The AM Forum

I went to the Midwinter Madness fest this morning in Buffalo, MN. I saw a really nice Drake 2B and it's Q-Multiplier/Speaker...$265 for the pair. I wasn't really there to buy anything big but I thought about it. When I came back around it was already sold along with a really nice HQ-170. After I get home and take a look at ePay, all three units are already listed about 2 hours after the fest was over by the local ePay shark!

I did get an OK deal on a HQ-145 that I'm listening to now on just 10 feet of hook-up wire for an antenna; it does need the switches and pots cleaned but it seem pretty good even as is.

I got a few parts and a pair for 8643s for the Viking I.

I have seen that happen without even leaving the hamfest.  You see an item at one table, then pass by an hour or so later and it's gone, only to be found at another table with a substantially higher price tag.

Good. He made some money. They're just radios, not the crown jewels or the holy grail.

Agree, forget the radios.  Go for the Crown Jewels:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-CROWN-JEWELS-Chunky-Charm-Bracelet-Necklace-/180645131022?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0f49f30e

Better yet, here's the Holy Grail:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARID-DJINN-BOUND-VESSEL-CHALICE-HOLY-GRAIL-AVALON-SET-/180644262556?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0f3cb29c

What's sad was the time I saw an under-priced audio amp on a table.  

Guy ahead of me paid the $10, pulled out the pair of 6CA7 and walked away.

The 2B isn't a big deal, but what if it is something rare or fragile, the buyer/seller doesn't know how to pack it well and it gets smashed in shipment after the eBay auction.   At least when something is sold to a ham at a fest, it is probably going to him in the trunk of his car and he knows how to use it.

What if the guy that buys it at the hamfest doesn't know anything and goes home and fires it up with shorted caps and fries the power transformer? It's their radio. They can do with it what they wish. Would you want someone telling you what to do with your radios?

Suggesting  but   not  telling.

When I was helped for free by many Old Timers how to enter the Non-Profit Hobby called Ham Radio. The majority would suggest to me and my beginner piers That if we purchased something we should never pass it along for financial gain. I didn't mind the thought for it could never be enforced by anyone. I don't mind if someone tells me what to do with the things I own for I'm going to make my own decision anywho ! I find others opinions the fun part of Ham Radio weither I agree or disagree with them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think what he's doing is wrong, just kind of unfortunate!

He'd be perfectly legal to buy it and take it out to the parking lot and crush it with a hammer too.

I've got the auctions bookmarked and it'll be interesting to see what they go for; heck if they don't go for more than about the price he paid I may buy them, I can just go over and pick them up, no shipping or damage. I've bought from him before. Local is an advantage since you're ahead of non locals by whatever the shipping is.

Or more likely, couldn't care less now that got his money.  He might have even cleared minimum wage (!) after he calculates time spent at the fest, and then time spent packing the stuff and hauling it to Fedups,  minus the cost of packing material, containers and ePay fees, versus whatever mark-up he was able to achieve on the sale.

And then you have that bottom-feeder from England (now living in KY) who is notorious for listing "mint condition" stuff, getting top dollar on ePay, then shipping out worthless junk (when he is not parting out good equipment because he thinks the sum of the parts might bring in more than the whole).

As cheap as most hams are, I couldn't think of a more miserable way to make money, selling used equipment at hamfests or over ePay. This is different from the traders who show up at hamfests because they like to buy, sell and swap gear, and actually use some of the stuff they bring home, and maybe skim off the best of what passes through their hands to keep for themselves.  I could enjoy doing that, except I don't want to be confined to a flea market spot all day and miss out on the solid gold modulation transformer made in 1929 that may be lurking under someone else's table.  That's why I don't bring my own stuff to pawn off; my gawd I have plenty of it I would like to get rid of.

If I were just in it for the money, I think I'd apply instead for a job as greeter at Wal 'o ChinaMart. At least, more of the people I would meet would be attractive and practise personal hygiene.

BTW Rob, I couldn't resist posting a response on Tower Talk regarding brazing the radials. I'm still working on the one for this BB.

