gas mileage

[WA1GFZ]

My Dad has a Mercury G.M. a year or so old. The past month or so he has noticed the gas mileage go down a couple points and combined with the price of gas sent him to his mechanic. They checked it out and found mothing. His guy is very sharp.
He suggested putting a can of injector cleaner in the tank to see what happens. $10 bucks later gas mileage back to normal.
I've notice the same thing over the past year with my truck so plan to do the same thing. I was getting 19 to 21 and now about 18.5 MPG.

[w1guh]

If you're filling up where there's ethanol in the gas, that's probably the problem.  That can cause milage to go down about as much as you report.  I've got the same thing going for me filling up here by work in Fairfield County, CT.  Maybe I'll drive to Jersey for gas, I don't think they're doing it over across the river.

Paul

[WA1GFZ]

Paul,
That is what I thought my problem was until my Dad told me his story.
I lived in L.A. back in the early '80 when they sold gasahol. The mileage went down but there was no ping. Corn smash has less energy per volume so the motor needs a richer mixture to make the same power. The advantage is it will run leaner under light load and not knock.
I think it is worth the 3 bucks to give it a try.

[W2JBL]

   Frank- a few tips on the care and feeding of the 4.6L Ford motor in your Dad's Merc- i have a super clean North Carloina Trooper (1998 Crown Vic Interceptor) car that has had a history of horrible mileage with no computer fault codes showing, and recently beat the problem. i was getting 10MPG city/20MPG highway before the fixes. take the mass air flow meter out of it's plastic shell in the air intake box and spray it with a freon or alcohol contact cleaner- the hot wire sensor gets poluted with road salt and dirt. then install a fresh high quality air filter. doing this got me to 17 city/25-28 highway. keep a good set of the CORRECT Ford/Autolite spark plugs in there too. beware of the HVAC system- the position for "MIX" on the heat side of the knob runs the A/C compressor to give "dry heat"- it's a mileage killer. use the "overdrive cancel" button on the shift lever- lugging a 280 cubic inch motor in a 3800 pound sled around town at 30MPH in overdrive uses tons of gas. save overdrive for 50 and up driving. injector cleaner (as you learned) every 20,000 miles helps too. inflating the 225/60/16 tires to 38 pounds is also worth about 1-2MPG , with better handling. see if you can find a friendly dealer to flash the car's computer with the latest software, as there have been MANY updates since 2003.
happy motoring
DE
KD2XA

[W1RKW]

Mass Air Flow sensor definitely keep clean and replace the plugs and wires.  My 4.0L Ranger does the same thing.  Air filter is a must too.  I've noticed in the Ranger when the air filter starts heading for the pearly gates oil consumption begins to increase.  Haven't figured that one out yet.

[Ed W1XAW]

   Frank- a few tips on the care and feeding of the 4.6L Ford motor in your Dad's Merc- i have a super clean North Carloina Trooper (1998 Crown Vic Interceptor) car that has had a history of horrible mileage with no computer fault codes showing, and recently beat the problem. i was getting 10MPG city/20MPG highway before the fixes. take the mass air flow meter out of it's plastic shell in the air intake box and spray it with a freon or alcohol contact cleaner- the hot wire sensor gets poluted with road salt and dirt. then install a fresh high quality air filter. doing this got me to 17 city/25-28 highway. keep a good set of the CORRECT Ford/Autolite spark plugs in there too. beware of the HVAC system- the position for "MIX" on the heat side of the knob runs the A/C compressor to give "dry heat"- it's a mileage killer. use the "overdrive cancel" button on the shift lever- lugging a 280 cubic inch motor in a 3800 pound sled around town at 30MPH in overdrive uses tons of gas. save overdrive for 50 and up driving. injector cleaner (as you learned) every 20,000 miles helps too. inflating the 225/60/16 tires to 38 pounds is also worth about 1-2MPG , with better handling. see if you can find a friendly dealer to flash the car's computer with the latest software, as there have been MANY updates since 2003.
happy motoring
DE
KD2XA

I bought an 03 Mercury GM about five weeks ago and absolutely love the thing.  For my needs it seems just about perfect but I'll havetry driving in the snow before it gets the final stamp of approval.  My model has some sort of traction control.  I have been getting 25 highway and 19-20 in mixed driving.  I'v heard of folks getting about 28 mpg on highway but I haven't managed a long enough trip just right.  Do you know if the 03 has the same air cleaner?  I have to figure out the climate control as I suspect it runs mostly with the AC so I keep it off if its not too hot inside. 

