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VE1IDX
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« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2005, 09:29:43 PM »

Sheeeeesh we don't even import any of our oil from the Gulf of Mexico region and our gas prices took a hit today.$1.199 a liter for self serve regular.That's $5.44 per Imperial gallon,about $4.35 for a US gallon.I see parts of Alabama around Atlanta had hit $6.00 a gallon.That is just plain insane.
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Art
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« Reply #101 on: September 01, 2005, 07:35:48 AM »

Good points . . . the US imports in the vicinity of 20% of our oil from the middle east yet every time there is instability gas goes up way out of proportion. We all know there are gas station owners who take advantage of the situation disproportionately but they get what's coming to them . . . while driving back from Ft. Collins I needed gas and pulled into a small town in IN . . . $2.79/gal . . . in a snapshot in time when $2.55 was expected . . . I turned around and ran on the last 1/4 until I got to Indy and $2.48/gal gas . . . I have no doubt those same ops are charging $3/gal right now . . .

There will always be opportunists and I have mixed feelings about them . . . it's their gas until and unless I buy it . . .

What's happening is speculators are seriously impacting oil futures. The mechanism that is supposed to moderate the price to consumers is not working exactly as designed . . .

-ap
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Art
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« Reply #102 on: September 01, 2005, 12:31:21 PM »

30M gallons (and more every minute)  of gasoline has been taken off the market because of the hurricane and our demand remains the same . . . and we are surprised the price is going up??? ECON-101 . . .

This falls directly on the heads of the tree huggers, nimbys, and liberal twits. We were at 95% capacity utilization in refining and 99% consumption of imported oil. . . . in good times, in a growing economy. An interruption in the flow is *guaranteed* to cause price increases. A disaster is *guaranteed* to bring huge jumps.

We now have Billery calling for congressional investigation of price gouging by gas station owners.
Sen. Nelson calling for price freezes, alcohol mixed fuels, and hybrids. This is the same fine legislator that has filibustered against oil drilling in the gulf. He wants to make sure no one is able to drill for oil going forward.
Sen Schumer warns this will lead to more drilling in the gulf.
Sen Blumenthal blaming the current administration because of the 2001 tax cuts.

35 years of energy production distruption . . . nuclear, oil drilling, gasoline refining . . . and we are surprised at the cost of gas at the pumps???

IMO I have never seen such an immediate and impressive display of ignorance.

-ap


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Paul, K2ORC
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« Reply #103 on: September 01, 2005, 01:02:25 PM »

I never thought I'd think back fondly on $2.65 gallon gas.   Tongue

In Binghamton, NY area this morning, 87 octane anywhere from $2.899 (a Hess station in Binghamton) to $3.159 (a Citgo station in Endicott).  The  Kwik Fill in Johnson City, usually one of the cheapest places for gas in the area, was $2.959 this morning.   
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W1RKW
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« Reply #104 on: September 01, 2005, 01:07:12 PM »

The local Citgo here in Colchester, CT changed the price from $2.74 from yesterday evening to $2.79 at 7AM this morning after a fuel delivery.  I went into town again later in the AM to pick up some groceries and watched the attendant jack the price up another $0.20 to $2.99 though no fuel delivery. One has to wonder. The Mobil Station further up is at $3.09 yet another Mobil is still sitting at $2.77.
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Bob
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« Reply #105 on: September 01, 2005, 01:12:24 PM »

30M gallons (and more every minute)  of gasoline has been taken off the market because of the hurricane and our demand remains the same . . . and we are surprised the price is going up??? ECON-101 . . .

This falls directly on the heads of the tree huggers, nimbys, and liberal twits. We were at 95% capacity utilization in refining and 99% consumption of imported oil. . . . in good times, in a growing economy. An interruption in the flow is *guaranteed* to cause price increases. A disaster is *guaranteed* to bring huge jumps.

We now have Billery calling for congressional investigation of price gouging by gas station owners.
Sen. Nelson calling for price freezes, alcohol mixed fuels, and hybrids. This is the same fine legislator that has filibustered against oil drilling in the gulf. He wants to make sure no one is able to drill for oil going forward.
Sen Schumer warns this will lead to more drilling in the gulf.
Sen Blumenthal blaming the current administration because of the 2001 tax cuts.

35 years of energy production distruption . . . nuclear, oil drilling, gasoline refining . . . and we are surprised at the cost of gas at the pumps???

IMO I have never seen such an immediate and impressive display of ignorance.