I cannot find the terms non-profit or hobby in Part 97. Your OT buds were misinformed.

You're right Rob. Some of these flippers are in their own self-made hell.

Pecuniary Gain ?   ;D  ;D  ;D

It's pecuniary interest. The actual text is:


I don't see any text that does not allow an amateur radio licensee to sell radios or anything else at a profit or otherwise. They just can't do it regularly on the air. That section, (ii) makes me wonder about the legality of on-air swap nets.

Well of course a buyer can do anything he wants with his purchase; he can buy a SX88, get drunk, and carry it into the street and smash it if he wants and no law is violated, except maybe public drunkenness.   I was just offering my opinion that some of it is sad to me.  

Hey don, I saw ur brazing post--FB  :D

The flip side:  The fellow at the other end of the country who is ecstatic to buy that radio tonight.  He's been looking for that model for years, and without Ebay he never would have found it. 

Everbody ends up happy:

The final owner
The Ebay middleman
The hamfest seller
The hamfest sellers' wife!

Capitalism at work

Yet I never hear the whiners complain when their stock portfolio takes a big jump up and they skim the Big $$ off the top.

Id say the "Ebay Shark" is simply doing the same as a car salesman taking in your trade in at well below book and reselling it at a tidy profit.

The best way to get ham gear is through a friend who treats you right. But that is not alway possible.

That said,  I agree that MOST flippers provide a needed service, especially when they buy locally and resell the item nationally.

Just like ANY marketplace in the whirl, the more participants, the better the liquidity. The better the liquidity, the easier to buy and sell at a "fair" price. Illiquid markets are for suckers looking to get reamed.  

Speculators are a key ingredient to liquidity. In stocks and commodity markets they take the form of day traders, hedgers and scalpers. In the ham marketplace, they are the flippers.  

Speculators (and flippers) would be out of business quickly if their prices or services were way out of line. They come and go, depending upon how efficient they are.  

Whenever I need something for a project (and usually yesterday) I don't really care who I buy it from - as long as I can find it at a reasonable price and get it here quickly.

In a thousand years, it won't really matter who made a profit on anything. All that will matter is if I found the parts to finish my project or not... ;D

T

I am not offended by ebay flippers. Annoyed only in case I really wanted the item and didn't find it for less, first. I know a couple of them folks. They make a living off finding 'stuff' and reselling it.

One amazing sale was an old Altec theater speaker, huge item. He paid $5000 for it because the owner was certainly no fool and wanted a decent price, and had it sold the next week for $11K. Both were happy.

One guy wanted to know the identity of a person for whom I put up a website of electronics junk. The junk-owner was sort of a recluse and did not want to be bothered for 90 days (till fall) but agreed to meet the potential buyer then.
During that 90 days, the prospective peruser of junque gave me many items of good value which I really tried to refuse, and none of that was necessary. I have no issue with that, but I did keep telling him that it was not necessary to give me anything, did he want to trade, etc? - but all he really wanted was for me to introduce him to the guy with the hoard, which I had planned on doing, certainly for free.
I had a BA-6A I did not want to get rid of and he just kept asking for it until after a few months when he was visiting I stated an obscene price and he got out the benjamins without a raised eyebrow, because it was something he himself wanted.
That really showed me something about ebay flippers. Those guys roll with the big hoards and the big $ and it is as well to be on kind terms with them as one would be with anyone else.

k4kyv - When an item switches tables and the price goes up, it can backfire on the would-be profiteer if they are greedy. Seen it happen at 5AM on a $1200 item after his $2400 price was mocked at 9AM. He wanted his cash back from me but I said no. The catalog price was $20K and it was only 5 years old, fair sale and I did not want to take it home. The guy made himself a bad deal because of greed. I bet a lot of them do that.

WA3VJB - did you then get the amplifier for the iron? The tube-puller may have cheated hmself if the tubes were soft. Someone got that audio amp iron!!

