My "New" 30K4

[K3YA]

I just brought home a new project Collins 30K.  The story goes that it was rescued from a dumpster in Fayetteville NC several years ago and came to me from K4ESE's collection.  The case shown here is a little rough with beat up paint and a chunk of the chrome trim missing.  The transmitter is also missing a few RF parts, the entire modulator deck, the plate and modulation transformers. 

I wonder how long it will take to get back on the air?  I'll post updates and photos of the resurrection if there is interest.

[Opcom]

That's a real find! despite the scarcity of original parts, you will enjoy bringing it back to life. No reason why you would 'have to' restore with original parts really. Nice decal!

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Wow, quite a project ahead of you, Charlie. Looks like a lot of the RF deck is missing, neither of the tank sections appear to be present. I wonder if the parts were used to resurrect another mod 4 or just scavenged before the thing was dumped?

The good news is, the -4 is the most numerous of the entire line. Many were used in commercial and gov't/military service. So specific parts aren't as difficult to find as some of the other models. As well, many parts are interchangeable between the -2, -4, and -5 models. That should make it a little easier.

If needed, manuals are online at JP/K4OZY's site, including a copy of my mod 5 manual:

http://www.jptronics.org/radios/Collins/

Also, if yours still has the ID plate attached to the back, would you mind sending me a private message with the serial number so that I can add it to the list? Currently in the process of updating the 30K site here including the list, and new additions are always welcome.

Best of luck with this ambitious project. You have a plenty to do, but a lot to work with and it's well worth the effort. And your mod 1 will enjoy the company.  Don't hesitate to contact me if I can help in any way. I'll put the word out that you're looking for parts, eventually something will surface.

[K5UJ]

Wow good luck; what a find--you will be very satisfied and proud of it when it gets on the air.  I would be content with just that if it were me and not sweat the appearance much but I have low standards 

[W3GMS]

Charlie,
Congrats on your latest find!  I am sure Howard, W3HM would do a great job on the cabinet and panels.  It may be worth a trip to see him!  I have a KWS1 cabinet for him to do.
Have fun....
Joe, W3GMS

[AB3L]

 I am sure Howard, W3HM would do a great job on the cabinet and panels.  It may be worth a trip to see him!  I have a KWS1 cabinet for him to do.

Good luck on a nice part of Collins history.

I hope you do better than me. I sent him an S-Line cabinet, got it back bent and a slobber paint job done. He told me to send it back, I did and then he sent it back the same way. I've dealt with him for a while and couldn't believe he left it this way.
BTW he has someone else do his paint.

[W2XR]

 I am sure Howard, W3HM would do a great job on the cabinet and panels.  It may be worth a trip to see him!  I have a KWS1 cabinet for him to do.

Good luck on a nice part of Collins history.

I hope you do better than me. I sent him an S-Line cabinet, got it back bent and a slobber paint job done. He told me to send it back, I did and then he sent it back the same way. I've dealt with him for a while and couldn't believe he left it this way.
BTW he has someone else do his paint.

I sent Howard Mills (W3HM) a late serial number 75A-4 a number of years ago for his full restoration service, and I was very happy with the job he had done, both electrically and cosmetically.

I believe that he uses powder coating for most, if not all of his cabinet and front panel paintwork. My experience has been that powder coating works well and leaves a nice finish if the finish being applied is a textured finish, such as the "crackle" or coarse sandpaper-type finish (for lack of better terms) as used on the Collins A-line. The cabinets for the S-line family of product used a smooth finish, and to get the best results, you really have to use an air-dry or oven-bake enamel to duplicate that smooth, thin-coat finish the factory originally employed. Oven-baked enamel finishes, properly applied, when compared to an air-dry finish, are best for resistance to abrasion, and for minimal orange peel.

I've never seen a smooth powder coated finish that even remotely resembled what can done by an experienced painter using good application equipment and oven-bake enamel. By comparison, a powder coated smooth-finish has a significant amount of orange peel, and the depth of the finish is too thick, often flowing into and filling seams in the sheetmetal, etc. I think that powder coating is more ideally suited to production work, such as the finishing of industrial equipment, and it may well have been designed for that very purpose. The baseline finish I shoot for, and which we are all familiar, is an automotive-quality finish, factory applied, on a late model car. But then again, I tend to be a perfectionist about these sort of things.

