Here's why I am 100% FOR CW!!

[WBear2GCR]

I am 100% for keeping CW as a requirement for General and higher priveleges.

Here's why:

I was never a good CW op! The best I ever did was a shaky 20wpm, and it took me years to master 5 wpm as a youngster, and far too long to get my General at 13wpm. (I don't like cw.)

EVERYTHING SHOULD NOT BE MADE SIMPLIFIED AND EASY.

If you get something for nothing, what is it worth to you? Nothing, usually.

Doing so is a mistake of the highest order. Not just a mistake for ham radio, but a mistake in general.  There should be a reward for the effort which is comensurate with the effort put forth, imho.

CW obviously limits the "riff-raff" and fools by making it non-trivial for someone to memorize a book and take a test - or worse (and I have seen this happen) have someone else take the test for you.  This is clearly an important aspect to the CW part of the ham radio license requirements.

13 wpm is acheivable with a modest effort by almost everyone. 5 wpm is a "no-brainer".

NOW, the case being made that it will "open the doors" to ham radio for more people is a CANARD and a false claim! Yes, it will permit more physical bodies to transmit (in all likelyhood), but at the expense of a significant reduction in the QUALITY and STANDARD that those people represent. Sorry to say it, but true.

For something like Ham Radio, the personal investment in the license is a significant part of the VALUE of the LICENSE!!

The PROBLEM of not attracting NEW people to HAM RADIO is a GROSS FAILURE OF THE ARRL (as the representative body and organization) TO DO EVEN A POOR JOB in this regard!! This is where the responsibility lies, and precisely where the issue resides! Not in watering down the licensing requirements!

Let me give an example in point which fully illustrates the last point above:

In Japan, there is a board game called Go. Invented in China ~4,000 years ago, and played extensively in China, Japan and Korea, it exceeds Chess in complexity and beauty, based on a simple clever rule set and a larger board... but for years Japan led the world with the best players. (This game is played professionally, with major televised $$ championships) Since WWII Japan's dominance has erroded and slipped away. The number of young players coming up dropped to minimal levels in recent years. UNTIL! Until only a few years ago the professional Japanese Go organizations got together with some large companies, raised some money, hired some talent and made for TV.... a CHILDREN's "Cartoon"  Show! The effect was that youth Go classes soon swelled to overflowing.

Why? NOT BECAUSE the Anime showed Go to be an "easy game" to play or master, not because it showed it to be "simple" and mindless. Quite the opposite, it held the game up to be difficult, hard to master, and WORTHY of the effort. It showed failure! It showed that the activity was something worth doing for the sake of the activity itself!!

WHY HAS THE LEAGUE OR ANYONE ELSE NOT DONE ANYTHING EVEN VAGUELY LIKE THIS TO BRING HAM RADIO TO THE ATTENTION OF THE YOUTH OF AMERICA??

THIS is what needs to be done - not watering down the license provisions.

Let the people without motivation or desire have CB and the internet.
THIS IS HAM RADIO, something worth achieving and worth doing, worth putting in an effort.

(btw, the argument that computers, internet and TV have taken young people away from Ham Radio is only a partial truth. Those things are simply not the same as or a substitute for Ham Radio, nor do they have any of the characteristics that make Ham Radio special, unique, and exciting!)

This is what I think everyone should write about to the League and to the FCC (when the time comes.)

         _-_-bear WB2GCR

[John Holotko]

It's not a matter of watering down the license requirements.  The CW  as a requirement can be replaced with some  other proficiency criteria better suited to reflect todays technological  advances. CW had a place in decades gone by when it was still a viable and widely  used mode of communications.  But it no longer is.  On a resume it carries no weight. The military  has abandoned CW in favor of modern digital modes of  communication.  What inspiration is it for a young person eager to dig into technology when i have to tell him that the first step into ham radio is to start becoming proficient in a mode of communication that had gone out with the telegraph. He would probably waste far less time if he simply got hold of a cheap  PC computer, installed Linux on it, and jumped on line and start digging into and developing real applications amidst a vast world of  exciting relevant modern day technologies that lies in front of him and that will look good on his resume.  The ranks of ham operators is dwindling and requiring proficiency antiquated modes of communication is  not going to jolt it back to life.  ham radio needs new blood and new ideas if it is going to survive.   If proficiency of a particular mode is required why not replace CW with a requirement to demonstrate proficiency in a digital protocol ?? It would make more sense in this day and age.