K1DEU - I'm not sure I agree completely about not making any profit off equipment sales but I seldom make anything off a sold item. Usually items are sold for less than what's in them because I want them gone quickly or have already used them for 2 decades and don't feel like I need to extract much value. I just pass them along remembering how at one time I was broke and needed equipment. The few times I have had to demand a 'fair price' (ham translation: 'exhorbitant price') was when it was an estate. If you figure out a way to get rich off ham radio without accumulating a multitude of sins let me know!

N0WEK - A guy got disgusted and hefted three 18" cube boxes of smallish transformers into the hamfest dumpster because no one would pay $10 per box. Being 20 years old and not bothered by the acrobatics of getting in and out, I dug them out once he was gone. Probably used 20-30 of them, gave as many away..

Why did you wait for the guy to leave before you dumpster-dove?  He didn't own the hamfest dumpster and once property is abandoned in a public place, it's fair game for the taker.  I would have dug them out while he was still there, and looked at him and smiled as I  hauled the stuff away.

I have pulled many an item out of hamfest dumpsters at the end of the day.  It's amazing the stuff people will throw away because they don't want to haul it back home.

It's all a matter of how you look at it ;D ;D

I'm just glad that HRO, AES, and those other amateur retailers out there aren't selling their equipment for a profit. What would we do then? *wrings hands nervously*  ::)

Hamfest Rule #1: If you see something and think you want it, BUY it. Otherwise you might not get the chance later in the day. Especially if Carl & Johnny are there too. The ebay flippers are the least of your worries, there are guys out there willing to buy it to use and enjoy, maybe sell later. Ebayers will only buy it if it's cheap enough to make enough profit on. And as has been pointed out in previous threads, when you figure your time, transportation, whatever else into the equation, the profit margin tends to evaporate rapidly.

Good advice.  How many times have we seen something and been on the fence (especially early in the fest) moved on, then 3 minutes later decided to grab it only to find it gone?

     I enjoy my profit businesses but do not call them hobbies. Good profit to cover much prototyping and using components of 20 to 50 % higher cost.  Tearing apart other manufactures similar items.  R&D.  Production.    Sales including compensation for schill's, beautiful women, etc.

I category my non-profit businesses as hobbies where I greatly loose any profit margin,  time,  patience, efficiency, etc.  


   Beautiful Elegant Scantly clad Women always make the best Schill's. Ask Denny , Dentron or Herb Iby.

Hey, the seller was happy enough with the price to let it go, so what do we care?

Hopefully everybody wins:

-The original seller got enough to make him happy.
-The flipper makes some money.
-The winning bidder got something he wants.
I have let stuff go for far less at Nearfest than I could have gotten on eBay simply because I did not want to hassle with the listing,shipping etc.

Carl
/KPD
 

Most of the girls I see at Denny's are pretty well covered in clothes....


klc

Bingo.

Hi all,

I guess I'm a "shark" by most of your standards, but let's get some perspective. There are two types on eBay.

The first is the guy who buys a radio that goes at Festers for a few hundred bucks and takes the thing, in whatever condition and sells it for top dollar, let's say $600. That sucks. He's a shark. And a douche!!!  ::)

And there are the other guys ... like myself. I go to Festers because I can see the radio, determine its restoration potential, buy it at a reasonable cost, buy it, take to the shop and go through the whole thing top to bottom. When I am satisfied with the performance and appearance I list it on eBay for top dollar. When I sell it I go through huge steps to ship it properly.

For instance, recently I picked up a nice Viking II-CDC at the Southington, CT fester and have had it on my bench ever since. I bought it for a good price and will sell it for a good profit. But I know when it is finished whoever buys it will have a perfectly working, clean, plug & play (as much as these can be) version of a very nice transmitter, packed and shipped extremely well.

One example is an R390a I bought up at Boxborough. It was a dirty, basketcase, mechanically screwed up example I bought for $125. After $350 in parts, and a complete restore in every respect (two months of work) I sold it as a But It Now on eBay for $1400. The fellow who bought it was ecstatic when he received it. We have spoken on the phone about it and SWL a number of times since. He's happy, having what looks to him a "brand new" R390a.

