What is a "certificate of registration"?

[k4kyv]

The photos of the old buzzard transmitter on ePay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160278501349&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

show an interesting FCC  "Certificate of Registration - Amateur Transmitter" affixed to the front panel.  Does anyone know what that is?

A very interesting piece of gear.  I hope someone who has an appreciation for this type of gear (looks like 1936-era construction, homebrew?) gets it, instead of some bottom-feeder to part it out and try to peddle the parts.  Isn't that QTH in MD close to IBX Joe?

That "certificate" is undoubtedly an interesting part of the transmitter's history.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Just a shot in the dark Don, but I wonder if that's along the same lines as those cards that were once included with new gear? A very basic ID card with a place for your name, call, and transmitter location if memory serves me. Think I still have one from the 70s somewhere.

A good coat of black wrinkle and that would be an attractive as well as interesting set to have in the radio room. Even have NOS tube spares for it.

[Jim, W5JO]

Didn't the FCC issue Registration Certificates for transmitters during World War II?

Seems as if you could get a certificate to build if you participated in some sort of defense watch or some such.  My memory is real fuzzy on this.

[WB3LEQ]

Didn't the FCC issue Registration Certificates for transmitters during World War II?

Seems as if you could get a certificate to build if you participated in some sort of defense watch or some such.  My memory is real fuzzy on this.

I thought all radio transmitters were required to be registered during WWII because transmitting was prohibited until the end of the war.  This was supposed to help in tracking down spies.  So if your location was tracked down and your transmitter wasn't registered you were suspected to be a spy.  Last time I heard stories about this was about 25 years ago so I too may be a tad bit off.

[W3RSW]

Don, That tape holding the card looks awfully new. 
Nothing like 60 yr. old Scotch or equiv. tape would look even though it seems to have a torn edge.
I'll go to ebay and see if there's a larger shot.
*****
Hmmm, pix's not too bad.
Link coupling, very buzzerdly stuff.
Ebay Post says the card reads 12/9/44 so definitely W3BY got it registered during WWII even if he couldn't place in on the air in normal amateur use.

The card sure looks authentic and the finals are way cool.

Anyone live nearby on the Eastern shore who'd like to look at it?

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Maybe you can find some info here. Members talked about it back some time ago:
http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=10944.0

[N3DRB The Derb]

Salsbury MD is on the eastern shore of MD over the Bay Bridge. I would say 190 miles from me. If I could buy it at that price and had the spare change I'd go get it and store it at least just to save it intact and keep it from being parted out. Nothing I hate more than good historical homebrew being ripped apart for some maggot.

what are those tubes? oh never mind, 860's.....look like big 852's.  buzzardly as all hell. gives me wood.  

I got the truck and the time, and safe storage...I dont have the money and I cant lift it.

[Tom WA3KLR]

We covered this subject 1 1/2 years ago.   A readable photo of a certificate included.

Read my posts in the following topic:

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=10944.0

[k4kyv]

I remember that now.  I looked it up and found Order 101 in the July, 1942 issue of QST.  The FCC wanted a detailed description of the transmitter, including tube  line-up and circuit description.  Licensed amateurs without any transmitter were  supposed to notify the FCC as well.

But since the FCC waited several months after Pearl Harbor, and amateur radio transmissions were already forbidden, many hams who owned those transmitters would have already been in the military and serving overseas by the time the order was issued, and most likely would not have even been aware of it.  The editors of QST suggested that hams still back home help the wives and parents of absent military personnel, but there were so few hams back then, compared to now, that it is unlikely that word got out to every ham serving overseas.

I used to know personally a lot of WW2 vets who were licensed before the war (back when many more of them were still around and active on the air), and despite hearing many war stories I don't recall anyone ever mentioning anything about registering their transmitter or anyone receiving a citation for failure to do so.