[w3jn]

CW obviously limits the "riff-raff" and fools

ohh, boy.... :roll:

Didn't work too well keeping the 3878 and 3872 groups out.

[Glenn K2KL]

Very well put Bear!...

Cw isn't an instant gratification thing... you have to work a little bit to learn it, the comparison to learning a musical instrument someone made is very appropriate...

Perhaps we should replace CW exams with questions on how to setup a winlink!  :roll:  yea right!  :badgrin:

Ham radio is NOT the internet, and I'm very thankful for that.

[WBear2GCR]

<snip> CW had a place in decades gone by when it was still a viable and widely  used mode of communications.  But it no longer is. <snip>  What inspiration is it for a young person eager to dig into technology when i have to tell him that the first step into ham radio is to start becoming proficient in a mode of communication that had gone out with the telegraph. <snip> PC computer, installed Linux on it, and jumped on line and start digging into and developing real applications amidst a vast world of  exciting relevant modern day technologies that lies in front of him and that will look good on his resume.  The ranks of ham operators is dwindling and requiring proficiency antiquated modes of communication is  not going to jolt it back to life.  ham radio needs new blood and new ideas if it is going to survive.   If proficiency of a particular mode is required why not replace CW with a requirement to demonstrate proficiency in a digital protocol ?? It would make more sense in this day and age.

I think you've missed the point almost entirely.

Except to the extent that we agree that something is required - and has been for decades - to reverse the trend of thinning ranks.

It is important to note that when it comes time, and it may still yet, to communicate on a spark gap made from a power source, two wires and a coil, I can do that with CW - eh?

No one precluded the profiency in a "digital" technology here.

The reasons that your young protege was disinterested in CW include: A) nothing was presented to him that held it out as "valuable" in terms like: a movie/media/music star does it, or other hero/role model (ie. ZERO media/PR/life input)   B) It is easier to be lazy and dork around with a computer or Playstation.

This isn't to say that your protoge did not engage in any activities that required significant focus and effort - but I would suggest that it pays to look at what really are the internal motivating factors that makes young people do this, and apply that information to make Ham Radio have a "better profile".  (It's got a ZERO/NIL/NADA profile now, eh?)

The source of "inspiration" as I implied in my post comes from the perception of value, the actual or true value may or may be high or low. Since nothing is being done to create this perception at all, we get the default perception which is nothing, ergo, limited motivation. Highly limited.

Give me a budget and a film crew, an agreement to air it or show it appropriately and often enough, I can change that perception and inspire a whole lot of young people to learn CW... no problem, thanks.

CW is not the problem.
The age of CW is not a problem.
Modern technology is not the problem.
If CW is the price of admittance to the "club" then the question is reduced to who wants to join this club and why?
Answer that question first, and you can start to solve the problem from the end that requires the solution applied - not the bassackwards end of reduction of the license requirements.

           _-_-bear

[W2VW]

EVERYTHING SHOULD NOT BE MADE SIMPLIFIED AND EASY.

If you get something for nothing, what is it worth to you? Nothing, usually.

Just like when building a station.

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

CW obviously limits the "riff-raff" and fools

ohh, boy.... :roll:

Didn't work too well keeping the 3878 and 3872 groups out.

Nor the wonderful group of sidebanders that used to congregate on 3910!

[W1GFH]

I would suggest that it pays to look at what really are the internal motivating factors that makes young people do this, and apply that information to make Ham Radio have a "better profile".  (It's got a ZERO/NIL/NADA profile now, eh?)

Yep, ham radio could do with a better street rep. But I'm not sure a music video showing Brittney Spears operating an Icom 756 ProIII would make America's youth rush to get their ham tickets.

I would suggest that it pays to look at the end objective - what is it? To save ham radio from death by increasing new licensing numbers? To increase licensing numbers by X amount? (How much is *enough*"? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?) To make young people love radio the way "we" do?

Actually, as long as the FCC doesn't do away with us, I'm OK with flat licensing numbers. 600,000 or whatever it is today is pretty impressive. We don't need 60 million.

And if a young person is interested in radio, swell. If not, you don't need to go on a "membership drive", or beg at airports like Moonies.

