Any sausage stuffers out there?

[KA1ZGC]

First, the big announcement:

From the kitchens of ZGC Foods (a subsidiary of ZGC Laboratories) comes another of the fine products you have come to expect to bear the ZGC label: ZGC Sausage!

Yes, the makers of ZGC Barbecue Sauce have been working dilligently in our kitchens to produce this fine product; lovingly made from only the choicest cuts of ZGC Meats, our freshest ZGC Herbs and ZGC Spices, and all-natural ZGC Pig, Sheep, or Cow Intestines!

Okay, now I've got that out of my system...

Anybody else around here into sausage stuffing? I'm just getting into it myself. Certainly not the least repulsive thing I've done in the kitchen (  ), but the results are well worth the initial gross-out factor.

Saturday afternoon was the maiden voyage. Two pounds of hot italian sausage filled about 3-1/2 feet of hog casing, as you can see in the picture. The meat remaining in the grinder (playing the role of the stuffer) was just enough to fill one more link. Bummer, because that left me with another 3 feet or so of casing that had to be thrown out. 

On a separate-but-related topic, if I were to schlep a bunch of sausages to the fall Hosstraders, what are your preferences/favorites?

I'm already thinking bratwurst, kielbasa, hot italian, sweet italian, and bockwurst. Any others?

--Thom
Keep Around One Zesty Ground Critter

[K3ZS]

Smoked venison bologna is a favorite around here.  Also soppreseta (not sure of spelling).  It is an Italian sausage that is pressed and aged until dry in the middle.  I guess all AMers like good food.

[KA1ZGC]

Smoked venison bologna is a favorite around here.  Also soppreseta (not sure of spelling).  It is an Italian sausage that is pressed and aged until dry in the middle.  I guess all AMers like good food.

Those will be several stages down the road. I'm still lacking a smoker, for starters. Sopressata is usually cold-smoked for a couple of days, and dried for 8 to 10 weeks! If I were to start now, I might just be done by the time Hosstraders rolled around.

Bologna (venison or otherwise) takes a couple of weeks of curing before stuffing, then a few days smoking and several weeks of fermenting afterwards. It's easier, but I still need to get (or build) a smoker first.

Those are both things I want to try, but I'm just not up to that level yet. Maybe next year.

Oh, I forgot to mention, I can easily stuff as much breakfast sausage as it takes to feed the whole corral. Any preferences on how spicy, anyone?

--Thom
Kilimanjaro Africa One Zulu Goat Cheese

[KB2WIG]

hot plate, pie tin, sawdust..... place hotlpate and pie tin inside a large cardboard box, , plug her in, add saawdust and your SMOKIN...    klc

[John Holotko]

I have heard that old discarded refrigerators make excellent smokers. My dad worked for Con Ed and a co-worker of his was into smoking meats and he used old refrigerators as his smokers.  The guy made a great smokes sausage and a fantastic smoked bacon. And my mom was on a low salt diet and the guy made her a salt free smoked bacon. It was great.

I  have never tried stuffing my own "sausage" (no wisecracks please). Seriously though,  my grandma used to make  sausage as described using the ground meat, spices, fillings. It was a lot of preparation  and work but was some great eating,
 

[KA1ZGC]

I have heard that old discarded refrigerators make excellent smokers. My dad worked for Con Ed and a co-worker of his was into smoking meats and he used old refrigerators as his smokers.  The guy made a great smokes sausage and a fantastic smoked bacon. And my mom was on a low salt diet and the guy made her a salt free smoked bacon. It was great.

I  have never tried stuffing my own "sausage" (no wisecracks please). Seriously though,  my grandma used to make  sausage as described using the ground meat, spices, fillings. It was a lot of preparation  and work but was some great eating,

 

Holy fridgidaires, John. I just had a really frightening thought: Gort the Smoker.

The stuffing part isn't too hard, once you get the hang of it. The casings smell rather strongly intestinal (surprise, surprise surprise) when you first unwrap them, and they can be a real bitch to slip onto the stuffing horn (I hear Beavis and Butthead laughing in the background), but like you eluded to: it's everything but stuffing the casings that really goes into making a good sausage.

