VOIP for remote control?

[K2PG]

For years, I have remotely controlled my NJ site by using two regular telephone lines, one for transmit/receive audio and one for the remote control telemetry. The telemetry is an AFSK signal at 300 baud. Since I do not have a steady job at this time, I have to cancel the phone lines, taking my station off the air. Would any of you know how I could send a bi-directional stereo pair over the Internet? I would use one channel for the audio and the other for telemetry. The receive audio from that site is a kind of backhaul for maintaining contact when I get a fade on my local receiver in Pennsylvania. The telemetry is over two AFSK "channels", one of much lower frequency than the other. One provides control from the "studio" end while the other provides metering from the transmitter end of the circuit.

Any of you computer savvy guys know how I could do this? Please let me know. I would like to set up two Linux boxes with the appropriate software, using some kind of inexpensive Internet service at the NJ site.

Thanks,
Phil

[W3GMS]

Phil,
Since your still going to use your AF tone encode / decode remote scheme, you may want to look into Skype.  I have never used Skype, but I do hear good things about it.  I would think you could set up two Skype accounts and use one path for your tx audio path and another one to do your remote monitoring functions. 

I know there are many ways to do this in a much more modern way which would be totally digital, but since you use to your remote gear with AF tones Skype may be your answer. 

Talk to Bob, HM about the details.

Joe, GMS     

[W3RSW]

I use TeamViewer, tm to remotely control a base computer from anywhere else including an iPad, e. g., the QS1r with HdSdR or the native SDRMaxV.
Not sure this is quite what you want with the stereo pairs individually signaled.

But everything comes over the internet, audio and an exact copy of what's on the base computer screen.  If the bandwidth pass is restricted by your WAN, etc., team viewer automatically changes the base computer to 32 color and min. Windows 7 Resolution.

[wa3dsp]

Phil,

 It sounds like what you were doing predated most of the latest technology. Remote'ing rigs and in particular receivers is a common thing anymore. SDR or software defined radio works well in this way.

I have used a Softrock receiver with sdr-radio software for several years as a remote site receiver when I am at my vacation property in NJ. The RX noise level is higher there and the remote receiver come in handy. All control is done on one udp port over the Internet. It does not matter if it is on your own lan or anywhere in the world as long as it is routed.

sdr-radio supports a slew of modes and options including synchronous AM. In none of this do you have to worry about data (signaling) channels vs. audio channels. That is all handled by the SW. You have complete control over the remote RX's receive frequency window. All of the signal processing is done at the local end.

sdr-radio is free software written by simon who writes ham radio deluxe. The softrocks are very inexpensive sdr receivers that interface via usb and a soundcard to a windows computer.

There are also many other SDR software options all of which are free.

There are a ton of options out there to setup a remote receiver. Some require a little more cash outlay but are worth it. I recently purchased an Afedri SDR receiver that fits in the palm of your hand and connects directly to the Internet via a lan connection. No remote computer is required. This is an ideal remote receiver covering basically 0-30mhz and totally remote controllable. Throw up  an antenna, connect it to the RX, connect the RX to to Internet, and you have a remote RX site. It works excellently with sdr-radio. 

The other advantage of a remote sdr receiver is bandwidth. The Afredri
can view up to 2 mhz of spectrum at a time if you have the Internet bandwidth at both ends. Of course you select the station you want to listen to out of that bandwidth.

Carrying this a step farther you can also transmit remotely using SDR and of course many of the higher end modern radios allow this directly others can be used remotely with external hardware.

I realize you have financial concerns but just wanted to let you know there is a whole new way to do this with lots of advantages. I would suspect that eliminating two dedicated phone lines would more than pay for the cost of a modest SDR RX in less than a year.
 
sdr-radio.com
http://softrocksdr.wikispaces.com/
http://wb5rvz.com/sdr/
http://www.afedri-sdr.com/

[K2PG]

The station that is/was remotely controlled consists of a Collins 20V-2 broadcast transmitter and an R-390 receiver. The remote control unit that is currently connected to those is an old Burk TC-8, which uses two AFSK pairs. The lower frequency pair comes from the transmitter end and is for metering. The higher frequency pair comes from the control point and carries the control telemetry: filaments on/off, plate on/off, etc. Yes, it's old technology. The TC-8 was manufactured over 30 years ago. But it works well and gives me a fail safe, which automatically shuts down the transmitter, filaments and all, if the telemetry link is broken...no dead carriers on the air if one of my cats pulls the phone wire out of the jack.

I am in a state of financial crisis right now. The last thing I can afford is a new SDR radio; in fact, I may soon have to sell everything and move in with a relative if I don't find a steady job.