I do recall stories of bulletins, in voice and cw, being transmitted continuously over the air on the ham bands the day after the attack to inform amateurs that they had to cease transmitting immediately.  There was no internet back then to spread the word, and many individual League members, not just W1AW, volunteered as "Official Bulletin Stations" (originally called "Official Broadcast Stations").  OBS assignments existed at least up through the 1960's.

Several months before the US was drawn into the War, which was already raging in Europe, QSO's with foreign hams were prohibited.  US hams were advised that this included Canada and Cuba (which had until recently been a US protectorate much like the Philippines and was still thought of my many as US territory).

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

I have some photos from a long SK W1MMV who was a radioman back in the 20s. Visited him over the years after first meeting him in the early 80s. He told me that when the war broke out, the government went around picking up transmitters from hams not because they were worried about spies, but because they were low on radio gear and needed whatever they could get at that point. The transmitter in the photo is a beautiful black wrinkle set up in a 6' open frame rack. He always figured it ended up at the bottom of some lagoon in the South Pacific. He had a nice RCA receiver with it (dual tuning knobs, upside-down U shaped window, ACR-175 I think), can't remember if they took that or not.

He stared at the photos like a parent missing a child. No doubt a lot of affection, as well as sweat and money, went into such a rig back then.

[flintstone mop]

Yeah Don,
IBX is fairly close to OC City. This would definitely be a candidate for the VORTEX.
It would be quite a piece to resurrect. I'm sure it would need a lot of help with hi-fi audio

Fred

[W9GT]

I don't recognize any high level audio components.  If it is an AM transmitter, must be grid-modulated.  Perhaps, it is only a CW rig.  Nifty anyway!  Would be fun to get it running and maybe even add plate modulation with period - correct modulator.  Perhaps pr of 100THs or something similar. 

73,  Jack, W9GT

[k4kyv]

I have some photos from a long SK W1MMV who was a radioman back in the 20s. Visited him over the years after first meeting him in the early 80s. He told me that when the war broke out, the government went around picking up transmitters from hams not because they were worried about spies, but because they were low on radio gear and needed whatever they could get at that point. The transmitter in the photo is a beautiful black wrinkle set up in a 6' open frame rack. He always figured it ended up at the bottom of some lagoon in the South Pacific. He had a nice RCA receiver with it (dual tuning knobs, upside-down U shaped window, ACR-175 I think), can't remember if they took that or not.

I don't think they took rigs from hams involuntarily, but according to QST articles during the war, hams were urged to sell or donate commercially built transmitters to the government for use in the war effort.  Apparently they weren't very interested in homebrew rigs, and there weren't that many commercially built amateur transmitters on the air in those days, so the number of transmitters actually taken was probably small.  Later, they made an appeal to amateurs to donate panel meters, which were in short supply.  I recall seeing a wartime QST front cover with a photo of meters all over it to get hams' attention.

Quartz for crystals was in short supply, and that was one of the things put on the war priority list, so that it became practically unobtainable.  Those holding a large amount of raw quartz or more than 10 unmounted crystals were required to register with the government.

One of the reasons pre-WW2 automobiles became in such short supply was that during the war, tires were all but unobtainable and gas was strictly rationed.  Many of the owners of Model A's, Model T's and similar early model cars sent them to the metal recyclers because even though still in good running condition, they were of no use without tires and gas, and contribution to the war effort was considered the patriotic thing to do.  Old timers have said that right up to the beginning of the War, Model T's and A's were very abundant, probably still 25% or more of the cars on the road, and that appears credible when you see old photos of city streets from the mid to late 30's.

No doubt a lot of early radio equipment and components went the way of antique cars.

Regarding that rig on ePay, many transmitters from the 30's were CW only.  Phone operators were in the minority, and ARRL snubbed phone as somewhat of a second-rate form of amateur radio, with frequently derisive remarks in QST.  They didn't really get 100% on the phone bandwagon until SSB first appeared in the late 40's.

Interestingly, as of this moment, with only about 17 hours to go, still no bids.  I wonder if interest in vintage radio might be somewhat subsiding.  It seems that just a few years ago, an old buzzard transmitter from that era in as good condition as that one would have fetched big bucks, bidded up way beyond its actual worth.