[Art]

Guys, while I agree with the adage; that which is obtained too easily is valued too lightly, we also need to have relevance. It has been illustrated many times the CW requirement has not succeeded in creating utopia.  There was a period when I knew very little about 'good amateur practice' and was quite capable at CW. I think it better to know how to operate properly, be safe, and have some technical knowledge rather than copy CW at 5, 13, 20, or 25 WPM. . . .
How bout this. . . we are entering the digital age so should we require typing at, say, 50WPM for an extra class license? It peripherally applies but it's not really relevant and begs the question, Why? . . . same thing . . .
The FCC is far beyond establishing requirements to provide itself with things to do. Now, the ARRL . . . that might be a different story.


-ap

[John Holotko]

<snip> CW had a place in decades gone by when it was still a viable and widely  used mode of communications.  But it no longer is. <snip>  What inspiration is it for a young person eager to dig into technology when i have to tell him that the first step into ham radio is to start becoming proficient in a mode of communication that had gone out with the telegraph. <snip> PC computer, installed Linux on it, and jumped on line and start digging into and developing real applications amidst a vast world of  exciting relevant modern day technologies that lies in front of him and that will look good on his resume.  The ranks of ham operators is dwindling and requiring proficiency antiquated modes of communication is  not going to jolt it back to life.  ham radio needs new blood and new ideas if it is going to survive.   If proficiency of a particular mode is required why not replace CW with a requirement to demonstrate proficiency in a digital protocol ?? It would make more sense in this day and age.

I think you've missed the point almost entirely.

Except to the extent that we agree that something is required - and has been for decades - to reverse the trend of thinning ranks.

It is important to note that when it comes time, and it may still yet, to communicate on a spark gap made from a power source, two wires and a coil, I can do that with CW - eh?

No one precluded the profiency in a "digital" technology here.

The reasons that your young protege was disinterested in CW include: A) nothing was presented to him that held it out as "valuable" in terms like: a movie/media/music star does it, or other hero/role model (ie. ZERO media/PR/life input)   B) It is easier to be lazy and dork around with a computer or Playstation.

Actually those young people (and I work in the field and I meet quite a few of them) who are interested in computers and who "dork around" with them are anything but lazy and are the people who will be leading many of todays and tomorrows technological advances. These young people are learning many of todays leading edge skills and many of them are already developing software that has viable uses in industry and across the Internet and  will change the way we use computers and carry the technology through the 21st century and beyond.  Yeah, they may not be able to tap out code on a spark gap transmitter but they can sure develope some incredible software, that can do some pretty amazing things. In additon they are acquiring some excellent skills that will look pretty darned good on their resume when the time comes to find a job (although many of them have jobs already). They are anything buy lazy.

This isn't to say that your protoge did not engage in any activities that required significant focus and effort - but I would suggest that it pays to look at what really are the internal motivating factors that makes young people do this, and apply that information to make Ham Radio have a "better profile".  (It's got a ZERO/NIL/NADA profile now, eh?)

Well, when I tell a young kid who is hacking away at the Linux kernel, learning the new 64 bit architechture  and experimenting with 64 bit programming, various communications protoclols or contributing some new code to a DBMS project, writing embedded apps , etc and he asks me about ham radio and the first think I have to tell him is to start learning to pound the old brass key is can be a definate turn off wondering if ham technology didn;t die back in 1959.

The source of "inspiration" as I implied in my post comes from the perception of value, the actual or true value may or may be high or low. Since nothing is being done to create this perception at all, we get the default perception which is nothing, ergo, limited motivation. Highly limited.

Give me a budget and a film crew, an agreement to air it or show it appropriately and often enough, I can change that perception and inspire a whole lot of young people to learn CW... no problem, thanks.

This I highly doubt. Yes, you may inspire a limited curiocity in CW but overall I doubt it would be very large or last very long. Primarilly because of the reality, times have changed, technology has dramatically changed and CW simply does not have the practical application that it once had. One of the big inspirations for the development and growth of cw ops. in the old days was the military.which has pretty much abandoned cw today. Sure in many ways it sucks, I hate to see a nostalgic  mode like cw go by the wayside but reality is reality.  There is no practical reason to maintain CW as a REQUIREMENT for a ham radio license.  There are plenty  of more viable things future licensees can be tested on that would work just as well or better at separating the slackers from those who are genuinly interested and serious about ham radio, Meanwhile CW can and SHOULD remain a legal mode  for those who wish to use it.
 

