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Title: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on January 24, 2007, 01:42:14 PM FCC's Report and Order (R&O) in the "Morse code proceeding," WT Docket 05-235, is scheduled to appear in the Federal Register Wednesday, January 24. Assuming that occurs, the new Part 97 rules deleting any Morse code examination requirement for Amateur Radio license applicants would go into effect Friday, February 23, 2007.
It has appeared: http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20071800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2007/E7-729.htm Don't need this any more: (http://www.eham.net/data/classifieds/images/205642.jpg) Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: k4kyv on January 24, 2007, 05:37:36 PM Haven't we essentially been codeless since 1999, or was it 2000? 2001?
Time flies, and it's amazing how quickly we lose track. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: W1UJR on January 24, 2007, 10:46:08 PM don't you mean code-less and CLUELESS?
After all, we still have published question and answers pools for each exam element. I'd at least think that they would require we stiffen the technical requirements if we drop Element 1. Heck, what's next, print and mail in your license? I sure wish they offer a "Conditional" code-less license for say, a period not to exceed 12 months, after which HF privileges are lost if the CW element is not passed. But no...yet another example of 2+2=whatever you feel it should equal. After all, we don't want anyone feeling bad about themselves... Pete, you can send those records my way, they'll play great on my old Victrola! 73 fellas - Bruce W1UJR Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on January 25, 2007, 04:02:13 AM don't you mean code-less and CLUELESS? After all, we still have published question and answers pools for each exam element. I'd at least think that they would require we stiffen the technical requirements if we drop Element 1. Heck, what's next, print and mail in your license? I sure wish they offer a "Conditional" code-less license for say, a period not to exceed 12 months, after which HF privileges are lost if the CW element is not passed. But no...yet another example of 2+2=whatever you feel it should equal. After all, we don't want anyone feeling bad about themselves... Pete, you can send those records my way, they'll play great on my old Victrola! 73 fellas - Bruce W1UJR What does code-less have anything to do with clueless? Going forward, new or seasoned amateurs who want to operate CW "the old way" can learn it on their own. Passing a code test doesn’t measure intelligence. We have tons of seasoned amateurs today who seem to be clueless in many aspects of amateur radio technology and they passed a code test. Amateur Radio is evolving; but “code” will still be there if you want to use it. And, I doubt, stiffening technical testing requirements, would lower the “clueless” numbers. Some are born clueless and others work hard to get there. I had some old code course records that came with a batch of manuals I picked up at Dayton years ago. They’re long gone now. We did sailing practice with them. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: K1MVP on January 25, 2007, 08:20:33 AM Haven't we essentially been codeless since 1999, or was it 2000? 2001? Time flies, and it's amazing how quickly we lose track. IF what you say is "true" Don,--why is it a local club here is being "swamped" with the "new general" applications, from NCT`s ? Apparently the 5wpm must have been a "barrier" to many. 73, K1MVP Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: W1UJR on January 25, 2007, 08:27:34 AM After all, we still have published question and answers pools for each exam element. I'd at least think that they would require we stiffen the technical requirements if we drop Element 1. Heck, what's next, print and mail in your license? I sure wish they offer a "Conditional" code-less license for say, a period not to exceed 12 months, after which HF privileges are lost if the CW element is not passed. But no...yet another example of 2+2=whatever you feel it should equal. After all, we don't want anyone feeling bad about themselves... Pete, you can send those records my way, they'll play great on my old Victrola! 73 fellas - Bruce W1UJR What does code-less have anything to do with clueless? Going forward, new or seasoned amateurs who want to operate CW "the old way" can learn it on their own. Passing a code test doesn’t measure intelligence. We have tons of seasoned amateurs today who seem to be clueless in many aspects of amateur radio technology and they passed a code test. Amateur Radio is evolving; but “code” will still be there if you want to use it. And, I doubt, stiffening technical testing requirements, would lower the “clueless” numbers. Some are born clueless and others work hard to get there. I had some old code course records that came with a batch of manuals I picked up at Dayton years ago. They’re long gone now. We did sailing practice with them. Quote Yes Pete, you're correct, standards don't matter. Heck, let's take your argument to its logical conclusion and just eliminate the written test altogether! Isn't that the logical extension of what you state? ;D Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: KF1Z on January 25, 2007, 09:08:50 AM IF what you say is "true" Don,--why is it a local club here is being "swamped" with the "new general" applications, from NCT`s ? Apparently the 5wpm must have been a "barrier" to many. 73, K1MVP Seems like a waste of time to file any applications now.... The can't be processed until Feb. 25th..... Even if they just go take, and pass the test, they'll have to take their paperwork back at the end of Feb..... Lot's of people SAY the 5 wpm test is a barrier... but only because they don't care enough about getting the General or Extra ticket to try... It was easier to whine about it until the rules got changed than it was to put a little effort into learning it.... IMO Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: w3jn on January 25, 2007, 09:34:31 AM What does code-less have anything to do with clueless? Going forward, new or seasoned amateurs who want to operate CW "the old way" can learn it on their own. Passing a code test doesn’t measure intelligence. We have tons of seasoned amateurs today who seem to be clueless in many aspects of amateur radio technology and they passed a code test. Amateur Radio is evolving; but “code” will still be there if you want to use it. And, I doubt, stiffening technical testing requirements, would lower the “clueless” numbers. Some are born clueless and others work hard to get there. Indeed. See my sig line. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: W1UJR on January 25, 2007, 09:41:05 AM Bruce -- You NEED this : http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-WWII-MILITARY-DECODER-RECEIVER-MORSE-KEYER-TG-10F_W0QQitemZ170071727754QQihZ007QQcategoryZ585QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem 73 Mark K3MSB I do like that piece, most buzzardly indeed! And the cool thing is that it looks like you can key the transmitter from the unit as well! Looks like it uses one a photocell and light source for the actual "reading" of the tape. Not sure of the size, but it even appears rack mountable! I love old apparatus (no there is a word we don't hear often enough), and I've always admired the CW gear made by T.R. McElroy from Boston. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: K1MVP on January 25, 2007, 10:42:33 AM Pete,(CWA)
You and I have been "down this road" many times before,--my observations are,--the ARRL wants to get the ###`s up, and thus the $$$ up. The FCC wants to "streamline" ham radio, to make as little work as possible for itself,-- maybe even go to a generic license in the future. And we still have many who believe this WILL be GOOD for the future of HR.--Sorry,--I am not one of them. 73, K1MVP, p.s,.--the way I see it, is this will be a "boom" for the sale of "riceboxes" Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WA1GFZ on January 25, 2007, 11:05:09 AM if only the arrl could sell you a license and membership all in one bill.
