The Best kept secret of the Roto-Rooter man

[K1JJ]

Hola,

This is an odd subject for the AM BB, but I think once you read it all, you will agree it’s some great info.

Both of our toilets had been flushing slowly for the last few years - almost identical performance. The septic field is OK and the main drain pipes work fine. I snaked the toilets and used chemicals. Still, the flush was very slow and anemic. It just went around and round and slowly emptied with some luck.

So, I finally decided be a sucker and call Roto-Rooter. I figured it must be something like the vent pipe was clogged or maybe the main drain pipe had tree roots growing into it - something big like that common to both toilets.

The guy came over and said he knows what causes 95% of the problems on OLDER toilets, but it would cost me $175 for each toilet to find out. (Ours are about 20 years old) I told him it was too much, but we worked out a better deal. I axed him how much time he wud spend on it - he just smiled and said they are not paid by the hour, but if it didn't make a BIG improvement, I didn't have to pay.

He seemed hesitant to let me watch him work – he said he knew customers and once I saw the solution, I wouldn’t call him back anymore…

So, bottom line - he spent about 10 minutes on each toilet and they are both working like new. And, he didn't use the snake to clear obstructions in the main bowl pipe.   The secret I will give you will be free and may make your toilets run like new too.

The problem is the water. Any water - city, well, filtered, contains deposits that slowly fill in passages in the toilet’s flushing system. They become partially clogged.  The deposits become as hard as stone just like in a limestone cave and the water will not flow well. A toilet that is 20 years old (like ours) is prone to this.  We have filtered well water here.

Do you know where the small hole is that shoots water out near the BOTTOM  of the bowl – shoots it into the main drain pipe?  It’s usually underwater and it cannot be determined if it’s working or not. This is in addition to the little water jets at the top which give the flush a whirlpool effect.  This large hole is what pushes the water down the main drain. Without it the water goes round and round.

Anyway, all he did was take a strong screwdriver and chip away at the hole for about 5 minutes. The water hole is normally about ¾” in diameter. It was so clogged with “stone” you could barely fit in a straw.  He worked very hard to break it loose and showed me large chips that looked like solid glass.

After he was finished chipping, the toilet came to life and could have sucked Yaz down the drain. It was like a new toilet. He did the same for the second toilet, took his money and split.

In hindsight, it would have been cheaper to buy two new toilets and install them myself. The water passages would be brand new and clean. He said an average toilet is good for about 20 years before the average water clogs it internally – just like cholesterol in our veins.

So that’s the story. I’ll bet if some of you with older toilets were to get out a strong screwdriver and chip out that water hole lying opposite the main bowl drain, you may be very surprised at the performance change.  Did I handle this subject tactfully enough, caw mawn?

T

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Maybe we should post this in the AMfone Online AM Handbook Section as Tips & Hints For The AM'ers Everyday Life 

[K7NCR]

A person should keep their old toilets if at all possible! This fix just might help do that. If you junk that old pooper, then the new one you buy now has, by design, a poor flushing system because they have to use a limited amount of water per flush! The toilet "nazis" have created this to "conserve water", and only caused more waste by consumers having to flush more than once to get the job done. It has even caused a black market in toilet imports that exceed the US standards.  

[WA1GFZ]

untrue I have a couple Kolar centurians that use just over a gallon and blow the doors off my 5 gallon one in Enfield.
I've heard that story before. Also look at the holes under the rim. They also clog.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

A good douche with CLR once in a while will keep the deposits from building up.

[W1RKW]

My parents had a strange problem with their 1st floor toilet which was similar to the build up problem JJ describes but rather than the toilet flushing and draining sluggishly it would drain when it wasn't in use. Over a period of a few hours or so after the bowl was refilled it would empty very slowly by itself. Empty enough to let sewer gases vent into the house. There were no cracks in the bowl and no leakage into the basement. The system vent was clear so no vacuum and the other toilets didn't exhibit this.  Yanking the toilet revealed a string of slim hanging down into the drain that acted as a water wick. The toilet had never been removed in the 40 years that they were in the house but the other 2 toilets were replaced about 10 years ago during a remodel so they wouldn't have shown this.  Cleaning the outlet, trap and drain fixed the problem.  Bizarre to say the least.

[K1JJ]

A good douche with CLR once in a while will keep the deposits from building up.

That may be a good idea. Add some CLR to the water tank from time to time.

Here's the info from a CLR ad. Notice they mention "hard water deposits."    I shud have saved some of the glass the guy broke out to see what it was made of. Probably all kinds of minerals from well water. He said a granular filter (like we use) will not help.


"CLR and Tarn-X Cleaners
CLR and Tarn-X have been industry leaders in cleaning for nearly 20 years, offering a wide selection of products to meet your cleaning needs.  Millions of customers trust the original CLR formula to blast through stubborn calcium, lime, and rust – now you can put the whole family of CLR and Tarn-X products to work in your home, garage, or shop.   

Patented CLR safely tackles the toughest calcium, lime, rust, and hard water deposits
Tarn-X products remove tarnish and restore brilliant shine to silver, gold, copper, and more "


Frank, yes the rim holes can be cleaned out with a piece of steel wire. However, if you're getting a good whirlpool effect already, but slow flush, it's probably the large opening below.