Yes I know ... $1400 for an R390a! Sounds nuts to me also; I remember routinely seeing very good condition examples at festers regularly for $200. Not anymore. Good restores of these can get alot online. It is what the market bears. But only if its done right, backed up and shipped well. That's the caveat. If you're curious, here's a link where you can see this and other restores we've done and sold recently. You can see the original condition and the finished work that was sold on this page.

http://www.vikingvintage.com/wip.htm (http://www.vikingvintage.com/wip.htm)

Now ... as far as the notion that an Amateur cannot have a pecuniary interest in amateur products is absurd and is not a rules violation. And even occasionally letting someone know what you may have available from time or if asked ON THE AIR is allowed in the rules. You just can't so regular broadcasts or announcements of it or advertise on the air. To offer services, like a consulting business not related to amateur radio, is not cool and not generally allowed. Ask Glen Baxter. But if someone asks me what I have on the shelf right now, I can certainly mention it on the air.

I feel I am offering a good service for Amateurs. Those who cannot travel to Festers, who cannot repair/restore for themselves or don't want to, or even the guy who sees it and buys on impulse or has lusted over a particular radio since childhood. I know what people get from me works perfectly, looks great, and will work for years to come. It also helps make sure those who do want to operate boatanchors on AM sound half way decent right out of the gate.

Now I'm not selling anything here. I'm just giving an opinion on this topic from my perspective as a restorer.

To all you reseller naysayers ... I say ... pish-pah ya buzz-kills.  :D Just remember, if you snooze you lose at a fester, especially if I'm there!!!  ;D

John LeVasseur, W2WDX
Viking Vintage

Reminds me of the debate which used to swirl around Joel, "The Radio Finder".

http://web.archive.org/web/20010923234313/www.radiofinder.com/

He's on my "Where Are They Now" list....


Radio restoration, if done properly is HARD work, and the ROI (Return On Investment) is quite paltry, ask me how I know.

I've done more than my share of restoration work, 2 AWA Blue Ribbons, and a Matlack award, write-ups in ER and QST and I'm taking a break. No way I could do it commercially, just too low a return on my time, its purely a labor of love.

W1FPZ TX - http://www.w1ujr.net/w1fpz_photo_essay.htm

Gross CB-25 - http://www.w1ujr.net/restore_gross_cb-25.htm

Collins 30K-1 - http://www.w1ujr.net/30k-1_restoration_photos.htm

Utah Jr. - http://www.w1ujr.net/utah_jr_photo_essay.htm (QST)

Lafayette PB-46 - http://www.w1ujr.net/lafayette_pb46a.htm (QST)

Multiples - http://www.w1ujr.net/restorations_past.htm

So if someone is doing it right, more power to them, thanks for saving a bit of history and bringing some joy into another person's life. If someone is making money flipping radios, I'd  rather see them doing that then pulling them apart, or see the sets going to rust in unused and forgotten about in someone's cellar.

Why do we care so much what other people do, if no damage occurs to items of historical value or it does not harm us directly?

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Ha ... yeah really? Where is he.

For me, I always loved working on the boatanchors. It's what I liked to do in Ham radio, even more than operate. I just didn't have enough time. So when I reached the ripe age of 48, I decided it was time to stop mixing rock concerts (I was an audio engineer for 25 years) and do the thing I loved all the time. And make a living at it!!! Besides it was getting ridiculous being in my late forties, standing in the middle of an arena with 10 or 20 thousand screaming 10-15 year old kids, mixing My Chemical Romance. ARGH!!! I was experiencing my own ANGST ... at 45!!!

I just love the work.

Funny thing, now I have no time to operate. Ask any of the East Coast AM'ers when the last time they heard me on the air. I'm always at the shop. Oh no .... more angst!!!  ;D

OH ... and UJR. It was seeing some of your work online (and others) that inspired me to do this. Finding the balance in doing it commercially is the real trick. I can't take the restorations as far as you have. Not without pricing myself out the reach of most Hams & SWL's who can really get some use and pleasure from this stuff. So I have to select the right pieces, plan well and know when to say enough is enough. Thanks for publishing your work.

