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Author Topic: New AM bandplan  (Read 46093 times)
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WA3VJB
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« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2006, 04:57:13 AM »

At least dress it up a little Steve -- helps you make your point  --

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Ed/KB1HYS
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« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2006, 06:12:06 AM »

Can you imagine what would happen if some senior ARRL member/official posted on this board using his real name???

FLAME ON!!!

I used to get email from a reflector that had Ed Hare as a member.  Ed is a great guy, who actually works hard to help out Ham Radio in general, he is/was the RFI Guru,  and he would Frequently get Flamed just because he was an ARRL guy. He eventually stopped posting, which was damed shame as that guy knows his stuff.

Rarely are there any useful discussions about the ARRL, it devovles into a bash fest... Almost as bad as the  Code Wars on QRZ...  Roll Eyes

Like my Ol' Dad used to say,  If you don't want to DO anything about it, quit yer B!tchen!!!

And just for the record, No I'm not a Member...  I don't even play one on TV....
 
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73 de Ed/KB1HYS
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 "I've spent three quarters of my life trying to figure out how to do a $50 job for $.50, the rest I spent trying to come up with the $0.50" - D. Gingery
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« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2006, 07:18:53 AM »

Very well put ED.

Quote
If you don't want to DO  anything about it, quit yer B!tchen!!!

Yes it is ashame that when someone voices thier opion here that someone doesn't like then it becomes ok to flame a person away from the site . And then when a person crosses the line in regard to rules and regs they cry foul if any action is taken . I have people I have known for years that said they were freinds that refuse to even say hi to me at flea markets because of this crap. Others just say they are not going to post anymore, you know like a little 6 year old that has been caught taking candy or something - - geeez.

Ed Hare was beat on for months by a select few. When those "special few" were told to stop it they left the site and decided they were going to punish ( HA ) the AM communtiy by not participating on this site. It's funny because they still check the site out almost daily. It shows you the type of people they really are. It's not hard to know whom I am talking about because these people are still badmouthing the site over their "mis-treatment".

It's funny but history shows those that are the most verbal have offered very little to offer our hobby or mode that is constructive and positive.

Because of this select group of selfish individuals we have lost a good supporter and of course any good communication here on the site with anyone from the ARRL.



G





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G - The INR


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« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2006, 10:11:20 AM »

I am not certain, but I suspect Ed Hair does not participate becasue many of the people you speak about took his comments as "official", or took offense at his comments and contacted his bosses.  This can cause consternation within any orgnization and they may not have told him to quit, but he didn't want the hassel of explaining what he said everytime.
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« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2006, 01:02:27 PM »

You might be right Jim.  I don't know.

What I do know is we did have people from  the ARRL on this site and ran them off which I take personnally. I feel we failed our main goal here on AMfone. It should have never gotten that far but it did. We have corrected things since that time and it would not happen again.

But now that we have run them off the site we criticise that they are not here commenting. We can't have it both ways.

Any post in this ARRL forum ends up the same way. The ARRL haters trash the threads with their opions instead of addressing the issues. Many will not post in here because of that. That is not in our best interest. Just like how this thread started as a BAndplan issues and turned into a I hate the ARRL thread - - Pathetic.

 It is harder to correct the situation than to sit on ones ass and complain about it. That is all I ever see in these threads - words no action.

I firmly beleive that if the ARRL sent 1 million dollars to each and every ham in the US the same critics would complain that the money was distributed in 10 dollar bills.

It is sad.

What is that saying, "you can have an opinion as long as it agrees with mine" Wink

We have a term in NY for that - - BS

Anyway I see no end to this thread that would actually benefit anyone or our hobby so I am moving on . I apologise for my contribution to derailing this thread.

Thanks

G


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G - The INR


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Are FETs supposed to glow like that?


« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2006, 05:47:15 PM »

I know on the CW reflector they are pissing and moaning about all the CW spectrum the Generals lost.  But Generals gained 50 kc/s of phone spectrum, and 3500-3600 is still plenty considering the amount of CW activity these days.  I suspect mosts Generals were glad to make the trade.

I do think the FCC went a  little overboard with the Extra class only portion.

Still not perfectly clear if the Generals will lose non-voice privileges on 3600-3700.


Suprisingly enough...
They are even now trying to help all those CW nets (NTS mostly) move down into the 3500-3600kc portion.

Yep, I'm sure there will be some moaning......

I recieved an email today with the proposed freq changes....
That's a lot of nets to squeeze in 100kc!....
But considering the CW filtering, and the bandwidth, I bet they'll manage......



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Are FETs supposed to glow like that?


« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2006, 06:07:02 PM »

It will all be very interesting indeed...............
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2006, 11:44:09 PM »

An organization is nothing more or less than the individuals that make up the organization.  A lot of the slipperyness/tricks and other apparent philosophies and changes by the ARRL we dislike may be coming from Dave Sumner, in my opinion.  He's been in there a long, long, long, long, long time; too long.   No one should ever be the head of an organization for a very long time.

Perhaps its time to try to get a regime change.  I don't know when the next time Dave comes up for a vote or whatever his "renewal process" is, but let's consider an orchestrated plan to contact our ARRL section people , headquarters and board members for non-renewal of Dave.  Non-ARRL hams can give feedback.  ARRL members can also threaten to drop their membership.

Not everything the league does is bad.  In my opinion it ain't worthwhile killing the organization, just get a different and better leader in power.

What say?

Mr. Sumner’s brief bio:
“Active from the first as an ARRL volunteer, he joined the Headquarters staff in 1968 for the summer, became a part of the permanent staff in 1972, and was named Assistant General Manager four years later. He was named Secretary and General Manager in 1982, with a change in title to Executive Vice President in 1985 and the additional title of Chief Executive Officer in 2001”

If you would like to read his entire bio, it’s here:
http://www.remote.arrl.org/pio/bios/officials/k1zz.html

Considering 1982 as his start as General Manager, he’s been in the position 24 years.

Note:
ARRL Articles of Association:
Article 8:

The officers of the Corporation shall be a President, a First Vice President, an Executive Vice President, a Chief Financial Officer, an International Affairs Vice President, not more than one additional Vice President, a Secretary and a Treasurer, who shall be elected by a majority of the Directors at the Annual Meeting on even numbered years. The Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer shall be compensated at rates agreeable to them and the Board of Directors.

Mr. Sumner was re-elected in January 2006.

Also note, from the By-Laws:
15. The President, the Vice Presidents, and the Treasurer shall possess all of the rights and duties of directors save the right to vote and the right to participate in the call of a special meeting of the Board, as referred to in Article 4 of the Articles of Association, provided, however, that the President shall be required to cast a vote on any matter as to which a tie is found to exist.

Notation: “all of the rights and duties of directors save the right to vote

The Directors have all the voting privileges with the President casting a deciding vote in event of a tie. The Directors decide through their discussion and voting processes whether proposals, changes to strategies, nominations, other actions relevant to amateur radio, etc. move forward, get tabled, require further investigation, etc. I guess in a simple phrase, the Chief Executive Officer “runs the business” of the ARRL with a number of sub-ordinates below him to make that all happen.

So, I guess I’m somewhat curious as to your phrase “lot of the slipperyness/tricks and other apparent philosophies and changes” and what can you provide to us to justify your statement that Mr. Sumner is somehow responsible for all this. As you said, it’s your opinion, but it might be interesting to share your thoughts. Although there have been a number of actions taken and passed by the board over the last 24 years (using the same time Mr. Sumner has been in the CEO position), that even I was not pleased with, it’s not clear to me that you can point the finger to the CEO and say it’s all his fault. Even with their bandwidth proposal as an example, only 12 of the Directors approved, with 3 disapproving, to move forward and submit it to the FCC. Seems like a democratic process to me.

Also, in order oust Mr. Sumner from position of CEO; you would need to convince at least 8 members of the BoD not to vote in favor of his re-election if he’s nominated in the next even-numbered year. Or, some other candidate would have to be identified, that would have to be nominated to run for the position in opposition to the current candidate by at least one Director. At least 8 Directors would have to vote in favor for the opposing candidate.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
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« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2006, 06:52:27 PM »

We should make it a point to generate some AM presence down in the 3600-3700 kc Extra class phone portion.  We should have a nice clear channel down there.  I suspect it's going to be pretty sparce,  with loads of vacant frequencies.  Just like it is now.  But it will make transatlantic AM QSO's much easier.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2007, 11:57:46 AM »

Yeah, a lil' pirate activity for me at 3625.  I'll have to turn in my extra lite ticket and get a no-code upgrade.

I still say Bring back Huntoon.  Get some order in this class.  Yeah, 250kc CW every band forever.
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RICK  *W3RSW*
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« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2007, 02:33:46 PM »

Quote
How could they possibly plan for a decision they didn't expect?

That's a good question Mike. Short answer is, of course, they could not.
But it begs another question. Why did they not expect it ?  Had they had their collective fingers on what was really happening on the bands they might have considered a larger expansion then they requested. ie.... 25 khz here, 25 there.

It was obvious to most mildly attentive hams that the phone bands needed MAJOR expansions.

