Straight from the Ham Fest to ePay

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Hey, the seller was happy enough with the price to let it go, so what do we care?

Bingo.

[W2WDX]

Hi all,

I guess I'm a "shark" by most of your standards, but let's get some perspective. There are two types on eBay.

The first is the guy who buys a radio that goes at Festers for a few hundred bucks and takes the thing, in whatever condition and sells it for top dollar, let's say $600. That sucks. He's a shark. And a douche!!!  

And there are the other guys ... like myself. I go to Festers because I can see the radio, determine its restoration potential, buy it at a reasonable cost, buy it, take to the shop and go through the whole thing top to bottom. When I am satisfied with the performance and appearance I list it on eBay for top dollar. When I sell it I go through huge steps to ship it properly.

For instance, recently I picked up a nice Viking II-CDC at the Southington, CT fester and have had it on my bench ever since. I bought it for a good price and will sell it for a good profit. But I know when it is finished whoever buys it will have a perfectly working, clean, plug & play (as much as these can be) version of a very nice transmitter, packed and shipped extremely well.

One example is an R390a I bought up at Boxborough. It was a dirty, basketcase, mechanically screwed up example I bought for $125. After $350 in parts, and a complete restore in every respect (two months of work) I sold it as a But It Now on eBay for $1400. The fellow who bought it was ecstatic when he received it. We have spoken on the phone about it and SWL a number of times since. He's happy, having what looks to him a "brand new" R390a.

Yes I know ... $1400 for an R390a! Sounds nuts to me also; I remember routinely seeing very good condition examples at festers regularly for $200. Not anymore. Good restores of these can get alot online. It is what the market bears. But only if its done right, backed up and shipped well. That's the caveat. If you're curious, here's a link where you can see this and other restores we've done and sold recently. You can see the original condition and the finished work that was sold on this page.

http://www.vikingvintage.com/wip.htm

Now ... as far as the notion that an Amateur cannot have a pecuniary interest in amateur products is absurd and is not a rules violation. And even occasionally letting someone know what you may have available from time or if asked ON THE AIR is allowed in the rules. You just can't so regular broadcasts or announcements of it or advertise on the air. To offer services, like a consulting business not related to amateur radio, is not cool and not generally allowed. Ask Glen Baxter. But if someone asks me what I have on the shelf right now, I can certainly mention it on the air.

I feel I am offering a good service for Amateurs. Those who cannot travel to Festers, who cannot repair/restore for themselves or don't want to, or even the guy who sees it and buys on impulse or has lusted over a particular radio since childhood. I know what people get from me works perfectly, looks great, and will work for years to come. It also helps make sure those who do want to operate boatanchors on AM sound half way decent right out of the gate.

Now I'm not selling anything here. I'm just giving an opinion on this topic from my perspective as a restorer.

To all you reseller naysayers ... I say ... pish-pah ya buzz-kills.   Just remember, if you snooze you lose at a fester, especially if I'm there!!!  

John LeVasseur, W2WDX
Viking Vintage

[W1UJR]

Reminds me of the debate which used to swirl around Joel, "The Radio Finder".

http://web.archive.org/web/20010923234313/www.radiofinder.com/

He's on my "Where Are They Now" list....


Radio restoration, if done properly is HARD work, and the ROI (Return On Investment) is quite paltry, ask me how I know.

I've done more than my share of restoration work, 2 AWA Blue Ribbons, and a Matlack award, write-ups in ER and QST and I'm taking a break. No way I could do it commercially, just too low a return on my time, its purely a labor of love.

W1FPZ TX - http://www.w1ujr.net/w1fpz_photo_essay.htm

Gross CB-25 - http://www.w1ujr.net/restore_gross_cb-25.htm

Collins 30K-1 - http://www.w1ujr.net/30k-1_restoration_photos.htm

Utah Jr. - http://www.w1ujr.net/utah_jr_photo_essay.htm (QST)

Lafayette PB-46 - http://www.w1ujr.net/lafayette_pb46a.htm (QST)

Multiples - http://www.w1ujr.net/restorations_past.htm

So if someone is doing it right, more power to them, thanks for saving a bit of history and bringing some joy into another person's life. If someone is making money flipping radios, I'd  rather see them doing that then pulling them apart, or see the sets going to rust in unused and forgotten about in someone's cellar.

Why do we care so much what other people do, if no damage occurs to items of historical value or it does not harm us directly?

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

[W2WDX]

Ha ... yeah really? Where is he.