CW is not the problem.
The age of CW is not a problem.
Modern technology is not the problem.
If CW is the price of admittance to the "club" then the question is reduced to who wants to join this club and why?
Answer that question first, and you can start to solve the problem from the end that requires the solution applied - not the bassackwards end of reduction of the license requirements.

           _-_-bear

Yes, and requirements often change. Much as the 13 and 20 spm code requirements were dropped and only a 5 wpm code requirement remains. Similarly the 5 wpm requirment can be dropped while still assuring reasonable criteria for getting a license.  No place is it etched in stome that a code requirment must remain forever. I

[WBear2GCR]

CW obviously limits the "riff-raff" and fools

ohh, boy.... :roll:

Didn't work too well keeping the 3878 and 3872 groups out.

Nor the wonderful group of sidebanders that used to congregate on 3910!

The operative word, my dear friends is limits! If you doubt that, just listen any day to the 27mHz. band and compare notes.

       _-_-bear

[w3jn]

I doubt the only difference between hams and CBers is the CW requirement.

No-coders seem to follow the rules just fine on VHF.

Perhaps it's the anonymity that CB offers....?

[Paul, K2ORC]

I'm 100% for the operation of all legal modes...
just as long as they ain't operated on any frequency
my friends and I own.

[WBear2GCR]

<snip>

Actually those young people (and I work in the field<snip>  Yeah, they may not be able to tap out code on a spark gap transmitter but they can sure develope some incredible software, that can do some pretty amazing things. In additon they are acquiring some excellent skills that will look pretty darned good on their resume when the time comes to find a job (although many of them have jobs already). They are anything buy lazy.

Anyone who can learn to program proficiently, which is to learn a large range of essentially arbitrary names for command functions, and a computer language syntax to boot should have little difficulty with CW.

So we have firmly established (again) that ability is not an issue, motivation is.

<snip>


Well, when I tell a young kid who is hacking away at the Linux kernel, learning the new 64 bit architechture  and experimenting with 64 bit programming, various communications protoclols or contributing some new code to a DBMS project, writing embedded apps , etc and he asks me about ham radio and the first think I have to tell him is to start learning to pound the old brass key is can be a definate turn off wondering if ham technology didn;t die back in 1959.

Maybe the problem is with you and what you are saying to them??

I first worked with PDP-8s, PDP-11s and System 360 machines, including card punch programming - through modern machines. Don't think for a second that throwing out BS computer jargon changes anything about this issue or what computers are and are not.

The source of "inspiration" as I implied in my post comes from the perception of value, the actual or true value may or may be high or low. Since nothing is being done to create this perception at all, we get the default perception which is nothing, ergo, limited motivation. Highly limited.

Give me a budget and a film crew, an agreement to air it or show it appropriately and often enough, I can change that perception and inspire a whole lot of young people to learn CW... no problem, thanks.

This I highly doubt. Yes, you may inspire a limited curiocity in CW but overall I doubt it would be very large or last very long. Primarilly because of the reality, times have changed, technology has dramatically changed <snipped repetitive argument> [/quote]

That you doubt this shows a lack of a certain type of experience or understanding. It is possible to sell and glamorize almost anything, my friend.
 

CW is not the problem.
The age of CW is not a problem.
Modern technology is not the problem.
If CW is the price of admittance to the "club" then the question is reduced to who wants to join this club and why?
Answer that question first, and you can start to solve the problem from the end that requires the solution applied - not the bassackwards end of reduction of the license requirements.

           _-_-bear

Yes, and requirements often change. Much as the 13 and 20 spm code requirements were dropped and only a 5 wpm code requirement remains. Similarly the 5 wpm requirment can be dropped while still assuring reasonable criteria for getting a license.  No place is it etched in stome that a code requirment must remain forever. I <snip>

No it is not - but this rule change is being touted as a SOLUTION to a specific problem. I am suggesting that it is NOT the SOLUTION to the problem, but an attempt to effect a peripheral symptom.  The underlying problem in my view is unrelated directly to a CW requirement or lack thereof.

    _-_-bear

PS. I point out as a matter of reference that Baseball is in essence rather much the same as it was a hundred years ago, as are all sorts of other things - need it be abandoned or changed beyond recognition?

How about Venice? Pave it over because Gondola are not a practical modern transportation means??

