Copper thieves in action

[Bill, KD0HG]

..Looting the transmitter site of 50 KW KSL radio in Salt Lake.

But why didn't they call the cops right away? *Somebody* is watching and remotely panning the camera.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=14920982

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

It says they were watching, in the article. My guess would be response time was the issue. No idea where their site is, but my recollection of that part of the country is that it's spread out. Had an opportunity to ride shotgun on patrol around Kemmerer with the Wyoming Highway Patrol back in the early 90s, one trooper for an area the size of the state of VT, basically. The reason has to do with population density (or lack thereof) as much as budgets.
 
Trap guns work well. Just make sure your on-call engineers are awake before heading to the site at 2AM.

[KX5JT]

This is becoming more and more of an issue.... stealing copper... here we had candidates for the Darwin prize this week.... attempting to steal LIVE copper from an electrical substation...  justice dished out!


http://www.klfy.com/Global/story.asp?S=14346318

[flintstone mop]

UNfortunately when they start lifting the grounds, the substation will fault and destroy itself and cause electrical damage to the customers on-line.
The metal reclaimers need to start checking credentials of someone 'off the street' arriving with spools of wire or, like the b'cast station, NEW copper.
Name, address, driver license etc.

[Blaine N1GTU]

there was probably nobody watching at the time, the PTZ movement is probably automatic as the newer DVR's and PTZ cameras have software that can recognize humans and track them, keeping them centered on the screen.

[WD8BIL]

The scrap yards here in our area require drivers license/photo I.D. AND SS number before they will take your copper anything! Our shop regularly scraps out copper buss assemblies. The yards we use knows what they look like and who the company sends to deliver it. We've been called twice this year cause someone was trying to redeem assemblies they stole. Both perps got busted.

[KB2WIG]

Happy endings.

[KD0HUX]

Happy endings.

[k4kyv]

I was told by someone who works in law enforcement that a business in a certain state had to disable the sound portion of their security surveillance system because in that state it was illegal to make sound recordings without the permission of everyone involved, and that includes burglars breaking and entering a building.  If they had kept the sound track on the video recording, that would have been enough to have the case thrown out of court and they might have even been liable for civil damages or criminal penalties. Also, in that state it is even illegal to have a clandestine sound recording device set up in your own home, and a parabolic microphone is unlawful, even when used for recording bird calls! That same person claimed that the little thumb-drive size flash memory audio recorders you can carry in your pocket that Radio Shack sells are technically illegal to possess.

[K1JJ]

"...because in that state it was illegal to make sound recordings without the permission of everyone involved..."

I can see the motivation considering it's politicians writing these laws...

T

[K9PNP]

This is becoming more and more of an issue.... stealing copper... here we had candidates for the Darwin prize this week.... attempting to steal LIVE copper from an electrical substation...  justice dished out!

Job security.  The Darwin Awards will be more difficult to judge if these things keep up.  Will have to start giving points for originality, voltage available at the time, etc.

[KM1H]

Lowell, MA made it easy for thieves by requiring empty houses to be posted with a name and contact number. Now with all th copper being stolen by what often appears to be contractors, the city council is discussing to going back to the old way.

A couple of morons in the next town wound up like that photo during the last copper price escalation; it was also at a substation. It eliminates the bad genes from the pool

Carl

[Steve - K4HX]

That's true in most states and in Federal law too. It goes to an expectation of privacy. When you are out of doors, you have not expectation that no one will see you (video) but do have an expectation no one will hear your conversation(s), audio.

I was told by someone who works in law enforcement that a business in a certain state had to disable the sound portion of their security surveillance system because in that state it was illegal to make sound recordings without the permission of everyone involved, and that includes burglars breaking and entering a building.  If they had kept the sound track on the video recording, that would have been enough to have the case thrown out of court and they might have even been liable for civil damages or criminal penalties. Also, in that state it is even illegal to have a clandestine sound recording device set up in your own home, and a parabolic microphone is unlawful, even when used for recording bird calls! That same person claimed that the little thumb-drive size flash memory audio recorders you can carry in your pocket that Radio Shack sells are technically illegal to possess.

[k4kyv]

That's true in most states and in Federal law too. It goes to an expectation of privacy. When you are out of doors, you have not expectation that no one will see you (video) but do have an expectation no one will hear your conversation(s), audio.

But inside your own house or business?  Expectation of privacy on the part of trespassers and thieves pre-empts the expectation of the property owner to be secure in his belongings on his own property?

[K5WLF]

That's true in most states and in Federal law too. It goes to an expectation of privacy. When you are out of doors, you have not expectation that no one will see you (video) but do have an expectation no one will hear your conversation(s), audio.