For me, I always loved working on the boatanchors. It's what I liked to do in Ham radio, even more than operate. I just didn't have enough time. So when I reached the ripe age of 48, I decided it was time to stop mixing rock concerts (I was an audio engineer for 25 years) and do the thing I loved all the time. And make a living at it!!! Besides it was getting ridiculous being in my late forties, standing in the middle of an arena with 10 or 20 thousand screaming 10-15 year old kids, mixing My Chemical Romance. ARGH!!! I was experiencing my own ANGST ... at 45!!!

I just love the work.

Funny thing, now I have no time to operate. Ask any of the East Coast AM'ers when the last time they heard me on the air. I'm always at the shop. Oh no .... more angst!!!  

OH ... and UJR. It was seeing some of your work online (and others) that inspired me to do this. Finding the balance in doing it commercially is the real trick. I can't take the restorations as far as you have. Not without pricing myself out the reach of most Hams & SWL's who can really get some use and pleasure from this stuff. So I have to select the right pieces, plan well and know when to say enough is enough. Thanks for publishing your work.

John

[N0WEK]

Hi all,

I guess I'm a "shark" by most of your standards, but let's get some perspective. There are two types on eBay.

The first is the guy who buys a radio that goes at Festers for a few hundred bucks and takes the thing, in whatever condition and sells it for top dollar, let's say $600. That sucks. He's a shark. And a douche!!!  

And there are the other guys ... like myself. I go to Festers because I can see the radio, determine its restoration potential, buy it at a reasonable cost, buy it, take to the shop and go through the whole thing top to bottom. When I am satisfied with the performance and appearance I list it on eBay for top dollar. When I sell it I go through huge steps to ship it properly.

For instance, recently I picked up a nice Viking II-CDC at the Southington, CT fester and have had it on my bench ever since. I bought it for a good price and will sell it for a good profit. But I know when it is finished whoever buys it will have a perfectly working, clean, plug & play (as much as these can be) version of a very nice transmitter, packed and shipped extremely well.

One example is an R390a I bought up at Boxborough. It was a dirty, basketcase, mechanically screwed up example I bought for $125. After $350 in parts, and a complete restore in every respect (two months of work) I sold it as a But It Now on eBay for $1400. The fellow who bought it was ecstatic when he received it. We have spoken on the phone about it and SWL a number of times since. He's happy, having what looks to him a "brand new" R390a.

Yes I know ... $1400 for an R390a! Sounds nuts to me also; I remember routinely seeing very good condition examples at festers regularly for $200. Not anymore. Good restores of these can get alot online. It is what the market bears. But only if its done right, backed up and shipped well. That's the caveat. If you're curious, here's a link where you can see this and other restores we've done and sold recently. You can see the original condition and the finished work that was sold on this page.

http://www.vikingvintage.com/wip.htm

Now ... as far as the notion that an Amateur cannot have a pecuniary interest in amateur products is absurd and is not a rules violation. And even occasionally letting someone know what you may have available from time or if asked ON THE AIR is allowed in the rules. You just can't so regular broadcasts or announcements of it or advertise on the air. To offer services, like a consulting business not related to amateur radio, is not cool and not generally allowed. Ask Glen Baxter. But if someone asks me what I have on the shelf right now, I can certainly mention it on the air.

I feel I am offering a good service for Amateurs. Those who cannot travel to Festers, who cannot repair/restore for themselves or don't want to, or even the guy who sees it and buys on impulse or has lusted over a particular radio since childhood. I know what people get from me works perfectly, looks great, and will work for years to come. It also helps make sure those who do want to operate boatanchors on AM sound half way decent right out of the gate.

Now I'm not selling anything here. I'm just giving an opinion on this topic from my perspective as a restorer.

To all you reseller naysayers ... I say ... pish-pah ya buzz-kills.   Just remember, if you snooze you lose at a fester, especially if I'm there!!!  

John LeVasseur, W2WDX
Viking Vintage

Nice stuff and nice work!

[k4kyv]

So if someone is doing it right, more power to them, thanks for saving a bit of history and bringing some joy into another person's life. If someone is making money flipping radios, I'd  rather see them doing that then pulling them apart, or see the sets going to rust in unused and forgotten about in someone's cellar.

As much as it pisses me off to see audiophools drive up the prices of vintage triode tubes and broadcast quality audio transformers to the point that hams can't afford them for our rigs, I have to admit that a lot of this stuff would have gone to the land fill years ago if this new interest and demand hadn't appeared when it did.

