What is So Wrong with the Ten Commandments

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

Good Day All,

 Would someone Please Explain to me What is So visually disgusting about the Ten Commandments. If i see one more news excerpt about this i'm going Puke.

[WV Hoopie]

Common sense is gone, jurys believe the impossibe lies of the lawyers. Our legal system has stretched the "Constitution" and "Bill of Rights".

Being reminded to tell the truth and or seek the truth before a trial, during the trial, and in deliberations: can't have the "Ten Commandments" lurking about.

Hoopie,

[W1UJR]

Common sense is gone, jurys believe the impossibe lies of the lawyers. Our legal system has stretched the "Constitution" and "Bill of Rights".

Being reminded to tell the truth and or seek the truth before a trial, during the trial, and in deliberations: can't have the "Ten Commandments" lurking about.

Hoopie,

Exactly, the idea of "moral absolutes" is gone, outdated, old fashioned, not hip.

Just watch the Politically Correct "Beautiful People" from Hollywood, say what you want, lie when convenient, sleep with whomever or whatever you wish, marry today, and divorce tomorrow.

It seems the concept is to find all your "happiness" here and now, and pretend that there is no afterlife.

Any wonder with the suicide, divorce rate, drug and alcohol abuse and death rates are so high for these folks?

Sad thing is that being icons of popular culture they serve as examples….should be examples of what not to do.

Thank God I am Politically Incorrect!

[Bacon, WA3WDR]

It's stupid, really.  The problem with the Ten Commandments is that it comes from one particular set of religious beliefs.  It's the effective promotion of only one set of religious beliefs that is the problem, not the Commandments themselves.

I remember as a kid, going to school where the Ten Commandments were posted on the wall at the back of the room.  My own family was quite secular, so school was the only place I saw them.  I would turn and ponder them...

They were from Exodus 20, and they went something like this:

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I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Thou shalt not murder.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

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"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord they God in vain."  What did that mean?  And some of the other things: the "six days" and the "out of Egypt" and the "sabbath day" were all about one religious teaching only.

Graven images?  What was that about, I wondered.  As for not killing or lying or stealing, or even coveting (hmm, what did that mean?), I had no problem with those commandments.  What was this thing called adultery? Was that when grown ups acted bossy?  I had no clue.  Jealous? Having other gods "before Me?"  I wan't too clear what was meant, but I got the idea of wrath from "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me" - well, we don't talk about that too much.  But I found this a little reassuring: "And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Over the years, I have grown uncomfortable - not so much with the Commandments, but with the people who expound upon them.  Some people seem to be trying to throw them in my face like an overgrown sibling: "You better... or else Mommy and Daddy..."  Others want to hijack the fear of the Diety, and use it for their own purposes.  I have a problem with people like that.

Maybe some sort of a collage would be better; the Ten Commandments, and other pronouncements of right behavior from systems of law such as the US Constitution, and other belief systems.

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

FB Bacon.

[W2VW]

Nothing wrong with the commandments. Atheism is a religion for some also. Should we ban that too?

[Ed W1XAW]

If the state would only encourge the public posting of the ten commandments the hundreds of Christian denominations would come together and what . . . .?  Probably fight to the death over the meaning and application of these rules to modern life.  There is no single Christian voice, why encourage the state to mouth one?   Ed

[W2VW]

I remember as a kid, going to school where the Ten Commandments were posted on the wall at the back of the room.  My own family was quite secular, so school was the only place I saw them. .

Nah couldn't be. Hey Bacon!

[k4kyv]

Basically symbolic.  Seeing them posted doesn't offend me, but I think there are more pressing issues to get involved with and can't see spending tax money debating it in court.  This is just another bogus issue to keep attention away from what really counts, just like the proposed flag desecration amendment.

Cloth-and-dye flags and posters made of stone, wood, metal or paper don't maim or kill people, nor do they guarantee basic human rights.

[WV Hoopie]

ZLR's question as to "What is So visually disgusting about the Ten Commandments."

The display of the "Ten Commandments" in or on a courthouse and or state property isn't forcing anyone to follow that religion, just add more varied displays is a simple answer that should please the masses.

This county was formed on certain beliefs. Those beliefs let the beleaguered masses immigrate to this country. If those who don't like the "Ten Commandments" or don't like its display, please go back to the old county where your grandparents and others left to get away from religious persecution and tyanny. Maybe things are better back in the old homeland this century.