The other consideration is the fact that once applied, powder coating, unlike an enamel finish, may be difficult to remove. Most powder coating shops are loathe to repaint a job if the customer is unhappy with the initial result, due to the difficulty in removing the finish, which is typically done by glass or shot-beading. I suspect that is why AB3Ls S-Line cabinet was not redone; glassbeading that thin-gauge sheetmetal with sufficient pressure to remove the powder coating would have probably warped and ruined it.

Just my $0.02. I've done a lot of restoration and homebrew work over the years, and I've never used powder coating for any of it; only professionally-applied oven-bake enamel finishes for me. The exception, in the shack, was the W3HM 75A-4 restoration I had mentioned above. Your mileage may vary, of course.

73,

Bruce

[K3YA]

The project is moving along.  I cleaned it up, hooked it up, and turned it on to check the low voltage supplies and control circuits.  LV, bias and fil OK.  Control, not so good.  The photo that I posted earlier was just the bare cabinet before I put the sub-assemblies back in.

The plan is to clean up and touch up for the cabinet.  Build a simple modulator.  And rig it up for 160M operation with an external driver.  Maybe re-do the modulator deck and RF deck in the future.  I'm going to make it work, not restore it.

Took some more photos.  I'll load them up when I get a chance.

Charlie K3YA

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

That would explain the absence of the dual tanks.

Operating condition vs collector condition is certainly the better choice. Mod 4s aren't terribly rare, and a transmitter putting out a potent signal on the air trumps one with a bag over it any day in my book. Please do snap some shots and post them here when you get a chance. It's always good to see another old rig brought back to life.

[K3YA]

Making progress.  Here it is with the guts sitting back in the cabinet but not hooked up yet.


And here are the transformers ready for installation.


The plate transformer is in and all the power supplies are working.  I still have to stuff in the modulation transformer which is a very tight fit and will take some rewiring.  Then I build a modulator deck. I'm thinking of a pair of triode connected 4-125's.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

That looks like a RCA mod transformer. Considerably larger than the original! Bound to work better.

It doesn't look badly hacked, really. More like they stripped it out from the switchable 2 tank layout to a single, straight through version. They flipped one of the fixed caps from front to back, the extra tank is gone along with the extra relays and so on. The only big issue is the missing modulator deck. Since you're starting from scratch there, the 4-125 x 2 driving a single 4-400 ala T-368 would really rock. It has the later plate transformer, too.

A couple shots below of the back of my mod-5. You can see the considerably smaller mod iron in the bottom center. Someone also flipped the plate iron sideways. The insulators for the aerial are a two-piece Millen, you'll only need two with only one tank installed. Found mine at a hamfest. Think I have a couple spares. If you need them, give a holler. I see someone added SO-239s to yours at some point as well. As designed it was set up for two different aerials as well as allowing the use of two separate receivers, or one for both channels, depending how you wired up the three relays.

If you had the modulator deck with it, you could probably have it on the air this weekend. Even if the 75THs were roached or missing, you could stuff a couple 100THs in, adjust the bias and go. A pair of 4-125s should make it scream. Definitely a fun project.

[K3YA]

Thanks for the photograph of your 30K-5.  Looks great.  My RF deck looks empty by comparison.

The gray transformer in my picture is the Mod trany.  It's an old Collins with a 250 watt rating, a third winding for the screen, and a gap in the core so I don't need a reactor with it. I've use it before and it's a pretty decent piece of iron. I'm still fussing with the old HV wiring harness for the mod transformer.

The smaller transformer is for the plate supply. No markings on it and I have no idea where it came from.  I ran it in the 30K-1 for years so it should be OK in this transmitter. 
 

[W3GMS]

Charlie,
Do you still have your 30K1?  I bought one many years ago along with the matching Collins driver.  I still have it and it's a nice sounding transmitter.  The guy wanted $500 for it and at the time that was top dollar!  He made me sign a note saying I would not sue him if I got injured bringing it out of the second story of his home.  Old buzzard Bert, WA3JYU helped me move the beast.  Mine had the 4-250 replaced with a 4-400.  He gave me a brand new spare.  When we got it here at the house, I promptly dropped the 4-400 as I was taking it out of the box and it busted into a zillion pieces on the cement floor.  That is a horrible feeling that I will never forget. 
   