gee maybe the rice box could be included on the Hatry payment plan no that would be efficient. you could hire the arrl technical dept to install your antenna all you need to do is turn on and gab. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: W9GT on January 25, 2007, 11:26:52 AM if only the arrl could sell you a license and membership all in one bill. gee maybe the rice box could be included on the Hatry payment plan no that would be efficient. you could hire the arrl technical dept to install your antenna all you need to do is turn on and gab. Pete,(CWA) You and I have been "down this road" many times before,--my observations are,--the ARRL wants to get the ###`s up, and thus the $$$ up. The FCC wants to "streamline" ham radio, to make as little work as possible for itself,-- maybe even go to a generic license in the future. And we still have many who believe this WILL be GOOD for the future of HR.--Sorry,--I am not one of them. 73, K1MVP, p.s,.--the way I see it, is this will be a "boom" for the sale of "riceboxes" Why not just do it like the car dealers are now handling titles and registrations? Just go to your friendly YeaComWood dealer, select your rig, and they will file the paperwork for your license. All for one small fee. (Also, by the way, they could include an ARRL membership). I guess we will see what happens when the smoke clears, but it seems that the "fast food /instant gratification" syndrome that has taken over our society has also taken over amateur radio licensing. I know that CW is an ancient, inefficient form of communication, but minimal proficiency (5 WPM) seems like a small requirement for demonstration of a certain level of commitment and knowledge of the radio art. Just because I care about the general level of demonstrated commitment required to earn a license, doesn't mean that I am anti-youth, or anti-new comer!! To the contrary, it just means that I believe we are continually lowering the standards to the point that having a license won't be seen as any sort of accomplishment or any sort of indication of knowledge or competence. Might as well just open it up to anybody who wants to run one of them thar amaturre raaadios. This is an old old argument that has already divided us....so I guess it is just time to accept what seems to be destined to be...and try to enjoy the hobby for what it means to those of us who care about it....as long as it lasts, anyway. 73, Jack, W9GT Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: k4kyv on January 25, 2007, 01:23:45 PM Any newbies who try to accomplish something worthwhile via ham radio have my support. Maybe some will even take an interest in AM and eventually get a REAL AM station on the air. If someone has a real interest in ham radio, there is nothing s/he can do about how the FCC decides to license. There is no FCC examination station on a freezing mountaintop where the candidate can voluntarily wade through two feet of snow uphill both ways to take a 13/20 wpm code test and draw schematics and block diagrams on the written test.
I just hope our bands don't get overrun with a bunch of dildos who take the dead-end route of going out and buying a brand-new ricebox, stringing up a factory-built dipole, and quacking away on slopbucket. Maybe all the zoning, deed and XYL restrictions that so many hams complain about keeping them from putting up an antenna will limit such an influx. If they were too lazy to learn 5 wpm, how likely will they be willing to deal with 160/80m antennas once they know it involves more than tossing a bit of wire out the window and tying the far end to a tree? I say there will be an initial surge, but after that, new arrivals will drop back to a trickle. In a few months watch for the riceboxes that will begin to appear on e-Pay once the dead end crowd realises that appliance operating is bor-ing. Title: Always a big pissing match!! Post by: The Slab Bacon on January 25, 2007, 01:36:09 PM Ya know this has always been a big pissing match since the "onslaught" of the codeless tecnicians years ago!
I also believe that code proficiency is NO indication of ones ability to be a good operator. Historically some of the WORST jammers and lowlife have been 20wpm extras. Like everyone else I also feel that the code was a "right of passage" and part of "paying your dues". However it has also kept many out that would have been a great addition to our ranks. It is a double edged sword no matter how you look at it. However it is not worth all of the pissing and bitching among ourselves about it. Its done and we cant change it. Now lets stop crying about it and move on. I guarentee that it is not gonna be all that bad. Take your spanking and move forward. You just never know it might actually add sone to our ranks (the AMers) as well. Lets just wait and see before we start swinging. Whats done is now done. the Slab Bacon Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on January 25, 2007, 02:12:21 PM Pete,(CWA) You and I have been "down this road" many times before,--my observations are,--the ARRL wants to get the ###`s up, and thus the $$$ up. The FCC wants to "streamline" ham radio, to make as little work as possible for itself,-- maybe even go to a generic license in the future. And we still have many who believe this WILL be GOOD for the future of HR.--Sorry,--I am not one of them. 73, K1MVP, p.s,.--the way I see it, is this will be a "boom" for the sale of "riceboxes" Actually, if you go back through the archives, the ARRL was not convinced that total removal of the code test for amateur licensing was a good thing. They proposed a new “Novice” or “Beginner’s” type license, which required a code test, and I believe they advocated keeping the code requirement for Extra Class. The FCC shot these requests down and all the complaints (in comments to the proposal) about removal of the code requirement were also cast aside. So, if one wants to “bitch” about the loss of the code requirement, the finger should be pointed to the FCC and their reasons for its removal. As far as the $$$$$$$, it would be irresponsible for the ARRL at this time, from a business perspective, not to be getting on the bandwagon to churn up new revenue from the new and upcoming gallery of prospective amateurs. If this change perks up domestic amateur radio sales, this is a good thing for the manufacturers. Most likely they would then be more inclined to invest more R & D dollars and provide even more state-of-the-art equipment at a faster pace. Amateur radio has been somewhat stagnant for a number of years. For many believers, this is a shot in the arm that the hobby needs. Technology is moving forward at a very fast rate. Amateur radio needs to pick up the pace or it will be lost in the technology dust in a few years. And, remember this, taking a driving test doesn’t make one of good driver. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on January 25, 2007, 02:32:07 PM K3MSB typed:
Quote Unmotivated hams will soon find their options and enjoyment limited. They’ll fall by the wayside…. and then the true believers shall inherit the bands……. Nailed it! It's not what you did to get your license, but what you do after you get the license. The unmotivated will become bored quickly and fade away. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on January 25, 2007, 02:34:02 PM Quote I doubt any of the Yaewoodcom corporations invest any R&D for amateur radio products. I haven't looked at any of their financial statements, but I suspect 100% of the technology in their amateur radio products is productization of existing technology with some minor tweaks for hams. Seems true from what I see. All this DSP stuff that's being touted in the newer radios is a good 10-15 years behind the state of the art. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on January 25, 2007, 03:30:13 PM Quote I doubt any of the Yaewoodcom corporations invest any R&D for amateur radio products. I haven't looked at any of their financial statements, but I suspect 100% of the technology in their amateur radio products is productization of existing technology with some minor tweaks for hams. Seems true from what I see. All this DSP stuff that's being touted in the newer radios is a good 10-15 years behind the state of the art. Probably not a lot of incentive to invest in a product line when the market is flat or declining. I would suspect, as Mark noted, that the majority of the R&D is geared to rolling existing commercial or government targeted designs and products down to the ham market to capture certain price points. I seem to remember reading a blurb somewhere about Icom financials for 2005 where it was noted that the Amateur radio division R&D budget was around 20%. It was being compared to Yaesu’s ham R&D budget which was about 15% and Kenwood’s, at that time, was almost non-existent. Have no idea how accurate the information was at that time. Maybe someone has more accurate numbers. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WA1GFZ on January 25, 2007, 03:31:07 PM Steve how long will it be before we can afford the hardware to be state of the art.
