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Author Topic: EQplus by W2IHY... and the 897D Experiment  (Read 49427 times)
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Glenn K2KL
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« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2005, 04:10:19 PM »

It sure is! I've been using one (Behringer DSP9024 dual six band compressor limiter) on the air now for almost 2 years. It sounds incredible and it's a real bargain for under $199. Bill DUQ also uses one. I've seen them on E-bay for $100 used. Tom's right, the used equipment rack at your local music store (or E-bay) is the place to look for REAL audio gear. Bass and Treble control does not an equalizer make!

I also use the Behringer DSP8024 dual 31 band programmable equalizer. Another incredible bargain at $179 new. You can setup all kinds of different EQ curves and save them to memory which is a great thing... Memory 1 = normal flat resp. Memory 2 = bass boost and mid-high presence rise, Memory 3 = COMBAT MODE!!  :lol:  You get the idea... very handy device... These two units along with a good mike and mike preamp are all you'll ever need for external audio gear... but sorry, no special effects or roger beeps..  Cool .... oh yea, I also have an RE-20, but I've been using a Senheiser MD-421 lately. Both great mikes that get moved back and forth between my shack and recording studio all the time.

I'd bet money the hams that reviewed the IHY as best thing since sliced bread are not AM'ers.

...but please don't take me too seriously, after all, I'm not an award winning engineer...  :roll:  :roll:


Quote from: K1JJ
If a higher level of audio is needed, then one might spring for the Behringer 6 band? audio processor - that's probably the best deal out there these days. 73,
T


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2ZE
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« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2005, 04:59:34 PM »

Quote
DUQ and I do that almost evert Sunday afternoon with no problem


Lemme clarify.....
at 9PM on a friday night on 75.
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W1GFH
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« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2005, 05:38:17 PM »

Quote from: K1JJ
The RE-20 is a mike that every serious AMer
should consider.  I think I spent much more than $200 over
the years dicking around and trying cheaper mikes. This is
like buying a good camera or telesope that will last you a
lifetime.


So true.

Reminds me of the time in the 80's when they were
upgrading an in-house studio facility I worked for.  I
recommended an RE20 for the voiceover booth,
because it was (and still is) an industry standard.

To my dismay, a few weeks later, an RE18 was delivered.
I asked my boss what the hell was going on. He told me,
"I was looking at the catalogue and found the RE18
had nearly the same specs as the RE20 --but it was
$100 cheaper"  :cry:

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kc2ifr
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« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2005, 06:55:48 PM »

I use the RE-27 here and love the thing.....best $450 bucks I ever spent.
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Glenn K2KL
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« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2005, 07:22:16 PM »

Good thing your boss wasn't a recording engineer,.... two very different sounding mikes...

Quote from: W1GFH
Quote from: K1JJ
The RE-20 is a mike that every serious AMer
should consider.  I think I spent much more than $200 over
the years dicking around and trying cheaper mikes. This is
like buying a good camera or telesope that will last you a
lifetime.


So true.

Reminds me of the time in the 80's when they were
upgrading an in-house studio facility I worked for.  I
recommended an RE20 for the voiceover booth,
because it was (and still is) an industry standard.

To my dismay, a few weeks later, an RE18 was delivered.
I asked my boss what the hell was going on. He told me,
"I was looking at the catalogue and found the RE18
had nearly the same specs as the RE20 --but it was
$100 cheaper"  :cry:

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W1GFH
Guest
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2005, 07:46:58 PM »

Quote from: Glenn K2KL
Good thing your boss wasn't a recording engineer,.... two very different sounding mikes...


Sad  No kidding, it sounded like trash. But the boss was a bean-counter and proud he'd saved the company $100.

BTW, on AM, I am an adherent of the W2INR Method. I run an ART parametric Tube EQ into the transmitter - and that's all. The only thing that precedes it is a mike preamp w/phantom power to run the condenser. Less is DEFINITELY more.
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W1GFH
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« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2005, 08:05:01 PM »

Oh yeah, now THIS is a REAL microphone. I used to SWL a lot when Tim was using the RCA 44BX in his "pre-fire" period. The combo of handcrafted transmitter, ribbon mike, and Tron vocal stylings was simply incomparable.

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Jack-KA3ZLR-
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« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2005, 09:07:12 PM »

Speaking of the Tron, now that the thread has gone on into who knows where.. Cheesy

How's he doing, hows the better half, things going along OK..? I always like seeing pics of Tim, one of these days i'll get to meet him...someday.. Cheesy
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2005, 09:58:10 PM »

You got that right bro!