How about DIGITAL HF? DRMS is it? Is Ham Radio the SAME thing if there is no fading, no static crashes, no noise, no adjacent channel intermod, no ionispheric effects?? At what point does it become NOT Ham Radio anymore??

In large part the appeal of Ham Radio is that it is in part on many levels an ART - should we (especially those on AM ) in any way support the sterilization of Ham Radio?? I say not!

[W2VW]

The CBers around here are more technically advanced than the dingleberries who insist on operating ssb you know where.
At least they can hook a D104 to a Tempo One without it sounding like a tin can.

[John Holotko]

<snip>

Anyone who can learn to program proficiently, which is to learn a large range of essentially arbitrary names for command functions, and a computer language syntax to boot should have little difficulty with CW.

So we have firmly established (again) that ability is not an issue, motivation is.

And that leads us right back to square one.  Many young people are not  motivated with regards to learning something that  is largely obsolete.  Case and point, when i was  in my teens  I  had the motivation to become a ham.  But when i read the provisions for the novice class licence back then,  limited to 75 watts, crystal controlled and restricted to CW ONLY, I was horrified.  I no longer wanted to bother with a Novice license. So I decided to go straight for my general and wound up getting no license until much later on in life.  I saw no motivation to study code and take a test only to be restricted to a mode that was going obsolete even back then.

I first worked with PDP-8s, PDP-11s and System 360 machines, including card punch programming - through modern machines. Don't think for a second that throwing out BS computer jargon changes anything about this issue or what computers are and are not.

Would it make sense to require programmers to demonstrate a proficiency keypunch machines in this day and age being they are rarely used.

The source of "inspiration" as I implied in my post comes from the perception of value, the actual or true value may or may be high or low. Since nothing is being done to create this perception at all, we get the default perception which is nothing, ergo, limited motivation. Highly limited.

Those who are so inspired can use CW. It just doesn't need to be a requirment for  getting a license anymore.  I'd like to get back toi using CW once in a while. I don;t  see much practical  value to it however. And I am glad  it is there for me  to use. But  I see no  reason to require it anymore.

That you doubt this shows a lack of a certain type of experience or understanding. It is possible to sell and glamorize almost anything, my friend.
 

I see no reason to glamourize it. It is something that served  it's purpose when it was needed. It worked well for the time and many people are aware  that code was  once a part of our communications history. And I am sure many people young and old will learn it and keep alive just as much as some people light their homes with candles and oil lamps every now and then despite the fact that electric lights are available.  CW will likely never die but still, does  it need to be a requirement ?

CW is not the problem.
The age of CW is not a problem.
Modern technology is not the problem.
If CW is the price of admittance to the "club" then the question is reduced to who wants to join this club and why?
Answer that question first, and you can start to solve the problem from the end that requires the solution applied - not the bassackwards end of reduction of the license requirements.

 

No it is not - but this rule change is being touted as a SOLUTION to a specific problem. I am suggesting that it is NOT the SOLUTION to the problem, but an attempt to effect a peripheral symptom.  The underlying problem in my view is unrelated directly to a CW requirement or lack thereof.

I think it is in part a solution. It may not be the whole solution but perhaps a piece of it. Perhaps the only thing that will bring more hams onto the scene will be the day that ham radio morphs into something different than what  we know it as today. Then perhaps there is no way to really  "save" ham radio. I personally think that radio has  lost much of the exciting appeal it oince had. At one time communication with someone in another state or country from your home was extremely exciting and considered almost amazing. Today it is commonplace, people do it via email every day, i  am doing it right now on this bbs.  yes it;s  true that when you do it on ham radio you are doing it under your  own power without the help of an ISP or a communications carrier.  But nonethless radio does not carry the excitement it once had.  

How about DIGITAL HF? DRMS is it? Is Ham Radio the SAME thing if there is no fading, no static crashes, no noise, no adjacent channel intermod, no ionispheric effects?? At what point does it become NOT Ham Radio anymore??

Sure it will always be ham radio, just different  than what you or I traditionally grew up with.  As long as you have a group of people experimenting be it AM or SSb with fades or be it digital hf or DRMS with no fades, noise  etc. as long  as  a group of people are communicationg with it and experimenting it will be ham, radio, albeit different than what the previous generation was familiar  with.

In large part the appeal of Ham Radio is that it is in part on many levels an ART - should we (especially those on AM ) in any way support the sterilization of Ham Radio?? I say not!

