EQplus by W2IHY... and the 897D Experiment

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

Good Day All,

 In my unsatable thirst for knowledge of Audio Anything and my unstable approach to gizmos gadgets and wiz bang latest and greatest anything, i have aquired the EQplus box from the man W2IHY, it arrived today.

 Now before we start cat calling and Jack you have to stop this, i would like to give Julius a Day on the board here, I have a very Great Liking for Julius and a deep respect for him and he's just the nicest Guy , i really enjoy conversing with him and to great lengths...i can't get off the phone with him..LOL...so here we go and this is my first impressions of the little Black Box as it was handed to me.

 It is/was Packaged in double box fashion with rather nice Material, all cableing is packaged seperately the box itself is wraped in a nice plastic bag and wraped Well, and all contents was stowed in a very handleable fashion, it took the riggors of UPS very well... all contents arrived well and the little black box in fine shape and the controls are seemingly tight and bright, Paint is a Flat Black not wrinkled, oh well, a nice Hefty little unit....included is an upgrade paper on the 8 band EQ and as well all literiture on the EQplus seemingly very nice treatise on the unit, i will relate my finished thoughts on this later as well...

 OK I had asked for a Cable for the Ten-Tec 538 and a cable for the Yeasu FT-897D and a cable to mate it to the 8 band EQ i had built a few years ago, so now i will have to pull that out and add it to the line up, the Idea behind this excersion is the modifing of the 897 i have fouind a way to open up the DSP filtering to 6Kcs or at least this is what i found when i swept the rig...in transmit so my idea here is to experiment Audibly with headroom at 2.5 Kcs width...i'm figuring Skirting at -60db to be about 2.9 just over 300Hz just over spec so that's equivilant to 150Hz either side i am talking -60Db down so...keep the neighbors Happy and Not Hogging the band, idea being shoot for a Flat Response...

 It is Possible with this rig to have some real nice Full Audio at 2.5Kcs on recieve so my test is to see the same response on transmit...of course i am talking about Scientific Set Back but the rig does have a very nice sounding recieve..So i will see...what Transpiers here...I can always widen or Shorten as needed to find the sweet spot...in keeping with the rules...

 So my testing will be done on 17 meters and if anyone is interested here or there i will be reporting my findings here...with some luck and alot of patients i'm hoping for a successful experiment...


 Not necessairly AM but Not necessairly ESSB either... an investigation in Audio...then i think i will apply it to the AM xmitter...

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

Good Day All,

 Welp after a Day at my bench yesterday, it was a wash as far as the weather is concerned, and as such this morning i have a snow covered yard that i awoke to this AM.

 As to my findings if anyone is interested, first off i have found that 3 Kcs is the benchmark if any assemblance of what is percieved to be Hi-Fi Audio is to be found, However, a somewhat Decent Flat response is to be had at 3.9 kcs and above and  that would put me on the carpet with Riley...therefore i made no "Contact" air transmissions, only One to check frequency for "Clear" and to throw a Test pattern out to capture the envelope on the System here. and I Have succumbed to this ESSB mode if one wants this Sound to be found...the Limits are going to have to be stretched to achieve a Decent Sound...is this Legal..? or is it not..? Now i understand what alot of these fellas are doing and are they at the Limits of the rules...?

This was done with both of my DSP rigs testing was done feeding both at the inputs of the DSP chips passing the audio past the mike amps and after all the work put forth i find it isn't worth it...but i have gained a better working knowledge of DSP chip sets and alogrithims...hi hi...of course this is just my opinion and a somewhat pleasant sound can be found at lower response 2.9kcs being the benchmark there.. if that is acceptable to the operator but Not Hi-Fi in my opinion...

As to the EQPlus....Well, alot of experimenting was done there...quite a few  hours i spent adjusting the "Little Black Box"..the controls do their job, Initial setup was a Snap, Cableing was to my advantage and expensive.. hi hi...Total investment on this Excersion was to the tune of 414.99, Well that may be a tidy Sum to some, Yes it is....quite Expensive in the Tight Asp crowd...  But this is My First Real Documented Opinion i have ever done on the net so i feel a total and complete discription is in order...

