Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

What will happen? What won't happen? Who knows? I'm a whole lot more concerned at the lack of AM activity down below 3800. Everyone was sooooo excited about getting MORE SPACE TO SPREAD OUT, yet most nights only SSB signals are heard down there. I hear KK4AM, 'KYV, 'HUZ, 'JN, 'AD, 'VJB and very few others down there with any regularity. Bill and Ralph have a brief 'what's for dinner' gathering on 3733 but vacate at 6PM for a Canadian SSB net. I've already had one run-in with a group of SSB folks who have taken 3709 as their new net frequency, others are doing the same up and down the band.

Not sure who said it first on here, but our time might be better spent getting on the air and being heard instead of pissing and moaning on here about how bad amateur radio is these days. Regardless of whether you think dumping the code requirement was good or bad, you're inevitably preaching to the choir in this forum. Get on the air, stir up some activity, call CQ if you don't hear anyone. 

Kinda makes me think of the monthly CCA AM net, or the southern AMI net. All kinds of wonderful AM stations on the air, the majority of them not to be heard again until the next 'net'. Why is anyone worried about what's going to happen to the bands if they can be on the air, but aren't?

Be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Get on the air, set a good example, draw more good folks to AM. I doubt the FCC will care how active we are on here if(when?) the day ever comes to consider bandwidth again.

[WA1GFZ]

Once a ham operator was considered a talented person. Today the trend is to turn it into a free for all just to add to the masses. I think it is a mistake. We have plenty of idiots on the bands now.
These people would be better suited with a computer and a phone line.
As a JN I looked up to buzzards with respect...tune across the bands now and see if you can find anyone to respect or better yet have your kids look up to.

It isn't so much no code as it is no clue.....

[Pete, WA2CWA]

As a JN I looked up to buzzards with respect...tune across the bands now and see if you can find anyone to respect or better yet have your kids look up to.

They only need to look across the dinner table

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Advances in technology only further the argument for a more qualified amateur radio population not less. If this means less amateurs, so be it. Amateur radio made some of its biggest impact when the numbers were less than 100,000. More numbers does not mean more clout or leverage. Never did, never will.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Hi Pete,

With all due respect, I don't find the analogy you are attempting to draw between a drivers license and an amateur radio license particularly valid.

Here in PA, a driver's license is required to run a car on a public road. To perform the annual state mechanical safety inspection a state-issued inspection license IS required. Applicants study and take a test to get their State Inspection License. This is wholly apart and separate from a driver's license. I'm not sure what is required to do emissions testing, but PA is bureaucratic up the wazoo so I'm certain there is an additional layer of certification required.

Here in the U. S., an amateur license is required to run an amateur radio station on FCC authorized band segments(the FCC authorized public road). Wasn't talking about annual state inspections, etc. I said, "Can’t join the driving fraternity until you demonstrate proficiency in technical and mechanical knowledge in the operation and maintenance of an automobile in your written driving test." I was referring to the maintenance of your own automobile ((i.e. back yard mechanic)

On the other hand, ALL FCC issued amateur licenses enable the licenseholder to do electronic testing, repair, modification, and construction of receivers, transmitters, transmitters, transceivers, antennas, antenna tuners, power supplies, test equipment & other ancilliary equipment. Although there is currently no 'final inspector' for the work we do on our own equipment, there is some expectation the work to be done is completed with electrical safety (NEC rules apply) and spectral purity (Part 97 rules apply) uppermost in one's mind, among other things.

An amateur license doesn't enable you to do any of these things. There are thousands of qualified electronic service people who don't have amateur licenses.

If "amateur radio is a communicating arena", as you write above, then I agree, the current licensing system needs re-tooled. But I thought we had other services for this, such as cellular telephones, MURS, FRS, WI-FI, etc.

Can you identify when the next world-wide FRS or cellular contest is going to be held? Then there are some people who just like to get on the air to talk to people in far-away places, make new friends, keep in contact with old ones, etc. There are many aspects of amateur radio that don't require vast technical knowledge.