The advancement of the technology is no more a sterilization og the hobby than was the jump from spark gap to tube transmitters.

[Bow/KD5KZN]

The CBers around here are more technically advanced than the dingleberries who insist on operating ssb you know where.
At least they can hook a D104 to a Tempo One without it sounding like a tin can.

Thanks...

I resemble that remark too...

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

Good Morning Fellas,

 I had the wonderful opportunity here just last year and i think i mentioned it on here about a local ham coming to my place in need of help. He Pulled in the driveway and i walked out to meet him and he said "So your the Wild Card i've been hearing about" I wonder if you could help me. Well I was totally Lost for words, So come on in . Now he is one of our Much older members of the club and "old School Ham" But his hands are were not up to the challenge...

 Could you build this K-2 for me, man this was right after i bought the Spectrum Analyizer, and i was just honored to be in the presence of God ya know, so to speak, "Now we don't have to tell anybody about this"...I smiled...Sure Not a Problem...So i built it and trimmed it out, Dressed up the manual and fixed in Spectragraphs and IMD plots Notes for him...so on, you'd of thought i gave this man a new lease on life how happy he was..see that's the thing that needs to be stressed Technique Technology and Helping out.

 And today he's down on HF Pounding away just as happy as can be, My point here is "It's CW" Hammer away.. Have fun..it's the hobby of the thing...But we have to Upgrade the Regs, and overhaul the entry system it needs dressed up.

What Is needed in my opinion is a complete redress of the written exam it's 30 years passed technology.

[WBear2GCR]

Sorry guys, I don't quite understand why the main point is being lost here.

Well, my main point.

That is that the problem is that Ham Radio is not being adequately promoted and supported by the ARRL or any other organization.

The problem is not the existence of a CW requirement on the license test.

If you want more people involved in Ham Radio, Ham Radio needs to make an effort. Ham Radio is not likely to ever represent the same thing that it represented as a technology or communications medium in the decades past. So, no matter how much "new" technology is rolled into the mix the result is that the exciting, redeeming and interesting aspects of it are unrelated in the main to the specific technology being employed.

Furthermore, if you move Ham Radio toward the world of "perfect" digital communication, indeed there will be no difference between it and this forum or Skype or that program that talks to 2m repeaters (can't remember its name now)... which in the end will spell the ultimate death of Ham Radio.

So, the long term goal needs to be to recognize and identify the elements of Ham Radio that are unique to Ham Radio[/i] and emphasize them! That doesn't mean to NOT incorporate new technology.

CW is part of Ham Radio - it should be part of the TEST requirement in some way shape or form. The no-coders up till now have been limited in their licensed priveliges for good reason - they're have not shown proficiency in the full range of Ham Radio!

And, as I said before, anyone who uses the 5wpm CW requirement as an excuse to not become a Ham Radio operator isn't really interested in Ham Radio enough to put forth this minor effort.

Lowering the standards is not the solution to the problem of thinning ranks.

          _-_-bear

[k4kyv]

Actually, as long as the FCC doesn't do away with us, I'm OK with flat licensing numbers. 600,000 or whatever it is today is pretty impressive. We don't need 60 million.

And if a young person is interested in radio, swell. If not, you don't need to go on a "membership drive", or beg at airports like Moonies.

Amateur radio used to have the inherent ablity to attract newcomers of its own accord.  What happened?

[WBear2GCR]

That's because in 1959 there was little competition.
And, there were still not very many hams coming into the hobby...

Sort of like 6500lb cars and 18 cent a gallon gas...

Now there is competition, and what has the ARRL done differently since then?
Nothing.

If the ARRL was GM or Chrysler it'd be long out of business, eh?
And one of them almost was, and the other might still be...

No wonder, no surprise.

        _-_-bear

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

OK,

 Time Gentlemen, Time, free Time, time when you were a kid to do nothing and then.Wow Ham radio. i talk to these parents down at the ballfield and their kids are in everything under the sun, they have No free time to think.... I watch these parents driving their kids everywhere right into the ground they don't want to think... and the Schoolastic nuts kids taking college courses Push push push... i let my kids be Kids...they'll get going when it's time.

 Same with Adults today, everybody is working two and three jobs to get by No free time... to relax, we're not pushing Relax time today we're pushing the limits to produce...Produce at work, produce for home, Produce for College...it's endless...run, run, run...