It's a fact that the bigger the signal you have the less audio processing you need. PWers need not subscribe to INR style audio.

It's hard to go wrong with proven dynamic mics like the RE20 and MD-421. I'd never buy one new though, poor value proposition once again. The worst is the RE27. This mic was a big marketing gimmick by EV.

The 27 was sold as an improved 20. But it wasn't long after the 27 was out that those with good ears could tell the 20 sounded better. Many who traded in their 20s for a 27  (EV even offered x dollars of the 27 price for a 20 trade-in) soon regretted it. Many ended up getting rid of their 27 and buying a 'vintage' 20 or getting a new one. EV made out like a bandit. First they sold a bunch of 27s at prices higher than the 20 was selling for at the time. Then they sold a bunch of 20s. They used the Coke/new Coke ploy and made it work, unlike Coke.

With very good condenser and now even ribbon mics selling for under $200 these days, some under $100, I see paying more than $200 for nearly any mic (no matter how "legendary" it may be) as a bad value proposition (unless you get a deal and the potential resale value is way up there and then this only makes sense if you sell it in the near term).

This value proposition applies only to amateur radio use of course. If you plan to do some home recording, or use the mic for other "pro" uses, then extra $$ makes sense.

Let's get real here. How flat does a mic need to be to make 50 Hz (and that's usually only those with a third-BA voice) to 5/6 kHz?


Quote from: 2ZE
Quote
DUQ and I do that almost evert Sunday afternoon with no problem


Lemme clarify.....
at 9PM on a friday night on 75.
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K1JJ
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"Let's go kayaking, Tommy!" - Yaz


« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2005, 01:26:09 AM »

Quote from: Steve - WB3HUZ
Let's get real here. How flat does a mic
need to be to make 50 Hz (and that's usually only those with a
third-BA voice) to 5/6 kHz?

You bring up the most important point, Steve.

**   "There's no substitute for a good voice"  .... period. **

We've all heard guys with great voices using a stock ricebox sounding
better than guys on a BC transmitter using all the audio goodies
but with an "average" voice.

The funny thing about it is that MOST of us have an average voice
by default - it's the bell curve of what society says sounds good.
Some on the extremes of the curve have high EGC type voices
while some have voices like these beer or car commercial
announcers. [The Kia Rio guy or Jay]  If EVERYONE had a
great broadcash type voice then the few that sounded high
pitched would then be in demand by society.

Society currently desires to hear a classic masculine/ bassy voice.
Back in the 20's - 30's I notice most announcers had higher voices.
The Spanish just love the low manly voice, if ya listen to their TV
shows. What's crazy is when most of us are sick with a cold or smoke
a lot of cigarettes and drink coffee clogging up the vocal cords,
we sound "great"!  I have a CD of myself when I had a wicked cold
a year ago that makes me sound so good I smile when I hear it. For
one day the guys couldn't believe my voice.  The ironic part is that
we sound good when we are sick or abusing ourselves....  :lol:  :lol:

It's like an ugly or beautiful girl. The beautiful one looks good
even without makeup.  The great voice needs little makeup.
[processing] The others need an EQ... [I sound like crap without an
EQ  -  too much muddy mid-bass]   But we're stuck with what we have.

I sometimes hear guys with great voices comment that they run
their audio flat. They can get away with doing it. These guys have
a very desirable and powerful peak in their voices at 120-150hz?  
But, many of us with average voices need to cut and suck out that
mid-bass 200-400 hz area with an EQ to sound decent.

But, once you find the right combination of audio gear settings to
make you sound "good", it's real satisfying to set it and forget -
just communicate and accept that you did your best with the
body you have to work with.

73,
T
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Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed.  Easily done in DSP.

Wise Words : "I'm as old as I've ever been... and I'm as young as I'll ever be."

There's nothing like an old dog.
K6JEK
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RF in the shack


« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2005, 11:49:42 PM »

Quote from: W1GFH


... less is more ...



Joe.  You really need to turn some of those knobs.  When they all point to 0 dB less is actually nothing.

BTW.  Joe Walsh just said on the AMI net that he's bringing a truckload of stuff to George's BBQ on 14th.  Maybe I'll go afterall.  Are you?