But I'm just a dumb ass buddly... what do I know?
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« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2007, 03:59:00 PM »

Here’s something you all might find useful. It’s a revised band plan chart based on the latest changes. An enterprising ham compiled it all for the HF Bands.

http://mostgraveconcern.com/ke7hlr/hfbands/HFBandPlan.pdf
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« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2007, 08:56:37 AM »

    My ticket says I can use Fone from 3600-4000 kc. That is exactly what I intend to do. If the freq has been clear for 10 minutes or so, it's mine. The worst thing to do, I feel, is to hang around a certain freq. This will put us back in the same pigeon-hole we were in on 3885! Best thing to do is keep moving around and use all the kc's your ticket allows. That way our AM presence will be noted.
    The ARRL sent me a letter offering me The Antenna Book if I would re-join. I bought one about 10 years ago and it fell apart several years later because it was so cheaply bound. Remember these were the guys that proposed to make AM illegal. Know thy enemy.
       
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"Rock Cave Dave"
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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2007, 09:36:59 AM »

    My ticket says I can use Fone from 3600-4000 kc. That is exactly what I intend to do. If the freq has been clear for 10 minutes or so, it's mine. The worst thing to do, I feel, is to hang around a certain freq. This will put us back in the same pigeon-hole we were in on 3885! Best thing to do is keep moving around and use all the kc's your ticket allows. That way our AM presence will be noted.
 
       

Gee,--the "new bandplan" say`s that cw IS LEGAL from 3500 to 4000,
which would also mean that I could/can use cw anywhere in that
window,--I wonder how many cw ops might just use that attitude
with all these "new privs" for fone?

                                         73, K1MVP 


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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2007, 09:46:42 AM »

CW has always been legal from 3500-4000 kHz. Nothing new here.
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« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2007, 12:26:26 PM »


Gee,--the "new bandplan" say`s that cw IS LEGAL from 3500 to 4000,
which would also mean that I could/can use cw anywhere in that
window,--I wonder how many cw ops might just use that attitude
with all these "new privs" for fone?

                                         73, K1MVP 




Judging from the endemic CW jamming I've experienced since becoming an AMer, quite a few.
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« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2007, 10:48:06 AM »

The biggest issue we face in this is getting people down there to populate the frequencies regularly. The Canadian AM group on 3725 seems to vanish around dinner time never to return, so SSB stations have been staking their claims below 3750. Initially we had good activity down there, but as of late it's been sparse at best, non-existent many nights. I've called CQ dozens of times and eventually most get answered. Yet the 75m cesspool portion of the band still seems active despite carriers and jamming galore. I guess more folks are crystal controlled than we thought?  Wink



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« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2007, 03:21:32 PM »

I hope all the enthusiasm for the expanded phone segments doesn't lead to a rerun of the old AM/SSB wars of the 50s-60s, that was some boring stuff! Don't forget the data guys are going to jump in here somewhere also. Automated/unattended operation of ham radio digital mode stations-how lame brained can it get!   

But "data" modes are prohibited wherever phone is allowed, for whatever reason.  CW can operate anywhere in the band.

I have noticed a little CW here and there popping up lately in the 3600-3750 range.  Also, some of the CW traffic nets are operating just below 3600.  Digital stuff seems to fall between between 3580 and 3600.

Fewer of the more recent licensees seem to have the vehement anti-AM attitude, and seem to merely think of AM as one other mode.  I suspect this is because they never lived through the era of "SSB indoctrination" that took place in amateur radio in the late 50's and throughout the 60's.  Many of the rabid anti-AM'ers were of the WW2 generation, who first got into amateur radio during the early postwar days , a generation that's now increasingly residing in nursing homes and rapidly joining the SK ranks.

For the very few newer hams who come in with an anti-AM attitude, this seems to be baggage left over from their 11m days.  Many of the "freebanders" equate AM with CB as it appears on the legal channels, something to be derided and ridiculed.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2007, 03:54:02 PM »

Probably the one thing that kept me from ever running SSB at my station was the intense sales pitch and all the other pressures back in the early 1960's, exerted by the amateur radio "establishment" on everyone to convert, and the guilt trip that was laid on anyone who baulked at the notion by continuing to run AM or even having anything good to say about it.

Some aspects of the AM/SSB "war mode" of the 60's were a challenge and some of it was downright fun, but it was too easy to get carried away, even causing a few individuals who weren't clever enough to figure out just exactly where to draw the line, to lose their licence.

I think I have a cooler head on the issue now that AM is now widely accepted as just one more facet of amateur radio to be enjoyed along with all the rest.  That is how it should have been all along.

SSB dates back as early as the 1920's as a voice communications mode, particularly for transoceanic commercial radiotelephone circuits that pre-dated the development of voice-capable undersea cable and satellite communication.

In amateur radio, AM has now been "coming back" for over 35 years, many more years than it was ever "dead" to begin with.



http://www.amwindow.org/pix/htm/w4ebg.htm

PS: It was Con and myself who used the "wobblers."  I don't think Walt ever had one.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2007, 05:58:21 PM »

SSB/AM wars in the 60's. Must of been away from the rig!



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