First off Read the pamplets and extra paperwork given...this is a Must to do, Julius is very in tune with his equipment as i expected, and Very interested in what you the buyer can and will do and how to handle his equipment..a Good starting point to think of... Feeding is NOT a Problem i fed the unit at different output levels from the 8 band eq and all was handled very well by the input gain and no noticeable distortion was found, However..pay Very close attention to the indicator...on the unit..clipping will occur if over driven this is a good thing and handled very well, Now,,all the controlling attributes Work, i did find a problem on compression Noise canceling effect.."Don't use it"...it creates a crackling noise what would be percieved as a "Poping affect"...Junk don't use it...not needed if the input audio is set up correctly....the "Echo" affects do work and different asymetry can be had depending again on how the input Audio is set up....Important Stress is placed here in my opinion...Dull is Dull, Flat is Flat, and Mike Choice is the answer ....

Overall, a nice piece of gear, i had found some "Phasing Noise" at the output......UM, this is to be expected and can be handled by how the user feeds the audio in what ever rig is to be used...most mic amps and DSP chips sets will cancel this out and squash the Amp noise...this happened with both of my rigs here...and, i did introduce a Jension tranny between the set up and "ALL" noise was cancled...

So, it does work, it does add enhancement, it does it's Job, So Nice Job to Julius and Job well done...

This my Opinion and hope it helps anyone who is interested in this aspect of the Service...

73 from me...

I forgot to metion all testing was done at optimum Levels and Above to Stress the circuit to and above enhancement to make noticeable, Noteable readings, So, at Nominal levels the unit is quite acceptable to my interests....

[Pete, WA2CWA]

You might want to pass your findings on to Julius and, hopefully he can provide some additional feedback on your results.

Word has it that a EQ Plus loaner was sent to an AM forum member months ago for testing and evaluation, and then passed on to additional members for further testing. It would be "nice" to hear the results of that testing.

24 reviews on e-ham claim it's the next best thing since sliced bread.
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4417

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Thanks for the write up Jack.

My question about the IHY stuff all along has been what do they do that boxes from from Behringer, Rane, Ashley, etc don't do. Considering the price of the IHY box at $414.99 is more than twice some of the the others, I'm having a hard time grasping the value proposition. Further, the resale market for the IHY boxes is limited to the amateur radio market. The others have a much wider resale market.

The IHY stuff seems like a poor value when you buy or sell them.

[W1GFH]

Thanks for the write up Jack.

My question about the IHY stuff all along has been what do they do that boxes from from Behringer, Rane, Ashley, etc don't do. Considering the price of the IHY box at $414.99 is more than twice some of the the others, I'm having a hard time grasping the value proposition. Further, the resale market for the IHY boxes is limited to the amateur radio market. The others have a much wider resale market.

The IHY stuff seems like a poor value when you buy or sell them.

My impression of the IHY stuff is that it's rightly targeted at the majority of hams who want a one-box, "plug-and-play" solution for SSB. The T/R wiring, RF shielding fuss, connector wiring, etc. is greatly simplified; just plug in a YeasuIcomKenwood mike and footswitch and you're done. He's also narrowed the complexity of pro audio gear down to only a few essential features the average ham might use. For what it is, it does the job very well.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Thanks for the write up Jack.
My question about the IHY stuff all along has been what do they do that boxes from from Behringer, Rane, Ashley, etc don't do. Considering the price of the IHY box at $414.99 is more than twice some of the the others, I'm having a hard time grasping the value proposition. Further, the resale market for the IHY boxes is limited to the amateur radio market. The others have a much wider resale market.

The IHY stuff seems like a poor value when you buy or sell them.

My impression of the IHY stuff is that it's rightly targeted at the majority of hams who want a one-box, "plug-and-play" solution for SSB. The T/R wiring, RF shielding fuss, connector wiring, etc. is greatly simplified; just plug in a YeasuIcomKenwood mike and footswitch and you're done. He's also narrowed the complexity of pro audio gear down to only a few essential features the average ham might use. For what it is, it does the job very well.