[KX5JT]

Someone who owns something can ask whatever price they want for it.  If someone wants to spend that money, then it is NOT a ripoff, it's a business transaction that both parties agreed upon.  Plain and simple.  It's their business transaction.  It wouldn't even be "public" except that maybe it happened at a fester or on ebay.

Hey!  It's better than having the government regulate what we can charge right?

[Carl WA1KPD]

Hey!  It's better than having the government regulate what we can charge right?

  All you Need to Know about Government Bureaucracy:


** Pythagorean theorem: .............................................24 words.

** Lord's prayer:..........................................................66 words.

** Archimedes' Principle: .............................................67 words.

** 10 Commandments: ...............................................179 words.

** Gettysburg address: ...............................................286 words.

** Declaration of Independence : .............................1,300 words.

** US Constitution with 27 Amendments : ................ 7,818 words.

** US Government regulations on sale of cabbage:  26,911 words.

[KM1H]

Wrong Denny!

The right Denny was a blast, he had those same women after hours keeping his friends (me included  ) very happy.
His problem at Dentron and later Amp Supply was dipping it with his secretaries and his wives caught him and took him to the cleaners and killed the companies.
Talked to him a few months ago, he hasnt changed much, just slowed down. Taking money from audiophools is a lot more fun than arguing with hams

Carl

[Steve - K4HX]

Is there anything that is not more fun than arguing with hams?

[k4kyv]

Is there anything that is not more fun than arguing with hams?

You should know.  

[Steve - K4HX]

EITCH EYE!

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Is there anything that is not more fun than arguing with hams?

The Morris Code. It's serious business.

[WA2TTP Steve]

If the guy was really good he would have snapped a picture with a smart phone, written the copy with one the apps and listed it with a buy it now price that would have it sold before he got it home!

Steve

[W1RC]

Hamfest Rule #1: If you see something and think you want it, BUY it. Otherwise you might not get the chance later in the day.

Todd's right.  Even if you THINK you might want it buy it and decide at your leisure.  You can always peddle it if you don't want it.

I don't understand what the big deal is over selling something for more that you paid for it.  At $3.50+ a gallon and many miles to travel the costs to attend can be high and it is not unreasonable to try to recoup these costs if possible.

When you offer something on eBay you are giving the potential buyers an easy way to acquire items.  They don't have to get up at the a**crack of dawn, drive hundreds of miles to buy the thing.  All they have to do is point and click.  And pay of course.

73,

MrMike

[K1JJ]

I don't understand what the big deal is over selling something for more that you paid for it.  At $3.50+ a gallon and many miles to travel the costs to attend can be high and it is not unreasonable to try to recoup these costs if possible.
MrMike

So true, Mike!  

It reminds me of a time at Hosstraders back in the early 90's. A guy and his wife unloaded at least 50 of those heavy mechanical RTTY machines from a Ryder rental truck. Took them a couple of hours. They sat with those things in the dirt all day. I doubt they sold even one.  At the end of the fest they were fighting and arguing about something - easy to figure out what. They reloaded the truck with their gems and swerved home.

Another time there was a guy displaying NEW AC breaker panels with his wife. He was all excited about them and grabbing anyone who would listen. These panels go for maybe $100 bux new. For some reason he had a price of $1020 hanging off one. I looked it over and for the life of me could not understand why it cost so much. He stood like a zombie later on thru the fest as people steered clear of the table. Some just stifled their laughs.


sigh... My point is: Anyone can charge anything they want for their products and services. The marketplace will tell them if they are right or wrong. If wrong, they will quickly be out of biz. If average, they will break even of expenses. If efficient, they will make money...  If done honestly, it takes a lot of work and smarts to make money consistenly in any competitive marketplace. For the most part, the ham radio hobby is a cash-sink for the majority of us. (At least it is for me)  ..

T

[W1DAN]

Hi:

I buy something, clean it up, get it working well and use it. If I no longer want it, I sell it for the same amount. Sometimes I take a loss. I sleep well at night.

As far as refurbing and re-selling for a higher price, there is value added. So if one puts big money into the test bench, how many radios does it take to buy, refurb and sell to just break even on the venture. How much time is spent?

I take joy in getting these old rigs working. I know I could not make a living at it, nor would I want to. It would then be called work. ;-)

One time I sold a box of tubes at a flea for $20.00. The guy who bought it put the same box of tubes on his table and was asking double. I told him to wait till the next flea before rubbing my nose in it.

I MUCH prefer to give good deals to those that use the radio instead of flipping.

