How Would A Ham Op Prepare For A Long Electrical Outage

[flintstone mop]

Hello
I'll try to keep the thread in the direction of "what if??"
A long electrical outage and a Ham radio operator would like to keep in touch with the outside world during the outage. A 100W transceiver makes sense to be able to power up and keep updated about the situation.
Solar Power seems to be interesting.
Solar power could keep smaller portable radios/BC radios/Shortwave radios alive by recharging the batteries.
Internet may not be available.
TV is out of the question unless trying to use a laptop and stream any information, if the internet is operating; then that would create another problem to use another power converter to make 110vac to power the wall warts for the modem and router. So, my focus may not be that the internet is worth trying to keep operating.
SMART phones might be a thought if the public systems are not affected and will allow streaming info for a status of what's going on.
What can deal with the power draw of a typical SS transceiver needing 20 amps for TX?

Fred

[W4EWH]

Hello
I'll try to keep the thread in the direction of "what if??"
A long electrical outage and a Ham radio operator would like to keep in touch with the outside world during the outage. A 100W transceiver makes sense to be able to power up and keep updated about the situation.

First, please read my personal memoir on the subject:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/%22scotty$2C$20I$20need$20more$20power%22/rec.radio.amateur.moderated/Gs3wr8WgV6Q/9o94O8xj9DYJ, and accept my assurance that I know a little bit about this.

Solar Power seems to be interesting.
Solar power could keep smaller portable radios/BC radios/Shortwave radios alive by recharging the batteries.

Internet may not be available.

TV is out of the question unless trying to use a laptop and stream any information, if the internet is operating; then that would create another problem to use another power converter to make 110vac to power the wall warts for the modem and router. So, my focus may not be that the internet is worth trying to keep operating.

SMART phones might be a thought if the public systems are not affected and will allow streaming info for a status of what's going on. What can deal with the power draw of a typical SS transceiver needing 20 amps for TX?

Take it from a guy who has been there: your agenda is not the only one to plan for. If you are married, you will already know this, so I'm just stating the obvious. If not, count yourself lucky and proceed in exactly the same way.

Never mind "solar power", unless you are -

• Already using solar and know how to keep the batteries in good shape
• Willing to sacrifice the meat in your freezer, the milk in your refrigerator, and a few burst pipes
• Uninterested in anything but ham radio for the entire duration of the outage.

Don't get me wrong: solar is nice for long term usage, but only if you're willing to cut your "constant" electrical load down to milliwatts, and are able and willing to discipline all the members of your household to do the same. Otherwise, solar is a marginal solution for unexpected power outages, which usually occur -

• During major storms when there is no sunlight to be had
• In the winter when any sunlight which might be available is limited.

The best thing to do, IMHO, is to plan for a week of "off grid" living, without any power from the poles. The solution is to have a generator set sized to power your entire home, and which has been tested every month and properly maintained.

Ham Radio is nice, but not nearly as nice as keeping (ahem) the temperature in your bedroom at a proper level. Trust me.

W1AC

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Hello
A long electrical outage and a Ham radio operator would like to keep in touch with the outside world during the outage.
Fred

What do you consider a long electrical outage, a day, a week, a month, etc.? Is ham radio that important to  you?

[WA2OLZ]

Superstorm Sandy - 14 days without commercial A.C. - virtually trapped as all roads from my home to anywhere were totally blocked with trees, poles, wires. Cell phone towers lasted about five days until their battery backup went flat. 2M/440 rig in the car still worked, but there were no working repeaters in range. Had a 4KW generator which ran all the necessities in the house. Never even thought to try HF from the house; a non-priority and antennas were all down.

Eventually found a way out through a field and couple of dirt roads. No fuel available anywhere in his part of the state. If for no other reason than the gas stations had no power or deliveries. Had six jerry cans full before the storm hit. Found a small gas station in the neighboring state open and with fuel. Note it was well off the highway. Generator ran day and night for fourteen days without an issue (Honda).

What would I do different? Get a larger, but still wheeled generator so the whole house would be powered.