The base price is $340. Buying ready-made cables for your rig, if you don't want to roll your own, will bump up the price. And 3 year warranty, free technical support, 30 day money back guarantee, the ability to interface with vintage rigs and current state-of-the-art rigs, and from his web site:
"User-Friendly, Shack-Friendly Self-Contained Unit
EQplus users would rather spend their valuable time on the air instead of endlessly twisting knobs and setting menus. That famous audio guy Albert Einstein said “Everything should be made as simple as possible; but not one bit simpler”. We’re with you, Al. While EQplus employs sophisticated technology custom-engineered for amateur radio, it is surprisingly simple to set up and operate.
   
With its shack-friendly footprint, EQplus fits nicely on operating desks where space is always at a premium. Note the efficient stacking feature when used with our 8-Band EQ.

Shielding from the steel enclosure, plus extensive internal isolation from RFI, hum and ground loops, ensures squeaky-clean pristine audio output. Like all W2IHY products, EQplus is designed and built to perform flawlessly in real-world amateur applications."[/color]

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I agree that the IHY stuff is targeted at SSB ops. That fact does not speak to the value proposition, nor do any of the below items. The resale problem is not addressed at all.

The base price is $340. Buying ready-made cables for your rig, if you don't want to roll your own, will bump up the price.

At $100, those are some expensive cables!

And 3 year warranty, free technical support, 30 day money back guarantee, the ability to interface with vintage rigs and current state-of-the-art rigs, and from his web site:

No better warranty than is offered by most pro audio companies. The ability to interface is dependent upon the $100 cables. I don't see this as a selling point or a good value proposition.

"User-Friendly, Shack-Friendly Self-Contained Unit EQplus users would rather spend their valuable time on the air instead of endlessly twisting knobs and setting menus.

These are the same guys with state-of-the-art radios that have tons of knobs and menus. Huh?

That famous audio guy Albert Einstein said “Everything should be made as simple as possible; but not one bit simpler”. We’re with you, Al. While EQplus employs sophisticated technology custom-engineered for amateur radio, it is surprisingly simple to set up and operate.

No more simple than most pro-audio equipment.
   

With its shack-friendly footprint, EQplus fits nicely on operating desks where space is always at a premium. Note the efficient stacking feature when used with our 8-Band EQ.

A good feature if one is stuck to the desk paradigm. But rack mounting is far more space efficient. That why pro-audio, and pro-telecom users favor rack mount.

Shielding from the steel enclosure, plus extensive internal isolation from RFI, hum and ground loops, ensures squeaky-clean pristine audio output. Like all W2IHY products, EQplus is designed and built to perform flawlessly in real-world amateur applications."

Pro-audio equipment is used successfully every day in RF fields from broadcast transmitters. No advantage to the IHY gear here.

My question remains.

[N3WWL]

I concur, Steve.  I purchased a Behringer VX2000 Ultra Voice Pro a few years ago when it was introduced.  My first impression was that of a "poor man's" Symetrix 528E.  I couldn't be more satisfied...absolutely no RF intrusion issues, very simple to operate (providing you have an understanding of each function), 1U rack mount high that could easily be used atop a modern transceiver, and very inexpensive comparitively speaking, and yes, you have to make up cables-shiver the thought   .

[nq5t]

I spent a good bit of time talking with Julius about this thing at Ham-Com last year.   It is designed to be used with the 8-band EQ, so you may also need to add the price of one of those into the mix.

I also agree that a 528E or VX-2000 or 9024 and several other things, too, make more sense.  They also benefit from not having an "effects" level that can be turned up so far that everyone sounds like something from channel 19 ... :-)

Grant/NQ5T

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I agree that the IHY stuff is targeted at SSB ops. That fact does not speak to the value proposition, nor do any of the below items. The resale problem is not addressed at all.

The base price is $340. Buying ready-made cables for your rig, if you don't want to roll your own, will bump up the price.

At $100, those are some expensive cables!

I guess it depends on how many cables you need to interface with "x" number of rigs. Average cable price on his site is $20.00

And 3 year warranty, free technical support, 30 day money back guarantee, the ability to interface with vintage rigs and current state-of-the-art rigs, and from his web site:

No better warranty than is offered by most pro audio companies. The ability to interface is dependent upon the $100 cables. I don't see this as a selling point or a good value proposition.

