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Author Topic: IARU REGION 2 MF/HF BAND PLAN, effective 01 JA 2008, would limit AM operation.  (Read 440164 times)
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Ed/KB1HYS
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« Reply #600 on: December 12, 2007, 07:14:20 PM »

Man, that email has me worried.  We've always had to fight against Idiot Slopbucketeers, but now a lot of otherwise reasonable folks will think we are flaunting some rules or regs or something (they will just know that AM is illegal and that will be enough) So just another reason why this "band Plan" should have been much more widely publicized and disgussed.

It's damn near IMPOSSIBLE to unteach something once it's out...

I guess I'd better build that QRO rig double quick!! STRAP may be the only solution left to us.
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73 de Ed/KB1HYS
Happiness is Hot Tubes, Cold 807's, and warm room filling AM Sound.
 "I've spent three quarters of my life trying to figure out how to do a $50 job for $.50, the rest I spent trying to come up with the $0.50" - D. Gingery
k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #601 on: December 12, 2007, 07:49:57 PM »


Man, that email has me worried.  We've always had to fight against Idiot Slopbucketeers, but now a lot of otherwise reasonable folks will think we are flaunting some rules or regs or something (they will just know that AM is illegal and that will be enough) So just another reason why this "band Plan" should have been much more widely publicized and disgussed.

It's damn near IMPOSSIBLE to unteach something once it's out...

I guess I'd better build that QRO rig double quick!! STRAP may be the only solution left to us.

That's exactly my thoughts (see my previous posting) why we should be concerned about this thing even though it doesn't affect our legal standing.  To a lot of people, this will make us out to be "bad guys" regardless, simply because we are intentionally ignoring the published band plan.  And this is happening just as AM had finally once again become accepted by the greater amateur radio community as a legitimate facet of mainstream amateur radio.

Will see you on 3625-3780 and 3800-3875, as well as anywhere on 160, the week starting 01JA08.  I'll have my hand on the throttle.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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WB2EMS
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« Reply #602 on: December 12, 2007, 09:08:48 PM »

That letter is worrisome for just the reasons stated. I wonder if it might be possible to preempt some of the problems by having Riley or someone authoritative at the FCC put out some sort of statement to head off the yahoos who will be just  itching to be kilocycle kops because "AM is now illegal". Maybe a couple of quick enforcement actions against QRM'ers would help too.

Probably too much to hope for.

Damn the ARRL for starting this mess!
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73 de Kevin, WB2EMS
Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #603 on: December 12, 2007, 10:36:06 PM »

Damn the ARRL for starting this mess!

They didn't.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
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« Reply #604 on: December 12, 2007, 11:05:41 PM »

I was poking around the IARU Region 3 web site and spotted a Word file that was presented by the IARU Region 2 Secretary at a Region 3 meeting in August 2006. It was a review of recent activities in IARU Region 2.

One highlight:
"The Region 2 HF Committee was reactivated by the Executive Committee which has selected a group of very experienced and knowledgeable amateur radio to integrate it. The R2HFC will be chaired by Mark Weiss K6FG and the other committee members are:  Robert Simpson VE3ODR, Ramon Santoyo XE1KK, Jeff Austin 9Y4JA, Region 2 Secretary Reinaldo Leandro YV5AMH and R2 Director Reinaldo Szama LU2AH. One of the first orders of business for the newly appointed committee will be to review the Region 2 band plans and make any recommendations for changes to the band plans for adoption at the next triennial Region 2 Conference."

The entire report is here:
http://www.jarl.or.jp/iaru-r3/r3bandplan.doc
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
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« Reply #605 on: December 13, 2007, 09:00:39 AM »

  13,700+ views to this thread.
 THIRTEEN THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED PLUS!!!
  AM , the most purist voice mode of radio communication will never be denied.
  Those in the backrooms, pushing for it's demise, will be soundly defeated by the sheer
   numbers of the members of our community

  Greg, n1exi
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #606 on: December 13, 2007, 09:24:19 AM »

Quote
"The Region 2 HF Committee was reactivated by the Executive Committee....

Pete.... who is (on) the "Executive Committee Huh? I can't find that anywhere.

Never mind ......... R2 EXECS
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #607 on: December 13, 2007, 03:19:18 PM »

  13,700+ views to this thread.
 THIRTEEN THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED PLUS!!!
  AM , the most purist voice mode of radio communication will never be denied.
  Those in the backrooms, pushing for it's demise, will be soundly defeated by the sheer
   numbers of the members of our community

Most of us have helped tick up the number by opening the thread multiple times as more comments are added.  But still, that number suggests that a lot of outsiders have discovered it as well.  Hopefully, that includes some of the HQ gang.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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WA3VJB
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« Reply #608 on: December 14, 2007, 08:16:09 AM »

Different audience now gets to consider the mess made in Brazil.

http://www.eham.net/articles/18150
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« Reply #609 on: December 14, 2007, 09:18:08 AM »

I see W8JI has submitted his "words of wisdom." Naturally, he being employed by one of QST's biggest advertisers, he would singing praises of the ARRgghhL.
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antenna bristle with the energy. Emotional feedback, on timeless wavelength, bearing a gift beyond lights, almost free.... Spirit of Radio/Rush
WD8BIL
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« Reply #610 on: December 14, 2007, 11:20:57 AM »

Tom's a very bright, almost brilliant, guy........ Technically.