-ap




I've never understood the point of congressional investigations especially with something such as this.  Is an investigation really gonna fix this problem? I doubt it.  I think it's fair to say most of us already know the answer to the problem. 
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Bob
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Art
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« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2005, 01:50:01 PM »

"I've never understood the point of congressional investigations especially with something such as this.  Is an investigation really gonna fix this problem? I doubt it.  I think it's fair to say most of us already know the answer to the problem. "

. . . what you have noticed is a party that is not interested in solutions . . . only objections and opposition to the current administration . . . no ageda otherwise and willing to use any tragedy to advance their position . . . anything rather than do the actual work of a party . . . that is, come up with their own platform and sell the positive aspects of it to a public that would be very willing to listen.

We know the answer to this problem in the future. The solution to  now is time and conservation to hold out until the fuel supply is restored. Hopefully we will be smarter going forward . . . if not, the lessons of history become the lessons of the future.

New Cumberland, PA $3.209 at 8AM and counting . . .


-ap
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VE1IDX
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« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2005, 03:08:08 PM »

New day and a new price. $1.289 per liter here today. Cry  That's $5.85 per Imperial gallon or $4.68 per US gallon. Angry
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« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2005, 03:14:09 PM »

New day and a new price. $1.289 per liter here today. Cry  That's $5.85 per Imperial gallon or $4.68 per US gallon. Angry

Just out of curiosity where does Canada get their fuel from? Is it imported (or some of it) across the border from the states?
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Bob
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« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2005, 03:42:29 PM »

I use to buy gas at the Citco station in Colchester then greed set in so I pass by. Best prices in Vernon  Rt 83 usually a dime or so cheaper.
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« Reply #110 on: September 01, 2005, 03:53:44 PM »

Art said:
Quote
This falls directly on the heads of the tree huggers, nimbys, and liberal twits.

You got that right Art. The environmental hoops we have to jump through and the millions of dollars laid out for emissions, and incinerators is outrageous! MACT, SPACC, RACC, and an assortment of other acronyms. Then people wonder why it cost so much for perscription drugs in the US. Let alone liabilities like the VIOXX fiasco, (along with my retirement in the basement).
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2005, 04:15:34 PM »

Mike,
Take a deep breath. Some regulations are necessary and it isn't the tree hugger's fault. It is the poluter's fault. Remember acid rain. I lived in LA for a while and that is the home of poor air quality in the back of the valley.
The party line is blame someone else enough times until the public buys the lie.
Drugs, turn on the TV and you will see why the price is so high. Ask you doctor how many pushers visited him this week. Just ask your doctor.
Why is all this crap on the market and why are there so many problems.
Who is minding the store down in the beltway. We pay taxes to support the agency to keep an eye on the drug pushers. All I see is new reasons to take pills. Where is quality control. Lawyers and insurance company Lawyers sure one thing in mind and it isn't quality.
We can do a better job but who cares when you can cheat. We could burn clean coal electric plants. We have one here in southern Ma.
We will be third world if we don't change soon.   
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W3SLK
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« Reply #112 on: September 01, 2005, 04:37:36 PM »

Frank said:
Quote
We will be third world if we don't change soon.

Frank, ever wonder why all those jobs are going over seas? Companies just don't have the where-with-all to fight environment regs here in the states. So they seek refuge in those third world countries because: 1)Labor is cheap; 2)No EPA to deal with; 3)Governments are corrupt, a greased palm goes a long way!. Now for quality control, all they have to do is demonstrate to the FDA that they are following cGMP's. In other words they have to do what they say the do in a clean environment, (at least while the FDA is there). As an instrument mechanic, it is my duty to make sure all our process instrumentation is within spec as well as environmentally in tolerance. I do about 3 thousand (yes that is correct) inspections a quarter and at least one hour is dedicated to filling out paper work. That's how it works at the big teal hourglass. No ask yourself again why drugs cost so much in the US.
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
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Ed Nesselroad
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« Reply #113 on: September 01, 2005, 05:28:39 PM »

If I recall correctly, there was a saying in the early 1970's that, "We'd have solar energy if oil companies owned the sun."  Perhaps there's some relationship to hurricanes...
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John Holotko
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« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2005, 05:41:39 PM »

Frank said:
Quote
We will be third world if we don't change soon.

Frank, ever wonder why all those jobs are going over seas? Companies just don't have the where-with-all to fight environment regs here in the states. So they seek refuge in those third world countries because: 1)Labor is cheap; 2)No EPA to deal with; 3)Governments are corrupt, a greased palm goes a long way!