Dan

[k4kyv]

Another time there was a guy displaying NEW AC breaker panels with his wife. He was all excited about them and grabbing anyone who would listen. These panels go for maybe $100 bux new. For some reason he had a price of $1020 hanging off one. I looked it over and for the life of me could not understand why it cost so much. He stood like a zombie later on thru the fest as people steered clear of the table. Some just stifled their laughs.

I wonder if that was an inadvertent misprint.  Maybe he is dyslexic and really intended it to be $12.00

Or he could have been serious.  Reminds me of the time I dug out a half dozen unboxed and unwrapped tubes from a half-full cardboard box of random receiving type tubes under a vendor's table.  Most of the other tubes were dirty and obviously used, but these were clean and new looking, marked 2A3H. These appeared to be special 2A3s with an indirectly heated cathode instead of the usual directly heated filament, but otherwise identical to regular 2A3s, with the same glass envelope, plate structure and 4-prong socket.  I asked the guy what he wanted for them, and he replied "one and a half" apiece.  So I pulled out a $ten and handed it to him, expecting $1 back as change.  He gave me a strange look and then informed me he was asking $150.00 each for them.  Naturally, I carefully placed them back in the box, leaving them for the first audiophool who might come along and be willing to throw away that kind of money.

It tends to piss me off to see some of this stuff marked way up with no obvious value added, but it can work the other way, too. Back in 1970, I was looking for a second 5/25 henry 1A swinging  choke to match the UTC commercial grade one I had in my transmitter.  At that time new ones were still listed in the catalogues for about $109 (1970 dollars) plus shipping/handling.  At a hamfest that summer I noticed a vendor with what looked like a UTC choke sitting under his table, in about a 1" deep mud puddle no less.  Upon closer examination, I discovered that it was identical to the one I had in my rig, precisely the second choke that I was  looking for.  It was brand-new looking, spotlessly clean except for the mud from under the guy's table.  It even had the new-in-the-box transformer smell of fresh paint and varnish.  Obviously, the guy had it still sealed in the factory box until he removed it that morning to display at the flea market.  I figured if he would just set it on the ground in the middle of a puddle of water  he didn't have a clue what he had.  So I put on kind of a dumb-ass act, and asked him how much he wanted for "that ol' transformer lookin' thing under the table". He replied "$1" and seemed anxious that I might change my mind and leave without taking it, as I was digging through my pockets trying to find a $1 bill.

[K1JJ]

I figured if he would just set it on the ground in the middle of a puddle of water  he didn't have a clue what he had.  So I put on kind of a dumb-ass act, and asked him how much he wanted for "that ol' transformer lookin' thing under the table". He replied "$1" and seemed anxious that I might change my mind and leave without taking it, as I was digging through my pockets trying to find a $1 bill.

 Classic!  How we all love those kinds of deals.  Probability says we will run across these things sometimes.


My "gift" was finding a box of brand new, modern, tennis ball size, ceramic, high quality silver plated RF capacitors at Nearfest about five years ago. (1000pf at 15KV) These are the type used in high-end RF transmitters  and go for several hundred $ bux each, new.  They sat on a table that was very neat and orderly, so I figgered he wanted big bux.  On a whim I offered him $5 for the box thinking he would laugh and then counter me. He took it immediately. The guys I was walking with almost blew a gasket as we walked away.  I use them today in two of the big rigs as plate coupling caps and gave two away for big linear projects..  

T

[W1DAN]

OK..

My best to date was the Inovonics 222 limiter I bought for $5.00 at NearFest a year ago.

I still smile when I think of that purchase.... :-)

Dan

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

It tends to piss me off to see some of this stuff marked way up with no obvious value added, but it can work the other way, too.

Yep, how often do you hear the same people who complain about prices also complain that someone is charging too little? They're the first to brag to anyone who will listen at the hamfest when they get a deal, and the first to bitch about someone selling something for $XYZ on ebay.

Like the recent thread where some are gleeful at the thought of ebay getting those greedy sellers under control for what they ask for shipping (no one is making anyone buy, mind you), the same thing has gone on forever at hamfests. Those who truly are charging too much, defined by what the current market (attendees) will bear, end up loading it all back up. I categorize these folks as very 'proud' of their items, that they're willing to go through so much to transport or list them, only to end up keeping them at the end of the day. Those who came with the intention of moving stuff generally do. In the end, it takes care of itself, no price police required.

And I, like others, have gotten my share of good deals over the years.   So no complaints here. Even if someone pays more for something I'd like to have, there's comfort in knowing that I could've bought it if I chose to. It just didn't hold that level of value for me, or mean as much. Others apparently get far more involved or attached through envy, jealousy, or whatever other emotion controls them over the item. Life's too short for that.