I see the HPSDR guys trying to make a 130 mhz A/D work for them. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on January 25, 2007, 08:21:16 PM We will never be able to afford the state of the art technologies. The bleeding edge is always expensive and amateur radio has always been well behind it. Just the way it is.
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WD8BIL on January 26, 2007, 07:40:00 AM Quote And, remember this, taking a driving test doesn’t make one of good driver. Requiring CW for a Ham license is like requiring me to learn to use a buggy whip to get a drivers license. IMHO cw is just another mode. If you ain't testing for any other mode why do it for cw. I agree with the statement about desire being demonstrated in learning that necessary to pass the written test. The one change in the process would be to get the "practice tests" off the web and make the candidate actually learn something. Remember..... Richy, Wally,The Macaroni Net and Glenn Baxter all passed the code test. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on January 26, 2007, 08:20:54 AM Quote Remember..... Richy, Wally,The Macaroni Net and Glenn Baxter all passed the code test. Maybe. With all the P&Ming about how the lack of a CW test will ruin amateur radio, the real problem has been with us for years. It's called the VEC. My guess is guys like Wally, Richard and hundreds of others much like them got their licenses with a wink and a nod from one of their VEC buddies. The FCC has already made many retake the test due to VEC irregularities. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: W1UJR on January 26, 2007, 08:50:47 AM Quote Remember..... Richy, Wally,The Macaroni Net and Glenn Baxter all passed the code test. Maybe. With all the P&Ming about how the lack of a CW test will ruin amateur radio, the real problem has been with us for years. It's called the VEC. My guess is guys like Wally, Richard and hundreds of others much like them got their licenses with a wink and a nod from one of their VEC buddies. The FCC has already made many retake the test due to VEC irregularities. Steve, its not the VEC, at least not in most cases, though W5YI did have some problems. If anything, we, as other hams of a service which claims to be "self-policing", do bear some of the blame. The crux of the problem is that the tests are too darn easy, the answers published on the internet, no independent thought or real understanding needed to pass, candidates sit in front of a computer and take the same tests over and over again until they memorize all the answers. CW was NOT a perfect lid filter, I agree. But you have to admit that it was hard to cheat or memorize the answers on the CW exam, you just had to understand and do independent thought. I'd be happy to replace the CW part of the exam with something equally structured, say draw a schematic of a amplifier, antenna tuner, etc. That would be one level of filtering we don't have with the elimination of CW. Of course, as many pointed out, one can be the most knowledge ham, and still be an ass on the air. Unfortunately common sense and courtesy is not an exam element. Strick enforcement on the part of the FCC would do a good deal to help clean up the bands, and drawing a "bright line" by speedy and responsive enforcement. In summary, Frank's right, we are beating a dead horse, its done, fait accompli. I can only take comfort in words I posted on another thread sometime back... "Group 2 - "No Code" folks – are a bit different, they want the prize without the work. The good news is that they often don't stay in the hobby, they have a big splurge, as GFZ pointed out - buy lots of expensive ricebox radios, and then in a few years slowly fade away into the sunset. After all, they are simply “communicators”, and when another method of communication comes along, one that is simpler, cheaper, they move. ...those who think they should be handed something for nothing, the instant gratification crowd. They never give back to the hobby, they simply take, like a freeloader. I don't want the freeloaders in our beloved hobby, but I rest easier at night now that I understand that if they do darken the door, they are not going to be here for long. And in the worse case, I can follow the immortal words of our friend K4KYV and just “Turn up the wick.”! (or in this case move down the band and break out the hand key)" 73, 1UJR Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WD8BIL on January 26, 2007, 09:02:44 AM From discussions here, there and on the air I've concluded the most prevalent , albeit unspoken, argument for keeping the code requirement is:
"I had to learn it so they should have to." And many with this attitude don't know the diff between PWM and PMS ! Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: The Slab Bacon on January 26, 2007, 09:09:30 AM From discussions here, there and on the air I've concluded the most prevalent , albeit unspoken, argument for keeping the code requirement is: "I had to learn it so they should have to." And many with this attitude don't know the diff between PWM and PMS ! Buddly, that says it all in a few short words!! The Slab Bacon Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: W3SLK on January 26, 2007, 09:13:24 AM Steve said:
Quote We will never be able to afford the state of the art technologies. The bleeding edge is always expensive and amateur radio has always been well behind it. Just the way it is. Its a shame. History demonstrated that the amatuers were the leading edge in radio's hay-day. We as a society (hams in general) became complacent and let the someone else dictate our future. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: K1MVP on January 26, 2007, 11:34:28 AM Lots of good comments,--on this both "pro and con", and only time will tell,
IMO. I agree with mosltly with Bruce,--W1UJR. Do not believe cw HAD to be "retained", BUT, they could have at least required a "beef-up" of the written exams, like they did in Great Britain . In the interim,--I also agree with "Slab Bacon",--its IS a "done deal" and onward we go, good or bad. Frankly,I am tired of discussing this issue,--I spoke out,(both on forums and with FCC) for all the good it did.(which is questionable) "P and moaning" at this point, is useless.--I agree. 73, K1MVP p.s, time to "break out the wick"--CW here I come, along with finishing up homebrew projects. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: K3ZS on January 26, 2007, 11:39:21 AM I just wish that the FCC would have just renamed the license class when they lowered it to 5 WPM. They could have just eliminated the old Extra class for new licensees as they did with the Advanced. At least those that had got the Extra when it was harder wouldn't have been cheated out of their accomplishment and pride. Although its a done deal, I thank the FCC for making 80 meters useful again to those of us not owning a frequency on the band.
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: wa1knx on January 26, 2007, 03:30:42 PM nocoders can always learn the code if they feel uncomfortable with us
aledged "real" hams, but a better reason would be to enjoy a pleasurable facet of the hobby. i'ts 30 years since i got my extra, not really a cw guy but do have several cw contacts a year. i find it the most relaxing thing i do in the hobby, and remember the days of fun fun fun i had as a novice, and still do now. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: KB2WIG on January 26, 2007, 03:37:19 PM The FIA can be used against the momorization of answers. Suppose there is a question dealing with a class a audio amp. Give the diagram, voltage divider bias, swamped emitter, load resistance on the collector. One could generate a range of Vcc, and resistor values for the components. ?? What is the bias voltage on the Base?? given a range of 0 volts to 600 volts generates 600 question answers to memorize for this one problem... Input Z? emitter current? ( plate resistance? well I can dream , cant' I)?? A few technical problems, Like OHMs law..... using the same format... memorize the color code and give them a resistor. KLC...
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Joe Long on January 26, 2007, 04:03:54 PM Whats an emitter?
