The Phillips vs Flathead Dilema

[John Holotko]

Perhaps somebody can explain this phenomenon. Why is it that when one needs a flat head screwdriver they will only find phillips head screwdrivers. And when one needs a philly screwdriver they'll only find flat head screwdrivers ? This is a phenomenon that has plagued me since I can remember. Does this phenomenon have a name ? Perhaps someone can explain it ?

[KB2WIG]

 P.P.P.    piss poor planing   is the syndrone i'm familiar with .....klc

[Jim, W5JO]

John you should subscribe to the 6 P principal.  Proper planning prevents pi** poor performance.

Should you get an more enlightned answer, let me know.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

It's like asking why the buttered side of the bread is always facing down when it hits the floor; why it rains the same day your wax your car; why rush hour is longer than an hour; why we drive on the parkway and park in the driveway......

[KB2WIG]

why thoes  leetle screws always fall into the carborator   ...klc

[WA1GFZ]

I had an insanity screw driver set in the closet for those days when the screw driver type you need are all hiding under your nose.....and the XYL wasn't around to blame.

[N5RLR]

why thoes  leetle screws always fall into the carborator

Or down into the innards of a radio, etc., taking one forever to fish them out.

[The Slab Bacon]

Murphy's law always will out!! (Anything that can go wrong WILL go wrong!!)

                                                        The Slab Bacon

[W2VW]

Leave the screws out next time.

[WA3VJB]

When there's a choice of screws, you'll get screwed.
It's a natural fact.

[The Slab Bacon]

And just when you gots the straight/phillips covered they throw a torque head at ya !

I think Apeman is right ..... leave the screws out.

Hi, Buddly!!

With his new call,W2VW, we cant call him the apeman anymore. I guess we should start calling the bugman?? Isn't that what we used to call VW's? (I guess i'm showing my age)
                                                        The Slab Bacon

[Ed KB1HVS]

Ball Peen Hammer. The universal tool 

[Herb K2VH]

Hey John,

Some years back there was an article in the paper about just what your inquiring about.  The bottom line was GREMLINS.  Why is it that when your'e looking for that ball of string in the kitchen junk drawer all you find is the roll of tape?  How come when you need the hammer, the pliers appears, but when you need the pliers, there's the hammer?  The answer is GREMLINS.  They're the ones that do all the switching around, just to piss us off.

Right now I'm trying to find that article about the gremlins, but the one on bigger petunias keeps popping up  .

vH

[k4kyv]

Actually, there are 3 parts to Murphy's Law:

Nothing is as easy as it looks.

Everything will take longer than you think.

If anything can go wrong it will.

I believe I have a little black hole floating around inside the house and workshop.  Stuff just disappears.  Usually it eventually shows back up, but I regularly have a few things simply vanish off the face of the earth - the Black Hole triumphs again!

My solution is to have plenty of tools.  I never turn down a good tool if I see one at a good price at a flea market.  Over the years I  have accumulated a pretty good collection.  But there is a point of diminishing returns.  The more tools you have, the more tools you have to lose, and the longer it takes to find the one you want.

I understand why surgeons have O.R. techs whose sole job is to keep track of the instruments.  Imagine, right in the middle of heart or brain surgery with blood squirting, the doc stops his procedure: "Where is the $@%@% scapel?"
 
A problem I have with Phillips screws is that they so easily turn into pivot-bearing assemblies if you don't use exactly the correct size.  Actually, Torx screws work better.  From my experience, the driver tip will break before hole rounds out.

Allen-heads are very bad about rounding out.  Bristo (or Bristol if you prefer) heads work better, but drivers are almost impossible to find except by special order.  Never, ever try to turn a Bristo screw with an Allen driver.  This will immediately break off the little splines, and your driver/screw assembly turns into a shaft/bushing assembly. 

It took me months to finally get the kilocycle dial off a 75A-4 because the PO had done just that.  I ended up having to purchase a counter-clockwise drill just the right size to bite into the rounded out hole and remove the screw.  And the screw would turn only after I heated it to soften the green lock-tite Collins puts on their setscrews.  To heat the screw without melting the plastic dial, I homebrewed a long tip to my smallest soldering iron, and then put a drop of heatsink compound on the end of the tip, and inserted the tip in the hole to conduct heat from soldering iron tip to screw.  I used multi-layers of tinfoil as a heat shield to keep from damaging the plastic dial while heating the screw.

It worked.  And I had a  stroke of anti-Murphy's Law.  In my box of tiny screws, I found ONE screw in the entire box that was the correct size and had the correct thread pitch to fit the hole and serve as a  setscrew!

[wavebourn]

It is called The Law Of Bread And Butter.

[WA3VJB]

What's the stripping experience among head types?
I haven't had any experience with torx stuff, but I tell ya, it's at least 10:1 with Phillips heads stripping versus flatheads.

I think it's a plot by the fastener industry.

