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Hit with 6kv yesterday... DON'T trust the Millen connectors!




 
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Author Topic: Hit with 6kv yesterday... DON'T trust the Millen connectors!  (Read 6017 times)
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Opcom
Patrick J. / KD5OEI
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« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2018, 01:43:28 AM »

and.. Euro stuff..
http://www.blf.it/neon-har-en50143
http://www.ceteletric.com/catalogue/speciali/ic-hv.htm

Italian, and from Venice. EN-50143 is a spec there now for HV and neon cables.

the links in other posts, Anco wire - looks about $37 for 100FT. more costly that gool ole GTO-15 but our lives are worth it, eh?
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« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2018, 08:33:02 AM »

Please explain why you don't want to use normal coax? With the shield connected to ground, it is just as safe as the 37$ cable.
I used RG58 at 4 kV 1,5 Amp for many years together with the HV BNC connectors. And if you need more, there are many other types of coax like RG8, RG213 etc.
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« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2018, 09:27:44 AM »

Not the same stuff, but found.

https://www.blackburnmarine.com/product/472/ancor-gto-white-high-voltage-coax-cable

Even has a pic of the braided end.

--Shane
KD6VXI

Search for "GTO neon wire" and you will see a lot of sources, including epay.

One fellow on epay says that the "other guy's" wire hardens and cracks, his is Silicone
by Technolux... fyi.  I'm searching now myself.

PA0NVD, this stuff is rated to 15kv. Also is supposed to be very flexible, a plus in some situations.
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« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2018, 10:38:12 AM »

The elephant in the shack...

Now that we're paying attention to our high voltage DC wiring, how about that un-shielded, un-insulated, 600 ohm, open wire transmission line coming out of the back of the Johnson Kilowatt Matchbox? High voltage RF is as dangerous as DC - probably hurts even more!

Let's make sure we route O.W.L. where no one will be able to come in contact with it, every foot of the way from the tuner to the antenna.

Personally, I use coax.

Don
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« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2018, 11:49:55 AM »

I've built power supplies to 12 kv before.  Necessitates a little better than rg58 or so.

There is quite a bit of different GTO style wire out there.  Some shielded, some not.

Turns out the shielded stuff is for marine vertical antennas.  Whodathunk that you'd need hv rated wire on a vertical?

I have aome of the stuff here that cracks.  Pulled it out of a building that had caught fire...  I wonder.



I've been but by my vertical before (on the car, ten meters) and as such always kept away from the owl.  But you bring up a good point.  Especially where it feeds through the walls.  Excellent spot for a arc, fire, etc.

--Shane
KD6VXI
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« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2018, 12:06:38 PM »

Please explain why you don't want to use normal coax? With the shield connected to ground, it is just as safe as the 37$ cable.
I used RG58 at 4 kV 1,5 Amp for many years together with the HV BNC connectors. And if you need more, there are many other types of coax like RG8, RG213 etc.

It's not that big a deal but it is an improvement when volts are high and it should allow a better enclosed cable and connector.
I also like voltage ratings to be 2X what is expected for safety and for avoiding surprise repairs.
The power supply can make 6KV so whatever wire is used should be for >12KV.
Coax might be fine within its limitations. For example a few sites give 5000V RMS for RG-213. To me that's 7KV, and it is short of my 'personal' safety margin.
GTO is usually #14, more Amp rating than I need, but TV CRT lead wire is rated higher like 20-40KV, sometimes can be found NOS for cheap. I suppose a question about coax would be, what cheap coax is rated for what voltage? If it says 'request quote' then time to click X.
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« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2018, 01:20:40 PM »

PE is DC rated at 20 kV/mm, PTFE at 60kV/mm. That means that RG58 has a breakdown at 36 kV. If you take a safety margin of a factor 5, which is ok for us, it will be safe at 7 kV. The current rating is max 4 Amp. including safety margin and an ambient temp of 40 degr. C. A higher current will result in degradation of safety due to heating.
There are few hams that like to transport 15 kV DC. I think is is NOT a good engineering practice to transport those voltage levels, than you need to combine all in one cabinet with there safety measures.
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« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2018, 01:26:57 PM »

Farnell states the data of the manufacturer as 15 kV DC for RG 58

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/84294.pdf
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« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2018, 01:07:01 AM »

Ok, maybe I'm amazed!  Wink

Here's the app note from Spellman HV company, a big US name in HV power supplies.
Looks like lowly RG-58 is quite good @<15kvDC!!