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on January 26, 2007, 04:35:30 PM Quote History demonstrated that the amatuers were the leading edge in radio's hay-day. May be true, depending on what time period you consider the hey day. I think amateur radio pretty much always been behind the state of the art, but most certainly since WWII. The combination of the huge leap in technology because of the war effort and the period of no amateur activity during the war, put amateur radio behind the curve. It has never caught up. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: k4kyv on January 26, 2007, 05:40:53 PM That was true even in the "old days." Crystal control was first developed about 1926 if I recall correctly. But hams didn't start using it to any great extent until well into the 30's. Same with class-B audio amplification to plate modulate a transmitter. Class B audio was first described in the late 20's, but the first amateur Class B modulation article appeared in about 1933.
Amateurs may have had a hand in the initial development of the single-signal superhet, the standard radio for many years with 1 or 2 rf stages, mixer with or without separate oscillator tube, followed by a couple of 455 kc/s i.f. stages, with diode detector and a couple of audio stages. There are some articles in early 30's QST describing the prototype built at ARRL labs. I knew personally the technician who actually put that first set together and wired it. He later worked in Louisville and lived in southern Indiana. His name was Bob Parmentier, and his call was W9WT (now SK). It wasn't long after the QST articles before National released the HRO, which was originally designed for aircraft communication service, but National saw an additional market in the amateur radio community, so they manufactured the special coil sets with bandspread capability on the 80, 40, 20 and 10m bands and began marketing the HRO as a top-of-the-line reciever to hams who could afford it, at over $200 in the middle of the Great Depression. Other receivers soon followed both for commercial and amateur use. This may have also been a factor in the universal acceptance of 455 kc/s as the i.f. Superhets built prior to about 1934 had if's ranging anywhere from 175 kc/s to well above 455 kc/s. Amateur slopbucket was anything but cutting edge technology. The principles of SSB were well known by about 1920, and it was used in the early 20's for transatlantic telephone links. There was some mention of SSB in QST in the mid 30's, and supposedly sometime about 1935 about a half dozen hams were using it on the air. It took till the late 50's for it to become widely available to hams. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 01, 2007, 02:03:27 PM ARRL's, Dave Sumner, steps up and makes his pitch about the current FCC's "code testing going away" ruling:
http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/features/2007/02/01/1/?nc=1 Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: wa1knx on February 01, 2007, 05:26:03 PM just noticed the datetime clock is messed up, i read feb 23, my clock says
feb 1 (?) Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 01, 2007, 05:46:16 PM just noticed the datetime clock is messed up, i read feb 23, my clock says feb 1 (?) If you're talking about the date in the title, that's when "no code testing" and some other FCC changes becomes effective. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: W1RC on February 01, 2007, 05:50:58 PM There are a lot of comments regarding this subject but we must understand the following if we are going to accept the eventuality of the "code-free" licencing. Answer the following questions: Total number of amateur radio licences is: increasing decreasing. Average age of the radio amateur radio licensee is: increasing decreasing. Value of the radio spectrum especially for VHF/UHF frequencies is: increasing decreasing. Number of young people (under age 40) at hamfesters and flea markets is: increasing decreasing. Do the math. 73, W1RC Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: K5MO on February 01, 2007, 07:53:13 PM ARRL's, Dave Sumner, steps up and makes his pitch about the current FCC's "code testing going away" ruling: http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/features/2007/02/01/1/?nc=1 Sumner's not worth reading. He's more interested in his continued salary than HR . IMHO John K5MO Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 01, 2007, 08:03:14 PM ARRL's, Dave Sumner, steps up and makes his pitch about the current FCC's "code testing going away" ruling: http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/features/2007/02/01/1/?nc=1 Sumner's not worth reading. He's more interested in his continued salary than HR . IMHO John K5MO I would wonder about his sanity if he didn't; Unless one likes to work 40 hours a week and not get paid. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: W9AD on February 03, 2007, 01:28:16 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq9UsrmkxTY&eurl
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: N3DRB The Derb on February 04, 2007, 02:24:02 PM In favor of code free licensing since 1982. Nice to see it, and I say, as I always have: F morse mode. It did nothing except give old buzzards a false sense of superiority.
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: ab4en on February 05, 2007, 07:29:29 AM So after we load up the bands with no-coders just in favor of numbers won't it be interesting to hear these no talent bums try to decipher an sos in morse code on one of the ham bands?!!
So what will we dispense with next to attract more into the ham faternity? Perhaps the FCC will make the AM mode illegal so the potential no coder won't be annoyed by the heterodynes? Perhaps we can eliminate all theory because certainly no one in this modern era will want to homebrew much less troubleshoot their rice boxes. Better yet - homebrewing should be illegal too. You'll have to have a license to troubleshoot those rice boxes now. More regulations to regulate the unregulated mass of cess pool that the FCC has created with no code. Hey it all makes sense to me. ::) Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: w3jn on February 05, 2007, 09:09:45 AM Wow. I'm speechless.
I'm interested in the source of your data that no-coders are "no-talent bums". I'm also interested in how you determined that no-coders are necessarily clueless about homebrewing and troubleshooting. As you might be aware, this issue dates back to the 1930's and isn't at all limited to no-coders. What does CW ability have to do with technical ability? Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on February 05, 2007, 11:12:36 AM Also, please state the number of times an SOS was ever sent in Morse code on the ham bands.
Can you say RED HERRING? Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 05, 2007, 12:06:07 PM So after we load up the bands with no-coders just in favor of numbers won't it be interesting to hear these no talent bums try to decipher an sos in morse code on one of the ham bands?!! So what will we dispense with next to attract more into the ham faternity? Perhaps the FCC will make the AM mode illegal so the potential no coder won't be annoyed by the heterodynes? This could easily be applied another classes of amateurs who, although they sometimes profess themselves to be “top experienced dogs”, are sometimes totally clueless to operating procedures and any technical sense. Quote Perhaps we can eliminate all theory because certainly no one in this modern era will want to homebrew much less troubleshoot their rice boxes. Better yet - homebrewing should be illegal too. You'll have to have a license to troubleshoot those rice boxes now. More regulations to regulate the unregulated mass of cess pool that the FCC has created with no code. Hey it all makes sense to me. ::) Absolutely. All theory should be replaced by questions related to operating procedures, regulations, systems engineering, and a touch of basic software knowledge. Ya got to get with the program; amateur radio is changing; the ARRL said so. http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2006/11/01/1/ (http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2006/11/01/1/) And, a great quote to remember if you feel bummed out on amateur radio: Amateur Radio. A proud past. An exciting present. A bright future! Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: k4kyv on February 05, 2007, 04:49:51 PM Perhaps the FCC will make the AM mode illegal so the potential no coder won't be annoyed by the heterodynes? I'd say that would be a distinct possibility IF the no-code ticket + present-day written exam results in hoards of newcomers to the point that the phone bands become congested again. The anti-AM crowd will start up the standard P&M about all the "bandwidth" AM uses and the heterodynes from the carrier, so someone will propose to outlaw AM to allow more appliance operators on the band. But I doubt there will be anything near the tidal wave of newcomers that some people are hoping for. Quote Perhaps we can eliminate all theory because certainly no one in this modern era will want to homebrew much less troubleshoot their rice boxes. Better yet - homebrewing should be illegal too. In Canada, and I believe in UK also, they have an entry-level licence that requires the use of unmodified commercially built equipment. But in UK, when they went no-code, they changed the written test to make it more challenging. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on February 05, 2007, 09:01:01 PM Can we make P&Ming illegal?