I'm definately going to keep the discarded fridges in mind, though. Thanks, John!

kc: I was thinking something similar, but with an old woodstove. I like John's fridge suggestion, though. Don't be suprised if the first smoker deployed at ZGC Smokehouses is a hot plate and pie tin stuck in a jockstrapped fridge!

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

--Thom
Keep Away One Zorched Ground Conductor

[W3SLK]

K3ZS said:

Smoked venison bologna is a favorite around here.  Also soppreseta (not sure of spelling).  It is an Italian sausage that is pressed and aged until dry in the middle.  I guess all AMers like good food.

I think you mean soupasala. Around these parts they are referred to as 'soupies', and those that make them guard their ancient recipes like Forth Knox. They are all different and in some circles, only certain people know the whole recipe. Lots of beer is consumed during the mixing and pressing.

[KB2WIG]

If yous guys use the refrigerator, watch out for freezer burn...

The nice thing r/e the cardboard box, is you get to through it away when finished....no storage problem....

The refrigerator method is a multi tasking devise... check out the HLR methods.. somewhere theres a pic of himusing one as a dog house...

[John Holotko]

Just to make it clear the refrigerator when used as a smoker is generally discarded and non-functional. You might even remove the internal  gutsi.e. compressor, fans, etc.

In the old days didn;'t they build smoke houses ?

BTW what types of wood do they use for smoking ?  I know hickory is the most common but don;t they use other varieties of wood as well ?

[K3ZS]

Green applewood clipped right off of the trees and thrown right on the charcoal works great.  Apple trees always need to have the shoots trimmed anyway.  Dried apple wood burned and then cook directly over the coals also is great with grilled steaks. ( I live next to an orchard and have apple trees of my own.).

[Fred k2dx]

The discarded refrig with a hotplate works well. Being well insulated helps. I have been using a great three piece
Coleman for years, a well spent 40.00. Probably more now. It's important to get a three piece unit, I've seen many two piece units. You can lift off the middle/upper intact to tend your charcoal without losing heat/smoke.
Water bowl in the middle w/ one or two grills above it. You can do a turkey in about 24 hours. I've done turkeys, hams, roasts, many kinds of fish, ribs, tenderloins, jalapenos (chipoltes), habeneros, kielbasa, venison sausage, pork sausage, hot sausage.

The key with smoking is to experiment. It's easy for a beginner to overdo the smoke or dry out the product. Think long and slow....

Charcoal alone, or with hickory, mesquite, apple (remember to soak them well beforehand). Chunks/pieces work best. Chips are good for grilling or Cajun style blackening as they burn faster. The Coleman upper lid can be set over the grill to hold the smoke in for these methods.

I highly recommend the Coleman charcoal smoker. It's temperature gauge is very helpful. Another thing, being of uninsulated steel construction requires it to be shielded from cold air and especially wind in the winter....

Overall I give it five stars.                Rating: *****

[KA1ZGC]

TNX, Fred. I'll definately take a look at that one.

We had a little backyard smoker when I was a kid. I forget who made the thing (Brinkman, perhaps?), but they were pretty common in the late 70s/early 80s. About 4 feet high, maybe 1.5 foot diameter. Dried out a turkey or two before we really got the hang of it, then it was OKAY FINE from there on out. Salmon smoked with apple wood came out really good.

We wound up tossing the thing some years back because the temp guage had an opening in the back that earwigs liked to crawl into, and my dad wasn't doing much fishing anymore.

Hickory, mesquite, apple and cherry are the most common smoking woods, and my folks have apple and cherry trees on their property.

One of these days I'll build/procure a smoker, but for now I'm going to stick to the fresh sausages. Still trying to make up my mind whether I want to whip up a batch of kielbasa or bratwurst for this weekend.

Decisions, decisions...

TNX again for all the suggestions, guys. You've given me some great ideas!

--Thom
Killer Album One Zappa's Greatest Compositions

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

Thom,
        I don't have a knowledge of stuffing sausages or any special recipies, but all I can say is: I wish I lived closer to you! With all that sausage to stuff and things to make, I'm sure you could use a hand or two.

I also wouldn't object to trying out your homebrew product!

