Unreliable vintage Transmitters

[n8fvj]

I bought 5 vintage tube transmitters from Hams that stated working. None worked. However, every piece of Military transmitters I bought have worked. Why?

[Detroit47]

The military equipment was made with a spare no expense attitude. That focused on reliability. The commercial gear was made on a budget to make a profit. If it was made to expensive it wouldn't sell. As a side note vintage equipment is like having a vintage car or motorcycle you can expect to have to work on it. Lastly being able to work on it yourself is part of the allure of vintage gear. Just my humble opinion.

Johnathan N8QPC

[WQ9E]

And to add to Jonathan's excellent explanation, it is highly likely that the ham gear saw a lot more use than the military gear which unfortunately most owners treat more as show and use less often.

Rodger WQ9E

[KD1SH]

  Having worked in the military aerospace industry, I agree—component quality is generally better in military gear, but I would still suggest using the same caution in powering up vintage military gear for the first time as you would vintage commercial gear. Mil-spec or not, electrolytic caps degrade, transformers absorb moisture, and insulation dries out and cracks. Mil-spec magic smoke smells just like commercial-grade magic smoke.
  I don't have any vintage military transmitters, but I have an excellent SP-600-JX-17, and a pair of URM-25 signal generators. Very impressive build quality.

[ns7h]

I agree with Johnathan that the appeal to me is to work on, upgrade, or restore vintage transmitters to specs.  All my hamfest or Ebay purchases receivers and transmitters worked, sort of, including 50s and 60s heathkits, drake, hammerlund, WRL Globes, Harvey Wells, and Johnsons.

At 76 and a retired electrical engineer, the space inside of vintage gear and simplicity of schematics allows me this pleasure to hear a receiver working and watts out of the transmitter (on frequency).  The increasingly rarity and cost of tubes, switches, transformers and unobtainium is a barrier.  Even discrete common components have gone insanely expensive.  Regardless, it is one of the best parts of ham radio to me.

NS7H

[MikeKE0ZUinkcmo]

...I agree with Johnathan that the appeal to me is to work on, upgrade, or restore vintage transmitters to specs...

I do the same, and most have come to me as non/barely working.   

To me repairing/restoring them is the most enjoyable part of the hobby.   Problem is, I get them running, use them a few weeks, then on to the next.    They set on the shelf, and some have been there for years, and at 82 its time to start thinking about moving them on.

 

[Opcom]

It's the challenge when a set was given up on by several people.

Currently, there's an RT-1439 here with a B+ short to GND in the RF PA board. I know the last guy to work on it and he is extremely, extremely competent. I HOPE I can fix it but it's my turn now. I want to look at the board with the x-ray machine, that hasn't been done yet. LOL if I were the gummint and it was 1989, I'd just order the board and let the taxpayers pick up the tab. hahahahaha!

I hope I will make it to 82! That's great!! But it's no joke for any of us to eventually find happy homes for all our radios and parts. Preferrably paying happy homes hehe.

[MikeKE0ZUinkcmo]

I got an old TCS-13 Mil Tx and Rx from a friend that was a real basket case.   long ago someone had took out the 1625s and Sockets, replacing them with 807 sockets and hardware, and never finished.

So there was a lot of reading to get my head around what the guy attempted to do.   Finally finished incorporating the 807 conversion and making a speech amp assy to replace what was lost and missing.   Worked great and used it for a few weeks, till the "new" wore off, then on to the next "new toy".

 

[W1RKW]

Mike,
You have one of the coolest test bench setups.

and to expand on Jonathon's/Detroit47 post, military grade equipment goes through some heavy duty testing to ensure that it will withstand the environment it will be used in.  Mil spec equipment is basically beaten to near death to test surviveability. Shock, vibration, atmospheric pressure, vacuum, water, humidity, EMC, etc. Commercial/consumer grade equipment, not so much or at all.  

[KA3EKH]

Its all relative isn’t it, Lot of the military stuff is older then the Ham stuff around but the real problem is anything that’s fifty or sixty years old now is a crap shoot every time you go to use it. Just think if you had a 68 Road Runner and wanted to use that as a daily driver.
Years ago I learned about MTBF, Mean Time between Failure and at the time thought that was a bunch of crap. Over time I learned that it’s a fact and time has a way of messing up everything.
There is no Thermodynamic equilibrium, given time everything fails. Most Military equipment uses the highest quality components or at least what is assumed to be for the task at hand, most Ham equipment uses lesser quality in order to comply with economic realities. Construction quality, materials used and quality control are all variables with something built by Bofang or MFJ at one end of the scale and Aerospace flight hardware at the other. But age is also a factor and all components have a projected lifespan and the corporate love of Value engineering has only increased the idea of it only has to last for a finite amount of time.
Ok, so if you’re still reading that’s all a lot of flowery crap, long story short. If you’re going to run vintage radios or cars you had better be prepared to work on them. The military stuff is better built then a Heathkit but its all old and its all going to fail.