I also disagree with your assertion we in the amateur community are not important in the eyes of the FCC and other government agencies as regards our licensing and rules & regulations. Ever hear of the ECFS? Some of the regulars on this board are to be congratulated for their comments in the 'Novice Refarming' docket, which resulted in the expansion of the 75 meter phone band. The system worked; the FCC can still do a good job when not a lot of $$$ are involved. Futhermore, many of the 'heavy hitters' on this board commented on the League's Regulation by Bandwidth petition. A countervailing petition, RM-11305, essentially triumphed, enough so it's originators withdrew the petition.  Another example of the system working Pete.

I still believe that "numbers" can play an important role along with lots of dialogue  to groups that need to hear from the amateur radio community. As numbers decline, it becomes increasing difficult to capture someone's ear as the number of active participants in the hobby slowly fades away. However, opinions vary widely on whether increases or decreases in the amateur population will have any effect on the hobby's future. 

The expansion of the phone bands was blessed by the FCC almost two years before RM's 11305 and 11306 were introduced. What took so long was the "Report and Order". The "refarming" comments did tweak the FCC into allocating more voice space for the Extra Class license holder.

You stated: "Futhermore, many of the 'heavy hitters' on this board commented on the League's Regulation by Bandwidth petition. A countervailing petition, RM-11305, essentially triumphed, enough so it's originators withdrew the petition."

Many of us commented on both proposals and both proposals were beat hard into the ground. 11305's any mode, any bandwidth, anywhere, in my opinion, never got off the ground. The voice expansion was already blessed by the FCC two years prior.

I think the same thing can be done to straighten out this licensing mess. I'm waiting for the ARRL to propose something so all of us can oppose it!

Sorry, I think for myself. If someone, or some group, sets forth a proposal that I believe has merit for the betterment of amateur radio, I will support it regardless of who proposes it. Following the crowd, because the crowd has similar interests to mine, is something I never adhere to.

I love amateur radio, and feel more strongly than ever it is good for people of all descriptions to get involved exactly as the Basis and Purpose of Part 97 states. Even if we don't have a manufacturing economy anymore, and technical knowledge is no longer required for a services/retail sales-based economy, there will always be a need for people who can do math without a calculator, or design an electronic circuit without a computer program, or cobble together a functioning communications circuit when the 'black boxes' go down.

Yep, I still own two slide rules and I've never designed an electronic circuit with a computer. When the "black boxes" go down, it's time to spend quality time with the family or friends.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

History shows this to be quite untrue.

I still believe that "numbers" can play an important role along with lots of dialogue  to groups that need to hear from the amateur radio community. As numbers decline, it becomes increasing difficult to capture someone's ear as the number of active participants in the hobby slowly fades away. However, opinions vary widely on whether increases or decreases in the amateur population will have any effect on the hobby's future.

[WA1GFZ]

All I know is if you fill the ham bands with a bunch of idiots the hobby will suffer.
Example: Last Night a gang of slop buckets come on 2 KHz above the gray hair net and continue after they complain about it. The band has plenty of room so why do people have to do this. Answer you invite morons into the hobby you have to live with their lack of class. Just tune the 40 channels around 27 MHz. Do you want this to be ham radio?
ARRL looks at it as a way to increase members paying them money.

[N3DRB The Derb]

hasnt that sort of thing been going on with wonderful 13 and 20 wpm code passers for years?

[The Slab Bacon]

with all of the pissing and moaning about this, It has done one thing that I have been trying to do for years. My wife now has her ticket!! She passed the technician test with just information learned from hanging around with me when I was operating!! She took a practice test for the general on qrz and got 19 out of 36 right just from listening to us!! She will have her general by the end of the month!! I have been after her to do it for years, but her dyslexia always made the code a huge stumbling block. I now get to have fun teasing her with some gross phonetics for her call!

                                                                                The Slab Bacon

[k4kyv]

Just as I predicted, after the initial onrush, once the new wore off the new phone frequencies, many of the stations would drift back and settle in to the old habitual frequencies, and activity in the expanded band would dwindle.

That's exactly what I have been observing since about mid-January.  Not only with AM, but SSB as well.  Saturday night after about 0330 GMT, the band was wide open, QRN was non-existent, yet there were just a handful of signals in the entire Extra portion.

