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Author Topic: Straight from the Ham Fest to ePay  (Read 27502 times)
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N0WEK
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« on: March 26, 2011, 11:07:29 PM »

I went to the Midwinter Madness fest this morning in Buffalo, MN. I saw a really nice Drake 2B and it's Q-Multiplier/Speaker...$265 for the pair. I wasn't really there to buy anything big but I thought about it. When I came back around it was already sold along with a really nice HQ-170. After I get home and take a look at ePay, all three units are already listed about 2 hours after the fest was over by the local ePay shark!

I did get an OK deal on a HQ-145 that I'm listening to now on just 10 feet of hook-up wire for an antenna; it does need the switches and pots cleaned but it seem pretty good even as is.

I got a few parts and a pair for 8643s for the Viking I.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 02:08:55 AM »

I have seen that happen without even leaving the hamfest.  You see an item at one table, then pass by an hour or so later and it's gone, only to be found at another table with a substantially higher price tag.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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Steve - K4HX
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 03:44:40 AM »

Good. He made some money. They're just radios, not the crown jewels or the holy grail.
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Jim KF2SY
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 07:50:13 AM »

Good. He made some money. They're just radios, not the crown jewels or the holy grail.

Agree, forget the radios.  Go for the Crown Jewels:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-CROWN-JEWELS-Chunky-Charm-Bracelet-Necklace-/180645131022?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0f49f30e

Better yet, here's the Holy Grail:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARID-DJINN-BOUND-VESSEL-CHALICE-HOLY-GRAIL-AVALON-SET-/180644262556?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0f3cb29c

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WA3VJB
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 07:51:41 AM »

What's sad was the time I saw an under-priced audio amp on a table.  

Guy ahead of me paid the $10, pulled out the pair of 6CA7 and walked away.
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K5UJ
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 10:21:16 AM »

Good. He made some money. They're just radios, not the crown jewels or the holy grail.

The 2B isn't a big deal, but what if it is something rare or fragile, the buyer/seller doesn't know how to pack it well and it gets smashed in shipment after the eBay auction.   At least when something is sold to a ham at a fest, it is probably going to him in the trunk of his car and he knows how to use it.
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Steve - K4HX
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 01:45:17 PM »

What if the guy that buys it at the hamfest doesn't know anything and goes home and fires it up with shorted caps and fries the power transformer? It's their radio. They can do with it what they wish. Would you want someone telling you what to do with your radios?
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K1DEU
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2011, 02:10:42 PM »

Suggesting  but   not  telling.

When I was helped for free by many Old Timers how to enter the Non-Profit Hobby called Ham Radio. The majority would suggest to me and my beginner piers That if we purchased something we should never pass it along for financial gain. I didn't mind the thought for it could never be enforced by anyone. I don't mind if someone tells me what to do with the things I own for I'm going to make my own decision anywho ! I find others opinions the fun part of Ham Radio weither I agree or disagree with them.
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N0WEK
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2011, 02:15:32 PM »

Don't get me wrong, I don't think what he's doing is wrong, just kind of unfortunate!

He'd be perfectly legal to buy it and take it out to the parking lot and crush it with a hammer too.

I've got the auctions bookmarked and it'll be interesting to see what they go for; heck if they don't go for more than about the price he paid I may buy them, I can just go over and pick them up, no shipping or damage. I've bought from him before. Local is an advantage since you're ahead of non locals by whatever the shipping is.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2011, 02:18:15 PM »

The 2B isn't a big deal, but what if it is something rare or fragile, the buyer/seller doesn't know how to pack it well and it gets smashed in shipment after the eBay auction.

Or more likely, couldn't care less now that got his money.  He might have even cleared minimum wage (!) after he calculates time spent at the fest, and then time spent packing the stuff and hauling it to Fedups,  minus the cost of packing material, containers and ePay fees, versus whatever mark-up he was able to achieve on the sale.

And then you have that bottom-feeder from England (now living in KY) who is notorious for listing "mint condition" stuff, getting top dollar on ePay, then shipping out worthless junk (when he is not parting out good equipment because he thinks the sum of the parts might bring in more than the whole).

As cheap as most hams are, I couldn't think of a more miserable way to make money, selling used equipment at hamfests or over ePay. This is different from the traders who show up at hamfests because they like to buy, sell and swap gear, and actually use some of the stuff they bring home, and maybe skim off the best of what passes through their hands to keep for themselves.  I could enjoy doing that, except I don't want to be confined to a flea market spot all day and miss out on the solid gold modulation transformer made in 1929 that may be lurking under someone else's table.  That's why I don't bring my own stuff to pawn off; my gawd I have plenty of it I would like to get rid of.

