Gates DC250GY

[W5SUM]

Gentleman I have just become the proud father of a working Gates 250 Watt AM BROADCAST Rig. Has anyone ever modified one of these little jewles for operation on 160 or 75 meters?  Used pair of 810's in the final and a pair of 810's in the modulation section.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Ronnie - W5SUM

[WA4JK]

Ronnie get ahold of Mason, he took one I got and did a good job with it.

[WA3VJB]

Hey Ronnie, congratulations!  

It's probably a typo -- you got a BC-250GY, right ?  

Talk with Andy, WA4KCY.

He's got a purty one on 3885 with us.




And a great story behind it as well:

http://207.45.187.74/~wa4kcy/page8.htm

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Pretty sure that Joe/W3GMS has one of these on the air. He's a regular here on the board and is more than happy to answer questions and give helpful hints.

[flintstone mop]

congrats..any cigars???
It should be a beautiful sounding transmitter. Don't get concerned about only 250 watts. A good antenna and that is usually all that is needed.
That's all I run here with my AL 1500 and Flex radio

Some pictures pleeeze

[John K5PRO]

There was one of those up at the South Dakota auction of Dewey's (W0ZUS) estate last summer. I'm not sure if Ron Skipper bought it or what. I couldn't haul it away, it was built in behind the HB 450TL 160m kW. It had been converted to HF with a T368 VFO or something, see it in the lower part of photo attached.
Good luck to you! I have a comparable monster, RCA BTA250L, that found its way into my garage a couple years ago. I have even gotten around to putting the parts back in and firing it up, but its a heavyweight 250 watt rig with 810s.

[KE6DF]

How does a BC-250GY sound compared to other 250 broadcast rigs?

A pair of 6L6's, transformer coupled to a pair of 810's.

In the BC-250GY it appears that neg feedback is just around the 6L6's.

I wonder how well that worked as compared to a design like the BTA-250 where 828 modulators are used with no driver transformer and feedback went more globally around the modulator tubes and the 6J7 voltage amp tubes.

[Jeff W9GY]

Rick, WA8UAS, has one...

[John K5PRO]

I don't know how the Gates sounds, never heard one. A friend in Albuquerque has one unrestored. The RCA is said to be somewhat hi fi compared to others.

[W7TFO]

In the Gates vs RCA camp modulation fidelity, I'd say the RCA played just bit better.  Better iron IMHO.

The Gates was cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, and cheaper to fix.  Table radios never knew difference.

A Gates with late-production Dahl iron did better than with the original Electro-Engineering or Basler Electric.

73DG

[WA3VJB]

How does a BC-250GY sound compared to other 250 broadcast rigs...

Andy's sounds very good all on its own, probably on a par with the Collins 300-G and RCA BTA-250.  Joe, W3GMS has an older BC-250C that might sound even better.

The vintage of the transmitters affects any comparison, with newer series going cheaper.

OLDER Gates, Collins and RCA transmitters had better iron in them, partly because more was expected in terms of the quality of an AM signal. 

As you got into the 1960s and 1970s, manufacturers played to a price point with transmitters that allowed quick repairs and adequate audio quality.

An old Gates (like the early 1950s BC1-F) could beat the audio quality of a 1960s RCA of the same power level, like a BTA-1R or a 1S (1971).  And an old RCA, (like a BTA1M or MX), could beat a Gates BC1-G (1968+) and probably a Collins 20V3 (also late 60s).

Then again, they all need to be set up right, with good audio and processing all along the chain. So in practice, it's gonna be all over the place. If I remember right, Dave, W4QCU has mentioned using a D-104 into his Gates ...

[K5UJ]

John K9KEU runs a Gates 250, I think on 160.

There's a Collins 300G available in El Dorado  Ark.  Bob W0YVA put it out on the boatanchor reflector.  I imagine it is okay to get the word out here:

--------------------------
Bob,

I have a Collins AM Transmitter type 300C serial 126 I believe is 250W output that I need to sell. We are a growing business and I need to get it out of our studio to make room for new equipment. I am not sure of the value and who ever purchases it would have to make arrangements to pick it up on site. Do you know of anyone who might be interested in this item?

Terry Canterbury
Noalmark Broadcasting Corporation
202 West 19th Street
El Dorado, AR  71730
870-918-0393 (cell)
--------------------------

Contact Terry and tell him Bob referred you.

73, Bob
WØYVA

However, the seller made an error. The transmitter is a 300G, not a 300C.

73, Bob

[KB5MD]

The Collins 300G in El Dorado, AR has been sold and is no longer available!

