QSO interrupted this evening

[WA3VJB]

When the move to SSB from AM was taking place, the ARRL was promoting it, of course. So that had to add plenty of fuel to the fire, and no doubt the driving off of AMers appeared 'sanctioned' to some.

I agree that the push toward SSB was so strong that people were left to conclude something must be "wrong" with AM, so we had to defend the mode on its own merits, and still do so, today.

CW ops, I've been told, faced the same problem as "Phone" was becoming popular, and they were left on the defensive.  More recently, it still raised hackles in the CW community when the FCC reapportioned the sub-bands to more closely reflect today's popularity of "phone" modes, including AM.

What's sad for the ARRL, if it had any leadership role among modes and activities, is that they first had to defend acceptance of "AM Phone" against CW loyalists, but then abandoned this acceptance when SSB came in. Thus, AM had no representation in Newington as time went on.

[Opcom]

When the guy came and got it he acted like I picked his pocket and didn't even thank me...
Turned out the guy was a slop bucket Collins flipper.

That's the kind of guy who doesn't leave a tip in a restaurant because he figures he's never going back there again.

It's not hard to imagine the overwhelming probability of what would have happened if the situation had been reversed and he had been the one who found the wallet.

That's the kind of mugwump that will buy something from you after negotiating your price down and then go put it on his table for 2x the price, and after enough people snicker at his price, he will return with it and demand you take the merchandise back and refund his money. Those kind got the diode on their wallet big time. Always get cash from that kind and never give it back.

[w1vtp]

I wasn't particularly overly exercised about the experience - just disappointed that the behavior of some stain the overall "brotherhood" experience.  It just reinforces the need for me to carve out some time and get some more fire in the wire.

Here's the plan for the W1VTP station:

• Raise the center of the dipole from the current 35+ feet to ~65 feet
• Replace the current trap dipole with some sort dipole that will work on 160, 75 and 40 meters
• Increase power (fire in wire effect)

Thing is I have been very pleased with the behavior on the frequency of the QRP net.  We seem to be given some space even though the opportunity is there for squatting on top of the net.

This was more or less a reality check for me that the human condition of inconsiderate behavior is still in  place - even in the amateur radio fraternity. There was a lot of editorializing in the early days of amateur radio about "rotten operating" - nothing's changed.

Thanks for your kind replies

Al

[k4kyv]

Here's the plan for the W1VTP station:

• Raise the center of the dipole from the current 35+ feet to ~65 feet
• Replace the current trap dipole with some sort dipole that will work on 160, 75 and 40 meters
• Increase power (fire in wire effect)

That worked for Bud in Lorain, WD8BIL.  He used to have a mediocre signal here, not bad but not strapping.  Then he hoisted his antenna up to something like 80ft.  Now he STRAPS into here.  The new broadcast quality T4X with the controlled carrier removed, working into a big leen-yar helps, too.  Hopefully the new antenna didn't suffer too much damage from the storm.

What's sad for the ARRL, if it had any leadership role among modes and activities, is that they first had to defend acceptance of "AM Phone" against CW loyalists, but then abandoned this acceptance when SSB came in. Thus, AM had no representation in Newington as time went on.

Actually, AM never had more than lukewarm acceptance by the League. Read through some of the old QSTs.  Before WW2 the magazine contained abundant examples of derisive remarks about phone operators, despite the fact that there were construction articles in both QST and the Handbook for phone rigs.
This continued after the War.  I remember a regular feature in the late 40s and early 50s called "75m Phone Band Funnies".  They never got serious about promoting phone on the HF bands until SSB came along.

[Steve - K4HX]

Excellent! Instead of P&Ming, you are doing something about it. That approach means something positive will come out of what was a negative incident. You get the last laugh. Bravo!

I wasn't particularly overly exercised about the experience - just disappointed that the behavior of some stain the overall "brotherhood" experience.  It just reinforces the need for me to carve out some time and get some more fire in the wire.

Here's the plan for the W1VTP station:

• Raise the center of the dipole from the current 35+ feet to ~65 feet
• Replace the current trap dipole with some sort dipole that will work on 160, 75 and 40 meters
• Increase power (fire in wire effect)

Thing is I have been very pleased with the behavior on the frequency of the QRP net.  We seem to be given some space even though the opportunity is there for squatting on top of the net.

This was more or less a reality check for me that the human condition of inconsiderate behavior is still in  place - even in the amateur radio fraternity. There was a lot of editorializing in the early days of amateur radio about "rotten operating" - nothing's changed.

Thanks for your kind replies

Al

[WD8BIL]

They never got serious about promoting phone on the HF bands until SSB came along.