 When ya don't have the time to think and relax and work in a hobby there is no hobby.

 I started a thread on Video to promote the Service on Public television i'm formulating an e-mail to stir some initiative at the league, i know where that will go, but it's Promotion, Why Not.

[Paul, K2ORC]

Okay.  I have a problem with "promotion".  

The best way to get people interested in something
is via attraction, not promotion.  You know:  "If
you build it, they will come."

The idea that someone needs to "promote" ham radio,
as though it were a brand of car or other commodity that
competes with other brands, runs counter
to the what I see us being all about.  

What is it that the ARRL or any other organization
 is supposed to promote exactly?   That we have more
fun per square head than model railroaders?  
That we're a service to our communities?  Hell,
most people donate money to the United Way or
throw a quarter in the Salvation Army kettle at
Xmas and figure they're doing their bit for service.

The best way to get people interested in anything
is to do it well and do it with a smile on your face.

If it's interesting and people look like they are having
fun, others are going to be curious to see what's
going on.  I'm afraid that's not what's happening.  
What we too often see and hear are snarling old
curmudgeons who put down newcomers and who
piss and whine about their hobby going down the
tubes.  

Yep.  Those are the kind of people I want
to spend my leisure time getting to know.

No one is going to do this for us.  If you want to see
more people involved in amateur radio,  be
a good rep for the hobby and have fun.  People are
drawn to happy people, not miserable grouches.
Not pointing fingers or accusing anyone here at all.
Most AMers are the exception, thank God.  Maybe that's
why we're seeing the interest here.

Anyway. My 2 cents.

[Ed W1XAW]

When I was first licensed as a novice (WB1GYC) I knew about phone and thought it was interesting but I really thought of ham radio as primarily about CW.  I didn't try phone until around 1990.  I realize now of course that my view of ham radio as primarily a CW hobby wasn't an accurate perception but even so if I could only keep one mode, I'd have to say it would involve a key (probably a bug).  My vote would be to keep the CW requirements and keep the band plans as is (except maybe 80 where parts of the band are underutilized).

73 de W1XAW

[WBear2GCR]

Okay.  I have a problem with "promotion".  

The best way to get people interested in something
is via attraction, not promotion.  You know:  "If
you build it, they will come."

The idea that someone needs to "promote" ham radio,
as though it were a brand of car or other commodity that
competes with other brands, runs counter
to the what I see us being all about.  

What is it that the ARRL or any other organization
 is supposed to promote exactly?   That we have more
fun per square head than model railroaders?  
That we're a service to our communities?  Hell,
most people donate money to the United Way or
throw a quarter in the Salvation Army kettle at
Xmas and figure they're doing their bit for service.

The best way to get people interested in anything
is to do it well and do it with a smile on your face.
<SNIP>

It seems to me that the ARRL also has a similar misunderstanding about what "promotion" is and what it means, and what it does.

"If you build it they will come" is nonsense of the highest order. A very nice platitude indeed. Perhaps true in some specific and isolated instances, but not true as a generality.

More accurate is "if you advertise the piss out of it people will buy it." And then only if you do a good job advertising it, and the product has "legs."

The type of "word of mouth" effect that you hope will carry the hobby forward, is the only thing so far that has carried it! That's the crux of the problem!!

The sort of stupid, nearsighted, dry "public service announcement/documentary style" stuff that the League has produced in the past is about as attractive as paint drying, to be kind. That doesn't attract anything. Pleh.

People can't be attracted to something that they never normally come in contact with in daily life. If you don't see it, you don't know about it, it effectively does not exist!

Computers are in the schools and on TV every day, all the time.

I found out about Ham Radio mostly by direct CONTACT. At summer camp. They marched everyone into the ham shack at least once, on a rainy day!

No contact = no understanding = no interest = no new hams.
Period.

It's as simple as the local ham clubs and the League in concert DOING SOMETHING that creates an attraction and makes it interesting! Rather than the clubs sitting around drinking coffee, yakking, and doing club "business."  Doing nothing about this and nothing is being done to change anything about how we hams reach out to youngsters in our communties?? Is that what ham radio is "about"??

So, let's do nothing, moan, complain and then propose to lower the standards?? Because fewer people find an interest in the invisible hobby of ham radio?? That's the logic here? How about stop being invisible first??

         _-_-bear