Checking Behringer's web site, as an example, they offer only a 1 year warranty. http://www.behringerdownload.de/warranty/Garantiebedingungen_ENG_Rev_B.pdf

"User-Friendly, Shack-Friendly Self-Contained Unit EQplus users would rather spend their valuable time on the air instead of endlessly twisting knobs and setting menus.

These are the same guys with state-of-the-art radios that have tons of knobs and menus. Huh?

Other than the tuning, volume, DSP, and RIT, which are used often, the rest are set and forget; same with menus unless you like to diddle.

That famous audio guy Albert Einstein said “Everything should be made as simple as possible; but not one bit simpler”. We’re with you, Al. While EQplus employs sophisticated technology custom-engineered for amateur radio, it is surprisingly simple to set up and operate.

No more simple than most pro-audio equipment.

Don't know, never owned any, but users on the air seem to diddle, diddle, diddle, diddle, etc. constantly with their "pro-audio equipment".
   

With its shack-friendly footprint, EQplus fits nicely on operating desks where space is always at a premium. Note the efficient stacking feature when used with our 8-Band EQ.

A good feature if one is stuck to the desk paradigm. But rack mounting is far more space efficient. That why pro-audio, and pro-telecom users favor rack mount.

For me, racks are ugly, unsightly, and take up a lot of vertical room in an operating area. I'm glad I'm not a pro-audio/pro-telecom user.

Shielding from the steel enclosure, plus extensive internal isolation from RFI, hum and ground loops, ensures squeaky-clean pristine audio output. Like all W2IHY products, EQplus is designed and built to perform flawlessly in real-world amateur applications."

Pro-audio equipment is used successfully every day in RF fields from broadcast transmitters. No advantage to the IHY gear here.

Duh, I don't think he is targeting that market. His web site banner reads, "Affordable Audio Technology for Amateur Radio Applications"

My question remains.

That's your prerogative.

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

Thanks for the write up Jack.

My question about the IHY stuff all along has been what do they do that boxes from from Behringer, Rane, Ashley, etc don't do. Considering the price of the IHY box at $414.99 is more than twice some of the the others, I'm having a hard time grasping the value proposition. Further, the resale market for the IHY boxes is limited to the amateur radio market. The others have a much wider resale market.

The IHY stuff seems like a poor value when you buy or sell them.

Good Morning Steven,

 I understand, and see that's the whole of my write up here, and the Experiment with this Audio "Thing" that is gripping the SSB crowd these days no matter where i go on the bands it's found this "Hows my Audio"... not trying to be smart or insultive, but, it's there, so i wanted to Run a complete Experiment with Todays latest Gadgets... complete with the Heil GM-5 and the Star quad mic cable and the IHY Box's and one of todays latests rigs and See for myself What this is all about... Damn it's Expensive..  and no matter where one ends up it's not enough...

So, i can honestly state that my experiment is a success, and i learned a great deal about the modifications being done to alot of these rigs and the how to's and so forth, and Sure there's obvious more equitable choices that can be made, But the Points i tryed to express to the group Yes this Stuff works as stated, Um there's a mulitude of arrangments to be had, you will Spend a small fortune to do it...

As far as the ESSB thing. it's not a course i think I want to follow and after seeing it up front here for myself "Again " it's not worth it, if I want Hi-Fi man it's AM for me as always and I enjoyed making the Test and watching what the two rigs can do when Streched out to 5 Kc 6 Kc SSB and really see the Audio presence on the scopes and watching the filter skirting fall out down the db levels..

This was Just an Experiment and an Opinon on some of the equipment availibe today for the SSB crowd and that's it...

On to the next Job, it is Nice to have a Spectrum Analyzer Steven...  your Tag line says it all...

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Very well put Jack. It sounds like yes, the stuff works but it's pricey. That's my point exactly. You've just gone ahead and proven it.

Thanks for passing the info along.

Thanks for the write up Jack.

My question about the IHY stuff all along has been what do they do that boxes from from Behringer, Rane, Ashley, etc don't do. Considering the price of the IHY box at $414.99 is more than twice some of the the others, I'm having a hard time grasping the value proposition. Further, the resale market for the IHY boxes is limited to the amateur radio market. The others have a much wider resale market.

The IHY stuff seems like a poor value when you buy or sell them.