[KA3EKH]

El Dorado AR, that mythical place where the Collins broadcast transmitter are just lying around free for anyone to pick up. They pave the streets there with RCA and GE transmitters and little streams of factory fresh 807 and 833 tubes trickle down the rocks, there are no covenants or restrictions and every Ham is free to put up huge long antennas and plasma televisions are unknown. Too bad though, looks like they sold the transmitter so now the dream is thru.

[flintstone mop]

In the Gates vs RCA camp modulation fidelity, I'd say the RCA played just bit better.  Better iron IMHO.

The Gates was cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, and cheaper to fix.  Table radios never knew difference.

A Gates with late-production Dahl iron did better than with the original Electro-Engineering or Basler Electric.

73DG

Can you imagine how a station manager would feel if they go through all of the corporate hoops to buy a transmitter that is reported to have that glorious on-air sound and end up disappointed??
Many on-air reports for WABC was that the glorious sound was lost when they replaced the GE 50's with a Harris MW-50. Timtron always says that whatever you put into an MW-50 will come out. 15-15K Hz easily
What audio qualities does an engineer listen for? Or is the interest only in Pos Peaks

The beautiful audio I experienced for a short time was the Raytheon RA 250. A quad of 2A3's driving the 810 modulators and huge iron.
Fred

[WA3VJB]

El Dorado AR, that mythical place where the Collins broadcast transmitter are just lying around free for anyone to pick up. They pave the streets there with RCA and GE transmitters and little streams of factory fresh 807 and 833 tubes trickle down the rocks, there are no covenants or restrictions and every Ham is free to put up huge long antennas and plasma televisions are unknown. Too bad though, looks like they sold the transmitter so now the dream is thru.

Well I hope there's no trickling of tubes down the rocks.  Kinda hard on the glass.
Cross posting this  --

The 300G was bought by yours truly, KB5MD and it will remain within 8 miles of its present location.  Someone had P.M.ed me asking, so I will set the record straight.

[W4AAB]

Glad one of our guys got the 250 in El Dorado, AR. Looking forward to hearing it on the air.Now that it is nice WX, I can't stay in the house and work on my BC1-T :-(. Hopefully this fall!!
                                         Joe W4AAB

[Scott Bailey SWL]

Hi Ronnie, Looks like you have one of my old favorite tube transmitters, the Gates BC-250GY. I am a small town commerical operator, and when my family bought the station, getting on 20 years ago, we had a Gates BC-250GY.

Of course these days, I know very few commercial stations that use tube boxes because commercial AM Radio does make much money anymore. Since I am disabled, I do have no payroll at my station, and we bring in less than $40,000.00 a year, just enough to pay the bills, I guess. Solid State uses less AC Current for us.

We'll let me get to what I was going to say, I seem to forgot how we did it, but my station has a Pre-Sunrise and Post Sunset power of about 5 watts. We mounted inside the Gates 4 big resistors in it, of course I had the help of a good engineer back then. Seems (*I think*) we did something to reduce the Plate Voltage going to the 810 tubes. It's been so long that I forgot how we did it, but we were able to get the power down to about 19 watts output without effecting the audio in the bias and modultaion section of the transmitter!

At times I wished that I never had let that Gates 250 go because we have no back up transmitter, but I have been lucky that my BE AM-1A has been running for 4 years now with no problems.

The thing I like about the Gates BC-250GY is that I could stand inside of it, make adjustments, and to be flat honest with you, playing music on the air with the Gates sounds better than the commercial, low powered, AM Solid State Transmitters we use now, but these days, with higher electric bills, that nice sound comes with a price tag. I had mine up until about 2001.

I got a wild hair a while back to find me one, but my wife gave me a dirty look and said , No way, You will get hurt playing with that big thing! But she is right, I can't lift heavy transformers anymore, and take care of a tube transmitter like I once did! I always was keeping them clean. I also had a Collins 20V-3 for daytime use, and I was the same way with that box. Kept up looking and sounding nice and clean!

Somebody told me I should have gotten my ham license years ago, but I still run this little community radio station, that is licensed for 1 KW daytime, but because of the economy, weekdays, sometimes, I just run the transmitter at 250 watts and covers the town very well, and keep the Electric Bill down. On Sunday, I have to run 1,000 watts because we are Gospel all day long, being we are in the Bible Belt, and those Preachers (including my Pastor) I have on the station want to get out as far as I can make it get out!

Gee, I recall almost 15 years ago when we had the Gates BC-250GY, and my Collins 20V-3 was down, I cranked up the Gates to 250 watts on a Sunday Morning, ready for preaching, and back then, the preachers didn't complain about me using the Gates BC-250GY. All I had back then was some Genter Prism, AM Audio Processor I bought new from Harris, and it fed the audio to the Gates from the console. It was (and still is) a simple, small, AM Daytimer setup. It all sounded great with that Gates 250 on the air. I miss looking at those 810's glow!