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: k4kyv on February 06, 2007, 09:58:12 AM But wouldn't that outlaw the Piss 'n Moan Net?
Besides, the old farts on slopbucket wouldn't have anything left to talk about except their ailments. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: W9GT on February 06, 2007, 11:28:43 AM As I posted earlier, the Amateur Industry (with apologies to Pete) holds far too much sway over amateur radio rulemaking proceedings. It wasn't a good thing way back when, or presently, and it probably will cause the Amateur Radio Service even more harm down the road. All of these differently-qualified Technician, General, and Amateur Extra class have given rise to factions, bickering factions that generally don't get along well. Divided we fall. I agree that the Morse tests are/were irrelevant, however, they were a good filter to allow genuinely motivated people into the hobby. And I don't mean to imply all no-code/slow-code people are unmotivated, or not an asset to ham radio. And I also do not wish to imply that passing a 13 or 20 wpm code test solves all the societal ills of the Amateur Radio Service. We are all aware of exceptionally well qualified licensees who cause a lot of grief for ham radio. Eventually they make their way onto Mr. Hollinsworth's radar screen. The problem with amateur testing over the past 25-30 years is the ongoing relaxation of test requirements, not limited to Morse Code. As CW testing has been gutted, and is now soon to be phased out, I see nothing coming along with the written test in terms of bringing it up to date, either from a technical perspective or an operating point of view. I disagree with those who say we need more numbers of amateurs (with apologies to Mr. Mike). More people to communicate with is a good thing, but I'll take quality over quantity any day. I also disagree with those who say the technical stuff is irrelevant, and should be replaced with questions about safety, rules and regulations, and operating procedures (Sorry again Pete). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think ham radio is for everyone. We might not always be so blessed to live in the days of wine and roses. A pool of proficient, technically well versed operators is a good thing to have around if things get *REALLY* bad. There is nothing wrong with spending 'time in grade'. I was a Tech Plus, pre-2000, one who ran exclusively CW on 80, 40, and 15 meters. So maybe I would only have been able to pass the 13 wpm code test a couple of years ago to earn a General Class ticket. SO WHAT? Better to have passed the same CW test as everyone else, NO FACTIONS CREATED! As it is the FCC and it's minions, by catering to instant gratification and feelings of entitlement, is creating more disagreeable factions with this latest wave of rulemaking re: amateur testing. I have no problem with memorization and can probably pass the Amateur Extra written exam without a whole lot of trouble. And being permitted to operated AM from 3600 to 3800 is like a big, red, shiny apple in the window. But I'm afraid this could turn out to be one more Pyrrhic victory. Very well stated indeed!! CW, whether you are an opponent or proponent, is not really the issue. Regardless of when you earned your license, you should probably be at least concerned, if not down right offended, by the "cheapening of the effort" through the continual reduction of the requirements. Growth is important, but quality growth should be the rule..... Not just an increase in numbers to achieve some imagined advantage or greater leverage. 73, Jack, W9GT Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 06, 2007, 01:25:50 PM I disagree with those who say we need more numbers of amateurs (with apologies to Mr. Mike). More people to communicate with is a good thing, but I'll take quality over quantity any day. I also disagree with those who say the technical stuff is irrelevant, and should be replaced with questions about safety, rules and regulations, and operating procedures (Sorry again Pete). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think ham radio is for everyone. We might not always be so blessed to live in the days of wine and roses. A pool of proficient, technically well versed operators is a good thing to have around if things get *REALLY* bad. 73 Doug, KA3TGV One could apply some of the same logic to obtaining a driver’s license. Can’t join the driving fraternity until you demonstrate proficiency in technical and mechanical knowledge in the operation and maintenance of an automobile in your written driving test. However, I will agree that’s it’s helpful to acquire some basic knowledge to be able to discuss or explain a problem with a qualified technician/mechanic to resolve your car issues when there is a problem. Amateur radio is a communicating arena. Some people get into it just to “communicate” (i.e. you get a driver’s license just to drive a car). They don’t need to be tested as to their technical knowledge as to what’s happening under the chassis or between those tiny speck parts on a circuit board or how many joules does this part generate when you wave it in an electrical field. Some like the technical, or getting their hands dirty in the circuitry, of all aspects of radio; others could care less about how their voice gets through the box and out the antenna. Doesn’t make them any more or any less of an amateur radio operator. We in the amateur radio community can say “quality is better than quantity” but we’re not important here. We can all see that our numbers are declining as each year passes. As amateur radio has to evolve with the changing technologies and government mandates, “numbers” play an important part in our ability to provide visibility to the people (FCC, government officials, etc.) who ultimately control our future density. A declining arena has far less clout then one that is on the rise. As Jack said, “quality growth”, but it’s sometimes better to bit the bullet, drive the numbers up first, and then educate those masses. I’m all for driving up the numbers any way we can. There are probably a lot of talented, non-technical type people out there that would be a great asset to amateur radio. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on February 06, 2007, 01:30:58 PM What will happen? What won't happen? Who knows? I'm a whole lot more concerned at the lack of AM activity down below 3800. Everyone was sooooo excited about getting MORE SPACE TO SPREAD OUT, yet most nights only SSB signals are heard down there. I hear KK4AM, 'KYV, 'HUZ, 'JN, 'AD, 'VJB and very few others down there with any regularity. Bill and Ralph have a brief 'what's for dinner' gathering on 3733 but vacate at 6PM for a Canadian SSB net. I've already had one run-in with a group of SSB folks who have taken 3709 as their new net frequency, others are doing the same up and down the band.
Not sure who said it first on here, but our time might be better spent getting on the air and being heard instead of pissing and moaning on here about how bad amateur radio is these days. Regardless of whether you think dumping the code requirement was good or bad, you're inevitably preaching to the choir in this forum. Get on the air, stir up some activity, call CQ if you don't hear anyone. Kinda makes me think of the monthly CCA AM net, or the southern AMI net. All kinds of wonderful AM stations on the air, the majority of them not to be heard again until the next 'net'. Why is anyone worried about what's going to happen to the bands if they can be on the air, but aren't? Be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Get on the air, set a good example, draw more good folks to AM. I doubt the FCC will care how active we are on here if(when?) the day ever comes to consider bandwidth again. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WA1GFZ on February 06, 2007, 04:23:05 PM Once a ham operator was considered a talented person. Today the trend is to turn it into a free for all just to add to the masses. I think it is a mistake. We have plenty of idiots on the bands now.
