral of third parties would see that the bands are a mess during contests, and it's not the bystanders who are to blame.

I'm not much of a corntester here but one thing I can say in their defense is that the better contesters tend to know a thing or two about antennas.  I don't approve of them using occupied frequencies but the overall practice seems to me no more quirky than wanting to get your DXCC or having a fetish about 1930's radio.  A couple of the local guys here are great contesters and they seem to really enjoy it.  I seriously doubt the League will ever try to limit contesting as thats one of the things that sells magazines. 

I've tried a couple CW contests here for a couple of hours and I found it no more stupid that the typical rag chew type CW QSO which tends to follow a pattern albeit a longer one.  It's actually sort of fun.  The suprising thing about the CW contests is the fact that most "ops" are not are not actually sending by hand or receiving by ear but rather using a keyboard and modem, sometimes with a logging program that asnwers you automatically.  Now, that's appliance operating at its finest.  The times I've tried CW contesting I've been using a bug of some sort.  Except for the Eastern Europeans you don't hear many stations with a genuine fist... its mostly guys with keyboards some of whom insist on sending at 40 wpm which very few US ops can actually receive without a assistance these days.  The most memorable corntest dabble was the time I worked field day on my sailboat using 5 W on 20M CW.  I think CW contests do tend to promote the mode, drive ops to improve speed and copy skills and therefore I'm for it. 

I have to admit the idea of yelling "cq contest" into a microphone for hours straight does not appeal in the least but I say its their hobby too and I haven't yet convinced myself that my concept of the hobby is any more valid than my friend who enjoys dx-expeditions during the big contests. 

73 de W1XAW

Those ridiculous state QSO parties ... When I hear a guy calling "CQ CQ CQ  PA QSO party", I'll sometimes break in with a California surfer accent and axe him, "Hey dude....! where's the party, maaann? I got the drugs and babes - where's the  party?"  And if you're really silly, look up the guy's address in QRZ and say, "hey everyone, I hear the party's at 22 Walnut St, Harrisburg, Pa - everybody's invited, man!". [fill in his adr]   ;D  ;D  ;D

But seriously, as Ed said, some of the big gun DXer CQ Whirl Wide guys are pretty sharp operators - these guys stay down below 3850. SS and QSO parties are a different story.  But corntesting is here to stay and will be here for the rest of our brief ham lives. Just turn up the QRO control on your AM mawl and they will go away. Else, switch to ssb and tell them they are QRMing an existing QSO. This works very well. 

T

I thought that the WARC bands were immune to contesters.  But I'm sure that I heard a contester on 30 meters!
How about we start some AM activity on 12 and 17 meters??
Steve WA2DTW

Nope, no corntests on 30 meters. Being a CW operator, I really appreciate that. Someplace I can go during a contest and have a non-contest (real) QSO when the CW segments of the other bands are polluted with corntest crud.

Wait a minute, I have a fetish for 1930's radios... ;D
See below for details..

I don't think that anyone seriously wants to ban or limit the number of contests Ed, the suggestion is simply curtail the operating times and frequencies so others may use the band. The current situation is such that the bands become largely unusable for anything other than contesters.

A reasonable frequency assignment and fixed operating times would go a long way toward making the spectrum useable by all.
As VJB points out, the current situation is such that during contests spectrum usage is nearly denied to those not participating in the contest, which is just not fair. Perhaps more controversial, I also think some power limitation should be imposed, after all, if a contest is about challenge, why not make it more challenging!  ;D

Again, contesting is a special interest not shared by all, or even the majority of the amateur service members. What would happen if AMer's took over the bands for a weekend, wall to wall AM, denying use to other modes? Or CW or SSTV? People piss and moan now when AMers operate outside the "window", can you imagine that?

Again, the AWA contests provide a good model, fixed times and frequencies, allowing others who are not participating free use of the bands.

With that said, I am going to sign off this thread and go ionize some atoms.

I don't think we need special time or power limitiations for contests.  Keep it simple.  Limit them to designated segments of each band.

Since the majority of the US amateur community appears dedicated to the idea of subbands, why not apply them to contest activity as well? 

Now, I am not suggesting any new FCC regulations to limit contest operation.  Just make this part of the accepted "band plan."

My prediction. . . you're going to continue to be denied spectrum during contests so stock up on a good stack of really old radio mags, a box of tissues and have at it during the contests.  The AWA might be a good model but its not one the corntesters are going to use.  Ed

There is yet another answer....