Regarding (what Americans spell "sopresato" and Italians pronounce like "Super-Saad"); it's truly a delictable treat, one of my favorite foods in the whole world. Picture smoked fatty pork products in a hard casing, with kind of a salty peppery taste. Truly a tasty meat treat fit for the protein Godz!

I like to shave it real thin and add it to my red "gravy" aka: tomato sauce. The thin consistency makes it dissolve well into the sauce and gives it a nice meaty flavor, though it may be a bit salty for some people. You'll never be able to completely dissolve it in the sauce, but who the hell cares?

Mike(y) - W3SLK: The stuff you mentioned has got to be the same thing as "Super-Saad".

Best Regards and "mange, mange"
                                                Joe Cro N3IBX

[The Slab Bacon]

Red Gravy?? Whats with the "red Gravy" szht, Real Dagos (like myself) simply call it
SAUCE!!  Thats sumptin that you philly boyz thought up!!   I have never made red gravy, gravy goes on meat and smashed potatoes, You put SAUCE on yer pasta!!

And, uh, er, furthermore, Y'all have eaten my "SAUCE" at post timmonium party!

Recipes for really good dago sausage are more guarded than atomic weapons technology. My cousins make killer sausage to die for but the bums wont tell me their recipe. (They sell the stuff at their store)

I know that the basic ingrediments are: pork butts, white wine and lots of fennel seed, but after that it getz tricky.
                                                          the Slab Bacon

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

Red Gravy?? Whats with the "red Gravy" szht, Real Dagos (like myself) simply call it
SAUCE!!  Thats sumptin that you philly boyz thought up!!   I have never made red gravy, gravy goes on meat and smashed potatoes, You put SAUCE on yer pasta!!

That "gravy" thing is also big among Italians in NYC and North Jersey. There, "gravy" means spaghetti sauce. Elsewhere (and among non-Italians), "gravy" is the brown stuff that you put on mashed potatoes and meat.

I beg to differ! Gravy is so much more than something in a can made by "Franco-American"!

"Sau-sige is own"!

Joe N3IBX

[Glenn NY4NC]

Is that anything like fudge packing? 

Anybody else around here into sausage stuffing?

[KA1ZGC]

One of these days I'll build/procure a smoker, but for now I'm going to stick to the fresh sausages. Still trying to make up my mind whether I want to whip up a batch of kielbasa or bratwurst for this weekend.

Best to stick to the fresh sausages. A major hazard with making homemade smoked sausage is botulism. Commercially smoked sausage contains sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate to retard the growth of Clostridium botulinum, the organism that causes botulism. C. botulinum will grow quite well in sausages placed in the warmth of a smoker. The heat of cooking the smoked sausage will not destroy botulinum toxin. At least sixty-five percent of all botulism cases are fatal. The botulinum toxin is tasteless, odorless, and the symptoms of poisoning do not appear for hours after the poison has been absorbed into the bloodstream. Too much nitrite or nitrate is also bad, as both chemicals are poisonous in high doses.

The word "botulism" comes from botulus, the Latin word for "sausage". If you want smoked sausages, get them at the supermarket. Don't gamble with your health!

You forgot to mention trichinosis.

Botulism and trichinosis are the reasons those sausages are cured first. Sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite are both easily purchased retail. Their use and amounts depends on how the sausages will be processed after they are stuffed into the casing. We've had centuries to get it right, and you'll find there are people all over the planet smoking and/or fermenting and/or drying sausages that are perfectly fine.

Yes, there's still a risk, but why should I go to HRO and buy some chintzy grounded-grid amplifier when I can build something far superior? I might get electrocuted if I'm not extremely careful. Solution: be extremely careful and follow every last safety guideline. The same goes with making sausage. Even fresh sausages can be poinsonous if you don't handle the meat and casings properly.

Don't get me wrong, Phil: I'm not dismissing the dangers at all. Like I said earlier in the thread, cured sausages are something I will work my way into later, and safety is a good part of the reason for that.

Conversely: if I'm going to go to the supermarket and buy mass-produced sausage, I might as well hang it up right now.

For now, fresh sausage it is, and this weekend will be kielbasa.