Who knew!

* SPELLMAN HV AN-07.pdf (370.53 KB - downloaded 39 times.)
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« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2018, 08:33:28 AM »

Yeah, I was looking at the specs for lmr240.

BIG difference.  Lmr rated to 1.5kv!

I also read that there is a HUGE diff between dielectric used in the coass.  So that is something to be aware of as well.

I have hipot that will run up to 15kv (iirc).  Whenever I get the stones back up to go turn the hv breakers back on, maybe I'll hi pot an old piece.



As to safety ratings.  I'll have to agree with opcom.  When in towing, everything was rated at half.  They would find the breaking limit of a chain / wire rope / snatch block / whatever based upon testing.  Then half that value and that was our WLL....  Working Load Limit.  And most would take higher than that.

In looking at the HV rated stuff, the mfg are even more cautious.  The connectors I bought are tested over 10kv, but rated to 5.

--Shane
KD6VXI
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« Reply #85 on: January 01, 2019, 08:23:06 AM »

Farnell states the data of the manufacturer as 15 kV DC for RG 58

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/84294.pdf

Thanks, I had not found that. Since it is stated in the data I have no argument.

Where can it be had in the USA for reasonable prices?

That is too often the issue, that there is the spec, but all of them either do not show a price, or insist one buy a 500FT spool.
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« Reply #86 on: January 01, 2019, 08:47:58 AM »

...any PE center insulated RG-58U should meet the spec. Belden for example.
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« Reply #87 on: January 01, 2019, 09:06:46 AM »

I agree with Bear, any USA or European RG58 is ok, perhaps except the poor quality Chinese products
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« Reply #88 on: January 06, 2019, 01:51:28 PM »

Week 3 pics.  Healing up.   Blisters and burned skin have almost all been flaked / sluffed / cleaned off.  The areas that are now not 'open' type wounds don't hurt anymore....  They are tender, but that's to be expected.

Have chest issues, dunno if they are related.  Going to pulmonologist, cardiologist and dermatologist as soon as my insurance approves.  Doc wants them on board in case anything pops up in the future.

Pain is about the same, 4 to 5 on the open wounds.  Since my motorcycle wreck that's pretty much life though.  I chose to go pain pill free in 2012.

In talking with my boys and yl, they seem to indicate a difference in mood / demeanor / whatever.  I seem to have gotten 'nicer'....  Not a bad thing by any means, I'll be the first to admit.

SHV connectors are almost here!  Going through soldering withdrawals!

--Shane
KD6VXI


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« Reply #89 on: January 06, 2019, 02:35:33 PM »

Wow, that first picture with the yellow pus tells it all.... much more graphic than the original injury pics.

Remember my story about getting belted with 800VDC that tore open flesh on my hand, 3rd degree burns and wounds that didn't heal for months?  Yours looks like mine after 3 weeks....pus pockets that don't go away.  It's dead flesh that needs to be regrown. Keep it clean and be very patient.   Mine took over a year until people didn't notice the scars in shock.

Congrats on going pain-pill-free since 2012.   Most take the easy way out.

All the best for speedy regrowth, OM.


T
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« Reply #90 on: January 06, 2019, 09:04:34 PM »


Pain is about the same, 4 to 5 on the open wounds.  Since my motorcycle wreck that's pretty much life though.  I chose to go pain pill free in 2012.

In talking with my boys and yl, they seem to indicate a difference in mood / demeanor / whatever.  I seem to have gotten 'nicer'....  Not a bad thing by any means, I'll be the first to admit.

Shane,

Your experience just turned from being educational to being inspirational. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Don
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« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2019, 01:00:03 PM »

One more week gone by.

My hand is really starting to come around.  Wounds have healed up and now they ITCH!  lol.

Still have to keep the burn cream / antibacterial on it.

My leg is still open.  Not a big opening....  But still raw.


--Shane
KD6VXI


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« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2019, 01:01:43 PM »

Second set.

All the pics in this and my prior post where taken last night, similar time to the previous ones.....  Just didn't have time to upload last night.

Got the SHV connectors in.  Hard to not head out to the shop!

--Shane
KD6VXI


* 20190113_204027.jpg (4344.44 KB, 4160x3120 - viewed 62 times.)
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« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2019, 08:46:27 PM »

[Wounds have healed up and now they ITCH!]

That is the nerves regrowing!


Glad you are well on the mend.  All the best, Bill.
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