[K4RT]

I bought 5 vintage tube transmitters from Hams that stated working. None worked. However, every piece of Military transmitters I bought have worked. Why?

I bought a Swan transceiver at a hamfest the seller said worked last time he used it. When I got it home, it didn't work. Why? Because I bought an old tube rig at a hamfest from a guy who said it worked the last time he used it.

[MikeKE0ZUinkcmo]

Thanks Bob, I enjoy repairing test equipment as much as radios.    I wouldn't have nearly as much gear if I had to buy everything in working condition.

I bought "pretty" examples of just about anything HP sold, that didn't work, repaired and used it for a while.   If I liked it I kept it, if not it went back on ebay, with the proceeds buying the next piece.    The buy/fix/sell process wound up getting me the equipment I wanted without much out of pocket expense.

[W1RKW]

Mike,
that's a great way of recycling and resurrecting high end test equipment for hobbyist use and keeping it out of the landfill to boot!  I bet some or most of your equipment will outlast anything that is Amazon grade and remain operational and calibrated for years to come. Again, love your setup! 
Bob
rkw

[Tom W2ILA]

You bought the non-working rigs off ebay.   If you buy shoes off ebay they will have holes in the botom.

[MikeKE0ZUinkcmo]

...If you buy shoes off ebay they will have holes in the botom...

So did the radios and test gear, how else to get fresh air in to keep'em cool?

[n8fvj]

You bought the non-working rigs off ebay.   If you buy shoes off ebay they will have holes in the botom..

I bought one transmitter from eBay and four from lying Hams that stated operational. Hams will do anything to get top dollar including lying.

[WD8BIL]

Hmmmmm.......... considering there are many vintage transmitters still in use today it's hard to see how they can be classified as unreliable. I guess it depends on how well and by whom they've been maintained over the years. My Viking 1 (aka Viking Bud), kit built in 1951, has been extremely reliable!

[KD6VXI]

My V2 has been running since it was built in the 50s.

Pretty unreliable.

I've found it's fairly easy to spot people being dishonest.  Not to say I've not been burned before but it's not rocket science.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[KD1SH]

   I can honestly say that I have never had a fellow ham look me right in the eye and claim that a piece of gear is fully functional, and then discover otherwise. Never. Some of it has been less than perfect, but in those cases the seller was upfront about it, and I've always been able to diagnose and correct the problem. To state categorically, as a statement of fact, that all hams are dishonest, is disingenuous at best and a self-pitying deflection at worst. Hams, as a cross-section of the populace, are no worse than anyone else; just be careful buying used stuff—any kind of used stuff but especially old stuff— that's all.
   I think the more important question is why would you, having bought one piece of vintage gear and discovered not only that it didn't work but that you lacked the ability to repair it, proceed to purchase not one but four more?

[DMOD]

KD1SH :To state categorically, as a statement of fact, that all hams are dishonest, is disingenuous at best and a self-pitying deflection at worst. "

Totally agree that the OP is being abusive to fellow hams and should go to used car lots and argue with the salespersons. And not only that, he wants everyone else to solve his problems for him while portraying himself as an expert in many areas.

 

[KA3EKH]

Man I have to beat it into the ground! If you’re going to run vintage radios or cars you had better be prepared to work on them. The military stuff is better built then a Heathkit but its all old and its all going to fail. If you’re going to be in the vintage world you got to learn to roll your own.

[kb3ouk]

KD1SH :To state categorically, as a statement of fact, that all hams are dishonest, is disingenuous at best and a self-pitying deflection at worst. "

Totally agree that the OP is being abusive to fellow hams and should go to used car lots and argue with the salespersons. And not only that, he wants everyone else to solve his problems for him while portraying himself as an expert in many areas.

 

And not just on here, but on QRZ too. I have plenty of vintage equipment too, just like most on here. It breaks, its a fact of life. Even new stuff isn't immune from breaking down. But I fix it and move on, not spend several months afterwards whining and bawling online every chance I get.

[W3SLK]

KA3EKH said:

Man I have to beat it into the ground! If you’re going to run vintage radios or cars you had better be prepared to work on them. The military stuff is better built then a Heathkit but its all old and its all going to fail. If you’re going to be in the vintage world you got to learn to roll your own.

You're flogging a dead horse with this 'joker', (I could think of a better term but it wouldn't be 'socially acceptable!). Through the course of many threads and many boards he has been given sage advice on how to approach his problems only to fence and fight with those trying to help him!

[w8khk]

As stated in that other unending thread about Micah and his affliction,

"Don't feed the Troll".

A starved troll is soon a dead troll.  End of story.   'nuff said.      

[Pete, WA2CWA]

A Good Place To Shut This Thread Down!