Ed

[Ed KB1HVS]

Mass Air Flow sensor definitely keep clean and replace the plugs and wires.  My 4.0L Ranger does the same thing.  Air filter is a must too.  I've noticed in the Ranger when the air filter starts heading for the pearly gates oil consumption begins to increase.  Haven't figured that one out yet.

 Sometimes  a good cleaning is all it needs. On my wife's VW Jetta the idiot light came on and she pulled into a "reputable" garage and wanted to charge her 285 dollars to replace the sensor. Fortunately she called me before she let them do it. She brought the car home and I removed the boot containing the sensor and gave it a good cleaning. Replaced and "look ma no light". Ran better too. Goons at the garage still charged her 50 bux for the pleasure of hooking up thier machine to locate the problem.

[WA1GFZ]

ED,
I'm a GM guy and my Dad drove GM since his 53 nash but I have to say the
merc is the nicest car on the road. I rented one the last time I went to Texas
and bombed around with 3 other guys for a week. The gas mileage is great and a full frame makes it nice and tight. My Dad has no problem in the snow
and has the traction control thing. A real car.

[W1UJR]

My Dad has a Mercury G.M. a year or so old. The past month or so he has noticed the gas mileage go down a couple points and combined with the price of gas sent him to his mechanic. They checked it out and found mothing. His guy is very sharp.
He suggested putting a can of injector cleaner in the tank to see what happens. $10 bucks later gas mileage back to normal.
I've notice the same thing over the past year with my truck so plan to do the same thing. I was getting 19 to 21 and now about 18.5 MPG.

That $10 can of injector cleaner cures more that you would believe, if you use the correct product. Some of the cleaners sold over the counter at auto part stores will actually damage the o-ring seals in the European imports. Bosch had a notice about this a few years ago. Now considering that Bosch makes or licences its product to domestic auto companies, you might want to check twice.

LubroMoly products, or Chevron are excellent, we use those as part of the scheduled maintenance program in our workshop. Interestingly we rarely experience fuel system failures. Is the $10 can of cleaner, I'd like to think so.

The cleaner really serves two functions:
1) Cleans the injector nozzles so they spray well, poorly atomized fuel is the prime culprit when a injector nozzle is dirty. Dirty nozzles also tend to leak or drip fuel when they should be closed.

2) Cleans the back of the intake valves. Its very common on cars to build up a layer of carbon and soot on the back of the intake valves. Aside from disrupting air flow, the carbon serves as a sponge to soak up fuel, creating a lean condition, esp. on accel. Car leans out, HO2 sensor tries to compensate. creating an over rich condition.



Another trick as Ed HVS mentioned, is to carefully clean the intake system, esp. the throttle body. You would be amazed at the stuff that builds up here. Causes all kinds of problems, rough idle, stalling, even MIL - Check Engine light. Be careful cleaning the air mass sensor, some will not survive a direct blast from an aerosol can.

More propaganda at http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/nafl/auto/content/fueladd.shtm

[WA1GFZ]

Bruce,
I heard cheap gas does not have the same level of cleaning compounds to keep injectors flowing properly. My Dad usually uses cheap 87 gas in his car.
I heard it is good to use good gas now and then. I suppose leaking injectors
was the problem and the system compensated making the exhaust clean.
This causees injector timing change to mess up mileage. Water injection is an old timers trick to claen valves. then there is marvel mystery oil.
my Dad demonstrated that stuff to me years ago when my '60 poncho had a stuck valve. We filled the neighborhood with smoke but the head stayed on the motor. I bet marvel would be ok on valve seals compared to a HD solvent.

