Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007

[Pete, WA2CWA]

FCC's Report and Order (R&O) in the "Morse code proceeding," WT Docket 05-235, is scheduled to appear in the Federal Register Wednesday, January 24. Assuming that occurs, the new Part 97 rules deleting any Morse code examination requirement for Amateur Radio license applicants would go into effect Friday, February 23, 2007.

It has appeared:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20071800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2007/E7-729.htm

Don't need this any more:

[k4kyv]

Haven't we essentially been codeless since 1999, or was it 2000? 2001?

Time flies, and it's amazing how quickly we lose track.

[W1UJR]

don't you mean code-less and CLUELESS?
After all, we still have published question and answers pools for each exam element.
I'd at least think that they would require we stiffen the technical requirements if we drop Element 1.
Heck, what's next, print and mail in your license?

I sure wish they offer a "Conditional" code-less license for say, a period not to exceed 12 months, after which HF privileges are lost if the CW element is not passed.

But no...yet another example of 2+2=whatever you feel it should equal.
After all, we don't want anyone feeling bad about themselves...

Pete, you can send those records my way, they'll play great on my old Victrola!

73 fellas - Bruce W1UJR

[Pete, WA2CWA]

don't you mean code-less and CLUELESS?
After all, we still have published question and answers pools for each exam element.
I'd at least think that they would require we stiffen the technical requirements if we drop Element 1.
Heck, what's next, print and mail in your license?

I sure wish they offer a "Conditional" code-less license for say, a period not to exceed 12 months, after which HF privileges are lost if the CW element is not passed.

But no...yet another example of 2+2=whatever you feel it should equal.
After all, we don't want anyone feeling bad about themselves...

Pete, you can send those records my way, they'll play great on my old Victrola!

73 fellas - Bruce W1UJR

What does code-less have anything to do with clueless? Going forward, new or seasoned amateurs who want to operate CW "the old way" can learn it on their own.

Passing a code test doesn’t measure intelligence. We have tons of seasoned amateurs today who seem to be clueless in many aspects of amateur radio technology and they passed a code test. Amateur Radio is evolving; but “code” will still be there if you want to use it. And, I doubt, stiffening technical testing requirements, would lower the “clueless” numbers. Some are born clueless and others work hard to get there.

I had some old code course records that came with a batch of manuals I picked up at Dayton years ago.  They’re long gone now. We did sailing practice with them.

[K1MVP]

Haven't we essentially been codeless since 1999, or was it 2000? 2001?

Time flies, and it's amazing how quickly we lose track.

IF what you say is "true" Don,--why is it a local club here is being "swamped"
with the "new general" applications, from NCT`s ?
Apparently the 5wpm must have been a "barrier" to many.
                                        73, K1MVP

[W1UJR]

After all, we still have published question and answers pools for each exam element.
I'd at least think that they would require we stiffen the technical requirements if we drop Element 1.
Heck, what's next, print and mail in your license?

I sure wish they offer a "Conditional" code-less license for say, a period not to exceed 12 months, after which HF privileges are lost if the CW element is not passed.

But no...yet another example of 2+2=whatever you feel it should equal.
After all, we don't want anyone feeling bad about themselves...

Pete, you can send those records my way, they'll play great on my old Victrola!

73 fellas - Bruce W1UJR

What does code-less have anything to do with clueless? Going forward, new or seasoned amateurs who want to operate CW "the old way" can learn it on their own.

Passing a code test doesn’t measure intelligence. We have tons of seasoned amateurs today who seem to be clueless in many aspects of amateur radio technology and they passed a code test. Amateur Radio is evolving; but “code” will still be there if you want to use it. And, I doubt, stiffening technical testing requirements, would lower the “clueless” numbers. Some are born clueless and others work hard to get there.

I had some old code course records that came with a batch of manuals I picked up at Dayton years ago.  They’re long gone now. We did sailing practice with them.

Yes Pete, you're correct, standards don't matter.

Heck, let's take your argument to its logical conclusion and just eliminate the written test altogether!
Isn't that the logical extension of what you state? 

[KF1Z]

IF what you say is "true" Don,--why is it a local club here is being "swamped"
with the "new general" applications, from NCT`s ?
Apparently the 5wpm must have been a "barrier" to many.
                                        73, K1MVP

Seems like a waste of time to file any applications now....
The can't be processed until Feb. 25th.....
Even if they just go take, and pass the test, they'll have to take their paperwork back
at the end of Feb.....