Could have been a LOT worse.

[flintstone mop]

Hello
A long electrical outage and a Ham radio operator would like to keep in touch with the outside world during the outage.
Fred

What do you consider a long electrical outage, a day, a week, a month, etc.? Is ham radio that important to  you?

Well Pete, I would be looking at Ham radio as a means to keep in contact with other people who may have some valuable , life saving information. I'm thinking along the lines of a major outage caused by mother nature or fellow human beings. Thinking about the worst case of months.
The MARS network has turned into a completely complicated organization to join and be involved with. They still communicate to each other as if they are using teletype machines...
Remember the carriage returns and NNNN. They are getting into digital comm using PSK31, I think. There were mounds and mounds of documentation that was needed to be read and tests to take online and submitted to the NCOIC or whatever it was. So I dropped out of MARS.
Solar power gets very involved with almost a completely separate power system with the maintenance of batteries. If something would happen in winter with solar power, we would be in some serious trouble as there can be a lot of cloudy days here in Western Pa.
I have been doing a lot of reading on a small system say, 3kw with inverter and batteries as a power source. I think the term that I want is an OFF-Grid system. I do not want to sell power back to the electric company. Nighttime the system would switch to the grid, when/if it is working. Or we switch everything off overnight to conserve the batteries. Possibly a gasoline generator or natural gas generator would provide power to recharge the batteries for the extended cloudy days of winter.

Maybe my thinking is way out in left field. Winter would be a nightmare.
Thanks for the thoughts here and W1AC I will read your link
And WA2OLZ you were in a tight situation there.
Fred

[KY4SP]

...Take it from a guy who has been there: your agenda is not the only one to plan for. If you are married, you will already know this...The solution is to have a generator set sized to power your entire home, and which has been tested every month and properly maintained.

Ham Radio is nice, but not nearly as nice as keeping (ahem) the temperature in your bedroom at a proper level. Trust me.

W1AC

The above advice is spot on. When I was single, a 500w "lunchbox sized" generator was all I had a need for. My YL at the time thought it was wonderful when I brought it to her place and fired up the TV and a light or two.

Shortly after, the YL becomes the XYL, and a 3.5KW set was OK until it wouldn't run the TV, toaster, microwave and every light in the house at the same time. As years passed, each outage seemed to cause a "need" for more KW.

Now I have a 15KW diesel, ASCO 300 switch and a 150 hour supply of fuel on hand. And I will buy a 30KW if I find it at the right price.

Back to the actual subject of running a 100W 12VDC radio - the easiest way might be to use your car or truck as a power source.

KY4SP    

[AJ1G]

We have been through several extended outages in the last few years here in Stonington,  post-Hurricane Irene (several days), post-"Tropical Storm" Sandy (nearly a week), and post-February 2013 blizzard (over a weekend - Friday night to Sunday night with near zero temps on Saturday night).

Ham radio has always been secondary to keeping vital services (refrigeration, water- we are on a well, and heat during the winter outage) going.

Our biggest weapon here has been our 17.5 KW continuous "portable" job site style generator, which can feed 60 amps of 3 wire 240 VAC right into our main power panel by way of a manual transfer switch that can be lined up to either our commercial power feed or the generator.  The generator is stored in the garage, and is rolled out into the driveway where I rig a tarp over it to keep it dry from rain or snow.  The 60 amp feed from the generator plugs into a weather-tight "casualty power" connector panel near the commercial power service entry into the house, the transfer switch is just inside from there in the basement next to the main power panel.  We can run pretty much anything in the house we need, although not everything at once.  The one exception was our Frigidare front loader washing machine with PWM speed control, which apparently did not like the generator power quality.  We recently replaced the Frigidare washer with a Samsung PWM  direct drive top loader, I have not yet tried running it on the genny.  During all three of the major outages noted, we also fed 120 volt extension cord circuits from the other outlets on the generator to up to 3 neighbors at a time so they could at least plug in their fridges, a few lights, and, if they had satellite TV reception, their TV sets, and recharge their cell phones. During the outage after the blizzard, I jury rigged casualty power cords directly into the oil burner control boxes of the neighbor's furnaces to keep heat and hot water going. The oil burners and the baseboard heat circulating pumps (only 1/25th HP) only drew about 3 amps per household and were plugged into the outlet strips that I put on the load ends of the extension cords that were supplying the neighbors. I made sure that the neighbors only plugged their loads into the outlet strips and did not try to feed any power into their power panels.  They could not run their 240 volt well pumps, so I rigged a hose out to the street from our house so everyone could fill buckets for toilet flushing water or whatever else they wanted to use it for.

