Computer slowing way down - suggestions?

[K1JJ]

Hola,

I wonder if anyone can give me a suggestion...

I have two TWIN Dell 3 ghz computers. Bought within a week of each other. One works perfectly and fast - while the other slows down to a crawl at times.

The slow one boots up and when the intial music plays for Microsoft, it studders, like it is heavily multi-tasking.  When I load other programs, it slows to a crawl at times, taking 30 seconds to load even word perfect, etc. . When I play a video, the music and video sometimes stop, studder and catch up after awhile.

I had a computer tech buddy come over and he swept it for viruses, did the ad aware/spybot sweep, and looked for programs in the register that may be hogging memory, etc. He even compared start-up files of the good Dell with the bad one and could see no red flags, no differences.  He said that he didn't think it was a hardware problem. Both computers have ~250 meg of memory. He gave up. The computer is a turtle at times.

Other than being very slow at times, it runs FB.  Any ideas on what to try?

73,
T

[W2INR]

Hi Tom

The first thing I would recommend is scanning the machine for viruses, worms, spyware, etc.

I use Spykiller, Spybot and AVG. I think Adaware is one also. You need to use more than one and see if they turn up something. Many are free. AVG is and Spybot is. I think I paid for Spykiller but each one finds something the others didn't.

Start there.

Then make sure you have enough RAM to run your apps. The more the better. Consider the Ram on your machine as the antenna system. The more the better and the biggest bang for your buck. You can have a big processor but without adequate RAM to handle your apps it will slow the performance of your machine down.


Check to see you do not have many applications running at the same time or in the background.. You can check that with the task manager on your machine. The task manager will also let you see the system resources at work and how they are effecting the operation of your machine.

Try those three areas first as they are common problems most will have but my money is on the spyware  problem from the symptoms you described.

G

[w3jn]

I got a root kit on my home PC thanks to my 14 YO son who, despite knowing the rules, decided to download some cracked software.  Symptoms were very similar, and this root kit kept calling out to some web site to install even more viruses.  Worse, it disabled Norton Antivirus.

I found it using Blacklight (forget the website but google "root kit blacklight" and you should find it).  Getting rid of it was non-trivial, it involved running Blacklight 4 or 5 times as well as Hijackthis to keep removing the crap the rootkit virus installed in the registry, and using the C:\ prompt in safe mode to manually delete a bunch of files.

Blacklight looks for hidden processes (those that don't show up on Task Mangler) as well as files that don't show up under Explorer (not just files with hidden attributes, but truly hidden files).

73 JOhn

[WA1GFZ]

I found my computer hiv by watching the last line of the task manager. This is the idle line. When the computer is doing nothing it should be under 10% . The number is high means the HIV has taken over. I chased 1 file for a week and finally had to move to the desk top before I could delete it. I have SBC DSL and their hiv chaser gets something a couple times a week.
Internet shitheads with no life are worse  than slop bucketeers.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I wonder if this is one of the Dimension 2400's. Seems I saw some mention of slow down on the Dell Community Board. You might also pose your question there since it's monitored by the Dell Techs and lots of people with computer opinions. I generally gets lots of info there on Dell machines, peripherals, upgrades, do'd and don'ts, etc.

http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums?category.id=dimension

[K1JJ]

Thanks for the info, guys.

Pete, they're both Dell Demented 3000's.

Jeff sent me some ideas and software ideas to try too. I'm installing a pair of new hard drives tonight so that I can back up both computers. So, this will be a good time to do some probing.

It seemed the problem started only two days after I got it. It had not been on the internet at that point. I'll fuss with it and post what happens.

BTW, I haven't been on the air for a while due to focusing on building the six new big rigs, and also starting a new business. Had to pass some difficult broker exams all over again, so real busy. Hope to be back on in a big way when the new rigs start coming on line for debugging...    The rigs are about 80% completed now and I'll post some pics in a few months.  I spread myself around and do a little of everything each day - it adds up over time.