Jon
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W1GFH
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« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2005, 01:55:54 AM »

Quote from: K6JEK
Joe. You really need to turn some of those knobs. When they all point to 0 dB less is actually nothing.


Of course in the photo they are all at zero. You don't think I'd share my personal EQ settings with the world, do you? Smiley

Quote from: K6JEK

Joe Walsh just said on the AMI net that he's bringing a truckload of stuff to George's BBQ on 14th.  Maybe I'll go after all.  Are you?

Jon


I haven't been to the last couple, and I hadn't planned on this one. But if K6ESE is going up I might tag along with him.  Yeah, I heard Joe Walsh was bringing his stuff to sell. I don't know why that gets everyone excited. $5000 SX-88's and $10,000 KWM-1's are not my idea of a bargain.
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kc2ifr
Guest
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2005, 05:41:55 AM »

Hmmm,
Looks like I should have checked with Steve before I bought my 27. On air reports compairing my 27 with the B1 conderser were in favor of the 27 most of the time. I would bet the farm that if some ham were to get great audio reports and than told the listener ( one of the so called "audio experts") that he was using some equipment the listner considered sub-standard....the audio expert would change his mind and tell him his audio sucked!!!! One thing the "audio snobs" wont tolorate is being wrong. The audio subject is almost as bad as religon or politics. I was in the sound business for a few years and met many "experts" that fit the above example. If your on air audio is clean, no buzzes or pops.....we can understand u and your on AM...who gives a shit what u use.....BTW I think Behringer stuff sucks....but I dont go around telling hams who use it they sound like shit......
Had to get in my $.02 worth.
Let the flames begin....
Bill
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w3jn
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« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2005, 07:08:16 AM »

Bill, you have NOTHING to apologize for in the audio department.  I suspect in your case that comparing one mike to another is going to be like comparing a Rolls Royce to a Bentley.

In my case, I have $75 invested in my whole audio chain including the mikes, which are either a Shure 55S or the somewhat bigger EV look-alike (can't remember the number offhand).  I just like the way they look!

The compresser/limiter is a Gates SolidStatesman which was a gift from the HUZman, the EQ is a professional stereo 10 bander in a cast aluminum case ($5), and the mixer/mike amp is a recent vintage which cost $20 (2 for $40!).   I don't have that "FM DJ" voice, and the xmitters don't evidence the care and attention to detail for quality audio that some do, but it don't sound too bad.

73 John
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Glenn K2KL
Guest
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2005, 12:26:42 PM »

Hi Bill!

No flames, just calm cool collected discussion  Cool ... In all seriousness, please, if you hear me on the air and you think my audio sounds like crap, PLEASE, PLEASE let me know!! Don't hold back. There's nothing worse than getting a "sugar coated" audio report when it really sounds turd-like. I would think most folks want to know the truth.

 

Quote from: kc2ifr
Hmmm,
 .....BTW I think Behringer stuff sucks....but I dont go around telling hams who use it they sound like shit......Had to get in my $.02 worth.
Let the flames begin....
Bill
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2005, 04:48:10 PM »

Yo, MSDS, get a grip. No one on this thread said anything about YOUR audio, good or bad. No one said ANY RE27 sounded bad, including yours.

EV thanks you for your patronage.  :p






Quote from: kc2ifr
Hmmm,
Looks like I should have checked with Steve before I bought my 27. On air reports compairing my 27 with the B1 conderser were in favor of the 27 most of the time. I would bet the farm that if some ham were to get great audio reports and than told the listener ( one of the so called "audio experts") that he was using some equipment the listner considered sub-standard....the audio expert would change his mind and tell him his audio sucked!!!! One thing the "audio snobs" wont tolorate is being wrong. The audio subject is almost as bad as religon or politics. I was in the sound business for a few years and met many "experts" that fit the above example. If your on air audio is clean, no buzzes or pops.....we can understand u and your on AM...who gives a shit what u use.....BTW I think Behringer stuff sucks....but I dont go around telling hams who use it they sound like shit......
Had to get in my $.02 worth.
Let the flames begin....
Bill
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kc2ifr
Guest
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2005, 04:51:05 PM »

Hi Glen,
When I said that I dont like Behringer my point was that there are a lot of hams using Behringer stuff and they sound great. I could say otherwise because I dont like  Behringer but that would be stupid. All the stuff I use is broadcast stuff...but that doesnt mean I will sound great to everybody.
Ya know....... one thing about audio is  the simple fact that the quality is in the EAR of the beholder. There are so many variables and so many opinions of what "good sound" should be that its a never ending argument. I enjoy listning to ALL AM'ers.....sorta like they all have there own personality as far as sound is concered. If all of us sounded the same......IMO things would be VERY boring indeed.
Bill
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kc2ifr
Guest
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2005, 05:00:35 PM »