Joe, W3GMS

[flintstone mop]

Hi Charlie,
What level of restoration are you trying to achieve??? In operating condition and sounding nice and smooth??? The cabinet is a little worn, but not that bad. Make it sound nice!!!
Or do you want a museum piece???
Not being critical of Howard, but it's gonna cost you. And be prepared not to see the finished masterpiece for at least a year. He is ALWAYS 'backed up'. That has always been the answer when I ask, "Hey Howard how has things been going"?

I'm surprised he's still into that. Howard's been at it for a great number of years. I think he's getting a little tired of the business end of Ham radio and would like to get back on the air.

Fred

[K3YA]

250 watts carrier output!



I still don't have the modulator done.  I need another trip to my parents basement for parts.  Started moving out of my parents house 26 years ago, and I'm not finished yet.  Think I'll stop by tomorrow.  I wonder what mom's cooking.

[ke7trp]

Lookin good!

C

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

IT LIVES!!! Good work, Charlie. Nice to see a 125 blush a bit.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with stuff still stored at my parents' place. Along with a few radio trinkets and boxes of books, they're keeping an eye on my old gas pump globes, signs, and a Coke cooler among other treasures. Fortunately they have a barn. Not as easy to stop by from 800 miles away. Ma B makes great pocket cookies and pies, among other treats. Some of the guys here have been privy.

[W3GMS]

250 watts carrier output!



I still don't have the modulator done.  I need another trip to my parents basement for parts.  Started moving out of my parents house 26 years ago, and I'm not finished yet.  Think I'll stop by tomorrow.  I wonder what mom's cooking.

As my friend Bob Raide, W2ZM would say, its not red enough in the face!!  Gotta make it blush some more

Good work Charlie!

73,
Joe, W3GMS

[K3YA]

It's alive...Oops, not yet.

I put the rig on 3705 this morning and joined the roundtable of K4HX, W8IBF, WB4EZ, WA4PGI, and others.  I got some good audio reports and things seemed to be going along nicely until my second transmission.  Then a loud BUZZ followed by blown fuses.

I changed the bad fuses, old screw in type, with another pair used old fuses. And it didn't turn back on.  A half hour of testing later I discover one of the replacement fuses that looked OK was in fact open. 

So, I fire up the Filaments. OK.  I turn on the exciter and get grid drive.  Good.  I turn on the HV in the "Tune" position.  OK  I apply full high voltage and BUZZ.  The plate transformer growls like a mad dog.   Back to reduced HV and I can hear something in the bowls of the radio hissing and crackling like it's trying to arc over. 

It was fun while it lasted!  Got some trouble shooting to do this afternoon.

[W3GMS]

Well at least you have it narrowed down.  Take the load off HV transformer and see how it behaves.  Should tell you real quick where the problem is. 
I am not sure what parameters are set in the tune position is in the K-4. 
Hopefully your iron is good. 
Joe, GMS

[K3YA]

I believe that this 866 filament transformer is the culprit.


It does look a little worn on the outside.

[Steve - K4HX]

I may have a replacement for you. Send me an email.

I believe that this 866 filament transformer is the culprit.


It does look a little worn on the outside.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

If that doesn't fix it, let me know and I can send you a couple SS stacks to replace the 866s.

It was cool being there for your maiden voyage with the -4, Charlie. Considering the condition when you received it, the time from your receiving it to getting it on the air making RF is impressive, to say the least.

Was good seeing you at Frostfest, too. The SP-600 found a home, would've been glad to send it home with you instead. Good company for the flock of 30Ks.

[w3jn]

Get rid of those 866As... go solid state.  While pretty, mercury vapor rectumfriers have caused the death of many a transformer.

[W2PFY]

I too have noticed that Todd's 4-125 was glowing a bit more than Charleys. But that is just about the same amount of color that I routinely see on my 250TH when run at recommended voltage and plate current. That bright orange color must be near maximum dissipation.

Just thought I would pass this along to you lucky 30K owners

There is another tube out there in the 4-125 envelope that is not too well known.It is a 4D21A made by Eimac and Penta Labs. It has 175 watt plate dissipation where the 4-125 is 125 watts. The plate has fins but they are somewhat in a spiral rather than strait up and down. The filament current is the same. They are a bit hard to find but they are out there. It looks like a mini 4-400!