Lot's of people SAY the 5 wpm test is a barrier... but only because they don't care enough about getting the General or Extra ticket to try...
It was easier to whine about it until the rules got changed than it was to put a little effort into
 learning  it....
IMO

[w3jn]

What does code-less have anything to do with clueless? Going forward, new or seasoned amateurs who want to operate CW "the old way" can learn it on their own.

Passing a code test doesn’t measure intelligence. We have tons of seasoned amateurs today who seem to be clueless in many aspects of amateur radio technology and they passed a code test. Amateur Radio is evolving; but “code” will still be there if you want to use it. And, I doubt, stiffening technical testing requirements, would lower the “clueless” numbers. Some are born clueless and others work hard to get there.

Indeed.  See my sig line.

[W1UJR]

Bruce --

You NEED this :

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-WWII-MILITARY-DECODER-RECEIVER-MORSE-KEYER-TG-10F_W0QQitemZ170071727754QQihZ007QQcategoryZ585QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

73 Mark K3MSB

I do like that piece, most buzzardly indeed!
And the cool thing is that it looks like you can key the transmitter from the unit as well!
Looks like it uses one a photocell and light source for the actual "reading" of the tape.
Not sure of the size, but it even appears rack mountable!

I love old apparatus (no there is a word we don't hear often enough), and I've always admired the CW gear made by T.R. McElroy from Boston.

[K1MVP]

Pete,(CWA)
You and I have been "down this road" many times before,--my observations
are,--the ARRL wants to get the ###`s up, and thus the $$$ up.

The FCC wants to "streamline"  ham radio, to make as little work as
possible for itself,-- maybe even go to a generic license in the future.

And we still have many who believe this WILL be GOOD for the future
of HR.--Sorry,--I am not one of them.
                                     
                                     73, K1MVP,

p.s,.--the way I see it, is this will be a "boom" for the sale of "riceboxes"

[WA1GFZ]

if only the arrl could sell you a license and membership all in one bill.
gee maybe the rice box could be included on the Hatry payment plan
no that would be efficient.
you could hire the arrl technical dept to install your antenna
all you need to do is turn on and gab.

[W9GT]

if only the arrl could sell you a license and membership all in one bill.
gee maybe the rice box could be included on the Hatry payment plan
no that would be efficient.
you could hire the arrl technical dept to install your antenna
all you need to do is turn on and gab.

Pete,(CWA)
You and I have been "down this road" many times before,--my observations
are,--the ARRL wants to get the ###`s up, and thus the $$$ up.

The FCC wants to "streamline" ham radio, to make as little work as
possible for itself,-- maybe even go to a generic license in the future.

And we still have many who believe this WILL be GOOD for the future
of HR.--Sorry,--I am not one of them.
                                     
                                     73, K1MVP,

p.s,.--the way I see it, is this will be a "boom" for the sale of "riceboxes"

Why not just do it like the car dealers are now handling titles and registrations?  Just go to your friendly YeaComWood dealer, select your rig, and they will file the paperwork for your license.  All for one small fee.  (Also, by the way, they could include an ARRL membership).

I guess we will see what happens when the smoke clears, but it seems that the "fast food /instant gratification" syndrome that has taken over our society has also taken over amateur radio licensing.  I know that CW is an ancient, inefficient form of communication, but minimal proficiency (5 WPM) seems like a small requirement for demonstration of a certain level of commitment and knowledge of the radio art.  Just because I care about the general level of demonstrated commitment required to earn a license, doesn't mean that I am anti-youth, or anti-new comer!!  To the contrary, it just means that I believe we are continually lowering the standards to the point that having a license won't be seen as any sort of accomplishment or any sort of indication of knowledge or competence.

Might as well just open it up to anybody who wants to run one of them thar amaturre raaadios.

This is an old old argument that has already divided us....so I guess it is just time to accept what seems to be destined to be...and try to enjoy the hobby for what it means to those of us who care about it....as long as it lasts, anyway.

73,  Jack, W9GT

[k4kyv]

Any newbies who try to accomplish something worthwhile via ham radio have my support.  Maybe some will even take an interest in AM and eventually get a REAL AM station on the air.  If someone has a real interest in ham radio, there is nothing s/he can do about how the FCC decides to license.  There is no FCC examination station on a freezing mountaintop where the candidate can voluntarily wade through two feet of snow uphill both ways to take a 13/20 wpm code test and draw schematics and block diagrams on the written test.