T

[K1JJ]

Yanking the toilet revealed a string of slim hanging down into the drain that acted as a water wick. The toilet had never been removed in the 40 years...

That's quite a message before supper...

Actually, a good lesson learned -  sometimes there is a reason to replace a toilet OR at least pull it off and check it out.  The snake can't do everything.

T

[N3DRB The Derb]

I want the TAPS guys offa SYFY to come down and find all the spirits and ghosts in my toilet. lemme tell you, bub, there's some evil things in there. 

[W7TFO]

Our well water is so hard out here you can pound nails with it.     The crapper has a mineral buildup everywhere the water sits, so I pour in a cup of pool acid every 6 months and let it sit overnight.  All the hard stuff just flushes away the next morning. 

I tried CLR, Tarnex, and Lime-Away.  Our liquid stone just laughed at those.  The rim holes have not been a problem with our model.

We run all our drinking H2O thru a RO filter system.  It seems to not be affected by the dissolves minerals as it last quite a while.

[k4kyv]

Hydrochloric (muriatic) acid works, too.  They recommend using it to clean mortar stains on brick masonry and ceramic tiles.  When I have a slow drain, I pour about a cup of acid into the drain, let it work for a while,  and then flush it out.

Just don't let the fumes get near any stainless steel fixtures.

[WA1GFZ]

I wouldn't add any of that stuff to the tank because it might damage the rubber flapper valve. I would drain the tank and open the flapper. Then pour it down the hole. CLR works great in our SS dishwasher. Then let it sit for a good long while. Say before you go to bed at night. We do CLR about every 3 months to keep the dish washer looking nice.
since it is all about velocity the Kolar has a large flapper valve to really get all the water moving fast. In 5 years it has never needed a second flush and just under $300 at home cheapo.

[k4kyv]

On some toilets, you can adjust the flapper valve by moving the float up or down on a little chain.  The tanks on most water closets hold several gallons of water, but are designed to only partially drain with each flush.  On mine, I moved the float all the way down to the very bottom of the chain, and now the tank fully empties every time I flush it.

Often the flapper valve won't fully open unless you hold the flusher down about a second before releasing it.  That gets the water going full blast and then the float remains on the surface and holds the flapper open so it won't be sucked down by the stream and close prematurely.

[W4EWH]

Hydrochloric (muriatic) acid works, too.  [snip]

Just don't let the fumes get near any stainless steel fixtures.

(*&(*& the fixtures! If the fumes can damage stainless steel, I'm only interested in how to keep them away from my lungs!

Bill, W1AC

[Opcom]

I got one of those toilets that is supposed to flush a bucket of golf balls. It has been put to some severe tests and has never failed.

[wb2fof]

Simple here..................we just dig a new hole, slide the antique outhouse over it and cover the old with the dirt . The tomatoes and corn average 6' in height, 3 weeks later ! 

[K5UJ]

My toilet is a Mansfield.  It doesn't have any little water refill hole   

Maybe using a water softener helps.

[ka3zlr]

Simple here..................we just dig a new hole, slide the antique outhouse over it and cover the old with the dirt . The tomatoes and corn average 6' in height, 3 weeks later ! 

I have/had a neighbor who used to make a slurry with Pig,Chicken,Cow,Human Poop and he lived to be 83,.. whatever he could throw in that pile of his it got mixed in an in the bucket it went with well water...an stirred briskly.....an his Tomatoes were great friers when green an the reds were as big as your fist...

[KM1H]

I wouldnt use any acid or other harsh chemicals if on a septic system.

Carl
KM1H

[WZ1M]

Carl, that was my thought but you beat me to it. Got to keep them bugs just a chewing in the septic tank. I even have a seperate system for gray water.
Regards,
Gary

[K1JJ]

I wouldnt use any acid or other harsh chemicals if on a septic system.

Carl
KM1H

Good to know, Carl.   I've since added bio "good bacteria"  additives to the septic system.   Those harsh "draino-type" chemicals never seemed to work anyway. If a snake doesn't do it, then time to pull the toilet off or look elsewhere.

BTW, as of today, the toilets are still flushing agressively. That chipped water hole fix definately did the trick. I feel so much better now...

T

[ka3zlr]

We Have 2 systems as well on my place Once a year I have the pipes cleaned and Once a month a cake of yeast in the hole an everybody is happy, also No paper products in either one.

[W3SLK]

A little bit of acid in a roughly ~1500 gallon septic tank isn't going to affect the pH that much since the bacteria in it tend to keep it low by virtue of fermentation action. However, those bugs do not like stuff high in pH. Chlorinated solutions get the bugs drunk and puts them to sleep. Grease has the same overall effect. Just remember a little lye can go a long way.

[WZ1M]

Most of the tanks around here are only 1000 gallon and some not even that big. As for the lye, been telling my wife that for years and she still doesnt know about the girl friend, hehehehehe.
Gary

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Do the troopers go to the under ground barracks more quickly now?

I wouldnt use any acid or other harsh chemicals if on a septic system.

Carl
KM1H

Good to know, Carl.   I've since added bio "good bacteria"  additives to the septic system.   Those harsh "draino-type" chemicals never seemed to work anyway. If a snake doesn't do it, then time to pull the toilet off or look elsewhere.

BTW, as of today, the toilets are still flushing agressively. That chipped water hole fix definately did the trick. I feel so much better now...

T