Timonium Hamfest

[KA3EKH]

Finally found someone who attended Timonium! I was at VCF East up in New Jersey and from what he tells me there were maybe six hundred or so people by his estimate and the center parking lot was far from full. That use to be where tailgating occurred but now is used for parking of attendees. Also was told that people selling socks, stupid LED lighting junk and other useless crap were the majority sellers with everything being more like a flea market then a Ham fest.
Although this is information from a second source I have no reason to believe it was not true, and have had a hard time finding anyone who attended. Is the once great Timonium Ham fest dead? Anyone want to say otherwise?
Don’t get me wrong, don’t want to start a thread about how ham fest and everything are all thru and all that because I have attend things like Frost fest and Dayton and although smaller than they once were they are far from what’s happening in Timonium.
The little Ham fest that they have at Howard County just outside Baltimore are still there and regularly attended but from what I hear I have no plans to attend Timonium again. How did this happen?

[W1ITT]

The content of the commercial displays is at the discretion of the organizers.  When K1RQG(sk), W1GWU, and I were running Hosstraders for 34 years we required that commercial vendors sold products directly related to Amateur Radio.  We discouraged the computer-stuff-only vendors.  As a dictatorship, this was our choice, and it cost us some revenue in the short term, but made for a "better" hamfest, at least as we defined it.
I am hesitant to criticize the Timonium crew, as I don't know what their expenses look like. It may well be that these vendors tip the balance sheet into the black and make the whole thing possible.  If it were a choice between having the socks, remote control toys and stationery vendors, and not being able to afford the rent that allows a hamfest at all, I guess I'd have to either rethink the rules... or call it a day.
I visited Timonium three or four years ago and had a good time, saw a few old friends and spent some money.  I noticed the socks and other dumb stuff, but I just walked by it and sought out the real radio goodies.  It isn't getting a bit easier to keep a hamfest in the black.  Anyone who believes that they have a new and better hamfest paradigm is encouraged to show us the True Way.

[Steve - K4HX]

The Timonium fest is officially the Greater Baltimore Hamboree and Computer Fest & Maryland State Convention. It is run by the Baltimore Amateur Radio Club and held at the Maryland State Fairgrounds in Timonium, MD. They added the Computer part to the name well over 10 years ago.

The fest used to occupy three of the buildings at the fairgrounds and the tailgating filled the entire center parking lot - I would guesstimate 300-400 tailgate spots. It was kinda like a rite of spring for me and many others. Over that past 10 years, the building count went to two and then one. The tailgating was moved to a different parking lot and the numbers were reduced by half and then half again. I haven't attended in 2-3 years. It's very likely I will not attend again, unless something changes.

Kinda sad. This was the second largest fest in the MD, PA, VA, DE, NJ area behind Gaithersburg (FARFest). Now both of those fests are essentially gone. I don't know the costs for Timonium, but I would imagine that the rent on the fairgrounds is rather large. Increasing rent is what killed the FARFest. Montgomery county made a huge increase in the rental cost of the county fairground. FAR couldn't afforded it and move to Bowie, MD. That move broke the momentum and spelled the end of a once great fest. The last year the FARfest was held at Gaitherburg (1998, IIRC), the attendance exceed 10,000. FARfest was a one day fest, so 10k is big. My guess that at the peak, Timonium has 1/2 to 2/3 the number of Gaithersburg, but over two day (still pretty big).

[Jim, W5JO]

What is sad is the numbers at hamfests pale in comparison to Star Trek conventions. Seems as if kids and young adults are more interested in fantasy than reality.

[W3GMS]

The Timonium fest is officially the Greater Baltimore Hamboree and Computer Fest & Maryland State Convention.
Over that past 10 years, the building count went to two and then one. The tailgating was moved to a different parking lot and the numbers were reduced by half and then half again. I haven't attended in 2-3 years. It's very likely I will not attend again, unless something changes.

I believe the tailgating was eliminated several years back as well.  That's when I stopped going. 