Luckily in all of the outages, we were able to get out and refill our gas cans within 24 hours of the passing of the storms.  I keep about 20 gallons of "Stabili"-ized gas on hand all the time, especially during hurricane season.  I generally would run the genny from about 0600 through midnight (about 18 hours a day), and used about 3/4 of a gallon per hour even when carrying our loads and 3 neighbors.  During the blizzard, I kept the genny going all night to keep everyone's heat going.  The fuel consumption under light load isn't all that much better for such a big machine (31 HP V twin engine).  If I was only powering our own loads, I would certainly run the genny considerably fewer hours, but having the neighbors all pitching in to pay for the fuel certainly keeps the cost down enough to keep it running longer.

As far as how to be prepared to maintain emergency ham radio comms from home during outages, in my opinion the best way is to have an all band (HF/VHF/UHF) multimode transciever set up in one of your vehicles, which you can also remove and use in your main station.  Keep a set of 40 and 80/75 meter, and perhaps 20 meter wire dipoles and feed lines in a "field" antenna kit, along with a 20 to 30 foot high multi section mast and associated guy ropes and stakes that you can quickly set up to support a set of NVIS effective inverted vees  to use with the mobile rig our your home station gear in the event that you lose your main station antennas, of course you can also always use your mobile antennas.  Being able to have a very capable radio for emcomms was the main reason I bought an FT-100D  about 15 years ago, it's going to be replaced soon with an Icom 7000 or 7100.  And of course, keep a battery powered or better yet one of the Red Cross endorsed emergency AM/FM/WX band radios with a hand cranked internal genny which can also power a built in flashlight and recharge cell phones.

In all of the last several outages, I had the genny up and running within about a half hour of losing power, the most time was spent rigging the tarp cover over the genny in the wind and rain or driving snow.  I kept it running throughout the height of the storm during Sandy and the blizzard, I recall talking to Nick, KG2IR, on 3885 using my ART-13 on genny power during Sandy before he lost his power on Long Island. It was a challenge keeping the tarp from blowing away in all of the wind, and during the blizzard I had to go out about every hour to knock the snow off so it would not collapse.  In the big blizzard this year, we were lucky and never did lose power.

[KA2DZT]

AJ1G...good clear report, thanks.

Fred

[AJ1G]

Another lesson learned over the various outages....if you have a small emergency generator with a rope pull starter, keep it in a reasonably warm storage location during the winter.  I lent our older 4kw generator to my son in advance of the 2013 blizzard.  He had it stored in his unheated detached garage. When he went to start it after it had sat in near zero degree cold it was nearly impossible to get it to spin, let alone start. Probably didn't help that it had straight 30 weight oil in it.  

[VE3AJM]

If you already have natural gas, have frequent power outages there, and can afford it, a natural gas powered generator of adequare size might fit. No need to worry about obtaining fuel and keeping gasoline around that separates eventually even with the use of fuel stabilizers.

It  could run everything in your home.

Al

[Steve - K4HX]

Seems there are two different topics here.

1. Obtaining AC power during an outage.

2. Getting on the air via amateur radio



As to the second, the easiest way would be to have a mobile rig and power it off your car. As long has you have gas, you have power. And you get to use it all the time, not just during an emergency.

That said, I have my doubts about getting any valuable, life saving information via amateur radio.