Or perhaps everyone is waiting to put in their bids the last few seconds.  I might be tempted to bid on it myself, but I don't need it badly enough to travel that far, plus my shack is so full of stuff  I can hardly even walk in there these days through all the clutter.

[k4kyv]

Bidding closed.  Zero bids on the transmitter.

[Opcom]

looks like ebay no longer shows the listing.. ? Pity, it was probably transmitter pr0n worth looking at.

And can you imagine the howl that would today arise among jaded hams if we were in a war so bad that the country needed all the "modern" plastic HF radios for war use? The old iron would probably be safe..

"So and so ham was arrested yesterday in violation of the patriot act II after authorities alerted by his grandson found a hoard of over 15 unregistered SSB transceivers and several pieces of test equipment..   Grandson said he thought the man, who had been having many strange visitors at night, had merely been selling drugs, but was horrified to learn it was slopbuckets, and called the police immediately.."

[k4kyv]

I downloaded the photos while the item was still up.

Hopefully someone was able to get the seller's contact information and will be able to work out a deal directly with him before the transmitter goes to the landfill.

The economy must be really bad, or else "vintage radio" has lost a substantial amount of its orgasmic appeal.  It's hard to imagine that no-one at all bid on that rig, especially at the price of its starting bid.

[N3DRB The Derb]

most of em dont want homebrew, no matter how good.

maybe it will be relisted. I hate hinking of it going ino a dumpster.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

It's still viewable:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160278501349&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

I downloaded the photos while the item was still up.

Hopefully someone was able to get the seller's contact information and will be able to work out a deal directly with him before the transmitter goes to the landfill.

The economy must be really bad, or else "vintage radio" has lost a substantial amount of its orgasmic appeal.  It's hard to imagine that no-one at all bid on that rig, especially at the price of its starting bid.

Hello Don,Derb and Everyone,
                                       After the owner of said transmitter didn't get any "bites", he removed the two 860's (one was a RCA, the other a DeForest) and tried to peddle them on evil bay since he thought they'd bring a lot of money. As he found out, they didn't bring as much as he anticipated so he reniged on selling the two tubes.

Today at approx 12 noon, there was a large funnel cloud that came down I95 South, then RT 1 South to Rt 13 South, passed Dover Downs raceway and proceeded to RT 50 into Southern Maryland past Salisbury area and proceeded toward the small town of Cambridge Md (where the SK builder W3BY lived). The funnel cloud became larger and went about 10 miles into the boondocks to a small town near Hebron Maryland, swooped down and sucked the kewl OB HB TX off of the sellers porch and then proceeded to backtrack it's way to Washington Crossing,Pennsylvania.

I made him a deal and bought the thing for his original starting price. He had intended to pluck all of the tubes out of it, sell them on evil bay for whatever he could get for them and junk the rest.

It's much much kewler than the pictures on ebay depict. The front panel and sides are all aluminum, and the sides have holes drilled into them in the shape of ARRL diamonds. Each aluminum panel has a groove in the upper and lower panel brackets so the panel can be removed for easy servicing. You have to see it to believe the work he put into it! The top of the transmitter has two pyrex insulators for each leg of the transmission line feed.

The tube lineup is as follows: A 59 xtal oscillator that uses the gargantuan General radio X cut blanks (lucky for me two came with the TX) into a Raytheon RK20A buffer amp into a pair of PP 860"s. It has some sort of arrangement into the key jack that appears to be connected to a cable that runs to a seperate smaller chassis containing a quad of 45's; possibly supressor grid modulating the RK20A and very possibly the PP 860's are the class C amp. I still have the thing in back of my station wagon and have to take it out to study it and figure out the circut. The HV supply is pretty much conventional and uses a pair of 866's and the low voltage supply has one 866JR that looks as it was a later addition. Like I mentioned, I still have it in back of my wagon and have to get some help taking it out so I can do a study of it. If it's not already a supressor grid modulated rig (very common in the 1935-37 era) It'll most likely become one - hi!