[KM1H]

Jeez, and Todd, Johnny, etc bitch about me coming home with cheap deals.

Many times I'll own 3-5 of the same model until I get a keeper or swap a few better looking parts around. Then that gets fully restored and used. The others get a full recap, resistors, and whatever else is needed to put it in original or petter playing condition.  A few hours is spent on cosmetics and maybe even a complete paint strip and a spray booth paint job with new paint in the panel engravings. Then off to Fleabay for usually pretty good bucks.

I stay away from Hallis, Johnson or others with bad panels as Ive no intention of paying some ham bandit $200+ for a silk screen repaint even after saying I will provide a ready to screen panel. I can paint better than some of what Ive seen them do and have car trophies to prove it.

Carl

[Opcom]

    I enjoy my profit businesses but do not call them hobbies. Good profit to cover much prototyping and using components of 20 to 50 % higher cost.  Tearing apart other manufactures similar items.  R&D.  Production.    Sales including compensation for schill's, beautiful women, etc.

I category my non-profit businesses as hobbies where I greatly loose any profit margin,  time,  patience, efficiency, etc.  


   Beautiful Elegant Scantly clad Women always make the best Schill's. Ask Denny , Dentron or Herb Iby.

I met the Ohmite Girl at a power supply convention earlier this month. She had on a lab coat, not exactly scanty.

[Steve - K4HX]

They were talking about Denny's girls.

Jeez, and Todd, Johnny, etc bitch about me coming home with cheap deals.

[Jim KF2SY]

Hey John, on your website you show a DX100.  Whats that mystery knob just above the CW-Phone mode switch for ?  Added feature ?
 

Hi all,

I guess I'm a "shark" by most of your standards, but let's get some perspective. There are two types on eBay.

The first is the guy who buys a radio that goes at Festers for a few hundred bucks and takes the thing, in whatever condition and sells it for top dollar, let's say $600. That sucks. He's a shark. And a douche!!!  

And there are the other guys ... like myself. I go to Festers because I can see the radio, determine its restoration potential, buy it at a reasonable cost, buy it, take to the shop and go through the whole thing top to bottom. When I am satisfied with the performance and appearance I list it on eBay for top dollar. When I sell it I go through huge steps to ship it properly.

For instance, recently I picked up a nice Viking II-CDC at the Southington, CT fester and have had it on my bench ever since. I bought it for a good price and will sell it for a good profit. But I know when it is finished whoever buys it will have a perfectly working, clean, plug & play (as much as these can be) version of a very nice transmitter, packed and shipped extremely well.

One example is an R390a I bought up at Boxborough. It was a dirty, basketcase, mechanically screwed up example I bought for $125. After $350 in parts, and a complete restore in every respect (two months of work) I sold it as a But It Now on eBay for $1400. The fellow who bought it was ecstatic when he received it. We have spoken on the phone about it and SWL a number of times since. He's happy, having what looks to him a "brand new" R390a.

Yes I know ... $1400 for an R390a! Sounds nuts to me also; I remember routinely seeing very good condition examples at festers regularly for $200. Not anymore. Good restores of these can get alot online. It is what the market bears. But only if its done right, backed up and shipped well. That's the caveat. If you're curious, here's a link where you can see this and other restores we've done and sold recently. You can see the original condition and the finished work that was sold on this page.

http://www.vikingvintage.com/wip.htm

Now ... as far as the notion that an Amateur cannot have a pecuniary interest in amateur products is absurd and is not a rules violation. And even occasionally letting someone know what you may have available from time or if asked ON THE AIR is allowed in the rules. You just can't so regular broadcasts or announcements of it or advertise on the air. To offer services, like a consulting business not related to amateur radio, is not cool and not generally allowed. Ask Glen Baxter. But if someone asks me what I have on the shelf right now, I can certainly mention it on the air.

I feel I am offering a good service for Amateurs. Those who cannot travel to Festers, who cannot repair/restore for themselves or don't want to, or even the guy who sees it and buys on impulse or has lusted over a particular radio since childhood. I know what people get from me works perfectly, looks great, and will work for years to come. It also helps make sure those who do want to operate boatanchors on AM sound half way decent right out of the gate.

Now I'm not selling anything here. I'm just giving an opinion on this topic from my perspective as a restorer.

To all you reseller naysayers ... I say ... pish-pah ya buzz-kills.   Just remember, if you snooze you lose at a fester, especially if I'm there!!!  

John LeVasseur, W2WDX
Viking Vintage