If I were just in it for the money, I think I'd apply instead for a job as greeter at Wal 'o ChinaMart. At least, more of the people I would meet would be attractive and practise personal hygiene.

BTW Rob, I couldn't resist posting a response on Tower Talk regarding brazing the radials. I'm still working on the one for this BB.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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Steve - K4HX
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2011, 02:20:25 PM »

I cannot find the terms non-profit or hobby in Part 97. Your OT buds were misinformed.

You're right Rob. Some of these flippers are in their own self-made hell.
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K1DEU
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 02:35:13 PM »

Pecuniary Gain ?   Grin  Grin  Grin
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Steve - K4HX
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2011, 03:30:12 PM »

It's pecuniary interest. The actual text is:

Quote
97.113   Prohibited transmissions.

(a) No amateur station shall transmit:

(1) Communications specifically prohibited elsewhere in this part;

(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;

(3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer, with the following exceptions:

(i) A station licensee or control station operator may participate on behalf of an employer in an emergency preparedness or disaster readiness test or drill, limited to the duration and scope of such test or drill, and operational testing immediately prior to such test or drill. Tests or drills that are not government-sponsored are
limited to a total time of one hour per week; except that no more than twice in any calendar year, they may be conducted for a period not to exceed 72 hours.

(ii) An amateur operator may notify other amateur operators of the availability for sale or trade of apparatus normally used in an amateur station, provided that such activity is not conducted on a regular basis.

I don't see any text that does not allow an amateur radio licensee to sell radios or anything else at a profit or otherwise. They just can't do it regularly on the air. That section, (ii) makes me wonder about the legality of on-air swap nets.

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K5UJ
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2011, 03:54:52 PM »

I cannot find the terms non-profit or hobby in Part 97. Your OT buds were misinformed.

You're right Rob. Some of these flippers are in their own self-made hell.

Well of course a buyer can do anything he wants with his purchase; he can buy a SX88, get drunk, and carry it into the street and smash it if he wants and no law is violated, except maybe public drunkenness.   I was just offering my opinion that some of it is sad to me.  

Hey don, I saw ur brazing post--FB  Cheesy
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KA0HCP
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« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2011, 05:32:45 PM »

The flip side:  The fellow at the other end of the country who is ecstatic to buy that radio tonight.  He's been looking for that model for years, and without Ebay he never would have found it. 

Everbody ends up happy:

The final owner
The Ebay middleman
The hamfest seller
The hamfest sellers' wife!
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KM1H
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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 06:24:32 PM »

Capitalism at work

Yet I never hear the whiners complain when their stock portfolio takes a big jump up and they skim the Big $$ off the top.

Id say the "Ebay Shark" is simply doing the same as a car salesman taking in your trade in at well below book and reselling it at a tidy profit.
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K1JJ
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« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2011, 06:47:00 PM »

The best way to get ham gear is through a friend who treats you right. But that is not alway possible.

That said,  I agree that MOST flippers provide a needed service, especially when they buy locally and resell the item nationally.

Just like ANY marketplace in the whirl, the more participants, the better the liquidity. The better the liquidity, the easier to buy and sell at a "fair" price. Illiquid markets are for suckers looking to get reamed.  

Speculators are a key ingredient to liquidity. In stocks and commodity markets they take the form of day traders, hedgers and scalpers. In the ham marketplace, they are the flippers.  

Speculators (and flippers) would be out of business quickly if their prices or services were way out of line. They come and go, depending upon how efficient they are.  

Whenever I need something for a project (and usually yesterday) I don't really care who I buy it from - as long as I can find it at a reasonable price and get it here quickly.

In a thousand years, it won't really matter who made a profit on anything. All that will matter is if I found the parts to finish my project or not... Grin

T

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Patrick J. / KD5OEI
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« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2011, 07:44:50 PM »

I am not offended by ebay flippers. Annoyed only in case I really wanted the item and didn't find it for less, first. I know a couple of them folks. They make a living off finding 'stuff' and reselling it.

One amazing sale was an old Altec theater speaker, huge item. He paid $5000 for it because the owner was certainly no fool and wanted a decent price, and had it sold the next week for $11K. Both were happy.