Unfortunatly many very bright people tend to be arrogant and condescending. Their need to control those who disagree with them is consuming ,at times. Thus we get calls for more regulations designed to be what's "best" for the common man.

Throughout history this has only lead to a "slavery" of types and can only be accomplished by bringing the masses DOWN to a state of mediocrity. It would be a shame if we allow ham radio to be regulated to a 2.7Khz squawking mass. If that ever happens... I'm gone huntin'. My station proceeds could fund a nice Elk hunt in Loveland, Colorado.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #611 on: December 14, 2007, 12:38:59 PM »

He's very competent technically in some narrow areas. Outside of those he has shown great ignorance. He surely does not understand the spectral characteristics of the human voice (or he chooses to ignore) as his flawed analysis of enhanced bandwidth SSB shows.
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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #612 on: December 14, 2007, 01:17:18 PM »

The new IARU Region 2 Band Plan continues to rattle the world.

This news headline appeared on Yahoo this morning:
Poor nations vow to resist “threats” to curb emissions.
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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
WD8BIL
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« Reply #613 on: December 14, 2007, 01:25:53 PM »

 You sure they ain't talking about birth control, Tom ? Roll Eyes
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #614 on: December 14, 2007, 01:29:52 PM »

One can always selectively (intentionally or otherwise)  present facts to prove one's assertions.

One should always bear in mind that the more you know, the more you (should) recognize all of the stuff that you don't know.

It's because of a lack of awareness, not intelligence, that you sometimes have to tell someone they have halitosis.

PS:

Buddly, it was just announced that the National Park Service is going to start allowing Elk hunting in Rocky Mountain National Park for the first time in a hundred years, to cull the resulting overpopulation. You might want to keep an ear open for details. I would imagine fairly easy pickings the first year's hunt, but that terrain up there sure can be challenging and motor vehicle use is restricted.



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Ed/KB1HYS
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« Reply #615 on: December 14, 2007, 03:36:59 PM »

All this because some people think that Digital is the "Wave of the Future" and "of course it's better, it's Digital" etc.

Oh and lets not forget the Government Cash Cow Influence...

Quote
Several years ago, the Department of Homeland Security suggested to the ARRL president that the Amateur community should design and maintain a national digital network for emergency communications purposes.  Winlink 2000 was their network of choice. Today, the ARRL Amateur Radio Emergency Service® (ARES) and Radio amateur civil emergency service (RACES) has been busy deploying Winlink 2000 county by county across the country .


Always Follow the Money.

Perhaps a last attempt to keep the "Service" relevant in the New Age. 

Does this remind any of the OT fella's of how the SSB/AM wars started???  HEY LOOK A NEW TECHNOLOGY  AINT IT JUST SOOOOOO...

Ahh I'm disgusted... I guess if all this goes through, I'll just go back to making Tesla Coils... that are Resonant on the HF bands!!!
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73 de Ed/KB1HYS
Happiness is Hot Tubes, Cold 807's, and warm room filling AM Sound.
 "I've spent three quarters of my life trying to figure out how to do a $50 job for $.50, the rest I spent trying to come up with the $0.50" - D. Gingery
Art
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« Reply #616 on: December 14, 2007, 04:27:42 PM »

"Their need to control those who disagree with them is consuming ,at times. Thus we get calls for more regulations designed to be what's "best" for the common man."

Since only a small portion of US amateur radio operators benefit from this ARRL (oh 'scuze me. . .  it wasn't really the ARRL . . . just ARRL management and past management) scheme. . . . and no countries can be found who benefit from this ARRL scheme. Why does it exist?
This has a sadly familiar ring to it. It is a microcosm of larger constructs today. In my opinion:The ARRL and very few individuals obviously have only their own interests in mind and are willing to inflict their actions and constraints on others to aggrandize and enrich themselves. At least the few individuals who support this are to be respected for their opinions. They are not charged with, nor in any way, representing other than themselves. (Though they obviously would like you to believe they do.) The ARRL *is* charged with representing the majority of amateur radio operators in the US in this matter. They are simply not doing so. That is the problem.


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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #617 on: December 14, 2007, 05:59:46 PM »

Under the heading of – “Still Waiting for Minutes To Be Published” -

In addition to the IARU Region II Conference of September, 2007,

Add the following:

Minutes Of the ARRL Executive Committee,  Little Rock, Arkansas – October  6, 2007.  This would be Number 482.
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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
ka3zlr
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« Reply #618 on: December 14, 2007, 06:32:00 PM »

Sometimes i think..the elimination of AM one of the easiest basic signals to produce is warranted  inlue of the Media push to eliminate local broadcast for piped in signals. one hand washes the other who's in bed with who...look at cable TV.. what a Joke all these channels and I watch 3...for how much money...unreal...