Good Morning Steven,

 I understand, and see that's the whole of my write up here, and the Experiment with this Audio "Thing" that is gripping the SSB crowd these days no matter where i go on the bands it's found this "Hows my Audio"... not trying to be smart or insultive, but, it's there, so i wanted to Run a complete Experiment with Todays latest Gadgets... complete with the Heil GM-5 and the Star quad mic cable and the IHY Box's and one of todays latests rigs and See for myself What this is all about... Damn it's Expensive..  and no matter where one ends up it's not enough...

So, i can honestly state that my experiment is a success, and i learned a great deal about the modifications being done to alot of these rigs and the how to's and so forth, and Sure there's obvious more equitable choices that can be made, But the Points i tryed to express to the group Yes this Stuff works as stated, Um there's a mulitude of arrangments to be had, you will Spend a small fortune to do it...

As far as the ESSB thing. it's not a course i think I want to follow and after seeing it up front here for myself "Again " it's not worth it, if I want Hi-Fi man it's AM for me as always and I enjoyed making the Test and watching what the two rigs can do when Streched out to 5 Kc 6 Kc SSB and really see the Audio presence on the scopes and watching the filter skirting fall out down the db levels..

This was Just an Experiment and an Opinon on some of the equipment availibe today for the SSB crowd and that's it...

On to the next Job, it is Nice to have a Spectrum Analyzer Steven...  your Tag line says it all...

[K1JJ]

Take a tip from one of the best sounding AM stations on the air.... Big G, W2INR.

Much of the time for "processing", G runs a simple audio equalizer ONLY- that's it.  Big dynamic range and natural sound. Sounds almost as good as George, W1GAC [like a $million bux... :lol:]

I do the same - I found my own EQ at a music store for $35. It was a Urei from the 70's - high quality.  I also have a Symetrix 528 processor, but, DO NOT use it for rag chewing locally.  Only used for AM DXing once every month or so to get the higher, but "busy" average level.

If a higher level of audio is needed, then one might spring for the Behringer 6 band? audio processor - that's probably the best deal out there these days.

Dollar for dollar, I have to agree with Steve/HUZ that the IHY processor is expensive and not a good value for AM use - especially after you add on their 8 band EQ.

I would return the IHY box in a New York second.  Then go to your local music store and look at their USED gear rack.  Then walk out with everything you need for under $100.  [And, spring for a clean, USED Electro-Voice RE-20 microphone while you're there!]


** Oh, BTW and very important....  the transmitter itself has to be swept and proven out/modified to be clean and transparent BEFORE adding ANY processing boxes. Adding audio boxes to a dirty or audio restricted rig and expecting it to sound broadcash quality is the biggest and most frustrating exercise known to ham man....

73,
T

[w3jn]

is the biggest and most frustrating exercise known to ham man....

Except for trying to get rid of RF feedback in the audio...

[K1JJ]

is the biggest and most frustrating exercise known to ham man....

Except for trying to get rid of RF feedback in the audio...

Yes, I stand corrected, John.  Especially after doing a hi hi FB job of shielded braid strapping, capacitor bypassing, torroids, etc and buttoning it up - only to find it's worse than before!


Frustrating things known to Ham-kind:

1) "RF feedback in the audio is the biggest and most frustrating excercise known to ham-kind".

2) Adding audio boxes/ processors to a restricted/dirty AM rig expecting broadcash audio....

3) Spending $10K for the newest ricebox and being told, "it sounds like shit on AM".

4) Any more?  [This could be a good thread in itself]

T

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Eh!

Get yourself some good shielded balanced cables, make proper conversions from balanced-to-unbalanced and vice-versa (hint: use a matching transformer), ground everything properly and you'll have no problems. I've used this stuff on the second floor (a.k.a. not a real good ground), less than 15 feet from the antenna on 10 meters with no RF problems.

If there is any imbalance in the system, RF can be a problem (not to mention hum). The key in getting the benefits of balanced in/out equipment is that the balance has to be maintained from unit to unit or connection to connection. Most important are the conversions from high to lo Z and balanced-to-unbalanced. Mess these up and you are asking for trouble.

It can be done.

[2ZE]

4) Any more? [This could be a good thread in itself]

Giving out audio reports at 8:30PM on a Friday night on 3885KHz.
But quite honestly, I think we all have been guilty of that.