--Thom
Keep Away One Zorched Ground Connector

[W5AMI]

Thom, Ill be calling on you soon as I get my grinder this winter or so for some tips.  Always been wanting to do this too.  Nothing like good fresh sausage made the way you want it.

[KA1ZGC]

Thom, Ill be calling on you soon as I get my grinder this winter or so for some tips.  Always been wanting to do this too.  Nothing like good fresh sausage made the way you want it.

By all means, Brian!

Some things you'll want to consider before you start buying stuff: what kind of sausages you want to make, how much you'll want to make in one batch, and how much cash you really want to sink into it.

For batches of 5-10 lbs. or less, you can simply attach stuffing horns to your grinder (without the knife and plate, there's a separate "stuffing star" that goes in place of the plate to support the end of the auger), which is what I'm doing. The grinder I picked up is made by Porkert, which is a czech outfit that makes a Chop-Rite/Enterprise knockoff. Chop-Rite/Enterprise is considered to be "the" brand in grinders. I picked up a #10 grinder because it's the only clamp-on model they make. #12 and larger grinders are bolt-down jobbies. Both #10 and #12 can go through about 2 or 3 lbs. of meat per minute.

The outfit I bought my grinder from is The Sausage Source (http://www.sausagesource.com) in Hillsborough, NH. There are plenty of other outfits as well, and you'll probably find one closer to you if you surf the webrings they're on, but I'm quite pleased with the service I got from them. I opted for a starter kit, which is the grinder, hog casings, stuffing horns, and a few pre-mixed spice packages, for only about $20 more than just the grinder itself.

I also picked up a package of sheep casings, and the owner threw in the appropriate stuffing horn for me to make up for a mistake in the cost of shipping. He also warned me that stuffing sheep casings with a #10 grinder is not going to be at all easy. I didn't ask him to elaborate, though I should have, and I haven't tried it myself yet.

The reason I bring this up is because sheep is typical for breakfast sausage, franks, and things of that size/nature. It's one of those things you'll want to consider when you start shopping for gear.

If you're looking at 10-20 lbs per batch or more, you'll probably want to look at a vertical-press stuffer or a water-feed one.

Take a look at http://www.sausagemania.com for a good run-down of the basics, and take a look at the PDF I referenced early on in the Ted Nugent/Deer Hunting thread (they also have a link to it from sausagemania).

That should be more than enough to get you going on what you'll want to buy. It's no harder to fully equip yourself for short money than it is to go on a mad spending spree.

By then, I'll be a mad sausage-making fool, so certainly give me a holler when you're ready to get stuffing!

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught

[John Holotko]

One of these days I'll build/procure a smoker, but for now I'm going to stick to the fresh sausages. Still trying to make up my mind whether I want to whip up a batch of kielbasa or bratwurst for this weekend.

Best to stick to the fresh sausages. A major hazard with making homemade smoked sausage is botulism. Commercially smoked sausage contains sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate to retard the growth of Clostridium botulinum, the organism that causes botulism. C. botulinum will grow quite well in sausages placed in the warmth of a smoker. The heat of cooking the smoked sausage will not destroy botulinum toxin. At least sixty-five percent of all botulism cases are fatal. The botulinum toxin is tasteless, odorless, and the symptoms of poisoning do not appear for hours after the poison has been absorbed into the bloodstream. Too much nitrite or nitrate is also bad, as both chemicals are poisonous in high doses.

The word "botulism" comes from botulus, the Latin word for "sausage". If you want smoked sausages, get them at the supermarket. Don't gamble with your health!

You raise a good point...be very wary  of botulism.  Matter of fact  the two biggest sources of food botulism these days come from home canning of foods and from homemade sausages and home pickling. And botulism is a horrible type of food  poisioning. Typical  symptoms of food poisioning (i,e, fever, nausea, vomiting, etc...) are not always present. The real symptoms af botulism toxin are gradual paralysis starting from the head on down, including blurred and double vision, loss of eye coordination, dry mouth, inability to swallow, and eventually death from respiratory /heart failure.