But inside your own house or business?  Expectation of privacy on the part of trespassers and thieves pre-empts the expectation of the property owner to be secure in his belongings on his own property?

Things don't make sense anymore. Remember that episode in IA or OH a few years back where a farmer was burgled several times and finally set up a 'front door activated shotgun'. Unfortunately, it didn't kill the repeat thief, but only wounded him. When he recovered, he sued the farmer -- and won. The farmer -- the victim of the crime, remember -- lost his farm and was forced to declare bankruptcy because the damn criminal was given more rights than he was.

[flintstone mop]

Happy endings.

I remember seeing that one somewhere.....................they got roasted

And the same audio thing recording security video on a school bus.

[Steve - K4HX]

I was speaking generally. Each state and situation should be discussed with a lawyer. Can you ensure audio from outside your house will not be picked up and recorded? That's the kind of questions that will come up. Is it a one-party or two-party consent state, etc?

That's true in most states and in Federal law too. It goes to an expectation of privacy. When you are out of doors, you have not expectation that no one will see you (video) but do have an expectation no one will hear your conversation(s), audio.

But inside your own house or business?  Expectation of privacy on the part of trespassers and thieves pre-empts the expectation of the property owner to be secure in his belongings on his own property?

[K5WLF]

I was speaking generally. Each state and situation should be discussed with a lawyer. Can you ensure audio from outside your house will not be picked up and recorded? That's the kind of questions that will come up. Is it a one-party or two-party consent state, etc?

That's true in most states and in Federal law too. It goes to an expectation of privacy. When you are out of doors, you have not expectation that no one will see you (video) but do have an expectation no one will hear your conversation(s), audio.

But inside your own house or business?  Expectation of privacy on the part of trespassers and thieves pre-empts the expectation of the property owner to be secure in his belongings on his own property?

I've got a really huge soapbox on this subject, but let me do my best to bring it down to simple terms. When the victim has less rights than the perpetrator (criminal -- the lowlife that's trying to steal from, kill or the victim) something is dreadfully wrong and needs to be fixed.

ldb
K5WLF

[KE5YTV]

A lot of liberal courts are turning the laws upside down. Common sense seems to be in short supply today.

[Bill, KD0HG]

A lot of liberal courts are turning the laws upside down. Common sense seems to be in short supply today.

It could have been, and likely was, a trial by jury.

Maybe the same jury that awarded damages to the horribly burned and disfigured MacDonald's hot coffee customer a few years ago.

Yes, there is something unfair about these sort of verdicts.

[WD8BIL]

Ohio has the "Castle Law". A man and his castle has a right to be secure. This extends to the property lines so ifn you are threatened anywhere on your property you have a right to defend yourself.

The only drawback so far has been a few cases where the homeowner had a difficult time proving criminal intent on the part of the perp. Fortunately the juries were sane!

[Opcom]

Texas juries do not have much pity on the criminal vs. a law abiding citizen, but booby traps are illegal and would place the property defender in the status of criminal also. Audio recordings are permitted where a sign is posted, or, that is the practice. I've never seen a sign other than in English.

[K1JJ]

It's a whole new whirl out there now. Outlaws are bolder and nastier than ever before. Home invasions are getting more common. The wild west rises again.

The key to home security is to make the place univiting to the crook. His #1 directive is NOT to get caught. Everything else is secondary.  Thinking in those terms, we need to make our property a "mini compound." Crooks will take one look and move on to the easy hits down the street.

Over the last year there have been multiple break-ins around our formerly "peaceful" neighborhood. One guy lost $28K in a silver collection in broad daylight. There was a home invasion in CT with three murders that made national news. Enough was enough.  I added outside security cameras watching the whole house perimeter. I have motion detectors in a square perimeter on posts. A perp can't come within 30' of the house without an alarm sounding outside and in the house. I wired the whole house with the standard window, door and motion detectors, as well as hidden floor walk trips.  Monitored smoke alarms, and other saftey features were added in. The remote monitoring center uses redundent communications that I won't go into here. I added a visual camera doobell system. There are also 26 strategically placed flood lights outside programed to go off for various reasons, controlled by the main panel.

I also carry a 45ACP, 24/7, as well as other less lethal tools.  Actually, it's fun to think as a predator rather than as prey for a change.

The bottom line? I feel secure knowing this home and property are hard targets. I sleep well at night knowing the house is monitored and I am prepared with a plan. The key is to have a plan in the event of attacks of many kinds.  The payoff is when I see an obvious perp vehicle cruising the neighborhood looking for a hit. They are easy to spot. They just slow down, look at the perimeter cameras, motion detectors, floodlights and the security signs and drive on...