John

Nice stuff and nice work!

As much as it pisses me off to see audiophools drive up the prices of vintage triode tubes and broadcast quality audio transformers to the point that hams can't afford them for our rigs, I have to admit that a lot of this stuff would have gone to the land fill years ago if this new interest and demand hadn't appeared when it did.

Someone who owns something can ask whatever price they want for it.  If someone wants to spend that money, then it is NOT a ripoff, it's a business transaction that both parties agreed upon.  Plain and simple.  It's their business transaction.  It wouldn't even be "public" except that maybe it happened at a fester or on ebay.

Hey!  It's better than having the government regulate what we can charge right? :)

  All you Need to Know about Government Bureaucracy:


** Pythagorean theorem: .............................................24 words.

** Lord's prayer:..........................................................66 words.

** Archimedes' Principle: .............................................67 words.

** 10 Commandments: ...............................................179 words.

** Gettysburg address: ...............................................286 words.

** Declaration of Independence : .............................1,300 words.

** US Constitution with 27 Amendments : ................ 7,818 words.

** US Government regulations on sale of cabbage:  26,911 words.

Wrong Denny!

The right Denny was a blast, he had those same women after hours keeping his friends (me included  ;D) very happy.
His problem at Dentron and later Amp Supply was dipping it with his secretaries and his wives caught him and took him to the cleaners and killed the companies.
Talked to him a few months ago, he hasnt changed much, just slowed down. Taking money from audiophools is a lot more fun than arguing with hams :o 8)

Carl

Is there anything that is not more fun than arguing with hams?

You should know.  ;)

EITCH EYE!

The Morris Code. It's serious business.

If the guy was really good he would have snapped a picture with a smart phone, written the copy with one the apps and listed it with a buy it now price that would have it sold before he got it home!

Steve

So true, Mike!  

It reminds me of a time at Hosstraders back in the early 90's. A guy and his wife unloaded at least 50 of those heavy mechanical RTTY machines from a Ryder rental truck. Took them a couple of hours. They sat with those things in the dirt all day. I doubt they sold even one.  At the end of the fest they were fighting and arguing about something - easy to figure out what. They reloaded the truck with their gems and swerved home.

Another time there was a guy displaying NEW AC breaker panels with his wife. He was all excited about them and grabbing anyone who would listen. These panels go for maybe $100 bux new. For some reason he had a price of $1020 hanging off one. I looked it over and for the life of me could not understand why it cost so much. He stood like a zombie later on thru the fest as people steered clear of the table. Some just stifled their laughs.


sigh... My point is: Anyone can charge anything they want for their products and services. The marketplace will tell them if they are right or wrong. If wrong, they will quickly be out of biz. If average, they will break even of expenses. If efficient, they will make money...  If done honestly, it takes a lot of work and smarts to make money consistenly in any competitive marketplace. For the most part, the ham radio hobby is a cash-sink for the majority of us. (At least it is for me)  .. ;)

T

Hi:

I buy something, clean it up, get it working well and use it. If I no longer want it, I sell it for the same amount. Sometimes I take a loss. I sleep well at night.

As far as refurbing and re-selling for a higher price, there is value added. So if one puts big money into the test bench, how many radios does it take to buy, refurb and sell to just break even on the venture. How much time is spent?

I take joy in getting these old rigs working. I know I could not make a living at it, nor would I want to. It would then be called work. ;-)

One time I sold a box of tubes at a flea for $20.00. The guy who bought it put the same box of tubes on his table and was asking double. I told him to wait till the next flea before rubbing my nose in it.

I MUCH prefer to give good deals to those that use the radio instead of flipping.