Todays Corps want it all under one roof..the money is in closed circuit...nothing free...close all the gaps...
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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #619 on: December 14, 2007, 07:32:20 PM »

I just found the minutes of the ARRL October 2007 Executive Committee meeting by searching with Google.   The minutes are normally announced on the ARRL site under "News/Bulletins" then click "Announcements".  The Announcements page has not been updated since October 25, about the time one would expect the Minutes announcement to be posted by.

The MINUTES OF ARRL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE, Number 484, Little Rock, Arkansas – October 6, 2007, can be found here:

http://www.arrl.org/announce/ec_minutes_484.html

It looks like there have been 2 additional executive committee meetings since the last bi-annual meeting in March (#481) before this October meeting.
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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
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« Reply #620 on: December 14, 2007, 07:47:44 PM »

The 2 interceding teleconference meeting minutes can be found at:

http://www.arrl.org/announce/ec_minutes_482.html

http://www.arrl.org/announce/ec_minutes_483.html

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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
WA3VJB
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« Reply #621 on: December 14, 2007, 10:08:22 PM »

I see W8JI has submitted his "words of wisdom." Naturally, he being employed by one of QST's biggest advertisers, he would singing praises of the ARRgghhL.

Which one does he work for ? Not that it matters.
Looks like he's got wood for AM. From his website, the only AM he cites has no actual victim to his rant:
Quote
The Operator Problem
The final problem is not so much the mentally deranged operator, they are few and far between, but rather the selfish unbending operator who only follows the letter of the law. Without enforceable bandwidth guidelines, a selfish operator could park a transmitter that would wipe out weak narrow signals anywhere he wanted. He could claim he didn't hear you, and you could not prove differently. 160 meter weak signal operators are all familiar with a group of W5's who parked on 1824 SSB just "because they could". The JA stations only have 1810-1825, many other DX stations could not go below 1810 or above 1825, and this was a frequent spot for DXpeditions to operate CW.  They clearly and intentionally violated the bandplan...because they felt they legally could.

It took years and ultimately required FCC intervention to get them to move to another frequency in an otherwise clear band!

They aren't the only group. WA0RCR runs wide AM broadcasts on 1860 KHz, wiping out SSB up and down 5kHz. In the 1970's W8LZM, W8ETO, W8LAD, and a few others formed a "Window Shade Net" with the sole intention of QRM'ing weak DX. One of the original "Window Shade Net" members is still alive and actively QRM'ing DX today! He has a history of over 40 years of willful QRM and violating bandplans.

One person can easily wipe out the pleasure of hundreds when we depend on bandplans. They only need a desire to cause QRM, without enforceable bandplans they have the means.

A workable non-regulated band requires all operators to be willing to sacrifice and compromise. It requires everyone to respect bandplans, and to use good judgment.

We often hear "160 works without segmentation", yet when a petition was filed to segment the band several hundred people filed in favor of segmentation. Only a handful filed against forced segmentation, and those people were all wide bandwidth mode operators.  "160 works" for those who work wider modes with strong signals, and it works exceptionally well for those who like to cause intentional QRM. 

Summary
There is logical technical evidence to support this statement. Mixed modes and mixed bandwidths are both clearly problematic.

We need to encourage regulations that separate or segment areas of bands by signal bandwidth.


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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #622 on: December 14, 2007, 10:23:06 PM »

The 2 interceding teleconference meeting minutes can be found at:

http://www.arrl.org/announce/ec_minutes_482.html

http://www.arrl.org/announce/ec_minutes_483.html


Actually we reported on the October Meeting on the ARRL Forum back on October 17th.
http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=12373.0
I didn't go further back to find the earlier one. "We" also try to highlight and/or "point to" any of the Committee Meetings, that are presented at the BoD meetings, that may have some relevance.
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #623 on: December 15, 2007, 12:11:41 AM »

Let me get this straight.
I'm not supposed to operate on AM because some hams that I never heard of supposedly broke the law 30 years ago?

Makes perfect sense to me.

I better turn my sideband rig off, too. God knows what sort of unlawful evil has been perpetrated on 20 meter SSB...

And don't bring up the repeater jammers in California or I'll have to dump the 2 meter FM rig, too.


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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #624 on: December 15, 2007, 01:02:23 AM »

Quote
but rather the selfish unbending operator who only follows the letter of the law.

This is a laughable statement since he is just as selfish and unbending. These so called, weak signal DXers on 160 want every one else in the word to step aside for their little sideshow. Never mind that they represent far less than 1% of active amateur radio operators. If that's not selfish, I don't know what is.
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