73,
T

[W1UX]

Tom,

If they're 3 ghz computers with current operating systems, 256 meg of memory is really minimal. I'd want to run 1 gigabyte of memory, although 512 meg seems to work fine on a couple of XP machines here.

Your "start" menu on one of the machines might be filled with too many applications all trying to load at startup - in addition to the good suggestions already listed on this thread, you might want to check and keep those at an absolute minimum - you can always fire up any app when you need it. They don't have to load at startup!

GL OM hi hi (telegraphic laugh, telegraphic laugh)
73
Al UX

[K1JJ]

Hi Hi FB, OM Al (Al) "Al" [Al] !

Yes, maybe MO memory will help.  Though, the first computer [twin] works FB with 256M, running similar software. The difference between the two is tremendous.

I just installed and formated the two new drives, so can now  play around with the suggestions here.

BTW, how do youse guys do a FULL mirrored  backup from one drive to the other??? 

I use to use a DOS program called Ghost, but maybe with Win XP there is a way to do it?  It seems when I do a copy/paste, a 10 gig backup goes too slow.

T

[K1JJ]

Here's the applications that show up under task manager. Does anything look suspicious?

Click on the URLs below for  big pictures downlaoded from AMfone.net....

I noticed that the CPU usage chart had occassional spikes that reached up to the top of the chart, whereas, the CPU usage % seemed to hover around 0-3%.

There's some performance stats in the second chart below at the bottom of the chart.

I'm lost trying to figure any more out.

BTW, this data is available by hitting the ctrl-alt-del keys at once on your computer. [at least with my Win XP system]

T

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I would compare the task manager list of files from both machines to see if the same files are there. Since they're on both machines, and one is running good, these files can be ignored for now. It's possible that one of these files might be bad causing the problem, but for now, I would check out the remaining files to see what they do. Maybe an anti-bad file some how slipped in there.

I only back up my data files to a separate external hard drive. All my applications are on the original CD's so it makes no sense  to back up applications and data files. If the original application gets corrupted for whatever reason, I unstalled it, and then reinstall it with the original CD. I also made a boot floppy disk. With the Dell, you can also use the utilities CD to boot to a command prompt. Of course, you would probably have to get into the System options screen at boot up to change the boot sequence.

[n2bc]

XP has a backup program built in.

If you have XP PRO, it is on the CONTROL PANEL / PERFORMANCE & MAINTENANCE

If you have XP HOME or MEDIA, it doesn't automatically get installed (dumb, thanks Mr. Gates! ).  If you have an XP HOME CD, it can be found in directory VALUEADD\MSFT\NTBACKUP

Just run NTBACKUP.MSI and it will install itself and get tagged to the Control Panel as described above.

I suspect that Dell does not provide an XP CD (dumber, thanks Mr Dell! ) - if so, I can Email it to you (775kb)

It's not the best backup/restore in the world but it works and it will completely backup a running system (uses a function called Shadow Copy).  Biggest drawback is that it will not span CD or DVD volumes with the output file.  I usually do the backup to a directory on the hard drive then split that file into DVDable chunks.  Look for a freebie called "Chainsaw" for file splitting.

Back to your original problem...  If it appeared prior to any possibility of infection via the WWW, then I would try swapping the hard drives between the two machines.  The slow machine's drive may be sick, constant recalibrations. Of course swapping the drives moves both the software and the drive but if it doesn't move the problem, you know it's the CPU or motherboard (poor cooling could do it too).

Also, since you just bought new drives... most drive vendors provide utilities to clone the old drive to the new drive.  Clone the suspect C to a new drive, that would prove/eliminate the drive as the source of the slowdown.

Last thing:  I second the thought above... 256MB RAM is barely enough to boot XP any more.  Add an anti-virus, Adobe Acrobat, etc. and things keep getting added to the boot list and suck up memory.  XP will page memory to hardrive like crazy and that is slooooowww.   1GB RAM is $100ish, get one or two...   