ZE

[2ZE]

Another one....

Pushing in the AM button on your ricebox, and calling CQ with 20 watts PEP, and wonder why no one can hear you.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

DUQ and I do that almost evert Sunday afternoon with no problems.


 - Using a crappy antenna (dipole at 10 feet or worse, a vertical with one radial) and wondering why no one can here you.

 - Making an old buzzard while running the above (frustrating for those on the other end).

 - Trying to strap HUZ.

Another one....

Pushing in the AM button on your ricebox, and calling CQ with 20 watts PEP, and wonder why no one can hear you.

[w3jn]

Trying to strap HUZ.

Indeed.  That is a true exercise in futility.

My problems *started* when I went to all balanced audio.  Actually I think the source is probably that POS hamfest special mixer.  Needs a bit of bypassing in the power suckply.

Shoulda gone with the W2IHY box (running and ducking for cover...)

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

LOL. There's no way you'd get an IHY box unless it was given to you. The cost of your entire audio rack (mixer, eq, compressor limiter) was not even one-tenth the cost of an IHY box. You are a shining example that it doesn't take big $$ to sound FB.

I'll be up your way next week. Let me know if you want me to bring cables or matching transformers, etc.

Gotta get you rockin' again. Can't let those 1-land pukes out do us!

Trying to strap HUZ.

Indeed.  That is a true exercise in futility.

My problems *started* when I went to all balanced audio.  Actually I think the source is probably that POS hamfest special mixer.  Needs a bit of bypassing in the power suckply.

Shoulda gone with the W2IHY box (running and ducking for cover...)

[W1UJR]

Can't let those 1-land pukes out do us!

Excuse me??

Who says 25 watts and a ricebox don't work?
We be "Whirl-wide" here good buddy, caw'n.

You guys coming to HossTraders this year?




.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Going to Dayton so that takes care of the road trip thing for a while. But JN and I may make it up for the fall HossTraders. We had a blast last year.

BTW, lest anyone think I'm just singling out the IHY stuff or being a pro-audio snob, I'm not. I also think much of the high-end pro-audio and broadcast processors (e.g. Orban 9000s and such), and high-end mics are a poor value proposition. Is this stuff good and does it work well? You bet. Will it make you sound hundreds or thousands of dollars better than the less expensive stuff or as Tom pointed out, little or no processing? Not in my opinion. Therefore they represent a poor value proposition.

[KL7OF]

[ (e.g. Orban 9000s and such), and high-end mics are a poor value proposition. Is this stuff good and does it work well? You bet. Will it make you sound hundreds or thousands of dollars better than the less expensive stuff or as Tom pointed out, little or no processing? Not in my opinion. Therefore they represent a poor value proposition.[/quote]

I agree.....and you hear very few homebrew speech amps any more...

[K1JJ]

About high-end mics....

For years I ran a $50 Radio Shark dynamic mic and played
around with those electret condensor cartridges. They all
sounded and looked "OK".

But about 5 years ago Mike/ZE gave me a used Electro-Voice
RE-20 with the boom and spring holder for only $200.  This
was like a new era in audio for me!

First of all, the mic setup looks like a $million bux. It feels
good to use and the effect never wears off. There's something
about the focal point of a station revolving around the microphone.

And secondly, for the first time I started getting unsolicited
good audio reports on both AM and ssb.  I'm not sure why
this is other than maybe the RShark mike sucked and the
electret condensor cartridge needed a better enclosure.
But now I have a smooth and flat mic output to work with.  

As a plug for EV... after I got it, it developed a loose cartridge
inside called "baby rattle" by EV. I called them and they repaired
it for FREE! They put in a  NEW cartridge and repainted the
body - like a new mike now. Lifetime gaurantee is no BS
with EV.

Bottom line is that for the magic, pure flat output, and
outstanding looks - and to mention again the lifetime
garantee AND holding its value, a USED Electro-Voice
RE-20 is a mike that every serious AMer should consider.

I think I spent much more than $200 over the years dicking
around and trying cheaper mikes. This is like buying a good
camera or telesope that will last you a lifetime.

T

RE-20 with "spring mount":