Unfortunatly, thats generally what it takes. I remember Astubula Bill and myself carving out a section on 1885 during the PA QSO Pharty. He pretty much told the corntestors to shove it where the sun don't shine and pills can't reach! BTW, Bruce, I like the 813 in that picture.

.

Astubula Bill, now there is a station that really straps!

After the Dayton Hamvention of 1999 Tom W2KBW, Bill K2LNU and Gerry N2QLS stopped by his place.
Quite a set up indeed.
One of my favorite pixs is W2KBW and W8VYZ standing on Bill's front yard next to a sign that says "An Old Buzzard Lives Here".

Photo below of the W8VYZ antenna tuner.

Quite a discussion of the cornholetesters for sure. The one contest I see no use for is the SS  contest. What purpose does it serve? it just seems to clogg up the bands. In the past I had a way of dealing with it. power and antenna. This last time aroundI got on Sat night/Sun morning. The usual haunts were clogged up even 3825. So I chose 3885. Sure there was some idiot screaming "CQ contest" over and over. Once a contact has been made and completed ,the frequency becomes fair game. My 200 watts was heard by Dean -WA1KNX in Arizona but a rough go. It took Ken W2DTC to bore a hole. The contest klingon in 9 land was persistant in the background zero beat. A simple move down frequency with another crapstal ,sandblasted the fool. he went away. running a Kw or more into a good antenna is a great deterrrant. make sure it's modulated very fullyto the maximum modulation capability of the transmitter. Who cares if you overmodulate it's everyman for himself.the resultant splatter is lost in the contester garbage anyway. Good engineering practice can go on vacation during a contest weekend.Heavy dense modulation is the keyword. no old buzzard transmissions either unless you KNOW that you are strapping.  Back when I had the 4-1000 rig I could bore a hole no problem time to build another one . Power is one thing you can use your carrier as a bludgeon to clear away the garbage as well.Always be ready to move frequency up or down somewhat.Be fleet of foot! do not anchor yourself one one frequency only. be very aware of what frequency you are on and whether the other stations your are in QSO with are zero beat with you As these contesters move in on the low side but not quite zero beat. slide down a bit so your carrier is sitting a few hundred Hz within their band pass. Same deal when one of these idiots move in 3Khz above you just slide up a tiny bit. You would be surprised how quickly these idots will move. Don't say " well Bob I just moved down frequency to let that f@&%$ CONTESTER KNOW THAT i AM HERE! Just make the appropriate move and tell the others "well,jeez I think we are on different frequencies here would you guys mind zero beating me". The first approach can be cosidered as malicious interference. The second approach as good operating practice . Let's all get on the same frequency even though some contest idiot  may be getting ground under my heels  . This will be viewed as incidental QRM in the eyes of the FeeCCee. Never admit to purposefully operating to drive away another amateur station even if it is a contester. Another effective type of transmitter is a high level modulated S.B.E. like a 304TL Hartley oscillator. I have yet to build one but the results I have had with my 75TL S.B.E. the results are most gratifying. especially if it is a windy day  with the antenna bobbing up and down. Built in VFO swishing .Yep will clear a frequency like a fart in an elevator. If  you're battling QRM you're not making points . A prudent contest operator will move. A stubborn one will not.and therfore his scoring will sufffer. Yep some people will refer to this type of operating as malicious QRM. I refer to it as guerrilla operating techniques,survival of the fittest.Hopefully by the time the next SS cornholetest comes around I will have both barrels blazing I hope you all will too. De Tim WA1HnyLR

There is an interesting article in the December 2005 WorldRadio magazine, written by WB8SIW (see page 35).  He relates how, during the Katrina emergency, a cw net was operating on 7050, only to be blown off the band by the CQ World Wide RTTY contest.

When he requested that the contesters QSY a little to allow the emergency net to continue operation, he received what he describes as "a deluge of profane, angry and insulting e-mails," deriding him for running cw instead of "voice or some exotic mode," for not being aware that the contest was about to commence (even though the emergency net's frequency had been announced in ARRL bulletins), and complaining that RTTY contesters use filters in their receivers so narrow that they could not hear others using the frequency, and even that many RTTY ops can't copy cw!

The contesters accused the guys operating the cw net as being "ugly Americans," but according to the article, most foreign contest participants were very accomodating while it was the US operators who were rude and inconsiderate.

They basically let the net know that they considered their contest more important than some little emergency net operating in an area that had just been hit by a major hurricane.