VRL Globe King

[Jim, W5JO]

Wasn't the VRL GK build/designed by W6CHR

It is although am not sure about the jail thing.  That is a poor design and I do hope whoever bought it reads what Larry Rau had to say about it before they spend a lot of money.  The one he spend a lot of time with never worked and the guy who owned it spent a LOT of money.  That one wound up on Ebay but didn't sell.  Not sure where it is today.  To my knowledge there were only three of them built.

[Jim, W5JO]

That link was already posted in this thread.

C

What hasn't been posted is the article by Larry Rau written some years back where he documented the poor design and construction of the one I mentioned earlier.  The last I saw it was on eHam but I can't find it.  One thing I do remember is one of the power transformers does double duty in a couple of the stages.  Note in the pictures there are only two decks.  As I recall the power supply in the VRL provides all voltages to everything in the set and that didn't work too well, where as the original Globe King has a power supply for the RF deck and one for the modulation deck.

It will be interesting to see what this guy finds as he goes through it.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Previous Thread on the VRL, here:
http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=28525.75

FWIW,  may kinna be off-topic,  and so on,   Vic

You probably should start one Page 1 of the link: http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=28525.0

Here's an old link with some pictures: http://www.angelfire.com/alt/myvintageradio/

[K6IC]

Yes Jim,  you are correct ... went searching on Larry's exhaustive treatise on the 500D problems and proposed fixes,  but could not find it.

Clark,  Yes,  SRI for  posting something that you had posted,  but need to up my post-count!

Pete,  Yes,  no surprise,  you are correct ... just shoot me!

Vic da LID

[VE3AJM]

I can recall listening in on a QSO in the early 2000s with a station in New York, I think his name was Paul, in Long Island going on about having bought this VRL GB500, and all the problems he had with it. It wasn't working properly/at all, and he was in QSO at that time with Jaimie KF2VM, and it sounded like Jaimie was joining to try and get the tx going for him.

Al

[WA3VJB]

I went back and dug up some old email.

Part of what I wrote, circa 2008 -- was that I had been researching the possibility of an article on the new Globe King.

His business partner (and website manager) confirmed to me in a phone call that Groome had no production line, no standard pattern for construction, and no inventory of parts.  Essentially he was taking orders (with substantial cash up front) and then building homebrew transmitters, each of which was cobbled together from whatever odd parts he could round up.

This same business partner told me Groome had severe health problems and would never be able to build to a deadline.  After later seeing a "new" digital VFO version of his replica "Globe King," I wondered whether claims of bad health were part of the questionable business practices as well.

He never directly returned my phone calls and I dropped the proposed coverage idea. Last contact information I had  --

Chuck's VCR & TV Shoppe
3059 Clarksville St
Paris, TX 75460-7915
(903) 784-8417

Vintage Radio Retail Store
2165 NW Loop 286
Paris, TX 75460
903-785-2077

[ke7trp]

Yeah.. Big deal. We all know they never worked. Rip it apart and fix it. Its a 4-400 and a couple 811's..  Not that big of a deal ya know?  It has good iron and some nice parts.

People are like sharks. They smell blood and they all come running!  Lets get the ropes! 

C

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

People are like sharks. They smell blood and they all come running!  Lets get the ropes! 

Huh? All I've seen is a number of members offering parts or other assistance, some comments on the original builder/seller and poor execution of the original design.

What hasn't been posted is the article by Larry Rau written some years back where he documented the poor design and construction of the one I mentioned earlier.  The last I saw it was on eHam but I can't find it. 

When we last flogged this dead horse a year or so back, I pointed out then that the article was gone from eHam. Someone mentioned that they do purges from time to time clearing out data. I thought perhaps it was more related to the subject matter and person of questionable character. Would be nice to have it preserved somewhere for posterity. I communicate with Larry now and then, I'll see if he still have it saved anywhere.

Larry mentioned a number of issues including the flimsy construction overall, too much weight on too thin of a chassis, parts running at or beyond their ratings, and poor design work. IIRC, the one he rebuilt was for a fellow in Long Island(likely the same guy Tim heard) who had spent a lot of money to get the rig only to be greeted by a transmitter that never worked right (or at all?), then spending a LOT more to ship it to CA where Larry reworked it and documented the process.