I just hope our bands don't get overrun with a bunch of dildos who take the dead-end route of going out and buying a brand-new ricebox, stringing up a factory-built dipole, and quacking away on slopbucket. 

Maybe all the zoning, deed and XYL restrictions that so many hams complain about keeping them from putting up an antenna will limit such an influx.  If they were too lazy to learn 5 wpm, how likely will they be willing to deal with 160/80m antennas once they know it involves more than tossing a bit of wire out the window and tying the far end to a tree?

I say there will be an initial surge, but after that, new arrivals will drop back to a trickle.  In a few months watch for the riceboxes that will begin to appear on e-Pay once the dead end crowd realises that appliance operating is bor-ing.

[The Slab Bacon]

Ya know this has always been a big pissing match since the "onslaught" of the codeless tecnicians years ago!

I also believe that code proficiency is NO indication of ones ability to be a good operator. Historically some of the WORST jammers and lowlife have been 20wpm extras. Like everyone else I also feel that the code was a "right of passage" and part of "paying your dues". However it has also kept many out that would have been a great addition to our ranks. It is a double edged sword no matter how you look at it. However it is not worth all of the pissing and bitching among ourselves about it.

Its done and we cant change it. Now lets stop crying about it and move on. I guarentee that it is not gonna be all that bad. Take your spanking and move forward. You just never know it might actually add sone to our ranks (the AMers) as well. Lets just wait and see before we start swinging. Whats done is now done.

                                                      the Slab Bacon

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Pete,(CWA)
You and I have been "down this road" many times before,--my observations
are,--the ARRL wants to get the ###`s up, and thus the $$$ up.

The FCC wants to "streamline"  ham radio, to make as little work as
possible for itself,-- maybe even go to a generic license in the future.

And we still have many who believe this WILL be GOOD for the future
of HR.--Sorry,--I am not one of them.
                                     
                                     73, K1MVP,

p.s,.--the way I see it, is this will be a "boom" for the sale of "riceboxes"

Actually, if you go back through the archives, the ARRL was not convinced that total removal of the code test for amateur licensing was a good thing. They proposed a new “Novice” or “Beginner’s” type license, which required a code test, and I believe they advocated keeping the code requirement for Extra Class. The FCC shot these requests down and all the complaints (in comments to the proposal) about removal of the code requirement were also cast aside. So, if one wants to “bitch” about the loss of the code requirement, the finger should be pointed to the FCC and their reasons for its removal.

As far as the $$$$$$$, it would be irresponsible for the ARRL at this time, from a business perspective, not to be getting on the bandwagon to churn up new revenue from the new and upcoming gallery of prospective amateurs. If this change perks up domestic amateur radio sales, this is a good thing for the manufacturers. Most likely they would then be more inclined to invest more R & D dollars and provide even more state-of-the-art equipment at a faster pace. Amateur radio has been somewhat stagnant for a number of years. For many believers, this is a shot in the arm that the hobby needs. Technology is moving forward at a very fast rate. Amateur radio needs to pick up the pace or it will be lost in the technology dust in a few years.

And, remember this, taking a driving test doesn’t make one of good driver.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

K3MSB typed:

Unmotivated hams will soon find their options and enjoyment limited.   They’ll fall by the wayside…. and then the true believers shall inherit the bands…….

Nailed it! It's not what you did to get your license, but what you do after you get the license. The unmotivated will become bored quickly and fade away.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I doubt any of the Yaewoodcom corporations invest any R&D for amateur radio products.   I haven't looked at any of their financial statements,  but I suspect 100% of the technology in their amateur radio products is productization of existing technology with some minor tweaks for hams. 

Seems true from what I see. All this DSP stuff that's being touted in the newer radios is a good 10-15 years behind the state of the art.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I doubt any of the Yaewoodcom corporations invest any R&D for amateur radio products.   I haven't looked at any of their financial statements,  but I suspect 100% of the technology in their amateur radio products is productization of existing technology with some minor tweaks for hams. 

Seems true from what I see. All this DSP stuff that's being touted in the newer radios is a good 10-15 years behind the state of the art.

Probably not a lot of incentive to invest in a product line when the market is flat or declining. I would suspect, as Mark noted, that the majority of the R&D is geared to rolling existing commercial or government targeted designs and products down to the ham market to capture certain price points.