Dan

I wonder if that was an inadvertent misprint.  Maybe he is dyslexic and really intended it to be $12.00

Or he could have been serious.  Reminds me of the time I dug out a half dozen unboxed and unwrapped tubes from a half-full cardboard box of random receiving type tubes under a vendor's table.  Most of the other tubes were dirty and obviously used, but these were clean and new looking, marked 2A3H. These appeared to be special 2A3s with an indirectly heated cathode instead of the usual directly heated filament, but otherwise identical to regular 2A3s, with the same glass envelope, plate structure and 4-prong socket.  I asked the guy what he wanted for them, and he replied "one and a half" apiece.  So I pulled out a $ten and handed it to him, expecting $1 back as change.  He gave me a strange look and then informed me he was asking $150.00 each for them.  Naturally, I carefully placed them back in the box, leaving them for the first audiophool who might come along and be willing to throw away that kind of money.

It tends to piss me off to see some of this stuff marked way up with no obvious value added, but it can work the other way, too. Back in 1970, I was looking for a second 5/25 henry 1A swinging  choke to match the UTC commercial grade one I had in my transmitter.  At that time new ones were still listed in the catalogues for about $109 (1970 dollars) plus shipping/handling.  At a hamfest that summer I noticed a vendor with what looked like a UTC choke sitting under his table, in about a 1" deep mud puddle no less.  Upon closer examination, I discovered that it was identical to the one I had in my rig, precisely the second choke that I was  looking for.  It was brand-new looking, spotlessly clean except for the mud from under the guy's table.  It even had the new-in-the-box transformer smell of fresh paint and varnish.  Obviously, the guy had it still sealed in the factory box until he removed it that morning to display at the flea market.  I figured if he would just set it on the ground in the middle of a puddle of water  he didn't have a clue what he had.  So I put on kind of a dumb-ass act, and asked him how much he wanted for "that ol' transformer lookin' thing under the table". He replied "$1" and seemed anxious that I might change my mind and leave without taking it, as I was digging through my pockets trying to find a $1 bill.

;D ;D ;D  Classic!  How we all love those kinds of deals.  Probability says we will run across these things sometimes.


My "gift" was finding a box of brand new, modern, tennis ball size, ceramic, high quality silver plated RF capacitors at Nearfest about five years ago. (1000pf at 15KV) These are the type used in high-end RF transmitters  and go for several hundred $ bux each, new.  They sat on a table that was very neat and orderly, so I figgered he wanted big bux.  On a whim I offered him $5 for the box thinking he would laugh and then counter me. He took it immediately. The guys I was walking with almost blew a gasket as we walked away.  I use them today in two of the big rigs as plate coupling caps and gave two away for big linear projects..  ;)

T

OK..

My best to date was the Inovonics 222 limiter I bought for $5.00 at NearFest a year ago.

I still smile when I think of that purchase.... :-)

Dan

Yep, how often do you hear the same people who complain about prices also complain that someone is charging too little? They're the first to brag to anyone who will listen at the hamfest when they get a deal, and the first to bitch about someone selling something for $XYZ on ebay.

Like the recent thread where some are gleeful at the thought of ebay getting those greedy sellers under control for what they ask for shipping (no one is making anyone buy, mind you), the same thing has gone on forever at hamfests. Those who truly are charging too much, defined by what the current market (attendees) will bear, end up loading it all back up. I categorize these folks as very 'proud' of their items, that they're willing to go through so much to transport or list them, only to end up keeping them at the end of the day. Those who came with the intention of moving stuff generally do. In the end, it takes care of itself, no price police required.

And I, like others, have gotten my share of good deals over the years.  8) So no complaints here. Even if someone pays more for something I'd like to have, there's comfort in knowing that I could've bought it if I chose to. It just didn't hold that level of value for me, or mean as much. Others apparently get far more involved or attached through envy, jealousy, or whatever other emotion controls them over the item. Life's too short for that.

Jeez, and Todd, Johnny, etc bitch about me coming home with cheap deals. ;D

Many times I'll own 3-5 of the same model until I get a keeper or swap a few better looking parts around. Then that gets fully restored and used. The others get a full recap, resistors, and whatever else is needed to put it in original or petter playing condition.  A few hours is spent on cosmetics and maybe even a complete paint strip and a spray booth paint job with new paint in the panel engravings. Then off to Fleabay for usually pretty good bucks.