While I don't see it ever being rare or desirable, clearly the rig has some excellent bits for rebuilding. I wish the new owner good luck in making something good from the ruins. There's plenty to work with.

BTW, the W6 referred to was a member here briefly. He joined when N2LEN was looking for a new SX-88 bezel, miraculously offering new bezels in the Classifieds. I think he's the only member ever removed from 'fone based solely on reputation. It did not please him.

You probably should start one Page 1 of the link: http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=28525.0

That's a very revealing thread well beyond the actual VRL topic. Wow. 

 

[Pete, WA2CWA]

That's a very revealing thread well beyond the actual VRL topic. Wow. 

We had a little bit of everything and "everyone" in that thread. 

[KD8PIQ]

I got the power supply deck on the work bench now for testing.  I will be checking voltages on the deck on my variac, and a 1000:1 voltage divider I built for my Fluke 114. 

Here are some "NEW" Pic's never seen before from what I can gather, other then the few that have been inside of these radios.

I am a full time father of 3, and we home school.  So I do not have much time to spend on this project, so please forgive me for my long time taken.

I hope you all enjoy these pic's!  I will have more info as I get there.



73's!  de KD8PIQ

[ke7trp]

Very nice Iron!  Its fortified for sure! 

The build quality is better then I expected.  Lots of negative press by a couple old kodgers on the web about those transmitters.  I am sure you can get this going and it will be great!

C

[n2len]

I agree!
It's pretty cool to see that the Dahl iron tags actually say VR Globe King...
Thanks for sharing all these pictures. You are right, it's great to actually see the real idea really up close!

[WD5JKO]

Nice pieces, and great looking iron! The high voltage bleeder resistor bottom might be marginally insulated. See picture attached.

Jim
WD5JKO

[KD8PIQ]

Nice pieces, and great looking iron! The high voltage bleeder resistor bottom might be marginally insulated. See picture attached.

Jim
WD5JKO

Yes; it might find more insulator when I get into her.  Thank you for pointing that out!

de KD8PIQ

[KD8PIQ]

I removed the resistor from the deck, and cut (2) pc of MSHA HV isolation sealing tape and layered them over each other, then poked a hole through
for the mounting stud (all-thread). 

Then at the top, added (2) separate insulators for added spacing from the terminal junction.   

 

[VE3AJM]

The Dahl transformers are nice.

I'm curious to see some close ups of the RF deck when you have the chance to take some. I know that some of the components in the WRL GK 500s were marginal, especially anything that had any modulated B+ voltage on it.

Al VE3AJM

[Opcom]

At least the parts are new-ish and should not have problems. It should be done to your liking regardless of anything else.

[Jim, W5JO]

I know that some of the components in the WRL GK 500s were marginal, especially anything that had any modulated B+ voltage on it.

Al VE3AJM

I wonder about this conclusion Al.  What makes you think this?

[KD8PIQ]

The Dahl transformers are nice.

I'm curious to see some close ups of the RF deck when you have the chance to take some. I know that some of the components in the WRL GK 500s were marginal, especially anything that had any modulated B+ voltage on it.

Al VE3AJM

After the power supply/modulator deck pass my requirements, I will then pull the RF deck.  I will be sure to keep this thread noted with information, and HD pic's.  You will also find video later along the project.

Take care!!
73's, de KD8PIQ

[KD8PIQ]

Put her on the Yack tonight, after putting a 1 ohm, 20W shunt in series with the main AC power input
to read if there is an abnormal reading in excessive current draw with my DMM.

So far so good.  You can clearly see in the pic, the amp draw is less then an amp at this point.
Check out that nice warm velvet glow from the VFO's Oa2!

 I did find the 6l6 had a bad grid leak, so removed it; and wanted to test w/o the 811a's.  I do have a few extra 6l6 tubes,
and plan more testing with tubes installed soon.