Nevertheless, on the new frequencies, I have worked AM'ers I had never heard before.  Many are trying out their riceboxes on AM for the first time (and some of them manage to sound pretty close to broadcast quality), while others are coming out of the woodwork with Rangers, DX-100's etc.  Most have been running low power, but with all the room on the band, it is possible to get on 75 at night with  low power and be heard all over the continent - a near impossibility before 15th December.

I have been on 3870-90 maybe once or twice since the band opened up.  I listen up there, and hear the  same thing as always: 2 or 3 AM QSO's crammed into about 15 kc/s of spectrum, several slopbuckets quacking away in between and sometimes underneath the AM signals, and 8-10 AM stations in each old  buzzard style roundtable.

So I  have pretty much been staying below 3750, calling CQ in one of the wide-open spaces when I hear no AM QSO already in progress.  Several of the ricebox owners who tried out their rigs on AM for the first time and answered my CQ,  have said they liked operating the mode and would interested in working AM some more.

The only hassle I have had is from a couple of "dead-air groups," i.e. they monitor a frequency sometimes for hours, without transmitting, but as soon as someone outside the group transmit near the frequency they have chosen to squat upon, several members of the group jump on the frequency and very rudely make a claim that the frequency is "in use."  Usually I just try to avoid such rubbish, but if I come on a clear frequency that I have monitored for over 20 minutes and heard no activity, then I am the one using the frequency, and I tend to be stubborn about moving out of their way when they try to run me off.

But all in all, I hear a  lot less rudeness on 75 than I used to hear before the expansion.

[N6WDR]

All I know is if you fill the ham bands with a bunch of idiots the hobby will suffer.
Example: Last Night a gang of slop buckets come on 2 KHz above the gray hair net and continue after they complain about it. The band has plenty of room so why do people have to do this. Answer you invite morons into the hobby you have to live with their lack of class. Just tune the 40 channels around 27 MHz. Do you want this to be ham radio?

Let me start off with I am one of those so called morons that just passed his General last Saturday with out having to take the code.  I don’t consider my self lazy or any of the other things that have been said on this thread.  Not all people coming from the world of CB are lacked of class.  I have been in to CB radios since 1976 and have run across a lot of people that have made the jump to get their ticket and have enjoyed it.

I figured after all these years I would finally make the jump and get my Tech which I did last September and now last Saturday I passed the General.  I did this for the sole purpose of getting on 3885 with my Johnson Valiant that I have been restoring for the last year.  I enjoy working on my own stuff and building my own antennas so not all of us CBer’s are morons or lazy, I will say that a majority of them have a lot of issues.

 As far as worrying about them coming up into the ham bands I wouldn’t worry too much about that, they would rather sit on the CB and create hate and discontent, then to pick up a book and learn how this stuff really works.

Instead of bashing or pissing and moaning all the time about this issue, why not take these new people that will be coming and  teach them the correct way or correct procedures to use their radio.

I am fortunate to have a good Elmer Bill (K6TWO) to teach me all his knowledge and not lead me astray.  To me that is what all this radio business is all about, talking to and meeting wonderful people and teaching what you have learned through out the years.

Anyway I am done venting now,  I will put on my flak jacket now and prepare for incoming fire.

Richard KI6FAB

[K1MVP]

hasnt that sort of thing been going on with wonderful 13 and 20 wpm code passers for years?

This "downward slide" started IMO, and others, when the FCC turned over testing to the
VEC program, and also when the EXACT answers were published ala the famous Dick Bash
method.
The FCC could no longer "support" testing by examiners, due to manpower shortages.
This led to many abuses, in the VEC program,--or potentials for abuse.,--and this goes
back over 20 years.
Ham radio IS NOT the same as it was 25 years ago, and its just getting worse .
                                              73, K1MVP

P.S, I think the FCC would not care if HR did "self destuct",-- they have "bigger interests",
       IMO.       