I stay away from Hallis, Johnson or others with bad panels as Ive no intention of paying some ham bandit $200+ for a silk screen repaint even after saying I will provide a ready to screen panel. I can paint better than some of what Ive seen them do and have car trophies to prove it.

Carl

I met the Ohmite Girl at a power supply convention earlier this month. She had on a lab coat, not exactly scanty.

They were talking about Denny's girls.

Hey John, on your website you show a DX100.  Whats that mystery knob just above the CW-Phone mode switch for ?  Added feature ?
 ???

It's tough to top the Radio Tart. She's always there for ya.

I think we need to start a pool on what gear Carl will haul home and for how much. The pack that's there early roaming around can note the gear, price, and even add time of sale to keep it interesting. Then when Carl arrives later, someone can shadow him. It would have to be someone in pretty good shape as he's pretty quick for an old codger. I bet 'JJ could follow 5 steps behind and he'd never know it.  ;)

Set me up with a Sat nite date with the Radio Tart and you've got a deal!   ;)

T

Better read again Steve, I was replying to Dons "steal".

Im actually gonna be real frugal this time Todd, just looking for a few components but if another $50 SX-28 comes along I just may bite 8)

Hey, you're the guy that brought up Denny's girls!   ;D

Never seen the Tart but I did see the red tail yesterday on a lamp post along Rt. 20.

That was mod done by a former owner. Took me while to figure that one out. It was a "marker" button for zero beating.

That was a nice DX-100. My problem with this business is my hording instinct is very difficult to overcome sometimes. I get done with an item and I want to keep it for myself, but alas, the bills keep coming!

I want to comment on tubes and pricing. The audiophools have really exaggerated the market, it's true. But consider the perception. You have a radio you bought eon's ago and you paid $100 bucks for. You want to replace the 12AX7 in the audio chain and if you don't have one your stuck paying a fortune. You will see the tube being sold for 25% of what the radio is worth to you. Now look at the audiophool. These guys spend astronomical bucks for their gear. A pre-amp easily and commonly costs $25,000+ these days. The Phool wants to try vintage tubes, cause he heard they increase his "spacial soundstage" by some infinitesimal amount, but he is compelled. The tubes cost him much less than 1% of the cost of the item he's putting a pair into. It's a matter of relative perception. To this guy, tubes are dirt cheap even at $250 a pair for 12AX7's.

Mind you, there are two types of audioophools, status buyers (the "I own a half a million dollar system, aren't I cool" type) and the "critical listener" who think they are pursuing ultimate musical fidelity. The manufacturers overprice their products to suit both types. Basically they price gouge more than any other industry I have ever seen. It's almost amoral. Case in point:

I was involved in this industry for a while (a between jobs job), and got a dose of the hype and hyperbole I was asked to belch out daily. So I understand the trap all of these critical listener types have fallen into. They are buying snake oil. An acquaintance of mine is one of these unfortunate victims. He has a system (that sounds just wonderful BTW), but his cabling cost him about 10 times what BOTH of my ham stations cost me in total. I'm talking about $40,000 in wire. This guys has drank the Kool-aid so to speak. He has a pair of speaker cables a 10' pair he paid over $6,000 for. When I went to his house to install a new cartridge onto his Oracle Delphi turntable, I checked out these cables. Basically, they were nothing more than a 8 conductor 20AWG control cable. The 8 conductors were split into a + & - (4x4), soldered into spade lugs. The entire package was then "dressed" in a foam tube, cloth outer sleeve and covered with a fine fiberglass mesh, custom heat shrink and fancy connector covers. I pulled back the sleeve to read the code on the rubber jacket of the original cable to discover it was Belden 83612 Multi-Conductor - Audio, Control and Instrumentation Cable. At retail (Allied Elec) this cable costs about $10/ft. I also priced out the retail cost of all the "dressing materials" used which totaled another $30. So to make these cables at retail pricing would cost about $250/pair. So figure if the items were bought at wholesale it would cost about $120+ labor to manufacture. Figure you sell them to your dealers for about $3500, and you see what I mean about gouging. Of course they are marketed as "OFC" and other ethereal terms spewing its musicality.