If any of you know how I can get two bidirectional audio streams over the Internet, it would be most appreciated. The phone lines are going away on Thursday (2/13), so my station in NJ will be off the air, except for those times when I actually go there to check on things or to look for work in that area.

[steve_qix]

It sounds as if you need Audio Over Internet Protocol (Audio Over IP) usually called AoIP.  There are commercial off the shelf products that do this.  I don't know how cheap they are (or are not), but it can be done.  You can also do it with 2 computers and the appropriate software.

You can definitely emulate a radio loop if you use an audio transformer at each end of an unbalanced system.  If balanced, you're all set

There are VoIP solutions that emulate a POTS line, but most of the ones I saw required a back-end service of some kind.  Since this is a closed system, AoIP might be a good solution.  Some of them have multiple channels.

[wa3dsp]

When you mentioned VOIP a bell went off here. I had not thought of that.

Asterisk is a good choice and could be setup at both locations to send multiple voice channels. It would however require some computer knowledge and hardware setup. All you need is an Internet connection between the two locations. It could even be a rather slow Internet connection as long as that was the only application using the bandwidth.

I have used Asterisk here for over 10 years for my home phone PBX and I connect a remote property over the Internet as an extension of my main properties PBX. Think of it as a free phone connection between two site. That is free minus the cost of the Internet connection at both ends. As long as you have the Internet connection you can setup as many phone connections between the two points as you desire

Also as an extension of Asterisk is Allstar which is like echolink or IRLP but with much better audio and control. It can be run in a private mode between two locations very easily. I run it here but not as a private node. Asterisk and Allstar are full duplex. You could setup two connections, one for data and one for full duplex RX/TX audio to and from your remote site. Allstar has some radio control capability built-in.

Asterisk also works well on the Raspberry Pi micro computer.

There are all kinds of possibilities. But I am afraid most require a learning curve and/or some funding.

http://nerdvittles.com/?p=8222

[flintstone mop]

What Phil might be looking for is something he can put together without a lot of cash.
There would have to be some interface between the computer and the TC8 stuff to connect the audio paths together from Phil's Pa. site to New Jersey.
DSP might have a nice solution using Asterisk.
Fred

[Steve - K4HX]

Can DTMF tones be sent over VOIP or Skype? Lots of cheap DTMF controllers out there or designs to build your own.

[w8khk]

This may be a long shot, but I have an idea that might help.

One of the concerns with remote controlling a transmitter is you need absolute control if you need to shut it down.  Using some of the software apps, like skype, might have glitches that require manual intervention at the transmitter side, which is unattended.   I have had lots of experience remotely maintaining and installing software on servers around the world over HPNET and the internet when working for HP.  We relied on a hardware device that could be remotely controlled and also reset remotely if there was any operational snag. 

The device we used, before the hardware was built into the server to remotely control at the hardware level over the internet, was called a "secure web console".   Basically it is a hardware web server that interfaces to an RS-232 serial port.  You place it on the network via an RJ-45 cable to your internet at the remote site, and configure it with a routable, remotely accessible address over the internet.   You then connect to it with any browser.  It brings up a window, and anything you type into the window appears at the serial port at the remote site.  Anything sent to the serial port at the remote site appears in the browser window.  This would enable you to confirm that any command sent was successfully processed.

If you were able to build an interface that would receive a serial RS232 command, and control your remote equipment, your remote control link problem would be solved. 

Instead of building something hardwired, a simple arduino processor could interface to the serial port and actuate relays, etc.  Or you could use a "Jumpstart" TI 430  processor which costs only $4.30 and is easy to program, with serial and parallel interfaces.

Google the HP product number "J3591A" and you will be able to look at the documentation for the secure web console.  If you think this might help solve your remote control problem, it is yours for the cost of shipping.  Not even one pound, with power supply.  You could put it on your local network with an RJ-45 cable and evaluate whether it might be a viable component of your remote control solution.  The important thing is it is a reliable device that can be controlled remotely and does not need someone to diddle with a remote computer to get it back online if there is a glitch.  One valuaboe  feature is that it can be controlled from any remote device with a browser....  Computer, tablet, phone, what have you.  You could define simple or complex commands with just simple text, rather than needing tones and generators or decoders.  It allows you to set a username and password so you have control of who may access your remote equipment.

I hope this may be of some help to your remote control ham station goals.

73, Rick

[wa3dsp]

Can DTMF tones be sent over VOIP or Skype? Lots of cheap DTMF controllers out there or designs to build your own.