Be damned glad someone had enough sense to form a country with "our" beliefs, the constitution, and bill of rights.

What is disgusting; the errosion of those beliefs and rights!

So please, those who can't handle "our beliefs" get the hell out of the U.S., the al-Quaia is looking for a few good volunteers.

Hoopie,

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

Hi Guys,

 Speaking of the case, How many Judges pepper their decisions with religious  Anointing.. is that fare as well.?, or Lawyers, I just like how it's pointed out as some kind of Demon to pick a word, Oh Look the Ten Commandments..This courtroom is Biased...Da...throw the case out...

 It's like we're not providing the meal with a full course so the next gen can decide for themselves, pick a course and enjoy, sort of thing is my idea i guess.

Art and Philosphy in all it's forms should never be squashed, and taken away to be shelved.

[W3SLK]

What pisses me off about all of this is ACLU decries the fact that if you have anything resembling a religious artifact in a government structure, you are subscribing to that religion. I hate to sound like Irb here but the Founding Fathers who framed the Constitution wrote that you would have freedom OF religion not freedom from religion. It was styled so that you wouldn't have something similar to the 'Church of England'. Although anyone claiming atheism back then would have be labeled a heretic. But what I don't understand is why are the atheists so afraid of something they don't believe exists anyway?

[Bacon, WA3WDR]

Well actually I think our president might benefit from having a copy of the Ten Commandments on his wall.  Maybe then he would obey the one about not bearing false witness, for a change.  Come to think of it, his whole administration should do that as well.

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

The ACLU...Ahh when i was a young man and they were in the formative stages how i read everything they put out, and cases fought, and surely i was  on the band wagon playing, a young mans fancy questioning the establishment purposely and so on...great days.. Hair Peace Bed Peace remember boys...LOL...John Lennon...so full of energy... everything anew.

So now we're here and being used to "anew" then, binding contradiction, them today falling short of the original concepts in my mind, older now and less bolder, But, still American Civil Liberties Union, Civil Liberties...they're taking away man Not adding "to" the common good.

at least in my mind, such as it is...

[k4kyv]

The Founding Fathers who framed the Constitution wrote that you would have freedom OF religion not freedom from religion. It was styled so that you wouldn't have something similar to the 'Church of England'. Although anyone claiming atheism back then would have be labeled a heretic. But what I don't understand is why are the atheists so afraid of something they don't believe exists anyway?

Notice that in Iraq the issue is between Shi'ites and Sunnis.  You don't hear much from the atheist community anywhere in the middle east.  It is a matter of which religious belief system you subscribe to, not whether or not you subscribe to a religious belief.

I wonder how many atheists and agnostics exist within the Iraqi population?  They probably just keep silent in the interest of self preservation, since they would be looked upon as "infidels" along with Jews and Christians.  Remember, before 11SE01, the Taliban in Afghanistan received world attention not for sheltering Bin Laden, but for blowing up the ancient Buddhist statues that had existed on the sides of mountains there for over 1500 years.

There is, or at least used to be, a significant Jewish community in Iran.  I had quite a few Iranian classmates at university back in the early 60's, and nearly all were Jewish.  They all expressed the same hatred towards the Shah as did the Islamic fundamentalists before the revolution.  

There is a significant native Christian community in Iraq, just as in Lebanon.

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

Subsequent reason why that part of the world is in peril, so much so it's effecting everyone. There has to be "Question" no one human can be so solace and cold at such a level as displayed by those folks, it's uncanny, it's unerving, it's Not Healthy Mentally,  it has to thrive from Force of will over others those problems over there.

In all human hearts lies the question, sooner or later, your going to ask it..

They're running over here by the truck loads.. it's not just all about money and greed...Freedom to think Freely...and act independently...

[John Holotko]

The ten commandments doesn;t belong posted in a courthouse any more than a copy of the Koran, or the tenets of satanism. Posting religious doctrine on the walls of a court implies that the court subscribes to a particular religious doctrine as a part of it's function. In America a court of law is supposed to represent all people FAIRLY  and REGARDLESS of race, religion or skin colour. It would therefore make sense that such doctrine as the ten commandments 9which represents a specific religion) be left out of the courtroom. It doesn;t belong there.  For those who are so religious that they can't spend a few hours in court without seeing the ten commandments I suggest the following. I am sure the court would not object to an individual carrying a small personal pocket sized version of the ten commandments which they can occaisionally pull out and read during the duration of time that they must spend in the court.  That should satisfy everyone. The individual can read his/her own ten commandments by personal choice and be happy. And the individuals (like myself)  who prefer not having the court shove a particular religions doctrine down their throat will also be happy. See, problem solved and everyone goes home a happy camper and nobody's rights were violated.