[ve6pg]

...HAVE YOU GUYS EVER SEEN A ROBERTSON SCREW,AND SCREW DRIVER?...AMAZING...SQUARE RECESS IN THE HEAD OF THE SCREW,AND THE BITS ARE SQUARE AS WELL...YOU WILL HAVE A HELL OF A TIME STRIPPING THESE BABIES...THE SCREW WILL ACTUALLY SIT IN THE 'DRIVER,AS YOU POSITION YOURSELF...VERY COMMON IN CANADA,THE GUY WHO INVENTED THEM,(ROBERTSON) FER SOME REASON NEVER GOT WHIRL-WIDE ATTENTION TO THESE,BUT YOU WILL FIND THEM IN EVERY HARDWARE STORE IN CANADA...FAR MORE PRACTICAL THAN SLOTTED..TAKE ALOT OF TORQUE,AND AVAILABLE IN ALL KINDS OF SHANK LENGTH,AS WELL AS HEAD SIZE...UNIVERSAL(ROUNDED) HEAD,OR COUNTER SUNK....TIM....SK...

[WA3VJB]

Is that what they are called? Robertsons.
Yes, I have seen them as fasteners in the men's room to keep visitors from dismantling the stalls.
Maybe Robertson was inspired as he sat there one time?

[w3jn]

The best fasteners by far are the Zeus fasteners TMC used on covers.  Quarter turn and it unsnaps and the screw is captive so you can't lose it.

[KA1ZGC]

Why is it that when one needs a flat head screwdriver they will only find phillips head screwdrivers. And when one needs a philly screwdriver they'll only find flat head screwdrivers ?

For the same reason a fly will fly in the open half of the window and spend the rest of its life bouncing off the closed half try to get back out.

--Thom
Kilowatt Amplifier One Zero Grid Current

[VE1IDX]

...HAVE YOU GUYS EVER SEEN A ROBERTSON SCREW,AND SCREW DRIVER?...AMAZING...SQUARE RECESS IN THE HEAD OF THE SCREW,AND THE BITS ARE SQUARE AS WELL...YOU WILL HAVE A HELL OF A TIME STRIPPING THESE BABIES...THE SCREW WILL ACTUALLY SIT IN THE 'DRIVER,AS YOU POSITION YOURSELF...VERY COMMON IN CANADA,THE GUY WHO INVENTED THEM,(ROBERTSON) FER SOME REASON NEVER GOT WHIRL-WIDE ATTENTION TO THESE,BUT YOU WILL FIND THEM IN EVERY HARDWARE STORE IN CANADA...FAR MORE PRACTICAL THAN SLOTTED..TAKE ALOT OF TORQUE,AND AVAILABLE IN ALL KINDS OF SHANK LENGTH,AS WELL AS HEAD SIZE...UNIVERSAL(ROUNDED) HEAD,OR COUNTER SUNK....TIM....SK...

There was actually a program on TV the other night about P.L. Robertson and his quest to tie up the world wide market in screw fasteners.His timing was bad as WW 1 was just starting.About the time WW2 started the Phillip's screw was making inroads and although far inferior to the Robertson head it got widely accepted in the US at the time because it was an American that invented it and it was considered good business not to rely on another company/country for a necessary product.Robertson was a Canadian.

[WA3VJB]

The best fasteners by far are the Zeus fasteners TMC used on covers.  Quarter turn and it unsnaps and the screw is captive so you can't lose it.

Zeus are cool, John, you're right.
Kinda like the BNC of sheet metal fasteners.
Used extensively in race cars and aircraft so they must work.

Their shortcoming is length. They can't go but so far before the shaft and spring get unwieldy and perhaps not seat where they are supposed to.

[K1JJ]

Robertson was a Canadian.

Over the years I've been very impressed by the mechanical ability and designs from Canada. I've seen a number of heavy duty projects of various kinds and found they build things strapping up there. They build stuff like Harley quality compared to many nations who settle for throw away riceburners.

Speaking of work ethics - For example, I just received a 1000' spool of coax from a Canadian surplus outfit. They took the time to add twelve, 12" wooden studs as spokes on the reel to beef it up. They added steel straps and also wrapped it in plasdick.   W.J. Ford is the name of the company. Total integrity.  I'm glad Canada is our neighbor - couldn't axe for a better one.  Just think of the many countries of the whirl who are always fighting with theirs.


T

[ve6pg]

...PAUL...THAT WOULD TELL ME THE STALLS ARE MADE IN CANADA...YOU FIND THEM IN APPROX.70 PERCENT OF "STUFF" HERE,FOLLOWED BY PHILLIPS AND SLOTTED....YA GOTTA TRY THEM..!....SK..

[W1RKW]

The screws we use in the Virginia class submarine ship control system are for the most part slotted head screws. We also use some philips screws as well but the steel that's used in both types is harder than the steel used on screwdrivers.  The tech in my department replaces or retips his drivers and regular basis because the ends wear down and end up camming out.