So, I bought some  rubber SOW 4 conductor 10 gauge, and made a ten foot pair and dressed them up just like the pair he has. I used a midnight blue mesh over a blood red cloth covering (it looked "mean"), put on bigger beefier spades. I knew the higher gauge would offer better damping factor at those lengths so I knew the cables would have slightly tighter bass response. This way my audiophool acquaintance would hear a change. I told him I was about to market my own brand of cables I have been testing " ... at my lab and have been working on these for 4 years" blah blah blah. I told him I needed a beta tester I could trust to evaluate them. The cables cost me about $100 in total.

So I went over and after bringing a laptop that had a copy of Smart FFT Room Analysis software, used in the Pro Audio world. I looked cool and complicated and I knew he has never seen it or heard of it or even knew what is does. I connected the two ends of each cable to some adapters and connected it to my audio interface and got an FFT display running off the noise. I told him some line about testing for the "magnetic flux variables" and twisted the cables about and looked at the display and looked at it critically, frowning and going, "hmm," while rubbing my chin. I then twisted the cables again and said, "AH HA .. perfect". I hooked the cables up to his system and listened a bit. I then told him told him the cables are already "burned in at the factory, so you won't hear a change over time". I left these faux HI-End cables with him for a week and called him to ask how they sounded. He first asked me how much are they. I told him, "well ... we think they will sell for about $13,999 retail but I would sell them to him for dealer cost at $8,000". I went to his house and he had the CASH already there when I arrived. He was raving about how great they sounded and that they are a "breakthrough product".

I said, "Oh ... really?" and suddenly pulled a box cutter out my pocket and with much panicking on his part, violently cut the cables fancy coverings off and showed him the cheap SOW. I took him over to his stove and showed him it was same cable used on his stove, and that it was just wearing make-up and a pretty dress. He was completely confused. I told him what his other cables actually were and that he should not listen this crap from these unscrupulous manufacturers. Cable is cable, not magic. I told him I would fix up the cable so it looked good again, and I gave them to him as a gift. He uses them to this day. Fortunately he has not bought any Hi-End cables since. I felt like I deprogrammed a cult member or just gave an addict friend an intervention.

Now this not to say that all expensive audio isn't worth it. Turntables require very exacting mechanical requirements and are expensive to make properly (most aren't). Consider the microscopic movements of the needle and the wiggles in the record grove, some measured in thousands of mils. Also consider the effects of the Newtonian laws of physics in terms of vector forces within the grove/needle interface and any external forces that are both infinitesimally small in value (equal and opposite and all that.) To make a turntable that can alleviate these external forces from adding to or canceling the minuscule vector forces within the record grove and needle's point of contact, the mechanical requirements are exacting. The benefits, when the table is designed & manufactured correctly, are very measurable and audible to anyone. So to build an excellent turntable can be expensive, just from simple mechanics alone. In general though, in the audio world this situation is the exception. Spending $10k on a turntable that is a machinists wet dream I can see, but $25k on a CD Player? NOT! Most things are way overpriced and over hyped and legions flock to drink the Kool-aid from their particular chosen Jim Jones of audio.

So now when I see him we talk about music; not audiophoolery.

So, I sell expensive 12AX7's (Telefunken, Mullard) to audiophools and I also sell used 12ax7 tubes that measure as new very cheap for the normal minded.

John

You're not kidding, John.

Here's a single 12AX7 bidding at $355 on eBay -  with 8 bids:


http://cgi.ebay.com/TELEFUNKEN-ECC803S-12AX7-Vaccum-tube-ONE-TUBE-/120707702874?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c1abd605a

T

$355.00 and reserve NOT met............. Insane!