Yes, once you establish the connection anything within the available audio range can be sent. Depending on the system, allstar, asterisk, and what you have setup there are specific DTMF control sequences that might be reserved for system commands but plenty of others available.

[W3GMS]

Phil,
Since your still going to use your AF tone encode / decode remote scheme, you may want to look into Skype.  I have never used Skype, but I do hear good things about it.  I would think you could set up two Skype accounts and use one path for your tx audio path and another one to do your remote monitoring functions. 
I know there are many ways to do this in a much more modern way which would be totally digital, but since you use to your remote gear with AF tones Skype may be your answer. 
Talk to Bob, HM about the details.
Joe, GMS     

I see all these state of the art technology solutions, but I asked a question very early in this thread and never saw an answer to my question.  I was offering it as a possible simple solution to Phil's requirement.   If it would work, what would be required to make it work?

Thanks,
Joe, W3GMS

       

[N2DTS]

I am not a geek, but it seems like it should be simple to have two seperate audio channels out of the sound cards on internet connected computers at each end.

A google search of free software came up with a lot, including these below:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/download/Software-Voice-Over-IP,0702-7013.html?dldLicenceType=Freeware

[W1RKW]

Arduino

[John K5PRO]

Phil, sticking with the broadcast technology, a lot of small stations use Barrix boxes these days to haul audio from studio to TX via ethernet. They can be found used. But I don't about backhaul and your R/C being failsafe.

I have been thinking about how to control my BC TX in the garage (separate building) from my shack in the house. I'd like to be able to tune and readback as well.

[flintstone mop]

Phil,
Since your still going to use your AF tone encode / decode remote scheme, you may want to look into Skype.  I have never used Skype, but I do hear good things about it.  I would think you could set up two Skype accounts and use one path for your tx audio path and another one to do your remote monitoring functions. 
I know there are many ways to do this in a much more modern way which would be totally digital, but since you use to your remote gear with AF tones Skype may be your answer. 
Talk to Bob, HM about the details.
Joe, GMS     

I see all these state of the art technology solutions, but I asked a question very early in this thread and never saw an answer to my question.  I was offering it as a possible simple solution to Phil's requirement.   If it would work, what would be required to make it work?

Thanks,
Joe, W3GMS

       

Hi Joe......It seems to me that, with Skype, a person on the other end (Phil's N.J. TX site) has to accept the video call to start the process.
K5PRO has an idea where the internet connection is always alive and some control tones will activate the TX and pass his audio back and forth.
There may be a fail safe feature to go into immediate shut down if something is very wrong.
What is complicating all of this is Phil would have two internet connection bills to pay.
Fred

[WBear2GCR]

This may be a long shot, but I have an idea that might help.
<snip>

Google the HP product number "J3591A" and you will be able to look at the documentation for the secure web console.  If you think this might help solve your remote control problem, it is yours for the cost of shipping.  Not even one pound, with power supply.  You could put it on your local network with an RJ-45 cable and evaluate whether it might be a viable component of your remote control solution.  The important thing is it is a reliable device that can be controlled remotely and does not need someone to diddle with a remote computer to get it back online if there is a glitch.  One valuaboe  feature is that it can be controlled from any remote device with a browser....  Computer, tablet, phone, what have you.  You could define simple or complex commands with just simple text, rather than needing tones and generators or decoders.  It allows you to set a username and password so you have control of who may access your remote equipment.


I hope this may be of some help to your remote control ham station goals.

73, Rick

Rick,

The software seems to be MIA.

Can't even find the spec sheet... found a "users manual"  but it is really just an installation manual.

Seems like an interesting product. Maybe useful for us cheap hams.

But, how would one use this product AND send the audio for modulation??
What would one do on the control side, for example to do PTT?
What sort of code is going to be needed??

I am moderately aware of computer stuff, but not really up to date.

Any advice ideas would be good.

             _-_-

[wa3dsp]

Skype would be a simple option. It does have an auto answer mode, so no one has to be at the receiving end. Many HF remote systems utilize Skype for the audio and those that I have heard sound good. I am not sure what codec Skype uses but it would probably be adequate for what you are doing.

I don't know if Skype is dual channel in both directions - stereo - if so you could utilize one channel for data and the other for voice. If not you might have a problem establishing two channels with just one computer. You can't open multiple Skype sessions on the same computer. In that case you would need two computers at both ends to establish the two channels.

Skype is a Windows program and requires that a computer is running and connected to the Internet at both ends.

For me it would be a whole lot easier to use Asterisk Allstar which would give you as many full duplex channels as you wanted between point A and B using one computer. It is one of the modes that is used extensively to network repeaters.