One guy wanted to know the identity of a person for whom I put up a website of electronics junk. The junk-owner was sort of a recluse and did not want to be bothered for 90 days (till fall) but agreed to meet the potential buyer then.
During that 90 days, the prospective peruser of junque gave me many items of good value which I really tried to refuse, and none of that was necessary. I have no issue with that, but I did keep telling him that it was not necessary to give me anything, did he want to trade, etc? - but all he really wanted was for me to introduce him to the guy with the hoard, which I had planned on doing, certainly for free.
I had a BA-6A I did not want to get rid of and he just kept asking for it until after a few months when he was visiting I stated an obscene price and he got out the benjamins without a raised eyebrow, because it was something he himself wanted.
That really showed me something about ebay flippers. Those guys roll with the big hoards and the big $ and it is as well to be on kind terms with them as one would be with anyone else.

k4kyv - When an item switches tables and the price goes up, it can backfire on the would-be profiteer if they are greedy. Seen it happen at 5AM on a $1200 item after his $2400 price was mocked at 9AM. He wanted his cash back from me but I said no. The catalog price was $20K and it was only 5 years old, fair sale and I did not want to take it home. The guy made himself a bad deal because of greed. I bet a lot of them do that.

WA3VJB - did you then get the amplifier for the iron? The tube-puller may have cheated hmself if the tubes were soft. Someone got that audio amp iron!!

K1DEU - I'm not sure I agree completely about not making any profit off equipment sales but I seldom make anything off a sold item. Usually items are sold for less than what's in them because I want them gone quickly or have already used them for 2 decades and don't feel like I need to extract much value. I just pass them along remembering how at one time I was broke and needed equipment. The few times I have had to demand a 'fair price' (ham translation: 'exhorbitant price') was when it was an estate. If you figure out a way to get rich off ham radio without accumulating a multitude of sins let me know!

N0WEK - A guy got disgusted and hefted three 18" cube boxes of smallish transformers into the hamfest dumpster because no one would pay $10 per box. Being 20 years old and not bothered by the acrobatics of getting in and out, I dug them out once he was gone. Probably used 20-30 of them, gave as many away..
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k4kyv
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« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2011, 09:00:31 PM »

A guy got disgusted and hefted three 18" cube boxes of smallish transformers into the hamfest dumpster because no one would pay $10 per box. Being 20 years old and not bothered by the acrobatics of getting in and out, I dug them out once he was gone. Probably used 20-30 of them, gave as many away..

Why did you wait for the guy to leave before you dumpster-dove?  He didn't own the hamfest dumpster and once property is abandoned in a public place, it's fair game for the taker.  I would have dug them out while he was still there, and looked at him and smiled as I  hauled the stuff away.

I have pulled many an item out of hamfest dumpsters at the end of the day.  It's amazing the stuff people will throw away because they don't want to haul it back home.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2011, 10:41:23 PM »

It's all a matter of how you look at it Grin Grin


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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2011, 11:17:16 PM »

I'm just glad that HRO, AES, and those other amateur retailers out there aren't selling their equipment for a profit. What would we do then? *wrings hands nervously*  Roll Eyes

Hamfest Rule #1: If you see something and think you want it, BUY it. Otherwise you might not get the chance later in the day. Especially if Carl & Johnny are there too. The ebay flippers are the least of your worries, there are guys out there willing to buy it to use and enjoy, maybe sell later. Ebayers will only buy it if it's cheap enough to make enough profit on. And as has been pointed out in previous threads, when you figure your time, transportation, whatever else into the equation, the profit margin tends to evaporate rapidly.

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K5UJ
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« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2011, 09:24:03 AM »


Hamfest Rule #1: If you see something and think you want it, BUY it. Otherwise you might not get the chance later in the day.


Good advice.  How many times have we seen something and been on the fence (especially early in the fest) moved on, then 3 minutes later decided to grab it only to find it gone?
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K1DEU
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« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2011, 10:26:45 AM »

     I enjoy my profit businesses but do not call them hobbies. Good profit to cover much prototyping and using components of 20 to 50 % higher cost.  Tearing apart other manufactures similar items.  R&D.  Production.    Sales including compensation for schill's, beautiful women, etc.

I category my non-profit businesses as hobbies where I greatly loose any profit margin,  time,  patience, efficiency, etc.  


   Beautiful Elegant Scantly clad Women always make the best Schill's. Ask Denny , Dentron or Herb Iby.
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Carl WA1KPD
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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2011, 12:04:08 PM »


Hey, the seller was happy enough with the price to let it go, so what do we care?

Hopefully everybody wins:

-The original seller got enough to make him happy.
-The flipper makes some money.
-The winning bidder got something he wants.
I have let stuff go for far less at Nearfest than I could have gotten on eBay simply because I did not want to hassle with the listing,shipping etc.

Carl
/KPD
 
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2011, 12:23:41 PM »

Most of the girls I see at Denny's are pretty well covered in clothes....


klc
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