And do you consider that a good thing or a bad thing ?? Why shouldn't  coorporations be held to specific standards regarding labor, working conditions, pay wages ? Why shouldn't corporations be held to standards with regards to protecting our environemnt, our air and water from toxic contamination and pollution, our wetlands and forests from over delvelopment, excissive mining,  foresting, etc. ?? The very reason that labor laws were adopted in this country is because prior to the adoption of labor laws workers were routinely exploited, forced to work excessive hours with low wages under often hazardous sweatshop conditions.   Once we trash the environment we loose our quality of life, our health, and once we loose our health we have nothing. Why should we  have to lower our standards to appease corporations so they don't run off into third world countries, trash theirt environments and exploit their labor in the name of maximizing profits. What we need to do is level the playing field by RAISING the standards under which corporations operate in third world nations.



. Now for quality control, all they have to do is demonstrate to the FDA that they are following cGMP's. In other words they have to do what they say the do in a clean environment, (at least while the FDA is there). As an instrument mechanic, it is my duty to make sure all our process instrumentation is within spec as well as environmentally in tolerance. I do about 3 thousand (yes that is correct) inspections a quarter and at least one hour is dedicated to filling out paper work. That's how it works at the big teal hourglass. No ask yourself again why drugs cost so much in the US.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #115 on: September 01, 2005, 06:33:38 PM »

New day and a new price. $1.289 per liter here today. Cry  That's $5.85 per Imperial gallon or $4.68 per US gallon. Angry

Is that $US or $CAN?
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Art
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« Reply #116 on: September 01, 2005, 06:52:08 PM »

"Why shouldn't corporations be held to standards with regards to protecting our environemnt, our air and water from toxic contamination and pollution, our wetlands and forests from over delvelopment, excissive mining,  foresting, etc. ??"

Because the regulations are extreme and inhibit growth and independence. That's what this gasoline problem is about. There is a balance to be struck and you can't have it all. I was in LA when the air was so thick it seemed like you could cut it . . . 'could barely see the other side of Chavez ravine . . . however, no one is proposing building a refinery or nuke plant in the hollywood hills or glendale . . they are proposing drilling off the coast. . .  highly unlikely to affect the air or sea quality.
IMO - If you support the fine Sen from FL, the NY wench, or the CA bobsy twins, you have no right to bitch about the high cost of gas. You are the cause. (not you specifically John . .  I sense you have more on the ball than to support such . . . stuff.)

-ap
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W3SLK
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« Reply #117 on: September 01, 2005, 06:53:06 PM »

John said:
Quote
And do you consider that a good thing or a bad thing ?? Why shouldn't  coorporations be held to specific standards regarding labor, working conditions, pay wages ? Why shouldn't corporations be held to standards with regards to protecting our environemnt, our air and water from toxic contamination and pollution, our wetlands and forests from over delvelopment, excissive mining,  foresting, etc. ??

But this is the rub John, you can't have your cake and eat it too! People bitch that jobs are going over seas. I agree there has to be some regulation but not STRANGULATION[/i]! That's what is happening. Corporations are finding manufacturing climates to their liking and they are going there.
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
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GEORGE/W2AMR
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« Reply #118 on: September 01, 2005, 07:39:13 PM »

Frank said:
Quote
We will be third world if we don't change soon.

Frank, ever wonder why all those jobs are going over seas? Companies just don't have the where-with-all to fight environment regs here in the states. So they seek refuge in those third world countries because: 1)Labor is cheap; 2)No EPA to deal with; 3)Governments are corrupt, a greased palm goes a long way!. Now for quality control, all they have to do is demonstrate to the FDA that they are following cGMP's. In other words they have to do what they say the do in a clean environment, (at least while the FDA is there). As an instrument mechanic, it is my duty to make sure all our process instrumentation is within spec as well as environmentally in tolerance. I do about 3 thousand (yes that is correct) inspections a quarter and at least one hour is dedicated to filling out paper work. That's how it works at the big teal hourglass. No ask yourself again why drugs cost so much in the US.
Yep that's all we need. Have our workers take more pay cuts, get rid of whats left of clean air regs,  maybe we can  cut the grunts benefits again . We already took away health care benefits. Maybe we can get rid of those paid vacations next. Keep um on the job so they can compete. 
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VE1IDX
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« Reply #119 on: September 01, 2005, 08:26:33 PM »

New day and a new price. $1.289 per liter here today. Cry  That's $5.85 per Imperial gallon or $4.68 per US gallon. Angry

Just out of curiosity where does Canada get their fuel from? Is it imported (or some of it) across the border from the states?