[W1UJR]

Bruce,
I heard cheap gas does not have the same level of cleaning compounds to keep injectors flowing properly. My Dad usually uses cheap 87 gas in his car.
I heard it is good to use good gas now and then. I suppose leaking injectors
was the problem and the system compensated making the exhaust clean.
This causees injector timing change to mess up mileage. Water injection is an old timers trick to claen valves. then there is marvel mystery oil.
my Dad demonstrated that stuff to me years ago when my '60 poncho had a stuck valve. We filled the neighborhood with smoke but the head stayed on the motor. I bet marvel would be ok on valve seals compared to a HD solvent.

Hi Frank,
Missed you on GHN this week, may have turned the RX off early.

The fuel thing used to be true back in the 80s and early 90s.
BMW, and others, had a huge problem with carbon deposits on the intake valves because of the lack of detergent additives in fuel.

In fact, the drivability problems were so severe that the Germans came up with a machine - and this is no joke - that used crushed walnut shells to blast the back of the intake valves clean.
The service tech removed the intake manifold and connected what looked like a large vacuum cleaner hose to each intake port on the head.
The camshaft was rotated to be certain the valve being blasted was closed.
Walnut shells were then blasted under pressure againsit the back of the intake valves to clean them and the remains suctioned off.

I've also heard that rice works, water does as well on soft deposits.
Hard deposits can really be cleaned only by a manual process, OTC chems or additives just don't do the trick.
LubroMoly made a chem product, "Ventil Sauber", which was designed to clean carbon deposits once in place, but I always prefered the proactive approach.

Now most of the major fuel lines, of all grades, have degerent additives.
Perhaps the higher grades have more or a beter additives, or pehraps that is just marketing hype.

[WA1GFZ]

Bruce,
Ant still broken and stuck in the trees so can't TX. Hope we get some wind
this weekend and shake it loose or snap the other side. Need to get the feed line back with the johnsom spreaders. I paid .55 each for them as a JN.
Walnut shells are used in electronics as a form of sand blaster to remove board coatings before repairs. We use this stuff called paralyne that hardens like mylar. I thought the government required a certain amount of additive to gas to keep fuel injection parts working. Carbon on the back of the intake valve is a big deal. I've ported a number of heads based on deposits. No deposit remove metal because slow air flow where there is carbon built up.
I was a poor boy with Dad's drill but it worked.
I'm sure good gas mileage requires the squirt from the injector happens at the correct time. Leakage would slow down the squirt and not evaporate
in time for the big bang.
Germans have been playing with injection a bit longer than us so know how to maintain the system.

[W1RKW]

A typical symptom of a leaky injector is hard starting caused by cylinder flooding.  Typical of worn injectors on high mileage cars and/or deposits on the injectors.  It's important to have them cleaned so they close as fuel can accumulate in the crankcase and that's not a good thing.

[W1UJR]

Bruce,
Ant still broken and stuck in the trees so can't TX. Hope we get some wind
this weekend and shake it loose or snap the other side. Need to get the feed line back with the johnsom spreaders. I paid .55 each for them as a JN.

Didn't know about the antenna crapout.
I love wire antennas and knock on CopperWeld, both of my 160 meter dipoles have withstood some major windstorms.

On to the insulators.
I was at a radio meet in Maine earlier this year and spied a container of the Johnson spreaders.
I grabbed a couple of dozen of them, think they would be cool for the antenna project.
The seller said $5 and I handed a $5 bill.
He wanted $5 each.
Yikes.
Needless to say I passed and bought the W7FG feedline.

[WA1GFZ]

The ant has been up since '83 so can't complain. I have the 4 inch spreaders every 30 inches on #10 magnet wire. ant is Dual strand #10.

the support ends have grown into tree crotches so need to break it free.
You can find spreader deals out there as long as I don't spot them first. I bought a big handful for $10 a while ago. they will be used at the beach.

They look cool and will still take power with ice. The only time you can't operate is when there is melting water under the ice against the spreader.