Joe, GMS 

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Outside tailgating was eliminated several years ago. They do have "basic indoor" space, which is tailgating-style. I stopped going a number of years ago. Vendor support by the organizers had been going downhill for a number of years. As a "semi-commercial" vendor I had to weigh the expenses incurred versus the return on investment as most vendors normally do. Unfortunately, the returns weren't there any more. Many vendors go to sell their wares to turn over their inventory (whether used or new) and generally aren't there for group hugs, belly bumping, or male bonding. If the investment returns aren't there, they don't come back. It makes no sense to do so. When vendor attendance goes down, consolidation of spaces generally follows, and customer attendance starts to drop. Generally, I've found my small local hamfests to be far more attractive to attend. Expense costs are generally low, so even a minimal return can be positive.

Looking at Dayton, they're experiencing similar type issues there too. Several years ago, they created several additional "walkways" in the flea market area. It cut away spaces, and created corner spots where they could charge an additional $30 ($70 for non corner spot) for each space at a corner. Even in the commercial vendor area a number of the vendors (large and small), who are still active in the business, no longer attend Dayton. Again, for the most part, all the expense costs were weighing heavily on any return on investment. The returns just weren't there to make it worthwhile. Many non attending vendors opt to run "special pricing" on many items during the time of Dayton activities. As a look down the list of attending vendors in the commercial area, the number of non-radio type products seems to be increasing each year. As far as the flea market area, I suspect it will continue on. There are still many "good old boys" that come out of the woods or down off their mountain to turn over all the stuff they accumulated or bought over the previous year at Dayton. Recycling or regurgitation in process.

For those that like statistics:
Dayton Flea Market area
2009 - ~2256 spaces - 1624 paid
2010 - 2256 spaces - 1689 paid
2011 - 2232 spaces - 1795 paid
2012 - 2210 spaces - 1685 paid
2013 - 2208 spaces - 1702 paid
2014 - 2218 spaces - 1250 paid as of 4/4/14
Note that these paid vendor numbers do not include any "walk-in" vendors on opening day.

[W2INR]

The Timonium Hamfest

In the 90's that really meant something. For myself it was the beginning of the summer hamfest season.

I remember taking the Friday and Thursday off before the Saturday event. I would climb into my car on Thursday morning and make my way to my friend Dave's place. Dave, Pam and myself would hang out in the shack or on the porch and drink, laugh and just have a great old time. Laugh our asses off!!

Friday morning we would all climb into our cars and head south. We would gather with our friends in Baltimore and a gang of 10+ would run wild in the streets neon surfing, eating, and just hanging out. More laughing until it hurts!!

Saturday brought the Timonium fester and it was always a good one followed by a stop at the Slab Bacon's shack to recharge, get some great food and hang with friends.  - --  - I find myself with a smile from ear to ear - - - - I guess that says it all.

[Steve - K4HX]

We didn't know it then, but those were the days my friend.   

[W2INR]

Yes they were Steve

G

[W2JRO]

The Rochester, NY fest is in essentially the same boat..although change of venue and power struggle inside the sponsoring club was a major factor as well.

This fest isn't even being held this year...they say they will be back in '15, but we know how often that doesn't pan out.
IMHO, after Dayton, Nearfest has to be the best of what's left at least on the East Coast

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

The word last year or before was that the reason for the end of tailgating at Timonium was due to the taxman visiting anyone selling outside. They are certainly fond of the tax dollars in that state, but I think from what I saw previously it was a much deeper problem. Primarily the JUNK being sold not even remotely related to radio or even electronics. It was like that from the first time I attended and only got worse. That will kill a fest faster than anything else. Hosstraders moved locations numerous times over the years and managed to keep their audience.

We didn't know it then, but those were the days my friend.   

You guys who attended back in the halcyon days of the event must have some wonderful memories. I can remember when we were tailgating there sometime last decade and you pointed to the large upper parking lot and said how that area used to be packed with tailgaters. Easily 2-3 times or more larger than the area we were in. Gaithersburg too, already a mere shadow when I finally got there.

Still plenty of good memories, primarily hanging out at Crazy Lil's and Fell's Point, as well as the long walk between with some interesting opportunities for relief. 

And of course, the (in)famous gathering at Slab & Carol's place afterward. At least we adapted. As things changed, we took advantage of the opportunity to enjoy the social aspects more and more.

[k3msb]

Hi Todd

I heard a different word last year.  The fair grounds said that outdoor tailgating would be allowed if BARC rented both buildings.  They could not afford to do that.  So, one building and no outdoor tailgating.