Just look at their (ARRL) example on 40 meters. They list 7290 in the bandplan as an AM Calling frequency then turn around and sanction the 7290 SSB traffic net!

If that doesn't send mixed signals.........

[Steve - K4HX]

No pun intended.

If that doesn't send mixed signals.........

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Just look at their (ARRL) example on 40 meters. They list 7290 in the bandplan as an AM Calling frequency then turn around and sanction the 7290 SSB traffic net!

If that doesn't send mixed signals.........

No one owns a frequency. You also forgot W1AW phone bulletins on 7290 

[K5UJ]

Actually, AM never had more than lukewarm acceptance by the League. Read through some of the old QSTs.  ... They never got serious about promoting phone on the HF bands until SSB came along.

Right.  A few days ago I stumbled over an article in ER from about 10 years ago by Lew McCoy titled "ARRL Memories" or some such.  He reminisced about when he got hired at ARRL.   It was around 1950 and he wrote that the league HQ staff was almost entirely CW ops and he was thought of as "the phone guy."   He wrote that he had to deal with a lot of suspicion and cold shoulders.   The CW guys all hated phone.   He was in the communications dept. and reported to Handy W1BDI.  

I could go on for a few hundred words on the QRM psychology but suffice to say it is similar to that of Internet trolls.  Don's method is probably best together with ignoring them.  But one thing I think is important that has not been emphasized much is audio processing.   Don and other strappers have a "secret weapon,"  being loud with tight peak limiting and a lot of audio driving the limiter and plenty of audio headroom.   But the antenna is still king so Al getting the dipole up 65 feet is great.  I wish I could get mine up higher than its 45 - 50 feet.   Brandon KF5IIA got an additional 20 dB here when his went from around 30 feet to 70 feet.   Cheapest 20 dB you can get.

Rob

[W1RKW]

As Don has stated many a time, turn up the wick.

[K1JJ]

Don't feel bad or picked on if ya get QRMed.    The social mood peaked this decade reflected in all the "save the whirl" songs and has been moving down to the beat of "let's kick some ass" songs...  It will get worse so expect it. It's actually cool now to be a tough guy on the air, at least to some. The whirl has really changed and is in a social bear mkt down. We have discussed this here for about 8 years now. It's a BIG trend that effects everyone.

One thing that does work in QRM conflicts is to confront them with a big signal on ssb. If you get in their face using their own mode, they WILL listen to you. The same if they were to switch to a big carrier AM signal - we would listen too.

My attitude is, I don't go around looking to bother you - why are you coming at me?  A little dialog back and forth can sometimes produce a compromise where they move up and we move down a little. They will always have a bias about AM being wider, however.

After that, as said here in previous posts, put in the effort to have a big mawl. Al/VTP, you're doing the right thing and sometimes these events DO produce good results in the end, as the Huzman wisely said.

T  

[K8LEN]

To bad it happened, sure has changed since 1958. A lot believe they own the frequency and the band anymore since they give away the license from what it use to be.
I work cw and they dont listen, just tune and operate..you go away hi, same with digital you operaste rtty and some  %$#@ comes on top of you on psk, and hey I only run 15 to 20 watts. 

I am new back in the operation of AM , and have had a lot of fun so far on it, a lot of fine ops, and sitting here listening a lot of ignorants jumping on frequency with sweep oscillators or a homemade jammer, interesting, but I guess just plow on thru usually the trouble makers get tired of it.

See you guys on 75 AM with my 35 watts..look out for those who dont give a da...

POB/K8LEN

[WA3VJB]

Hi Pob, welcome !

Looking forward to working you some time.

It is on behalf of stations like yours, running a few dozen watts, that many of us debate, discuss and defend AM activity as being every bit as deserving of a spot on the dial as any other non-emergency, non essential communications among radio hobbyists.

Sure, it's easy to say turn up the wick, or improve the antenna, but the fact remains, 51 Watt Fred will still be out there with 51 Watts, struggling to be heard !  

He deserves that clear spot as much as anyone, and the lack of respect from operators using incompatible modes is a behavioral issue that has no easy answer.

[The Slab Bacon]

With all of this said, I confer fully with Don and others- - -"Strap and ignore"
Crank up a big signal and make no mention that you are doing it, just keep on talking like nothing is happening.

Lets face it If you are really serious about AM, especially on 75/80M you have got to have at least one big gun in your arsenal!! And I dont mean a 100w table top rig.

Just if nothing else, for the times you may need it   

[WD8BIL]

No one owns a frequency. You also forgot W1AW phone bulletins on 7290 

Then why have a bandplan?

[Pete, WA2CWA]

No one owns a frequency. You also forgot W1AW phone bulletins on 7290 

Then why have a bandplan?

A guide to where on the HF or VHF/UHF bands various modes and activities are generally found.