Judging from the construction technique and componentry used,ie: Bud coils, Cardwell breadslicers, DeForest tubes, etc etc and a plethora of globe 80's as rectifiers, I date the thing between 1934 and 36, probably no later. The FCC TX wartime registration tag is still affixed to the front panel! W3BY must have either been proud of it or didn't bother to use it after wartime restrictions were lifted.

I just love this kind of thing. It's like an archeological dig to figure out the circut and what went into it. So far I haven't turned it up, but as I previously mentioned, I just got it and still have to get it out of my wagon.

He threw in a box of "parts" that included one very disentegrated 80M tank coil, and a National "B" model 7180 battery eliminator, National's very first doghouse supply from 1927. I never saw one that old before and didn't realize that instead of having the conventional 4 pin female plug, it has terminal posts and a "dingus" above each one to adjust the voltage for your detector, audio amp, etc. Quite a novel idea that allowed the purchaser to tailor the "B" voltages to his particular application. Even the National "N" marque os different from what was used later in the 1920's, and  throughout their entire history. It even has a globe #80 tube in it!

The transmitter along with the very early National "doghouse" supply will definitely be earmarked for a thorough restoration. I want to retain the wartime label on the front panel for history's sake.

"Supressor Grid" Mod-U-Later,
                                        Joe Cro N3IBX
                         

[N3DRB The Derb]

joe, god bless you. Keep her safe.   

[k4kyv]

He had intended to pluck all of the tubes out of it, sell them on evil bay for whatever he could get for them and junk the rest.

Joe,

Glad you were able to rescue it from the bottom-feeder.  But you would have had some competition if I had lived a little closer. 

It  looks like it came right out of 1935, with maybe a few years of use before the tag was attached, and that it never saw any more use after the War.  A rare item indeed, because some hammy hambone type usually parted out and totally destroyed such rigs, if the original builder hadn't already recycled the parts to construct something more modern, after amateurs were allowed back on the air.

I'd say more likely the quad of 45's control or screen grid modulates the 860's than the RK-20, since the 860's would have to run linear.  The 860's have no suppressor grid.

Another possibility is that the 45's are used to cathode key one or more stages of the transmitter on cw.  Vacuum tube keyers are described in handbooks of that era, used to get the HV and excessive current off the key contacts.

My HF-300 rig uses a 59 driving an 802, driving a 211, which drives the HF-300's.  I cathode key the 802 stage with an outboard electronic cathode keyer, but mine uses a TV sweep transistor instead of a bunch of triode tubes in parallel.  The  same keyer cathode keys the parallel 807's and one of the 12BY7's in the Gates - total about 250 ma - with practically no voltage drop.

Be sure to post some photos and circuit descriptions as you get it restored.

I would try to mount and preserve the WW2 FCC certificate with something better looking and more protective than scotch tape. Maybe laminate it or at least cover it with transparent plastic.  That's part of the transmitter's history.

I'm still really surprised he got no bites on that transmitter on ePay.

[N3DRB The Derb]

they dont want homebrew. they cant make any money offa it. look at the guys experience - he got no bids.  Homebrew is death, there's just no money there. Which is good for users like Don & me.

those 860's might just be in linear service amping he RK-60 when in phone mode, and he plug n jack switches the thing from fone to hi power class C CW service. That's my bet.

in 1934 class B fone would have not even been a full year old. before class B, you often saw stuff like this.

I say the rig is early 1934'ish. Vortex has it pegged.

[ka3zlr]

I'm not surprised, it requires work...that's not today's thing at all.

I can't think of a better place for it, Good On ya Joe...