I think this was from a BARC member that posted on eHam.com, but I can't remember the source.

[KA3EKH]

I attended Timonium or whatever they call it today for many years. When they allowed tailgating in the center lot I was always there selling and buying. Also tailgated when things were downgraded to the little lot on the side. In all those years never had anyone ask or show up looking for sales tax collection but have to say that for me tailgating was a side line and the big advantage was having the truck in on the grounds and being able to drag all the big and heavy junk that I bought back to the location. When they said that you would have to park outside and carry all your junk in or out and you had to provide your own tables and the like that’s when it was over for me. I did attend every year except this but think it’s over for me, at least at Timonium. Howard county, Frost fest and Dayton are all still on the list along with some of the little local fests.

[KB5MD]

One thing that would improve attendance in this part of the country would be some coordination of scheduling.  It seems that every year there are two or three conflicting
hamfest dates.  For several years the Monroe, La. hamfest was held on the same date as Belton, Tx. and this year Ft. Smith Ar. hamfest was the same day as Monroe.
All of these hamfests are within driving distance, but one has to make a choice as to which to attend, due to the conflicts.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Hosstraders moved locations numerous times over the years and managed to keep their audience.

The reality is that it's the only really "big" hamfest (other then Boxboro every two years) you have in that part of New England and it could probably move around the state from year to year and you would still keep the majority of the audience. Where else would they go to do their thing. 

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Hi Todd

I heard a different word last year.  The fair grounds said that outdoor tailgating would be allowed if BARC rented both buildings.  They could not afford to do that.  So, one building and no outdoor tailgating.

I think this was from a BARC member that posted on eHam.com, but I can't remember the source.

I also heard that from one of regular attendees.  I think there were also some issue with increased property and liability insurance rates that the club would have to pay but no sure where I heard/read that.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

One thing that would improve attendance in this part of the country would be some coordination of scheduling.  It seems that every year there are two or three conflicting
hamfest dates.  For several years the Monroe, La. hamfest was held on the same date as Belton, Tx. and this year Ft. Smith Ar. hamfest was the same day as Monroe.
All of these hamfests are within driving distance, but one has to make a choice as to which to attend, due to the conflicts.

You should live the Northeast. We always seem to have various hamfests on the same dates from May through September and many of them with only an hour or two of driving time to get there. Most of us have learned to "make the choice" and "take the chance". Sometimes, if you're real desperate and start real early, you can make two in one day.

[W3GMS]

The fester at Mulica Hill, NJ is still a pretty good one.  I did not go for many years and started up going to that one several years back.  Lots of good gear and it was a good one.  I hear Sussex, NJ has a good one and plan to make that one this year.  Its a haul from my location but from what I hear worth going to.  Kutztown, PA has two festers per year.  Those are mainly dealing with old broadcast sets but occasionally you can find some other stuff as well. 

Some of the small festers can produce some good stuff as well.  I attending the Reading Hamfest last year and it was along a dirt driveway but saw plenty of good stuff at great prices.   

Joe, GMS     

[VE3AJM]

In this area between Windsor ON in the west and Montreal QC in the east, we have about 15 hamfests of varying sizes per year. Most years even with some decline, you can find almost anything you might want with vintage equipment and parts, tubes and components. Every year is a little different of course.

Quite a few of these events are mostly supported by rank and file hams and the clubs, and not commercial/semi commercial vendors. I attend to let some of the overflow stuff go from here, and for the social aspect of getting together with the friends we chat with on AM. 

Al VE3AJM

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Hi Todd

I heard a different word last year.  The fair grounds said that outdoor tailgating would be allowed if BARC rented both buildings.  They could not afford to do that.  So, one building and no outdoor tailgating.

I think this was from a BARC member that posted on eHam.com, but I can't remember the source.

That could very well be, Mark. I also read the comments online so who knows? Regardless of either or both being true, I still think the huge amount of unrelated junk plays the biggest role. Other than hanging out with the guys tailgating and roaming through the stuff in the parking lot, I attended mainly to see old friends and new, the night before and day after the event. I don't recall ever selling much there.

Can't imagine what it must be like for the regulars you see at many fest who set up 4, 5, even 10 tables, only to have someone one one side of you with huge boxes of stinky used clothing for sale, and someone on the other side selling old lawn chairs, broken lawn mowers, and a pile of old Sports Illustrated magazines.