These people would be better suited with a computer and a phone line. As a JN I looked up to buzzards with respect...tune across the bands now and see if you can find anyone to respect or better yet have your kids look up to. It isn't so much no code as it is no clue..... Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 06, 2007, 07:46:56 PM As a JN I looked up to buzzards with respect...tune across the bands now and see if you can find anyone to respect or better yet have your kids look up to. They only need to look across the dinner table Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on February 06, 2007, 08:45:52 PM Advances in technology only further the argument for a more qualified amateur radio population not less. If this means less amateurs, so be it. Amateur radio made some of its biggest impact when the numbers were less than 100,000. More numbers does not mean more clout or leverage. Never did, never will.
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 06, 2007, 08:58:38 PM Hi Pete, With all due respect, I don't find the analogy you are attempting to draw between a drivers license and an amateur radio license particularly valid. Here in PA, a driver's license is required to run a car on a public road. To perform the annual state mechanical safety inspection a state-issued inspection license IS required. Applicants study and take a test to get their State Inspection License. This is wholly apart and separate from a driver's license. I'm not sure what is required to do emissions testing, but PA is bureaucratic up the wazoo so I'm certain there is an additional layer of certification required. Here in the U. S., an amateur license is required to run an amateur radio station on FCC authorized band segments(the FCC authorized public road). Wasn't talking about annual state inspections, etc. I said, "Can’t join the driving fraternity until you demonstrate proficiency in technical and mechanical knowledge in the operation and maintenance of an automobile in your written driving test." I was referring to the maintenance of your own automobile ((i.e. back yard mechanic) Quote On the other hand, ALL FCC issued amateur licenses enable the licenseholder to do electronic testing, repair, modification, and construction of receivers, transmitters, transmitters, transceivers, antennas, antenna tuners, power supplies, test equipment & other ancilliary equipment. Although there is currently no 'final inspector' for the work we do on our own equipment, there is some expectation the work to be done is completed with electrical safety (NEC rules apply) and spectral purity (Part 97 rules apply) uppermost in one's mind, among other things. An amateur license doesn't enable you to do any of these things. There are thousands of qualified electronic service people who don't have amateur licenses. Quote If "amateur radio is a communicating arena", as you write above, then I agree, the current licensing system needs re-tooled. But I thought we had other services for this, such as cellular telephones, MURS, FRS, WI-FI, etc. Can you identify when the next world-wide FRS or cellular contest is going to be held? Then there are some people who just like to get on the air to talk to people in far-away places, make new friends, keep in contact with old ones, etc. There are many aspects of amateur radio that don't require vast technical knowledge. Quote I also disagree with your assertion we in the amateur community are not important in the eyes of the FCC and other government agencies as regards our licensing and rules & regulations. Ever hear of the ECFS? Some of the regulars on this board are to be congratulated for their comments in the 'Novice Refarming' docket, which resulted in the expansion of the 75 meter phone band. The system worked; the FCC can still do a good job when not a lot of $$$ are involved. Futhermore, many of the 'heavy hitters' on this board commented on the League's Regulation by Bandwidth petition. A countervailing petition, RM-11305, essentially triumphed, enough so it's originators withdrew the petition. Another example of the system working Pete. I still believe that "numbers" can play an important role along with lots of dialogue to groups that need to hear from the amateur radio community. As numbers decline, it becomes increasing difficult to capture someone's ear as the number of active participants in the hobby slowly fades away. However, opinions vary widely on whether increases or decreases in the amateur population will have any effect on the hobby's future. The expansion of the phone bands was blessed by the FCC almost two years before RM's 11305 and 11306 were introduced. What took so long was the "Report and Order". The "refarming" comments did tweak the FCC into allocating more voice space for the Extra Class license holder. You stated: "Futhermore, many of the 'heavy hitters' on this board commented on the League's Regulation by Bandwidth petition. A countervailing petition, RM-11305, essentially triumphed, enough so it's originators withdrew the petition." Many of us commented on both proposals and both proposals were beat hard into the ground. 11305's any mode, any bandwidth, anywhere, in my opinion, never got off the ground. The voice expansion was already blessed by the FCC two years prior. Quote I think the same thing can be done to straighten out this licensing mess. I'm waiting for the ARRL to propose something so all of us can oppose it! :) Sorry, I think for myself. If someone, or some group, sets forth a proposal that I believe has merit for the betterment of amateur radio, I will support it regardless of who proposes it. Following the crowd, because the crowd has similar interests to mine, is something I never adhere to. Quote I love amateur radio, and feel more strongly than ever it is good for people of all descriptions to get involved exactly as the Basis and Purpose of Part 97 states. Even if we don't have a manufacturing economy anymore, and technical knowledge is no longer required for a services/retail sales-based economy, there will always be a need for people who can do math without a calculator, or design an electronic circuit without a computer program, or cobble together a functioning communications circuit when the 'black boxes' go down. Yep, I still own two slide rules and I've never designed an electronic circuit with a computer. When the "black boxes" go down, it's time to spend quality time with the family or friends. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on February 07, 2007, 08:33:48 AM History shows this to be quite untrue.
Quote I still believe that "numbers" can play an important role along with lots of dialogue to groups that need to hear from the amateur radio community. As numbers decline, it becomes increasing difficult to capture someone's ear as the number of active participants in the hobby slowly fades away. However, opinions vary widely on whether increases or decreases in the amateur population will have any effect on the hobby's future. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WA1GFZ on February 07, 2007, 09:16:11 AM All I know is if you fill the ham bands with a bunch of idiots the hobby will suffer.
Example: Last Night a gang of slop buckets come on 2 KHz above the gray hair net and continue after they complain about it. The band has plenty of room so why do people have to do this. Answer you invite morons into the hobby you have to live with their lack of class. Just tune the 40 channels around 27 MHz. Do you want this to be ham radio? ARRL looks at it as a way to increase members paying them money. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: N3DRB The Derb on February 07, 2007, 11:02:12 AM hasnt that sort of thing been going on with wonderful 13 and 20 wpm code passers for years?
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: The Slab Bacon on February 07, 2007, 11:21:06 AM with all of the pissing and moaning about this, It has done one thing that I have been trying to do for years. My wife now has her ticket!! She passed the technician test with just information learned from hanging around with me when I was operating!! She took a practice test for the general on qrz and got 19 out of 36 right just from listening to us!! She will have her general by the end of the month!! I have been after her to do it for years, but her dyslexia always made the code a huge stumbling block. I now get to have fun teasing her with some gross phonetics for her call!
The Slab Bacon Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: k4kyv on February 07, 2007, 01:13:59 PM Just as I predicted, after the initial onrush, once the new wore off the new phone frequencies, many of the stations would drift back and settle in to the old habitual frequencies, and activity in the expanded band would dwindle.