Does the machine have video integrated on the motherboard???   If yes, there goes 32 or 64 MB right off the top!

Sorry for the long winded response!

73, Bill  N2BC

[Tom WA3KLR]

I wonder about a high rate of I/O interrupts.  Unplug ALL I/O cables - printer, USB devices, phone line, audio, etc. except for mouse, monitor and keyboard and see what happens.

GL OM.

[K1JJ]

Thanks  agagin for the info guys.

Bill, good info, tnx. Yes, I could use that 775Kb back up file. As you said, Dell does not include the Home XP CD. I couldn't believe it myself. What happens if the system crashes?  Please send it to:  -----------------K1JJ@comcast.net-----------------------------

Yes, Pete, I'll do another comparison between computers. The computer guy did it before, but I'll check again.  There is a lot of stuff in the startup files, but who the heck knows what is needed and not?  These things are still way too complicated for the average user to maintain.

Tom, I'll try disconnecting what you suggested.

73,
T

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Just last week I set up a Dell tower for a friend. The machine came installed with XP home and several applications, utilities, some 90 day Norton stuff and several other trial offers. In the box was included the XP windows CD, a CD with Applications, a CD with utilities, a CD with Dell diagnostics, a CD with all the drivers, a CD for the sound card, a CD for the modem, a CD for the monitor. Besides the Windows CD, you should also have the entire Window CD compressed files installed on your hard drive. Dell has been installing this stuff on the hard drive(the one that comes with the machine) for years.
Even my Gateway laptop, with XP professional installed, also had a bunch of CD's in the box including the XP Pro Windows CD.

[W1RKW]

T,
Right off the bat, determine if you have a hardware problem or not by swapping the HD's.  Since you have identical machines this shouldn't be problem.

[Gary - WA4IAM]

T,
Right off the bat, determine if you have a hardware problem or not by swapping the HD's.  Since you have identical machines this shouldn't be problem.

I agree, that will tell you if the problem follows your hard disk or sticks with the particular pc. If it is the pc itself that remains slow, pop the case and take a look at the system board. A few months back Dell had problems with bad caps on its system boards that it purchased from Abit in Taiwan, and that created all sorts of strange problems. If you see the tops of any of the system board caps starting to bulge then you have a system board with some of the bad caps on it. If so, get Dell tech support to replace it. Abit apparently started playing around with the electrolyte formula of their caps without knowing what they were doing.

[WA1GFZ]

Tom, A cube or should I say cell mate just bought a dell and it came without the CD.
He called them and gave them the P&M what happens when the hard drive dies....
He got them to send him a CD.
We all are getting dual 2.8 GHz  Dell machines here at work and I think with the change from 2K to XP we all feel the machines are slower and we have 1G of ram.

new office 2003 sucks.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Tom, A cube or should I say cell mate just bought a dell and it came without the CD.
He called them and gave them the P&M what happens when the hard drive dies....
He got them to send him a CD.
We all are getting dual 2.8 GHz  Dell machines here at work and I think with the change from 2K to XP we all feel the machines are slower and we have 1G of ram.

new office 2003 sucks.

One of the reasons I stuck with Office 2000. And the Dell machine I mentioned above was bought in October 2005. Not supplying the Windows CD now is really a dumb move unless the intent is to push on-site service contracts.

[K1JJ]

Tom, A cube or should I say cell mate just bought a dell and it came without the CD.
He called them and gave them the P&M what happens when the hard drive dies....
He got them to send him a CD.
We all are getting dual 2.8 GHz  Dell machines here at work and I think with the change from 2K to XP we all feel the machines are slower and we have 1G of ram.

new office 2003 sucks.

Interesting, Frank -

I'll give them a call today and demand a CD.   