[WBear2GCR]

If you are in a rural setting with adequate access to wood, there is a neat solution. It requires either some DIY or the purchase of a commercial unit. It's proven. Will run forever, if you have wood to put in it and it will do heat and power. PM me, if ur curious. (I don't sell them or anything like that) It does represent a way to go off grid, as well.

                  _-_-

[WD5JKO]

The topic concerning natural gas, and how long it lasts during a power outage is discussed at length here:

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=196894

The topic morphs at the end concerning those hooked into city sewer systems. The sewer lines often are pumped uphill with electric pumps. Given enough time without power, the sewer systems will back up and invade peoples homes by over flowing the toilets, and cellar drains. 

Jim
Wd5JKO

[KY4SP]

That is why I have a diesel. Fuel transport requires little more than a generic container and a way to haul same.
In pinch, a pickup truck and some 5 gallon buckets will do.
 

[WD5JKO]

   
One thought is that many of us have a hybrid automobile. Better yet today there are some plug in hybrids that have a larger battery pack installed. We could use these cars as both a short term power source (battery) and long term power source (engine running). I attach a document that discusses the issue and introduces a bi-directional battery charger that can charge the battery from the AC mains, as well as power the AC mains from the battery.

It was about 5 years ago I went to an electric car convention in Austin Texas, and I attended a seminar on the topic. They were thinking that by the year 2025 most people would have a plug in hybrid car, and each car in the garage connected to the power grid would be able to provide temporary power to handle peak demand surges. They were serious; this was not a Star Trek convention. 

Jim
Wd5JKO

[Opcom]

A week to a month is unpleasant but do-able. These things would do for me but maybe not others. It's not possible to isolare a loss of electric power as 'the problem'. There are other issues that come with it.

Texas is not too bad a place if you have water, and here in the lower city area the worst issue would be two legged night crawlers so it would be hoped there would be an enforced curfew to avoid having to defend one's property from those who are despeate or criminal. In the city, occupants of a dwelling should devise a 24 hour watch schedule.

Internet here is DSL and comes over copper from the phone co. it might work, but is a power hog. the modem should only be used if really needed and with a notebook for low power. Consumption is about 50W for the setup. I'd leave it alone.

Summer would be rough if no A/C. The natural gas works despite power outages so a genset for that would be good.

I assume most hams have 2-5 AGM batteries of 50-100Ah and keep them charged, and have a way to put 50 to 150Wh into them each day either of a panel or a generator or vehicle. Remember also you only get about half of it back.

The freezer - well we would cook and eat the food as soon as possible while diesel genset fuel is available to run the freezer a couple hours a day or what is necessary, and live off MREs and water after. No wife and kids. Pets: cats are obligate carnivores and if run out of food need a share of meat from the MRE portions. If dogs, they are omnivores and can eat what ever people don't want to eat. Water -should always have a 1 month supply per living creature.

For power though, it has to be budgeted daily depending on what is generated and what has to be used for security and minimal lighting. Exterior 1W LEDs at the doors should be useful and should be so as to shine in approaching eyes. Windows should be protected and curtained. I have 1/4" lexan externally on mine already because I got broken into a couple times.

all flashlights in the house have extra cells?
got candles or oil lamps?

For ham radio, only what is left over in the budget could be allowed except in case of higher emergency. It would make sense to try SWLing for communication partners on the hour at first, and TX with only the watts needed to be heard.

[k3msb]

That said, I have my doubts about getting any valuable, life saving information via amateur radio.

Hi Steve

Remember the good old days, where we envisioned pounding out critical CW messages when every sizeable city in the country had a mushroom cloud over it?  Gone for good (hopefully…..)

While I agree that getting "valuable, life saving information via amateur radio" is problematical, what a ham can provide to his neighbors is getting plain ordinary news / situation updates.   That is a more valuable service today than it was in yesteryear as today most people relay on heavily interconnected information delivery systems to get local and regional news.   With power gone for even a short while and cell phone towers out of battery power, people will probably have no means to get news. How many of your neighbors have a battery powered radio for emergency use?   Lack of information can lead to fear, anxiety, and eventually panic.  Being able to provide news to your neighbors could help ease that situation.  They may not like the news, but news is better than no news.