[Pete, WA2CWA]

This "downward slide" started IMO, and others, when the FCC turned over testing to the
VEC program, and also when the EXACT answers were published ala the famous Dick Bash
method.
The FCC could no longer "support" testing by examiners, due to manpower shortages.
This led to many abuses, in the VEC program,--or potentials for abuse.,--and this goes
back over 20 years.
Ham radio IS NOT the same as it was 25 years ago, and its just getting worse .
                                              73, K1MVP

P.S, I think the FCC would not care if HR did "self destuct",-- they have "bigger interests",
       IMO.       

Here ya go:

[K1MVP]

Well Pete,--You DO have a sense of humor,--and maybe that`s what will go along way in saving
the future of ham radio.

                                    73`s K1MVP

[Ed KB1HVS]

with all of the pissing and moaning about this, It has done one thing that I have been trying to do for years. My wife now has her ticket!! She passed the technician test with just information learned from hanging around with me when I was operating!! She took a practice test for the general on qrz and got 19 out of 36 right just from listening to us!! She will have her general by the end of the month!! I have been after her to do it for years, but her dyslexia always made the code a huge stumbling block. I now get to have fun teasing her with some gross phonetics for her call!

                                                                                The Slab Bacon

  I wish my XYL would do it. Even for a Tech ticket I think it would be kinda nice to converse with her on 2m on her way home from work than blab on a dropping out cell phone. Should I bring her flowers with a question out of the study book each day?

[Joe Long]

Since 1976? 31 years on 11 meters? Thats a lot af 10-4s good buddy

[KB2WIG]

"Earlier a Florida court had ordered that 43 year-old Navy Capt Lisa Nowak, KC5ZTB, who was facing charges of attempted kidnapping and battery, could be freed on bail.  "


"P.S, I think the FCC would not care if HR did "self destuct",-- they have "bigger interests",
       IMO. "

I guess it is starting .... ..        klc

[w3jn]

Let me start off with I am one of those so called morons that just passed his General last Saturday with out having to take the code.  I don’t consider my self lazy or any of the other things that have been said on this thread. 

Richard KI6FAB

Dude, don't let the pissers and moaners get ya down.  Many (most) of us welcome you guys with open arms. 

As you can see from all the whining about the unpleasantness on 75 (the perpetrators of which have ALL passed the CW test), the CW test hasn't done a damn thing in keeping out morons.

Passing the CW test, or not, only measures your ability to copy CW.  Not your IQ.  Not your technical ability.  Not your ability to get along with people.  And certainly not your ability to hold an interesting QSO.

Some hams get it.  Others don't.  Too bad for them, I see nothing but good coming from a new group of enthusiastic hams.

[WA1GFZ]

Welcome Richard!
However you got here.
morons not Welcome we have plenty and yes it has little to do with CW.
I guess anyone who learned CW feels it is a filter but it is a proven fact morons can learn CW.
I have never run into a moron on CW though, only phone.

[w3jn]

How about the knuckleheads that insist on jamming AM QSOs with CW?

[N6WDR]

Thank You for the kind words guys , and I am glad to be here. 

I look foward to being able to hook up with you guys and holding a QSO with you on the air, but that will have to wait until after 23 FEB  .

Thanks again,
Richard KI6FAB 

[WD8BIL]

Anyway I am done venting now,  I will put on my flak jacket now and prepare for incoming fire.

Richard KI6FAB

Welcome aboard Richard..... looks like you'll do just fine !!!!

[The Slab Bacon]

Ah, yes,
           Welcome aboard Richard. the AM world is not for the thin skinned.
if you think this is a rough croud, you should have been there for one of the good old friday or saturday night break-in sessions!!

                                                               The Slab Bacon

[k4kyv]

How about the knuckleheads that insist on jamming AM QSOs with CW?

I had one of those on my QSO on 3685 last evening about 2400 GMT.  A dead-air-group slopbucketeer who didn't think his SSB signal was capable of doing any damage.

[Ed KB1HVS]

Thank You for the kind words guys , and I am glad to be here. 

I look foward to being able to hook up with you guys and holding a QSO with you on the air, but that will have to wait until after 23 FEB  .

Thanks again,
Richard KI6FAB 

  Why wait?  Only a few days left to be a boot ya know........