The reality is that it's the only really "big" hamfest (other then Boxboro every two years) you have in that part of New England and it could probably move around the state from year to year and you would still keep the majority of the audience. Where else would they go to do their thing. 

If that's true Pete, Timonium should still be thriving with the end of Gaithersburg and whatever else. Can't think of any others in MD, big or otherwise. Plenty of smaller ones like Berryville, Manassas & Richmond in surrounding states, but that's true of New England, too. Portland ME, Henniker NH, Milton (now Colchester) VT, and the weekly MIT meet in MA come to mind.

Same goes for Rochester, NY. What other 'big' alternatives are there in that area?

[W3GMS]

Lets not forget about the BEST Hamfest in the world, NEARfest!! 

Joe, GMS

[K4TQF]

Blame it on the taxman or socks or whatever...but the reality is we are all getting older and just don't support any of the hamfests, as we did in the past. I don't know of one single fest that has grown over time. Just my 2 cents worth... 

[KA2DZT]

Blame it on the taxman or socks or whatever...but the reality is we are all getting older and just don't support any of the hamfests, as we did in the past. I don't know of one single fest that has grown over time. Just my 2 cents worth...  

Welcome to the AM Forum.

OK FB on your 2 cents worth.  But, here on the Forum we have a minimum of 3.5 cents worth.

Again welcome,

Fred

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Increasing rent is what killed the FARFest. Montgomery county made a huge increase in the rental cost of the county fairground. FAR couldn't afforded it and move to Bowie, MD. That move broke the momentum and spelled the end of a once great fest. The last year the FARfest was held at Gaitherburg (1998, IIRC), the attendance exceed 10,000. FARfest was a one day fest, so 10k is big. My guess that at the peak, Timonium has 1/2 to 2/3 the number of Gaithersburg, but over two day (still pretty big).

Some clarification here:
FARfest was at Gaithersburg, MD until 1998; it then moved to Bowie, MD until 2001; it then combined with the CARA group for 2003 and 2004 at the Howard County Fairgrounds; it then returned to Gaithersburg in 2004, 2005, and 2006 where it shared outdoor space with the gay rodeo activities. The 2007 hamfest was announced, then canceled, and with the note to return in 2008. It never did.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The reality is that it's the only really "big" hamfest (other then Boxboro every two years) you have in that part of New England and it could probably move around the state from year to year and you would still keep the majority of the audience. Where else would they go to do their thing.  

If that's true Pete, Timonium should still be thriving with the end of Gaithersburg and whatever else. Can't think of any others in MD, big or otherwise. Plenty of smaller ones like Berryville, Manassas & Richmond in surrounding states, but that's true of New England, too. Portland ME, Henniker NH, Milton (now Colchester) VT, and the weekly MIT meet in MA come to mind.

Same goes for Rochester, NY. What other 'big' alternatives are there in that area?

Years ago there were actually two hamfests at the Maryland State Fairgrounds. The one we commonly call Timonium (generally held late March/early April) run by the Greater Baltimore Hamboree and the other, generally held in July called BRATS. Their last hamfest at the Maryland State Fairgrounds was 2004 and then they moved it out of there to the Howard Country Fairgrounds. I suspect expense costs were probably the driving issue.

Timonium was already languishing when FARfest finally closed the door with the cancellation of their hamfest in 2008.  Small hamfests can hang in there because generally their expense costs are low.

You said/asked: "Same goes for Rochester, NY. What other 'big' alternatives are there in that area?"

Within "easy" driving distance of Rochester, is the Breezeshooters hamfest in Butler, PA.  Probably one of the hamfests  in the Northeast that has seen constant growth over the years is the Sussex, NJ hamfest in Northwestern NJ. Right at the corner of PA, NY, and NJ it's easy accessible from major roads and interstates. Back in the early years, I could set up my tables in the building and still have some time before opening bell to walk the flea market area. This generally means walking briskly and not stopping at every table. Over the last several years, I'm lucky if I can cover a quarter of the flea market. The location of this hamfest is an easy drive from the Rochester area and even from the New England area. It's not uncommon to see a number of New England AM'ers at the Sussex hamfest.