You would have love to been around my little AM Daytimer back in the 90's! Almost all tube!

Have fun!

Scott

[Opcom]

In the Gates vs RCA camp modulation fidelity, I'd say the RCA played just bit better.  Better iron IMHO.

The Gates was cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, and cheaper to fix.  Table radios never knew difference.

A Gates with late-production Dahl iron did better than with the original Electro-Engineering or Basler Electric.

73DG

Can you imagine how a station manager would feel if they go through all of the corporate hoops to buy a transmitter that is reported to have that glorious on-air sound and end up disappointed??
Many on-air reports for WABC was that the glorious sound was lost when they replaced the GE 50's with a Harris MW-50. Timtron always says that whatever you put into an MW-50 will come out. 15-15K Hz easily
What audio qualities does an engineer listen for? Or is the interest only in Pos Peaks

The beautiful audio I experienced for a short time was the Raytheon RA 250. A quad of 2A3's driving the 810 modulators and huge iron.
Fred

When the local oldies station went from a push-pull modulated transmitter to a PDM/PWM based one, there was a huge difference in the sound.

[Scott Bailey SWL]

What was the difference in your opinion? My station was Oldies (60's-early 70's) back when we bought our solid state transmitter, the Harris (Gates One) We went to quincy in 1997, and picked it up straight from the factory.

I could tell a major difference between my old Gates BC-250GY and the Harris. Back then the Gates was for pre sunrise/post-sunset. I never go the chance to listen to the difference between my main trasnmitter, the Collins 20V-3, and the Harris.

There is a station not too far from me, that I was told they were still using a Gates BC-250GY. They are only licensed for 250 watts daytime. They sound very good on the air, the audio sounds very good with the simple processing they are using.

I cut my teeth working on the Gates-250GY. It came with the station when we bought it almost 20 years ago. The only thing I noticed was there was more loundness, but heck, some small town AM Operators that are near a good size market, crank up the audio to the point of distortion, making them sound awful, just to compete, and they need to turn down the processor, and focus an their community, in my opinion.

[flintstone mop]

What was the difference in your opinion? My station was Oldies (60's-early 70's) back when we bought our solid state transmitter, the Harris (Gates One) We went to quincy in 1997, and picked it up straight from the factory.

I could tell a major difference between my old Gates BC-250GY and the Harris. Back then the Gates was for pre sunrise/post-sunset. I never go the chance to listen to the difference between my main trasnmitter, the Collins 20V-3, and the Harris.

There is a station not too far from me, that I was told they were still using a Gates BC-250GY. They are only licensed for 250 watts daytime. They sound very good on the air, the audio sounds very good with the simple processing they are using.

I cut my teeth working on the Gates-250GY. It came with the station when we bought it almost 20 years ago. The only thing I noticed was there was more loundness, but heck, some small town AM Operators that are near a good size market, crank up the audio to the point of distortion, making them sound awful, just to compete, and they need to turn down the processor, and focus an their community, in my opinion.

Scott and OPCOM, I'm not trying to be on the offensive to your posts....BUT was WAS the difference in audio??? Describe a little more than " huge difference in sound" or the BC 250GY and the Harris (Gates One).
Was it a very muddy bass sound? The high-end was scratchy or non-existent?
No low-end? There was a period of time in the 80's that b'casters were limiting the low end to 100hz to save wasting modulator energy and making a louder signal on the air.
I had a Collins 20V-2 and a McMartin BA1K and the Collins would win with lovely audio and very nice low end. The McMartin and the tiny mod iron was terrible bass response. 80hz was the lowest freq. High end was 7kc same as the 20-V. The 20V was good to 40Hz. easily. I did not like 4-400's.
I think a lot of problems can be with very crappy receivers used by engineers to determine the audio they are trying to present on the air, no off-air monitors in the TX building, or tone deaf and can't figure out what music is supposed to sound like, or  General Managers that want all the meters in the RED coz that's what they paid for.
With Talk radio being the big thing, there are many still broadcasting music. And they sound very nice. Seems to be some uniformity in audio quality lately. The satellite fed Disney stations ROCK!!
During the middle 90's me and poor Steve K4HX, drove up to Mass. and back to Md to pick up on a nice HB rig. A 4CX1500A modulated by a pair of 3CX1200A and HUGE iron. It NEVER sounded like it did at Chuck's QTH. Coz I did not power it up and loaded it as he did. It was a wasted effort and money.
Sorry for blabbering too much

fred