I bought my spreaders back in the '60s

[Ed KB1HVS]

My Dad has a Mercury G.M. a year or so old. The past month or so he has noticed the gas mileage go down a couple points and combined with the price of gas sent him to his mechanic. They checked it out and found mothing. His guy is very sharp.
He suggested putting a can of injector cleaner in the tank to see what happens. $10 bucks later gas mileage back to normal.
I've notice the same thing over the past year with my truck so plan to do the same thing. I was getting 19 to 21 and now about 18.5 MPG.

That $10 can of injector cleaner cures more that you would believe, if you use the correct product. Some of the cleaners sold over the counter at auto part stores will actually damage the o-ring seals in the European imports. Bosch had a notice about this a few years ago. Now considering that Bosch makes or licences its product to domestic auto companies, you might want to check twice.

LubroMoly products, or Chevron are excellent, we use those as part of the scheduled maintenance program in our workshop. Interestingly we rarely experience fuel system failures. Is the $10 can of cleaner, I'd like to think so.

The cleaner really serves two functions:
1) Cleans the injector nozzles so they spray well, poorly atomized fuel is the prime culprit when a injector nozzle is dirty. Dirty nozzles also tend to leak or drip fuel when they should be closed.

2) Cleans the back of the intake valves. Its very common on cars to build up a layer of carbon and soot on the back of the intake valves. Aside from disrupting air flow, the carbon serves as a sponge to soak up fuel, creating a lean condition, esp. on accel. Car leans out, HO2 sensor tries to compensate. creating an over rich condition.



Another trick as Ed HVS mentioned, is to carefully clean the intake system, esp. the throttle body. You would be amazed at the stuff that builds up here. Causes all kinds of problems, rough idle, stalling, even MIL - Check Engine light. Be careful cleaning the air mass sensor, some will not survive a direct blast from an aerosol can.

More propaganda at http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/nafl/auto/content/fueladd.shtm

 Yep. I was warned ahead of time to be careful about the spray. Worked out very nice. Im stll going to buy one of those analizers Bill GF posted. Looks like a handy tool.

[Ed KB1HVS]

ED,
I'm a GM guy and my Dad drove GM since his 53 nash but I have to say the
merc is the nicest car on the road. I rented one the last time I went to Texas
and bombed around with 3 other guys for a week. The gas mileage is great and a full frame makes it nice and tight. My Dad has no problem in the snow
and has the traction control thing. A real car.

 Ok on GM. I like the Impala SS they came out with a few years ago. Nice one for sale here in town but they want much$$.  Ill drive pretty much anything but its nice to have a full frame mule. I also own a Ford Focus 02. Peppy and drives well but no full frame for sure. My daughter is getting her drivers license soon and she has been spying a  Black 97 Crown Vic!

[WA1GFZ]

My dad traded in a '97 for his new Merc GM. I wish i could have bought it

[AJ1G]

There has been some discussion of late on the alt.auto.ford usenet re use of 87 octane in late model Ford V8s.  The consensus is that people who had previously been running them on 93 octane got much better performance, and better MPG on 87 octane.  The engines reportedly were designed to run best on the low octane stuff, and the slower burning hi test had poorer combustion efficiency, and problems with carbon buildup in the combustion chambers.

Bruce, UJR, you might be interested to knoiw that I have been running 87 vs 93 octane in my 98 Volvo V70XC 2.5 Turbo lately.  My MPG has improved quite a bit, from 23 to 26-27 on the highway, and 18 to 20-22 around town.  Seems to have a little bit less scrot when really booting it, no doubt due to the engine management system limiting advance and boost at the lower octane, but for long runs down the highway the 87 will save more than a few bucks.  Lots of folks on Volvo and XC forums commented that they have been running 87 octane, which is the minimum octane recommended for these engnes, and getting better MPG than with 91-93 juice that Volvo recommends "for best performance".

[W1UJR]

Bruce, UJR, you might be interested to knoiw that I have been running 87 vs 93 octane in my 98 Volvo V70XC 2.5 Turbo lately.  My MPG has improved quite a bit, from 23 to 26-27 on the highway, and 18 to 20-22 around town.  Seems to have a little bit less scrot when really booting it, no doubt due to the engine management system limiting advance and boost at the lower octane, but for long runs down the highway the 87 will save more than a few bucks.  Lots of folks on Volvo and XC forums commented that they have been running 87 octane, which is the minimum octane recommended for these engnes, and getting better MPG than with 91-93 juice that Volvo recommends "for best performance".