Dont worry Steve....my grip is just fine thank you....... :roll:
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Steve - WB3HUZ
Guest
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2005, 06:45:54 PM »

LOL! I'm biting my tongue. :evil:
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kc2ifr
Guest
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2005, 07:15:47 PM »

Biting your what Steve?Huh??...... :oops:
I just have one question.......why did u decide to bash the RE27......or just about anything else u dont like......enquiring minds want to know.... :evil:
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W2INR
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« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2005, 05:05:27 PM »

Ah I see we are in the old your opinion is welcomed as long as it agrees with mine syndrome.

This thread was about the IHY box.  We have seemed to move off topic here.

Oh by the way the 27 and the 20 are two differant mikes. The RE 27 is the next generation of the popular 666 (or something like that) ask Nick KG2IR.. The Re 20 was designed and has been in service for over 30 years. The 27 has been around about 10. They may look similar but the are two differant designs.

I bought my RE 27 10 years ago for around $400.00 and that is what the are worth today. I have sent mine in twice to be rebuilt for the cost of shipping. There was nothing wrong with it but I just wanted it refreshed.

 I wonder how much a B1 will be worth in ten years?

Okay back to the topic at hand - - - - -  -
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G - The INR


Amateur Weather Station KNYSYRAC64
Creator - owner - AMfone.net - 2001 - 2010
Founding Member - NEAR-Fest
SWLR-RNŲ54
wa1knx
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« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2005, 06:29:04 PM »

hi guys,
        havn't been in here for a while. out of work for about 3 weeks. the
job finally shipped to india. but i just got a contract job! back in the saddle!

     Gar, your setup sounds terrific. i like both the mikes, if you have
whats more important. that is the beef after the microphone. if you have
gobs of audio, super clean amplifier stages etc you sound like a million
bux with either.

yo - deano!
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am forever!
W2INR
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« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2005, 06:40:52 PM »

Hi Dean

Man I have not had the chance to work you out west this radio season!

Oh don't get me wrong.

I strongly believe that a microphone is the next most personnal thing to a person. Underpants are the first. They have to fit right and be comfortable and affordable, Briefs , boxers, and all the other crap are there because these are items of personnal taste. There are thousands of mics out there. All developed with differant applications in mind. They all work good and all will do the job. Some will sound better than others. Some of us will sound better on one mic than another. That's the way it is.

I try mics out before I will buy one. I want to hear how the mic sounds and how I sound with that mic. With each persons voice being differant there are plenty of mics out there to find one that best suits you.

Now to bring this back to the thread all of the above goes for processing too.  It's all a matter of taste and how YOU want to sound.
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G - The INR


Amateur Weather Station KNYSYRAC64
Creator - owner - AMfone.net - 2001 - 2010
Founding Member - NEAR-Fest
SWLR-RNŲ54
Steve - WB3HUZ
Guest
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2005, 08:07:17 PM »

Considering inflation and the cost of "refreshing", you're losing money on that 27. Coke lost money on their new Coke trick too.  :evil:



Quote from: W2INR
Ah I see we are in the old your opinion is welcomed as long as it agrees with mine syndrome.

This thread was about the IHY box.  We have seemed to move off topic here.

Oh by the way the 27 and the 20 are two differant mikes. The RE 27 is the next generation of the popular 666 (or something like that) ask Nick KG2IR.. The Re 20 was designed and has been in service for over 30 years. The 27 has been around about 10. They may look similar but the are two differant designs.

I bought my RE 27 10 years ago for around $400.00 and that is what the are worth today. I have sent mine in twice to be rebuilt for the cost of shipping. There was nothing wrong with it but I just wanted it refreshed.

 I wonder how much a B1 will be worth in ten years?

Okay back to the topic at hand - - - - -  -
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W2INR
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« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2005, 10:00:55 PM »

And who pissed your in your Cherrio's :?

Anyway I drink 7up. Cheesy
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G - The INR


Amateur Weather Station KNYSYRAC64
Creator - owner - AMfone.net - 2001 - 2010
Founding Member - NEAR-Fest
SWLR-RNŲ54
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