That's exactly what I have been observing since about mid-January. Not only with AM, but SSB as well. Saturday night after about 0330 GMT, the band was wide open, QRN was non-existent, yet there were just a handful of signals in the entire Extra portion. Nevertheless, on the new frequencies, I have worked AM'ers I had never heard before. Many are trying out their riceboxes on AM for the first time (and some of them manage to sound pretty close to broadcast quality), while others are coming out of the woodwork with Rangers, DX-100's etc. Most have been running low power, but with all the room on the band, it is possible to get on 75 at night with low power and be heard all over the continent - a near impossibility before 15th December. I have been on 3870-90 maybe once or twice since the band opened up. I listen up there, and hear the same thing as always: 2 or 3 AM QSO's crammed into about 15 kc/s of spectrum, several slopbuckets quacking away in between and sometimes underneath the AM signals, and 8-10 AM stations in each old buzzard style roundtable. So I have pretty much been staying below 3750, calling CQ in one of the wide-open spaces when I hear no AM QSO already in progress. Several of the ricebox owners who tried out their rigs on AM for the first time and answered my CQ, have said they liked operating the mode and would interested in working AM some more. The only hassle I have had is from a couple of "dead-air groups," i.e. they monitor a frequency sometimes for hours, without transmitting, but as soon as someone outside the group transmit near the frequency they have chosen to squat upon, several members of the group jump on the frequency and very rudely make a claim that the frequency is "in use." Usually I just try to avoid such rubbish, but if I come on a clear frequency that I have monitored for over 20 minutes and heard no activity, then I am the one using the frequency, and I tend to be stubborn about moving out of their way when they try to run me off. But all in all, I hear a lot less rudeness on 75 than I used to hear before the expansion. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: N6WDR on February 07, 2007, 03:05:06 PM All I know is if you fill the ham bands with a bunch of idiots the hobby will suffer.
Example: Last Night a gang of slop buckets come on 2 KHz above the gray hair net and continue after they complain about it. The band has plenty of room so why do people have to do this. Answer you invite morons into the hobby you have to live with their lack of class. Just tune the 40 channels around 27 MHz. Do you want this to be ham radio? Let me start off with I am one of those so called morons that just passed his General last Saturday with out having to take the code. I don’t consider my self lazy or any of the other things that have been said on this thread. Not all people coming from the world of CB are lacked of class. I have been in to CB radios since 1976 and have run across a lot of people that have made the jump to get their ticket and have enjoyed it. I figured after all these years I would finally make the jump and get my Tech which I did last September and now last Saturday I passed the General. I did this for the sole purpose of getting on 3885 with my Johnson Valiant that I have been restoring for the last year. I enjoy working on my own stuff and building my own antennas so not all of us CBer’s are morons or lazy, I will say that a majority of them have a lot of issues. As far as worrying about them coming up into the ham bands I wouldn’t worry too much about that, they would rather sit on the CB and create hate and discontent, then to pick up a book and learn how this stuff really works. Instead of bashing or pissing and moaning all the time about this issue, why not take these new people that will be coming and teach them the correct way or correct procedures to use their radio. I am fortunate to have a good Elmer Bill (K6TWO) to teach me all his knowledge and not lead me astray. To me that is what all this radio business is all about, talking to and meeting wonderful people and teaching what you have learned through out the years. Anyway I am done venting now, I will put on my flak jacket now and prepare for incoming fire. Richard KI6FAB Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: K1MVP on February 07, 2007, 03:38:20 PM hasnt that sort of thing been going on with wonderful 13 and 20 wpm code passers for years? This "downward slide" started IMO, and others, when the FCC turned over testing to the VEC program, and also when the EXACT answers were published ala the famous Dick Bash method. The FCC could no longer "support" testing by examiners, due to manpower shortages. This led to many abuses, in the VEC program,--or potentials for abuse.,--and this goes back over 20 years. Ham radio IS NOT the same as it was 25 years ago, and its just getting worse . 73, K1MVP P.S, I think the FCC would not care if HR did "self destuct",-- they have "bigger interests", IMO. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 07, 2007, 04:58:06 PM This "downward slide" started IMO, and others, when the FCC turned over testing to the VEC program, and also when the EXACT answers were published ala the famous Dick Bash method. The FCC could no longer "support" testing by examiners, due to manpower shortages. This led to many abuses, in the VEC program,--or potentials for abuse.,--and this goes back over 20 years. Ham radio IS NOT the same as it was 25 years ago, and its just getting worse . 73, K1MVP P.S, I think the FCC would not care if HR did "self destuct",-- they have "bigger interests", IMO. Here ya go: (http://www.oneposter.com/UserData/Poster/Poster_28267.JPG) Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: K1MVP on February 07, 2007, 06:25:59 PM Well Pete,--You DO have a sense of humor,--and maybe that`s what will go along way in saving
the future of ham radio. 73`s K1MVP Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Ed KB1HVS on February 07, 2007, 06:59:28 PM with all of the pissing and moaning about this, It has done one thing that I have been trying to do for years. My wife now has her ticket!! She passed the technician test with just information learned from hanging around with me when I was operating!! She took a practice test for the general on qrz and got 19 out of 36 right just from listening to us!! She will have her general by the end of the month!! I have been after her to do it for years, but her dyslexia always made the code a huge stumbling block. I now get to have fun teasing her with some gross phonetics for her call! The Slab Bacon I wish my XYL would do it. Even for a Tech ticket I think it would be kinda nice to converse with her on 2m on her way home from work than blab on a dropping out cell phone. Should I bring her flowers with a question out of the study book each day? Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Joe Long on February 07, 2007, 07:53:16 PM Since 1976? 31 years on 11 meters? Thats a lot af 10-4s good buddy
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: KB2WIG on February 07, 2007, 08:55:59 PM "Earlier a Florida court had ordered that 43 year-old Navy Capt Lisa Nowak, KC5ZTB, who was facing charges of attempted kidnapping and battery, could be freed on bail. " "P.S, I think the FCC would not care if HR did "self destuct",-- they have "bigger interests", IMO. " I guess it is starting .... .. klc Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: w3jn on February 07, 2007, 09:22:40 PM Let me start off with I am one of those so called morons that just passed his General last Saturday with out having to take the code. I don’t consider my self lazy or any of the other things that have been said on this thread. Richard KI6FAB Dude, don't let the pissers and moaners get ya down. Many (most) of us welcome you guys with open arms. As you can see from all the whining about the unpleasantness on 75 (the perpetrators of which have ALL passed the CW test), the CW test hasn't done a damn thing in keeping out morons. Passing the CW test, or not, only measures your ability to copy CW. Not your IQ. Not your technical ability. Not your ability to get along with people. And certainly not your ability to hold an interesting QSO. Some hams get it. Others don't. Too bad for them, I see nothing but good coming from a new group of enthusiastic hams. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WA1GFZ on February 07, 2007, 09:31:46 PM Welcome Richard!
However you got here. morons not Welcome we have plenty and yes it has little to do with CW. I guess anyone who learned CW feels it is a filter but it is a proven fact morons can learn CW. I have never run into a moron on CW though, only phone. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: w3jn on February 08, 2007, 07:10:07 AM How about the knuckleheads that insist on jamming AM QSOs with CW?
Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: N6WDR on February 08, 2007, 09:27:23 AM Thank You for the kind words guys ;D, and I am glad to be here.
I look foward to being able to hook up with you guys and holding a QSO with you on the air, but that will have to wait until after 23 FEB ;). Thanks again, Richard KI6FAB Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WD8BIL on February 08, 2007, 10:41:24 AM Quote Anyway I am done venting now, I will put on my flak jacket now and prepare for incoming fire. Richard KI6FAB Welcome aboard Richard..... looks like you'll do just fine !!!! Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: The Slab Bacon on February 08, 2007, 12:36:08 PM Ah, yes,
Welcome aboard Richard. the AM world is not for the thin skinned. if you think this is a rough croud, you should have been there for one of the good old friday or saturday night break-in sessions!! ;D ;D The Slab Bacon Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: k4kyv on February 08, 2007, 02:20:26 PM How about the knuckleheads that insist on jamming AM QSOs with CW? I had one of those on my QSO on 3685 last evening about 2400 GMT. A dead-air-group slopbucketeer who didn't think his SSB signal was capable of doing any damage. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Ed KB1HVS on February 08, 2007, 03:05:15 PM Thank You for the kind words guys ;D, and I am glad to be here. I look foward to being able to hook up with you guys and holding a QSO with you on the air, but that will have to wait until after 23 FEB ;). Thanks again, Richard KI6FAB Why wait? Only a few days left to be a boot ya know........ ;D Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WD8BIL on February 09, 2007, 01:01:56 PM Quote Many of us commented on both proposals and both proposals were beat hard into the ground. 11305's any mode, any bandwidth, anywhere, in my opinion, never got off the ground. The voice expansion was already blessed by the FCC two years prior. No where's near true Petee !!! The original FCC blessing would have given us 25Khz more on 75.(Down to 3725) No where's near the expansion we got. And, on good authority, as part of the group, I know for a fact our 11305 had a lot to do with the LARGER phone expansions. The withdrawal wasn't an admission of defeat but rather an acknowlegment to the FCC that the announced R&O went a good way toward our desires and in light of the feedback to BOTH proposals we'd withdraw. This was ment to show we are willing to work with the FCC when they make common sense decisions such as they did. To continue to support the ARRL is fine.... but get ur facts and history straight. The novice refarming WAS a good 2 years before 11305 true. But it did not provide the magnitude of change initiated by 11305 and others. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 09, 2007, 02:08:52 PM Quote Many of us commented on both proposals and both proposals were beat hard into the ground. 11305's any mode, any bandwidth, anywhere, in my opinion, never got off the ground. The voice expansion was already blessed by the FCC two years prior. No where's near true Petee !!! The original FCC blessing would have given us 25Khz more on 75.(Down to 3725) No where's near the expansion we got. And, on good authority, as part of the group, I know for a fact our 11305 had a lot to do with the LARGER phone expansions. Identify your source; the R&O never made any mention of RM-11305 or it's proposed goals of "any mode, any bandwidth, anywhere". Quote The withdrawal wasn't an admission of defeat but rather an acknowlegment to the FCC that the announced R&O went a good way toward our desires and in light of the feedback to BOTH proposals we'd withdraw. This was ment to show we are willing to work with the FCC when they make common sense decisions such as they did. To continue to support the ARRL is fine.... but get ur facts and history straight. The novice refarming WAS a good 2 years before 11305 true. But it did not provide the magnitude of change initiated by 11305 and others. I stand by what I said. Based on 11305's original stated goals in its proposal, it never got off the ground. The fact that the FCC's final ruling expanded the phone bands further from the original agreement, could be based on the Comments submitted to the R&O by many people or to the FCC's own view that expansion of the phone band the way they saw it, could lead to an easier future implementation of "regulation by bandwidth". Of course, the current gain was not without pain: The big Extra Class phone band comes at the expense of General and Advanced CW operators, and at the expense of all RTTY/data operators. Legally, a CW traffic net made up of Extra Class operators could just stay put above 3600 kHz. However, RTTY/data operators have no option. They must relocate below 3600 kHz, and of course most CW nets will do so as well in order to avoid phone interference and so as not to exclude their General and Advanced members. A particular problem for the users of automatically controlled digital stations is that the frequencies that no longer will be available for RTTY/data emission include 3620-3635 kHz, where automatic control of RTTY/data has been permitted. A later amendment to the ruling moved 3620-3635 activity moved this down to 3585-3600 to further eat into the CW segment. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WD8BIL on February 09, 2007, 02:24:51 PM Quote Identify your source; the R&O never made any mention of RM-11305 or it's proposed goals of "any mode, any bandwidth, anywhere". How soon you forget. We've already been down this road Pete. I posted, in previous discussions, language from 04-140 that was directly influenced by 11305. From 04-140: "....The overall effect of this action is to further public interest by allowing amateur service licensees to use the spectrum more efficiently, and allowing amateur service stations to operate with fewer restrictions." From 11305: "..... to achieve greater, more efficient, utiliztion of frequency allocations within the amateur radio service bands." R&O 04-140 directly addressed the spirit of 11305 and I'm proud of our efforts. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on February 09, 2007, 02:44:41 PM Quote Identify your source; the R&O never made any mention of RM-11305 or it's proposed goals of "any mode, any bandwidth, anywhere". How soon you forget. We've already been down this road Pete. I posted, in previous discussions, language from 04-140 that was a direct quote from 11305. Don't recall any direct quote or reference to RM-11305. However, it should be pointed out that a few of the people who commented to 04-140 also had a hand in the RM-11305 proposal. It's makes no sense that they wouldn't continue to speak the same words. I still see no justification that the FCC directly pulled any viable information from the 11305, "any mode, any bandwidth, anywhere" proposal. Of course, it’s always a “feel good” to pat ones self on the back when one perceives inwardly that they made the world a better place. Personally, in my opinion, it makes no sense to continue a discussion of RM-11305. It’s now a dead proposal for whatever reason. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: WD8BIL on February 09, 2007, 02:56:13 PM Don't patronize me Pete. And I won't attempt to prove anything to you. your mind is made up inspite of the facts.
I'll admit a "direct quote" was mis-stated and corrected. But for YOU to sit there and speak on things you have no direct info on is ignorance plain and simple. I know we made a difference. It is not perceived inwardly. It has been confirmed to me directly and I don't NEED YOU to believe it. And you're right, 11305 and code testing is gone. No need to hash it any further. Enjoy ur new frequencies. Your welcome. Title: Re: Codeless Amateur Radio - Feb. 23, 2007 Post by: k4kyv on February 09, 2007, 04:04:51 PM The original FCC blessing would have given us 25Khz more on 75.(Down to 3725) And that's exactly how much phone band expansion ARRL requested in their "Novice refarming" proposal. In their bandwidth petition, they proposed allowing wider bandwidths down to somewhere in the vicinity of 3600, but included language that specifically precluded the new "wide bandwidth mode" segment from becoming a "de facto expansion of the voice subbands." |