I seem to remember reading a blurb somewhere about Icom financials for 2005 where it was noted that the Amateur radio division R&D budget was around 20%. It was being compared to Yaesu’s ham R&D budget which was about 15% and Kenwood’s, at that time, was almost non-existent. Have no idea how accurate the information was at that time. Maybe someone has more accurate numbers.

[WA1GFZ]

Steve how long will it be before we can afford the hardware to be state of the art.
I see the HPSDR guys trying to make a 130 mhz A/D work for them.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

We will never be able to afford the state of the art technologies. The bleeding edge is always expensive and amateur radio has always been well behind it. Just the way it is.

[WD8BIL]

And, remember this, taking a driving test doesn’t make one of good driver.

Requiring CW for a Ham license is like requiring me to learn to use a buggy whip to get a drivers license.

IMHO cw is just another mode. If you ain't testing for any other mode why do it for cw.
I agree with the statement about desire being demonstrated in learning that necessary to pass the written test. The one change in the process would be to get the "practice tests" off the web and make the candidate actually learn something.

Remember..... Richy, Wally,The Macaroni Net and Glenn Baxter all passed the code test.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Remember..... Richy, Wally,The Macaroni Net and Glenn Baxter all passed the code test.

Maybe. With all the P&Ming about how the lack of a CW test will ruin amateur radio, the real problem has been with us for years. It's called the VEC. My guess is guys like Wally, Richard and hundreds of others much like them got their licenses with a wink and a nod from one of their VEC buddies. The FCC has already made many retake the test due to VEC irregularities.

[W1UJR]

Remember..... Richy, Wally,The Macaroni Net and Glenn Baxter all passed the code test.

Maybe. With all the P&Ming about how the lack of a CW test will ruin amateur radio, the real problem has been with us for years. It's called the VEC. My guess is guys like Wally, Richard and hundreds of others much like them got their licenses with a wink and a nod from one of their VEC buddies. The FCC has already made many retake the test due to VEC irregularities.

Steve, its not the VEC, at least not in most cases, though W5YI did have some problems.
If anything, we, as other hams of a service which claims to be "self-policing", do bear some of the blame.

The crux of the problem is that the tests are too darn easy, the answers published on the internet, no  independent thought or real understanding needed to pass, candidates sit in front of a computer and take the same tests over and over again until they memorize all the answers.

CW was NOT a perfect lid filter, I agree. But you have to admit that it was hard to cheat or memorize the answers on the CW exam, you just had to understand and do independent thought. I'd be happy to replace the CW part of the exam with something equally structured, say draw a schematic of a amplifier, antenna tuner, etc.
That would be one level of filtering we don't have with the elimination of CW.

Of course, as many pointed out, one can be the most knowledge ham, and still be an ass on the air.
Unfortunately common sense and courtesy is not an exam element.

Strick enforcement on the part of the FCC would do a good deal to help clean up the bands, and drawing a "bright line" by speedy and responsive enforcement.

In summary, Frank's right, we are beating a dead horse, its done, fait accompli.
I can only take comfort in words I posted on another thread sometime back...

"Group 2 - "No Code" folks – are a bit different, they want the prize without the work. The good news is that they often don't stay in the hobby, they have a big splurge, as GFZ pointed out - buy lots of expensive ricebox radios, and then in a few years slowly fade away into the sunset. After all, they are simply “communicators”, and when another method of communication comes along, one that is simpler, cheaper, they move.

...those who think they should be handed something for nothing, the instant gratification crowd. They never give back to the hobby, they simply take, like a freeloader.

I don't want the freeloaders in our beloved hobby, but I rest easier at night now that I understand that if they do darken the door, they are not going to be here for long.

And in the worse case, I can follow the immortal words of our friend K4KYV and just “Turn up the wick.”! (or in this case move down the band and break out the hand key)"


73,
1UJR

[WD8BIL]

From discussions here, there and on the air I've concluded the most prevalent , albeit unspoken, argument for keeping the code requirement is:

"I had to learn it so they should have to."

And many with this attitude don't know the diff between PWM and PMS !

[The Slab Bacon]

From discussions here, there and on the air I've concluded the most prevalent , albeit unspoken, argument for keeping the code requirement is:

"I had to learn it so they should have to."

And many with this attitude don't know the diff between PWM and PMS !

 Buddly,
            that says it all in a few short words!!
                                                                 The Slab Bacon