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

He told me he has TWENTY EIGHT watchers on it and not a single bidder when "push came to shove" - hi! The guy is a well sleazoned evilbayer and told me he never saw that type of activity before. My guess is nobody wanted it because of it's bulk, and the fact that most homebrew "stuff" doesn't bring what you might think it would due to the the fact that it was a pickup only item and he wouldn't ship it. Shipping and crating costs would have been extravagant to say the least. He thought someone in the "Delmarva" area would buy it, and was surprised someone from North of Philadelphia came to get it. The trip to pick it up and bring it home was almost 400 miles exactly. If it wasn't for my 4 cylinder 30MPG 1995 Toyota Camry station wagon, the trip would have been prohibitive due to high fuel costs nowadays! I have the thing positioned to the right side of the cargo area, and the whole car has a pronounced pitch to the right when going down the road with the transmitter in it - hi!

When I say he lived in the boondocks I wasn't kidding. He was at least ten miles off any secondary or tertiary road, and there were nothing but farms for miles around. He didn't have a address on his mailbox. I found his house since I spotted the transmitter on his front porch! This was in extreme Southern Maryland, and he had a bit of a unusual Southern drawl, almost like a Virginian from the Western part of the state. He told me he bought the thing, and other Ham "stuff" at a local auction. He paid $315 for the transmitter in hopes of plucking the tubes out of it and making big money on them. He stated he did want to sell it intact after he got it home and was hoping on making some money on it the way it was since it was kind of "neat" and it's original builder put so much time into building it. I asked him why so much for the transmitter, and he told me he had a couple of locals bidding against him on it. I reckon they all had "tubepluckin and peddlin" in mind. In a seperate lot he acquired three 813's with "NEW" written on them and got something like $150 for the trio in a seperate ebay auction.

Say what you will about the evilbay experience and his putting the goods on evilbay, but if it weren't for evilbay, guys like him would be denied a income; and we all would never have seen the thing in the first place, let alone one of us actually get it.

What surprised me is that the thing was intact, unaltered, modernized, or canabilized for it's parts. I Googled W3BY, the transmitters' builder, and found that he was active until the time he became a Silent Key. The seller mentioned that some people knew him at the auction, and mentioned he was a "anal retentive" perfectionist with everything he built. With the FCC wartime sticker still attached I would have to assume he built or bought something else after WWII, and just had the old transmitter around as a momento. The only thing that appears modernized is the addition of Taylor branded globe style 866jr. rectifier. These date to very very late 1938 or early 1939. Why only one of them in the LV supply is still a puzzle as they were half wave rectifiers like their bigger brother, the 866. It's possible the wrong tube is in the socket, or for some reason he only wanted half the voltage out of his LV transformer.

I think it's very likely the 45's were used for cathode keying, but again, still not sure since I have to study the circut and find out more about it. Lucky for me he didn't know what 45's are worth since the quad of them would have probably fetched his opening price of $199. I didn't quibble with the price since I thought it to be very reasonable enough, and didn't want to jeapordize my chances of getting the thing. With the 45's, the globe 80's, RK20A, 860's and other tubes in it, It would have fetched a bit more than I paid for it just for it's tube compliment. Even a good used #59 would fetch $10 or so on evil bay.

After I get it out of the car and cleaned up a bit, I'll post a few pics here. Like I previously mentioned, if it's not a supressor grid modulated rig and CW only, I wouldn't want to do any type of renovations that would alter it. If not already a suppressor grid modulated rig, it'll probably become one. If I were to class B modulate it, I'd have to either greatly alter the thing, or most likely use another equipment rack to house the audio equipment necessary to use it on phone. My guess is that in it's present state it probably will put out about 200W from the PP 860's, maybe a trifle more on CW, somewhat less on fone depending on how the 860's interact with the RK20A. I could change the RK20A to a RK-28/803, but that would alter it's original configuration.

Another possibility if it is a 'fone rig, is the audio equipment was in a seperate desktop cabinet, which was a popular way of doing before WWII.

I have lots to figure out with it and can't wait to doso!

Best Regards and many thanks for the comments. I definitely hope to work you'ins on the air with it in the future.
               Joe Cro N3IBX

[W1EUJ]

Looks like that 860 I sent you might be of some use.