[WD8BIL]

A guide the writers themselves ignore!
Now it makes sense!

[Pete, WA2CWA]

A guide offers basic information or instruction; it's not something cast in concrete.

[K9PNP]

For those that operated mil nets, especially during the Cold War time frame, remember the rules for working through jamming [paraphrased]:

1. Continue to operate
2. Ignore the jammer
3. Boost power, antenna height, directional antenna
4. Move to alternate freq only if these do not work

If you were lucky enough to have an EW outfit you could call, add following:
3A.  Have EW find location of jammer
3B.  Take offensive action if possible [interpreted to be 'if it fits rules of engagement' at the time and location]

[KM1H]

Al, never bring a peashooter to a gunfight.

50W is for 10 and 6M; even a single 813 will be stomped on 75. Run a pair with some real plate modulation or real tubes for a linear. A pair of GG 4-400's will run the "legal" limit as a linear.

Do you have room for a directional receive antenna? One that you can steer the null?

Carl

[K5WLF]

Here is my solution to the lost wallet problem.  I bought this on line several years ago.  It holds all the essentials: driving permit, debit card, insurance cards, etc.  It fits in my front pocket and is very comfortable; I can't even tell it's there unless I feel for it.  Of course I can't cram it full of cash or carry a jillion credit cards, but I never did that any way. Notice how it is shaped to fit the front pocket.

Don,

I too, was tired of sitting on a big lump of wallet and having to put up with moving it to my front pocket when I was in a crowd. After you posted the pic of your front pocket wallet I went Googling and found it. My Rogue Wallet Weekender got here today and I like it already.

http://www.roguewallet.com/wk.html for folks who want one.

Thanks for that post, Don.

ldb
K5WLF

[kg8lb]

Hi Pob, welcome !

Looking forward to working you some time.

It is on behalf of stations like yours, running a few dozen watts, that many of us debate, discuss and defend AM activity as being every bit as deserving of a spot on the dial as any other non-emergency, non essential communications among radio hobbyists.

Sure, it's easy to say turn up the wick, or improve the antenna, but the fact remains, 51 Watt Fred will still be out there with 51 Watts, struggling to be heard !  

He deserves that clear spot as much as anyone, and the lack of respect from operators using incompatible modes is a behavioral issue that has no easy answer.

Exactly , Paul.

 Sadly the "Strap and ignore " mentality is commonly used by AMers against other AM QSOs.  The big rig boys all too often fire right on top of ongoing QSOs . There is no doubt they are aware of the fact they are interfering but because they hear each other they just take over (or try to) the frequency. No difference from what the SSB ops did in the case at hand.

[W2VW]

Is it the first wednesday already?

[K1DEU]

To maintain an AM QSO
      it has always worked better to use a multi mode transceiver and large linear amp to quickly comment that there is

an existing QSO on or near the frequency in a calm bored tone in the language the hecklers understand

  which is Silly Side Band, on their frequency as strong or stronger then they are.   

[w1vtp]

To maintain an AM QSO
      it has always worked better to use a multi mode transceiver and large linear amp to quickly comment that there is

an existing QSO on or near the frequency in a calm bored tone in the language the hecklers understand

  which is Silly Side Band, on their frequency as strong or stronger then they are.  

Hi John.  Very long time no hear.  Trust you are doing well.  Well, I mostly did that but the QSO had been terminated due to intereference before I contacted them on SSB.  True, I was only running 300 watts PEP SSB at the time I contacted them but the point was made.  Again, the response was "OK" and then the individual who responded continued with his conversation with the other person as though nothing had happened. What actually happened in this instance was suddenly this strong SSB signal broke up our QSO so there really should not have been any excuse for suddenly initiating a QSO on our frequency - they could hear that there was a QSO in progress.  I have the advantage of seeing the spectrum on either side of my usage frequency and there was plenty of opportunity for these people to take up their QSO elsewhere.  Heck, they could even have broken in and asked if they could have coordinated a frequency search and have moved on.  I could have managed that sort of dialogue but it did not happen.

I was not P&Ming -- just making a comment that, perhaps, we as gentlemen can appreciate that we should be aware of the frequency we are using and of any co-channel usage.  Conditions / skip change almost on a minute to minute basis and it is conceivable that we (as gentlemen) could be having a QSO only to discover that our QSO has "collided" with another on the same channel or close by.  Our response should always be polite and concerned that we maintain a common brotherhood additude to our fellow amateur radio operators.

I think this thread has served a good purpose of maintaining awareness of proper operating practice and a good attitude toward others that we meet on the air.  We all have hitched a ride on this Space Ship called Earth - we should be setting an example of how to get along with each other.

Best regards, John es 73, Al