Just a few thoughts to add to the pot…..

[KB2WIG]

Vodka does not need to be refrigerated. Of course, I only would us it to disinfect water.

Critter controll.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=battery+powered+electric+fence&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=54926456311&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14277309703175428249&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_7wy4euqac_b

I've got metal doors in my house. They'll work for windows too. A nice supply of Pb would help.


klc

[W4EWH]

... I would be looking at Ham radio as a means to keep in contact with other people who may have some valuable , life saving information. I'm thinking along the lines of a major outage caused by mother nature or fellow human beings. Thinking about the worst case of months.

It's really hard to have a conversation about this without sounding sarcastic, so my apologies in advance if I come across that way.

So, FWIW, here are my concerns:

• We hams are, for the most part, not decision-makers in disaster response situations. All of the existing (and, most likely, any ad-hoc) networks are geared toward delivering information to the decision-makers, not to us.
• Of course, the value of information is relative: knowing that there are widespread outages may be comforting in a way, but it doesn't help me to find the one gas station or grocery store or hospital which is open and able to help me.
• All of our "life saving" systems are geared toward short term problems which can be addressed by first responders, with long-term followup handled by commercial vendors or, rarely, governments. The first responders are likely to be overloaded during any disaster, and the lucky few whom are able to make it to a place where they can access long term help will be confronted with a "How much can you pay?" welcome. The worst case is not months, but rather the interregnum between the onset of a widespread collapse of civil order and service delivery and the secondary phase of societal recovery.
  
  
  • Those whom depended on commercial vendors will find themselves with large credit card debts or unsecured commercial paper (IOU's), being collected by commercial organizations with a vast advantage in resources, ruthlessness, and reserves.
  • Survivalists whom were able to "bug out" to a defensible location or "bug in" to shelter in place will be left with dwindling resources, few usable skills, and ever-present demands from relatives, neighbors, and street stompers with rocks.
  
  

The MARS network has turned into a completely complicated organization to join and be involved with. They still communicate to each other as if they are using teletype machines...
Remember the carriage returns and NNNN. They are getting into digital comm using PSK31, I think. There were mounds and mounds of documentation that was needed to be read and tests to take online and submitted to the NCOIC or whatever it was. So I dropped out of MARS.

As much as I love Teletype machines, I'll agree that MARS is no longer viable as an alternative communications system. Its primary mission of handling traffic for GIs overseas has been obviated by the Internet, not to mention the shortage of GIs whom are overseas.

Navy/Marine Corps MARS will be dissolved this year. The Army and Air Force MARS systems will likely follow.

Solar power gets very involved with almost a completely separate power system with the maintenance of batteries. If something would happen in winter with solar power, we would be in some serious trouble as there can be a lot of cloudy days here in Western Pa.
I have been doing a lot of reading on a small system say, 3kw with inverter and batteries as a power source. I think the term that I want is an OFF-Grid system. I do not want to sell power back to the electric company. Nighttime the system would switch to the grid, when/if it is working. Or we switch everything off overnight to conserve the batteries. Possibly a gasoline generator or natural gas generator would provide power to recharge the batteries for the extended cloudy days of winter.

I spent a vacation in Belize in 2002, and stayed on an island with no commercial power. All the residents used solar, and they all spent a few minutes during every day checking on and maintaining their systems. I got the impression that it was like washing clothes or brushing teeth after a while; something they could skip if they chose, but only for a couple of days. Of course, islands in Belize don't have the same weather as Pennsylvania.

Maybe my thinking is way out in left field. Winter would be a nightmare.

No doubt, and Summer and Spring and Autumn too. The only part of our population which is likely to maintain a "normal" lifestyle during a months-long cessation of our food-delivery and civil infrastructure will be subsistence farmers, and even they will have to form collectives which maximize efficiencies and minimize external dependencies.

Sorry to be such a downer, but that's where these conversations always lead: there's no swelling music and rays of sun and fade to black like at the end of all the disaster movies.