[VE3AJM]

I know that some of the components in the WRL GK 500s were marginal, especially anything that had any modulated B+ voltage on it.

Al VE3AJM

I wonder about this conclusion Al.  What makes you think this?

Jim, I owned a Globe King 500A a few years back and have built a few HB txs in the 500 watt class. My GK500A needed a lot of work and I sold it to a buddy of mine who kept me appraised of his repairs/improvements to the transmitter.

Looking at the RF deck.. the bandswitch/bandswitch contacts,, the final tank coil itself, the phenolic material that the coil was wound on, the size and spacing of the plate tuning capacitor all appeared to be what you might expect to see in a 100 watt output class transmitter, not a 500 watt dc input plate modulated AM rig, especially the plate tuning capacitor.

I have a Johnson Viking 500 for comparison. The tank circuit components are massive in contrast to the GK500. The Viking isn't a perfect tx either of course. 

Al VE3AJM

[Jim, W5JO]

Jim, I owned a Globe King 500A a few years back and have built a few HB txs in the 500 watt class. My GK500A needed a lot of work and I sold it to a buddy of mine who kept me appraised of his repairs/improvements to the transmitter.

Looking at the RF deck.. the bandswitch/bandswitch contacts,, the final tank coil itself, the phenolic material that the coil was wound on, the size and spacing of the plate tuning capacitor all appeared to be what you might expect to see in a 100 watt output class transmitter, not a 500 watt dc input plate modulated AM rig, especially the plate tuning capacitor.

I have a Johnson Viking 500 for comparison. The tank circuit components are massive in contrast to the GK500. The Viking isn't a perfect tx either of course. 

Al VE3AJM

Ok Al, I understand your conclusion now.  I have one that I have used for the past 10 years without issue.  Granted the components cannot stand very high voltages they are, however adequate for the power level stated.

Where one would really have trouble is if you suddenly lost an antenna or tried to transmit into an open.  That would cause a lot of problems.  Not only would the tune cap arc but it is very possible to puncture one or more of the fixed mica caps in the output circuit.  Mine puts out about 325 or so watts on 160, 75 and 40 with good modulation and I have never had a problem.  It is not a broadcast transmitter but it will do the job within the expected parameters.

The one KD8PIQ has may be a different story.  The power supply section is different than the original in that the HV transformer supplies both the RF deck and the modulator deck as I recall, unless it has been modified.  The original design was for a SS VFO and Chuck could not get it to work because of low output so he found and incorporated a 755 in this one.

As already posted, Larry Rau spend a lot of time attempting to make one like it work and wasn't successful but there are a lot of the original out there that work fine.

[VE3AJM]

Hi Jim

I'm glad that yours hasn't had any problems. My GK500A had signs of being overheated/abused by a previous owner, and it would blow fuses especially on unkeying the tx. My friend Ken VE3MAW used a bunch of solid state relays in his, amomgst other mods, and its working well for him now.

I'm very curious to see what they did with the VRL 500 in the RF deck too.

Al VE3AJM

[KD8PIQ]

I preformed HV testing today.

The plate voltage for the 811a's read 2kw, along with the plate for the 4-400.

That is kinda high for a 811a, so I have e-mailed The Perter Dahl Co. for information regarding what the voltage taps should read on the custom build transformers.

I have replaced the 6l6 with a very nice NOS Sylvania.  The plate voltage for the 6l6 tested 325, and the data sheet reads 450 max, so that should be fine.  The old tube had a bad grid leak..

I still have not put the 811a's in the deck, I'm not sure about 2kw on the plates...

Any input on this one?

-Scott

[Jim, W5JO]

I preformed HV testing today.

The plate voltage for the 811a's read 2kw, along with the plate for the 4-400.

That is kinda high for a 811a, so I have e-mailed The Perter Dahl Co. for information regarding what the voltage taps should read on the custom build transformers.



I still have not put the 811a's in the deck, I'm not sure about 2kw on the plates...

Any input on this one?

-Scott

Scott, does this unit use the same HV for the final and the 811As?  If so  you may have troubles with it.  The modulator deck should have a power supply for the 811As separate from the HV for the final.