[Jack-KA3ZLR-]

Hello John thank you for your thoughts,

 It's a herdle i'm having a hard time over coming, it'll pass, in the mean time i'd like to enter this for your thoughts, on any given day we are subject to issues of health, food intake, visual intake, audio intake, Sleep or lack of etc, regardless of position or place, prior to or leaving from a courthouse, fine, so on any given day anything is possible from any prospective given outside criteria.

 So, in this Blank Public Building that is Off limits to any outside Philosphy flooded with Human beings suspect to any of the data i've entered here HOW do WE guarantee that i'm recieving perfect Law, see it's the logic of the thing John it's flawed, from the get go.

 Regardless of what is or isn't displayed on the walls or on the sidewalk outside we are still Suspect to our environment.

It'll Pass John it's a Logic thing i'm having...

[wa1knx]

actually, I'm sort of with Bruce with this one.  The 10 commandments
make for a reasonable basis of behavior, thus ok to have posted for
the public.  you can take God completely out of the picture and the guidelines still stand on there own merit. . .

[W1UJR]

actually, I'm sort of with Bruce with this one.  The 10 commandments
make for a reasonable basis of behavior, thus ok to have posted for
the public.  you can take God completely out of the picture and the guidelines still stand on there own merit. . .

Exactly, much of the law and culture of this country is directly based upon those 10 simple laws.
Even the most “Politically Correct” among us would be hard pressed to disagree with the bulk of the wisdom which is contained in the 10 Commandments.

Remove that and post a Koran and you no longer have the United States.
Each attempt to do so only further erodes the wisdom, values and principals which made this country the greatest in the world.

Despite what an earlier poster's thoughts, the majority of major religions in this country, nay in the world, are based upon the 10 Commandments.
It is simply foolish to think that said religions would fight over the very basis of their founding. Do not most faiths agree that murder, stealing, adultry, etc. are wrong?
Indeed if all that goes in the guise of religion were boiled down to what is contained in the 10 Commandments there would be much less strife and discontent in the world.


.

[W3SLK]

To steal Bill O'Reilly's line, that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian fundementals. If you don't like it, give me all your money. Because every penny and every dollar has "In God We Trust". Now every government oath of office and every admonishment given to courtroom testimony ends with "So Help Me God!" Like 'Prego,' its in there, whether you like it or not. To coin the phrase at one of the local churches here, "No God, no peace; Know God, know peace."

[John Holotko]

actually, I'm sort of with Bruce with this one.  The 10 commandments
make for a reasonable basis of behavior, thus ok to have posted for
the public.  you can take God completely out of the picture and the guidelines still stand on there own merit. . .

I competely disagree. A court of law is about law and justice. The 10 commandments is about religion. It doesn't belong in a courtroom any more than it belongs in the Department of Motor Vehicles . Those religious folks who follow  the ten commandments have ample opportunity to look at them, read them, study them, and, obey them without them being posted on a courtroom wall.  The doctrine of a particular religion does not have to be posted in public. And not allowing it to be posted in public space does not violate anyone's freedom of religion.

[Bacon, WA3WDR]

...the majority of major religions in this country, nay in the world, are based upon the 10 Commandments.

You mean that they say essentially the same thing.  So why not post a collage of all of these statements?  Or only several of them, if that would take up too much space.  Wouldn't it actually carry more weight that all of these beliefs call for a high standard of behavior?

[w3bv]

..

[W1UJR]

 So why not post a collage of all of these statements?  

Why do we have to compromise our heritage for that of other cultures?
Why tear down what is already built?
The 10 Commandments as given to Moses are a guidebook for life, given by God, how can man improve on that?

Have you ever looked at the front of the building which houses the Supreme Court of the United States?

Care to guess the gentleman in the center of the work?
I'll give you a hint, its not anyone from the ACLU.




It is actually Moses holding the 10 Commandments, I think that clearly states the principals which this country holds dear.
If the highest court in the land holds those principals dear, thats good enough for me.

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