W1AC

[Pete, WA2CWA]

My neighbors have battery radios. I have battery radios. I don't need amateur radio to get news. That might be even more scary and unbelievable.

[WD5JKO]

   What about protection? A couple of German Shepard's might come in handy. Perhaps have thick drapes, and a very quiet generator. If the outage is extensive, and prolonged, people will be be hungry. The sight of your home all illuminated at night, along with the roar of a generator might attract those you rather not have on your property..

Jim
Wd5JKO

[W1RKW]

I have 2 power back up systems a genset and a small solar setup.

For genset sizing, it was based on meeting 5 base needs; keeping food cold, heat in the winter, water, microwave and lights.  Wife doesn't like using the woods so had to power the well.  Ended up going with a 10kw unit.  It's probably more than necessary but it has sufficient headroom for the 300 ft well pump. It can power nearly everything the household including TV and ham station with nary a blink when the well cycles. Cannot power the A/C unit and the electric range is not factored in as well.  Heat is by fuel oil with baseboard hot water so no big blower to turn.  Boiler uses a couple of amps at 115V. No problem keeping the  807s cold with the fridge. and most of the lights work in the house.  the circuits for everything are controlled by a 10 circuit xfer switch.

As Jim stated keeping a low profile is a good thing and although I can light up the entire house I do not. And then there are other means for protection.  since roads were impassable during Sandy, Irene and the snow storm pretty much no need for lead sleeping pills.  Generator is turned off when it isn't needed to conserve fuel and tucked away in the garage for longer offline periods.

As far as the the shack goes, it can be powered by a small 12v  100w solar panel setup with 1kw true sinewave inverter on 2 deep cycle marine batts. It can either run a small HF rig via 12v if need be or a 100watt AC powered HF rig on lower power for a short periods of time for those times the genset isn't running. And also have the 2m/440 rig. And of course the CB for entertainment.

For the 3 New England storms mentioned earlier this QTH was out for 6 to 9 days depending on the storm. Of all those times radio was at the bottom of the list. Too busy keeping things together and helping neighbors.

[w1vtp]

We had sort of a "dry run" last thanksgiving day when we had no power for the entire day, into the night.  That was on the new generator, a 14 KW whole house unit.  The first pic is of my old 8 KW gas powered generator.  I couldn't see filling up that unit when I hit 80, two years down the road.  Also, the new one is wx proof

We conserve our usage that keeps our LP usage down.  Delivery of propane down

Al

[W4EWH]

What about protection? ... The sight of your home all illuminated at night, along with the roar of a generator might attract those you rather not have on your property..

Well, yes, that's a good idea from a security standpoint.

However, when our power went out and I had my generator running, the moment I proposed shutting it down my wife objected, saying that she wanted the neighbors to know we had lights!

As I said earlier, your is not the only agenda ...

W1AC

[Jim, W5JO]

If you have a gas generator it can be dangerous to store a large amount of fuel.  The proper storage cabinets are expensive and, if you are on a small lot placement can be a problem.  So best check the restrictions imposed by your local governments.

I have a 12 KW gen here and 4 five gallon cans of gas to fuel the generator and my yard equipment.  In the winter time I will fill my vehicle with the stored gas to keep it rotated.  I, too, put the marine version of Sta-Bil in the cans.  It and a couple more stabilizers are recommended if you have alcohol in your gas. 

Do be careful of Ethanol because over the long haul (30 days or more) it can separate and you may accidently start your generator on pure alcohol.  Despite what you read or hear about ethanol in small engines it will damage them.  The manufacturers were forced to say 10% is acceptable but repair stations report the majority of repairs are due to ethanol.  So be careful.  Here I have ready access to pure gasoline and that is all I purchase.

I have an older pickup that has a 35 gallon tank that I keep full, especially when the weather is challenging.  I purchased a hand operated pump with a long hose to siphon the fuel out of the pickup if needed.  I always hope no one needs it, but it is better to be prepared and have hot water than be cold, hungry and in the dark.