OK on the required gig of ram.   I notice that the fast machine's CPU runs at 100% usage all the time when I use my trading program that has a busy server. It still works FB. But the slow machine's CPU's usage  is quite low most of the time, but the machine still studders and acts funky. So maybe it's a matter of more memory rather than CPU overload.

I might pick up some more ram for the slow machine and see what happens.

UPDATE:  I just called Dell and they are sending me the XP Home Edition CD. They said that I didn't check a little box that included this CD and the DELL back up restore CD for an extra $10.      So I will get it "free". Lovely.


T

[wb1aij]

Had a similiar problem with my computer including the slowness & audio stuttering. I would try the easiest fix first, that is defragmenting the hard drives. That worked a couple of times for me. Sped up the computer VERY noticably. One time though I had to reload windows  & that took care of it. Worth a try before spending $$ & taking the critter apart.

[KA8WTK]

Tom,
  Is the hard drive on the slower machine running a lot more than on the faster machine? I know the computer "checks" the memory before it starts, but the memory might be at fault.
  My hard drive on the laptop would just hammer along untill I put more memeory in it. I would try switching the memory sticks in the machines and see if the problem moves with the memory.
  A post above also mentions defragmenting. That is also a good idea.

  Hope you find the problem.

[John K5PRO]

I had a similar problem on this Dell Dimension 4400 a few months ago. It would boot up forever,while my home screen was displayed, the hourglass kept coming on when I tried to start some app, and I think it took over 10 minutes before I could take hold of the thing. My tasks showed something was using 100% CPU during this time.

After checking at work (I get a lot of downloads for antivirus updates there and then install them there and at home) with the corporate IT folks, I discovered that Norton Antivirus (the Symantec Antivirus - SAM) corporate edition had upgraded to 10.01 or something like that, and it was trying to do a complete system scan at startup always on XP. It wouldn't stop. The process could not be killed until it finished. After a few weeks, Symantec released a patch to it, and later updated that version and released a new one. This was apparently the killer app.... Now my PC boots up with somewhat better response and I can use it within a few minutes. I hate the way Gates-soft pretends that it is ready to use, but when you start to open an app, the hourglass shows its really still booting or doing something. What a pile of dung!  My Mac OS10.38 at work boots quick, is done, and i can then go to email or whatever, withouth delay.

Good luck, switch to MAC or Linux if you want to eliminate many PC problems.

[WA1GFZ]

xp does seem to be a pig I thought it was me.
office is just as bad.  Gates needs to clean up his code full of hacks.

[k4kyv]

... just bought a dell and it came without the CD.
He called them and gave them the P&M what happens when the hard drive dies....
He got them to send him a CD.

Mine (a Dell Dimension 8250) came with a CD labelled as follows:

Reinstallation CD
Micro$oft Windows XP Home Edition
Including Service Pack 1

Only use this CD to reinstall the operating system on a Dell computer.  This CD is not for reinstallation of programs or drivers.

I am not sure if it contains a full-blown copy of Windows XP or if this is a "restore" CD.

Does anyone know a quick way to tell?

I have had this box for about 3 years with no major problems.  In the whole time, I think I have had a "blue screen of death" one or two times.

With my old Win95 machine, I had to reinstall the OS a couple of times, and I was getting blue screens and "Illegal operation" error messages nearly daily before the HDD finally crapped out in the thing (good riddance).  Luckily I had just finished transferring all my data to the new computer before the old one died.

[wa1knx]

hi Tom,
       finally in here again. reading through the posts, I agree with tom and others,
swap the drives to verify if its software or hardware, because it seems like hardware to me  - clue one is the choppy sound. second clue, if your fast computers shows lots of cpu usage, and the slow one doesn't - then what T F is the slow cpu waiting for, as it obviously has work queued to the run on the cpu. ? answer, it may not be able be in run state. maybe bus problems, some device tossing piles of interrupts for it to chew  through.

deano!