Surely a swat team could come in and take the house easily. But the average criminal will avoid this place - it becomes a last resort.  Maybe when times get better we can go back to normal life, but it's a tough whirl out there right now.

T

[k4kyv]

Things don't make sense anymore. Remember that episode in IA or OH a few years back where a farmer was burgled several times and finally set up a 'front door activated shotgun'. Unfortunately, it didn't kill the repeat thief, but only wounded him. When he recovered, he sued the farmer -- and won. The farmer -- the victim of the crime, remember -- lost his farm and was forced to declare bankruptcy because the damn criminal was given more rights than he was.

I believe most states have laws against setting booby-traps, and that's probably not a bad thing.  If the unconditional green light were given for booby traps, people would end up killed or injured for trivial, or imagined transgressions. Eventually it would be abused, and someone would attempt to get away with premeditated murder by setting it up to appear that the (trap) victim set off a booby trap on the innocent property owner's premises while trespassing or burgling.

Of greater concern to me is when someone breaks and enters a home or business and accidentally injures himself, and then wins a case against the property owner for damages.  I can't recall a specific incident off the top of my head, but I know I have heard news stories of this happening. For example, could I be held liable if someone broke into my ham shack while I was gone, and out of curiosity turned on the rig, and then managed to electrocute himself on the HV from my open-rack transmitter? What if I deliberately left the HV on overnight and a trespasser broke in while I was asleep?

There are "attractive nuisance" laws that could make someone liable, for example, if a young kid climbs an unprotected tower and falls off.  Again, probably not a bad thing, if interpreted with common sense (something that needs to be put on the endangered species act these days).  I have heard of a couple of cases where the property owner was held liable for negligence: in one case, a ladder was left in place after the owner had  repaired his roof, and a kid climbed up and fell off the roof.  In another, a trespasser fell into an open ditch while taking a short cut across the property after dark. But one case that stands out to to me as totally unreasonable, happened to a broadcast DXer or ham who lived on a farm out in the country and who had a beverage antenna strung across a field that was enclosed with a fence.  A lady decided to go horseback riding on the property without permission, and while she was crossing the field, collided with the antenna wire just at neck level, was knocked off the horse and severely injured herself.

As far as microphones and sound recording devices, I can't accept that the law has any jurisdiction over what kind of audio equipment I place inside my own home. That's nobody's business but mine. No-one has any expectation of privacy while inside another person's house. In fact, a readily available sound-activated security system records the audio and automatically dials the property owner's cell phone, then plays back the recording so he can determine if further action is needed. Besides recording bird calls, another legitimate use for a parabolic microphone is sniffing out line noise.  Some power companies use them to pinpoint the high frequency sizzle at a broken insulator or loose connection.  I think those outfits are sold for ham use, or at least  can be  constructed.  In fact, I have considered building one myself and have a small metal parabolic dish set aside for the purpose.

[W2VW]

No self respecting perp would ever break into Buckwheat's place.

perp

It's a whole new whirl out there now. Outlaws are bolder and nastier than ever before. Home invasions are getting more common. The wild west rises again.

The key to home security is to make the place univiting to the crook. His #1 directive is NOT to get caught. Everything else is secondary.  Thinking in those terms, we need to make our property a "mini compound." Crooks will take one look and move on to the easy hits down the street.

Over the last year there have been multiple break-ins around our formerly "peaceful" neighborhood. One guy lost $28K in a silver collection in broad daylight. There was a home invasion in CT with three murders that made national news. Enough was enough.  I added outside security cameras watching the whole house perimeter. I have motion detectors in a square perimeter on posts. A perp can't come within 30' of the house without an alarm sounding outside and in the house. I wired the whole house with the standard window, door and motion detectors, as well as hidden floor walk trips.  Monitored smoke alarms, and other saftey features were added in. The remote monitoring center uses redundent communications that I won't go into here. I added a visual camera doobell system. There are also 26 strategically placed flood lights outside programed to go off for various reasons, controlled by the main panel.

I also carry a 45ACP, 24/7, as well as other less lethal tools.  Actually, it's fun to think as a predator rather than as prey for a change.

The bottom line? I feel secure knowing this home and property are hard targets. I sleep well at night knowing the house is monitored and I am prepared with a plan. The key is to have a plan in the event of attacks of many kinds.  The payoff is when I see an obvious perp vehicle cruising the neighborhood looking for a hit. They are easy to spot. They just slow down, look at the perimeter cameras, motion detectors, floodlights and the security signs and drive on...

Surely a swat team could come in and take the house easily. But the average criminal will avoid this place - it becomes a last resort.  Maybe when times get better we can go back to normal life, but it's a tough whirl out there right now.

T