I remember back in the 1970's there was a case of botulism poisoning that  stemmed from tainted cans  of Vichysoisse soup produced by a soup company in New Jersey.  One of the first victims was an elderly man who lived and worked right here in the NYC/Westchester  region. It spurred a recall of the soup and the soup  company  never recovered and went out of business. It also caused a panic and many perople were  scared away from buying any  brand of  canned soup for  a long while afterwards. Still and all botulism poisonings from commercially produced foods are rare,  the main problem lies primarilly in home canned/preserved foods.

I can;t remember the name of the affected soup company... it was some French sounding name but I cannot  recall it.
 

[John Holotko]

Red Gravy?? Whats with the "red Gravy" szht, Real Dagos (like myself) simply call it
SAUCE!!  Thats sumptin that you philly boyz thought up!!   I have never made red gravy, gravy goes on meat and smashed potatoes, You put SAUCE on yer pasta!!

That "gravy" thing is also big among Italians in NYC and North Jersey. There, "gravy" means spaghetti sauce. Elsewhere (and among non-Italians), "gravy" is the brown stuff that you put on mashed potatoes and meat.

Dunno bout that...  Part of my family was from the Bronx and 100% as Italian as you can get and they never called it "gravy" they always called it "sauce".  "Gravy"was ther bro0wn stuff that goes on meat and potatoes and "sauce" was the red stuff that goes on spaghetti.

[John Holotko]

One of these days I'll build/procure a smoker, but for now I'm going to stick to the fresh sausages. Still trying to make up my mind whether I want to whip up a batch of kielbasa or bratwurst for this weekend.

Best to stick to the fresh sausages. A major hazard with making homemade smoked sausage is botulism. Commercially smoked sausage contains sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate to retard the growth of Clostridium botulinum, the organism that causes botulism. C. botulinum will grow quite well in sausages placed in the warmth of a smoker. The heat of cooking the smoked sausage will not destroy botulinum toxin. At least sixty-five percent of all botulism cases are fatal. The botulinum toxin is tasteless, odorless, and the symptoms of poisoning do not appear for hours after the poison has been absorbed into the bloodstream. Too much nitrite or nitrate is also bad, as both chemicals are poisonous in high doses.

The word "botulism" comes from botulus, the Latin word for "sausage". If you want smoked sausages, get them at the supermarket. Don't gamble with your health!

You forgot to mention trichinosis.

Botulism and trichinosis are the reasons those sausages are cured first. Sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite are both easily purchased retail. Their use and amounts depends on how the sausages will be processed after they are stuffed into the casing. We've had centuries to get it right, and you'll find there are people all over the planet smoking and/or fermenting and/or drying sausages that are perfectly fine.

Just as an added side note it's true. Manymanypeople all over the world smoke sausage, fish and other foods without incident of botulin or other food poisoning  Just be careful, follow the right procedure and if or when in doubt don't take chances. Using modern day techniques smoking your own stuff is pretty safe.
 

[The Slab Bacon]

Dunno bout that...  Part of my family was from the Bronx and 100% as Italian as you can get and they never called it "gravy" they always called it "sauce".  "Gravy"was ther bro0wn stuff that goes on meat and potatoes and "sauce" was the red stuff that goes on spaghetti.

Well there ya go!!  thatz what I've been sayin all along!

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

Dunno bout that...  Part of my family was from the Bronx and 100% as Italian as you can get and they never called it "gravy" they always called it "sauce".  "Gravy"was ther bro0wn stuff that goes on meat and potatoes and "sauce" was the red stuff that goes on spaghetti.

Well there ya go!!  thatz what I've been sayin all along!

I guess it's a regional thing. In predominantly Italian South Philly it's "gravy". In Northeast Philly,Kensington, Port Richmond,Mayfair, etc, it's "red tomato sauce". In certain places in "Nawt Jerzee", especially around Newark It's "gravee".

What can I say? If it's red tomato sauce,gravy, or whatever, the proof is in the pudding - hi! Good red sauce or gravy is one of my favorite things in life. Call it what you will; just don't call me late for dinner!

Regards,
           Joe N3IBX

[John Holotko]

I can;t remember the name of the affected soup company... it was some French sounding name but I cannot  recall it.

That was the Bon Vivant Company in Newark, New Jersey.

Thanks. Yep, that was it. Isn't that pretty ironic too . In French "Bon Vivant"  means "the good life", or is used to describe one who lives the good life.