Interesting indeed Chris, I don’t doubt you one bit of course, but it actually seems somewhat counterintuitive.
A gallon of fuel is a gallon of fuel, and if the engine can extract more power from than gallon, it should produce better fuel mileage.
This is especially true on a car like your XC, with its turbocharged and intercooled controlled engine, controlled by a rather sophisticated powertrain management system; it can really take advantage of the higher octane fuels to produce a higher engine output and power from the same amount of fuel.
Of course octane is a measure of how well a fuel resists premature combustion, or “knocking.”
So in theory, your Volvo engine should be more efficient using a higher octane fuel.
Gasoline with too low an octane rating for application converts fuel to heat rather than power, making for less efficient fuel usage.

Guess I am somewhat skeptical on fuel mileage claims.
Fuel economy can vary significantly with the ambient air temperature and humidity, tire pressure, and load.
Of course on the Volvo you have the onboard computer to calculate that, much more accurate than the notepad and gas gauge approach.

How did you make out running the wiring for the mobile rig?
Did you find the OEM connector or use the firewall route?

[Art]

2 identical trips from Harrisburg, PA to Ft. Collins hauling stuff. . . #1 usual oil, 32psi, not new but clean air filter. 14.2MPG (ya I know, its a hog) . ..  #2 35psi, free flow ayah cleaner, synthetic oil. 15.9. . . . a 10% increase which saved about what it cost to do . . .
I was wondering if running higher octane would yield more mpg and if the cost increase would merit switching. . . 'guess I'll check next time . . . 1600mi trips provide excellent tests . . .

-ap

[WA1GFZ]

My 2001 silverado runs on anything but 87 pings a bit, 89 best mileage for the money, 93 best performance but no increase in mileage. I usually throw in 93 when traveling to Hostraders up VT Rt 9 due to the hills. I found the truck down shifts less times on better gas but the mileage is about the same.
I also throw in a can of marvel mystery oil now and then because I'm old fashion.  Mobile 1 has always been used in this motor. When it was still tight I gained about 1/2 MPG Who knows what it is doing after 70K.

[w3jn]

I'd bet the reason 87 octane in the Vulva Turbo is yielding better mileage is that the computer is dialling back the boost and retarding the spark a bit to compensate for the lower octane fuel.  Most turbo engines have knock sensors (little microphoniums in the engine block or head) and if knock is detected the computer compensates so the engine doesn't self-destruct.

THis has NOTHING to do with the energy contained in the fuel.  IIRC 87 octane contains the same BTUs as 93 octane - the difference is susceptibility to pre-detonation.

[WA1GFZ]

True but the new gas with 10% corn smash contains less BTU than 100% gas. The motor will knock less and make less strappage until mixture is make richer. i've always wondered if the dynamic range of the fuel control system
takes advantage of the corn smash at light load to run even leaner to maintain gas mileage. At some point you get misfire but i wonder how close the new systems come to that point.
One wonders with these sensors like knock and O2 do the car Co.s have the software talent or desire to improve gas mileage?
Efficiency seems poor to me. 

[W1UJR]

I'd bet the reason 87 octane in the Vulva Turbo is yielding better mileage is that the computer is dialling back the boost and retarding the spark a bit to compensate for the lower octane fuel.  Most turbo engines have knock sensors (little microphoniums in the engine block or head) and if knock is detected the computer compensates so the engine doesn't self-destruct.

THis has NOTHING to do with the energy contained in the fuel.  IIRC 87 octane contains the same BTUs as 93 octane - the difference is susceptibility to pre-detonation.

Exactly, excellent explaination OM.
ECU retards timing due to spark knock - poor econ, where as with advanced timing/boost, better econ.

Many engines can not take adv of the higher octane fuel, the XC turbo can do so and mine does seem to run better on high test fuel.

The weekend is here, yea!!!