Actually western Canada exports TO the U.S.A. and eastern canada imports from overseas.It is cheaper to supply a low population area here by tanker than by trans-continental pipeline.At last count Canada imports only about 20% of our crude oil needs.Most of that comes from Venezuela and Nigeria.We get small amounts from the Middle East and the North Sea.I think the big problem is refinery capacity.What really burns me is that there is a refinery less than 50 miles away from me in Halifax and another really larg one in Saint John New Brunswick and the Irving refinery,in Saint John, sends a lot of refined gas to New England for cheaper than we can buy it here for. Angry
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VE1IDX
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« Reply #120 on: September 01, 2005, 08:30:01 PM »

New day and a new price. $1.289 per liter here today. Cry  That's $5.85 per Imperial gallon or $4.68 per US gallon. Angry

Is that $US or $CAN?

I see where you are going here.I quoted $CDN but neverless,ignoring the differance in the value of each currency against each other,a dollar out of my pocket is the same as a dollar out of your's.
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« Reply #121 on: September 01, 2005, 11:59:19 PM »

Prices in Westerly, RI jumped overnight about 30 cents to 2.99/3.09/3.19 at most stations.  Topped of the 98 Volvo V70XC Cross Country, which likes 91 plus octane at 3.08 per for 93 octane.  Less than a half mile away, the Cumberland Farms was charging 3.59 Shocked per for 93 octane, and was way out of whack with the norm on  the other grades as well. They usually have the lowest prices in town.  Either they are gouging, or they are the first ones to jump to tomorrows pricing.  Called in a possible gas gouging complaint to the RI Atty Generals Office to check them out.  Needless to say , Cumbys didnt appear to be selling much gas tonight at those prices.

I guess we should be thankful here in New England that gas prices are the biggest thing we have to P&M about of late.  Absouletly imcomprehensible how bad things are down in New Orleans and Mississippi.  There but for the grace of God go we....
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« Reply #122 on: September 02, 2005, 01:32:23 PM »

As of yesterday afternoon, 9/1, 3 gas stations in my area were without gas, 4th one only had premium at $3.40 a gallon. He figured he would run out by that evening. None of them had any idea when they would get the next delivery of gas. Hess station on Route 18, in East Brunswick, NJ had a line reminiscent of the early 70's. Vendors also walking up and down the line selling coffee and soda.

GAS SHOCK
[/size]

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« Reply #123 on: September 02, 2005, 01:56:20 PM »

As of this posting, (1345) prices were on their way down. Lets see how quick the stations and distributors react.

Energy Prices
 
 PETROLEUM ($/bbl)
                            PRICE*  CHANGE  %CHANGE TIME
Nymex Crude          67.65      -1.82    -2.62        13:00
IPE Crude               65.70      -2.02    -2.98        13:28
Dated Brent            65.57      -1.60    -2.39        13:31
WTI Cushing           68.05      -1.42    -2.04        12:21
 
 
 PETROLEUM (¢/gal)
                          PRICE*    CHANGE   %CHANGE TIME
Nymex Heating Oil 208.50     -11.35    -5.16       13:00
Nymex Gasoline     217.50     -23.40    -9.71       12:59
 
 
 NATURAL GAS ($/MMBtu)
                              PRICE* CHANGE  %CHANGE TIME
Nymex Henry Hub      11.72      -.04      -.31        13:00
Henry Hub                11.31     -1.34  -10.59        09/01
New York City Gate    12.32     -1.71   -12.19       09/01
 
 
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #124 on: September 02, 2005, 01:58:26 PM »

I just paid $2.93/gal to fill up at about 11 AM this morning.  I passed by some empty pumps and places with lines here and there, but I didn't have to wait where I finally stopped and fueled up.

Wonder how world gas prices would compare if you just considered the actual price of the product, minus taxes, fees, and import duty.  At the moment, in Europe, gas at the pump is  running about twice the US price, and Canada is not far behind.

I just read in the news that European oil companies are considering selling to the US to take advantage of our spike in prices. (Article didn't say if they were talking about refined fuel or crude oil).  We already get oil from Canada.  US oil companies sell to Japan and other Asian countries, including China (I think).  China's price is still far below ours.  Not sure about Japan's.

Point is, if the cost of fuel is only a reflection of the product itself, why would US sell to China where the price  is dirt cheap compared to ours, and why would Canada and Europe sell to the US for half what they could get on their own turf?
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