Irksome things that I've bought that spew RFI

[W1AEX]

On the topic of RFI spewing appliances, I have said for a long time that we are at the mercy of whatever electronic garbage our neighbors decide to purchase off the shelves of WalMart. Being a fairly careful shopper, I try to avoid known garbage broadcasters like switching wall supplies and cheap computer hardware, but now and then, stuff finds its way into my house. The top 3 noise makers in my house are these guys:

1. Philips DVP5960 DVD Player: This produces an incessant mosquito-like whine on 160/75 meters when it's off. I was able to eliminate the problem with an AC line filter using series chokes inside a metal AC-outlet extension box.

2. Klipsch V.2-400 5.1 sound system: My son has reached the age where he gives me cool stuff that he has finished playing with. He handed me this beautiful sound system for my gaming computer and it sounds great. Unfortunately, the 5A switching power supply in the subwoofer fills the 160/75 meter bands with enormous wandering buzzies spaced roughly 60 cycles apart. I could see them fill the panadapter on the Flex as I plugged the speakers in. Like many electronic things sold today, the power supply runs continuously whether the unit is turned on or off. A brute force AC line filter has no effect on this one. It's going back in the box.

3. Brinks 46-1022 in-wall light timer: The old mechanical one that I installed back in the 80's finally failed. I found this nice digital replacement for 20 bucks at the hardware store and installed it yesterday. It went in fine and programmed easily. Holding a BC band radio up to it revealed no RF noise. Then I used it to turn on the light it controlled. Every radio in the house blared with a square wave buzz that was like a light dimmer on steroids. It cleaned out the BC band and continued right up through 40 meters. Even my receive loops out at the edge of my property were picking it up. It's going back to the store on Monday, and hopefully, no one within a mile of me will buy one.

Honorable mentions: 

1. The 12 year-old Samsung microwave in the kitchen. It wipes out everything when it's running, but it's never on for more than a few minutes a day. I co-exist with it.

2. The new Staples 8-Sheet Shredder that resides at the desk where we do our bill paying chores. It wipes out everything when it's running, but it doesn't run very often. I co-exist with this one as well.

I was chatting with Rich - K1ETP on 160 meters last Thursday night and we compared a few notes on this topic. I remember him saying about a year ago, that based upon his experiences with RFI encounters while running HF mobile, that our hobby is doomed. I think he's right. Unless someone with authority starts to care about preserving the HF spectrum, it's going to get worse as time goes by. I still count my blessings that I don't live in the area of my town that is blanked out by a noise that no utility seems to be able to resolve. The problem shown in the video I posted here a year ago still remains, in spite of investigations by the power company, the cable company,the local BC station engineer, the ARRL RFI group, and a complaint to the FCC that brought a response that people should just improve their radio antennas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKs8I-bPyRM

So... what have you found in your house that disturbs your listening pleasure???

Rob W1AEX

[W1RKW]

The XYLs treadmill is a big offender here. Haven't attempted to deal with it, just accept it since it's rare that I'm listening to the radios at the same time she's using it.

The SMPS for the DSL modem was until it was placed in a grounded metal box. 

DVD player, only when in use.  Likewise on the paper shredder.

Now, if my neighbor would hurry up and sell his house and take his plasma TV, things will be very tolerable.

[K5UJ]

I have been predicting for some time that eventually HF ham radio will become a hobby for the rich or at least, only those who can afford to live within about 50 acres or more of property.   

At my place since I live alone, I can control everything and when I'm running the station, I can simply not use any noise generator.  So, my problem has to do with those whom I cannot control.  So far, I have managed to get by with my MFJ box that shifts noise on one rx antenna 90 degrees from the transmit/rx antenna line and nulls it out.   It isn't perfect but most of the time it makes it possible to operate where I would not be able to otherwise.   But my noise level is usually around S8 on average so I am glad I am not a DXer; I can ragchew with that for now. 

Yes we are doomed.   The ARRL which is the only organization that could possibly do anything on behalf of hams seems to have chosen to ignore this issue completely.  They are focused on BPL, and issues having to do with 70 cm.   

That wall light timer sounds especially bad.  I've heard some real killers are plasma TVs, new washer/dryer combos, and something else that just slipped my mind.  The timer sounds like it is as bad as all of those.  It must turn the whole house wiring into an antenna.

I hope those Klipsch speakers pick up and rectify 75 and 160 m. AM. 

Rob

[k4kyv]

Touch lamps and touch light switches. Some, but maybe not all, CFLs.

My laptop puts white noise hash on the FM broadcast radio in the same room.  Cable modem puts carriers all over 10m (the newer one in a cheap plastic case is not nearly as bad as the one it replaced even though the first one had a metal case, better quality circuit board and was much more solidly built).

This problem has existed for decades. The horizontal oscillator in old tube-type B&W TVs. Small appliance motors, like the ones in electric mixers, drills, saws, etc. Electric fences. But this problem has recently become much worse, particularly as most manufacturing moved "offshore", increasing exponentially for the past few years.

The FCC has completely sold out to the consumer electronics junk industry...  but lest we forget, ALL federal regulation is inherently bad and must be repealed ASAP. 

[WQ9E]

The worst offender I have found was a small heater using a PTC (positive temperature coefficient) ceramic element.  When on and in the low power position it wipes out everything from the longwave through 6 meters and you could hear a change in the note of the transformer buzz from my Viking 500 power supply.  It is no longer with us.

My wife's treadmill was tamed with some RF chokes and a brute force line filter.  The DTV box also got a choke on the AC cord. 

The only noise I have never been able to identify/eliminate is a buzzing noise that only shows up in very high wind.  I first thought it was line noise but it seems to be from static electricity building up from the wind and then discharging, it shows up in the form of fairly short pulses (.5 to 2 seconds depending upon wind intensity) and peaks at 3700 Khz. falling off fairly rapidly above this frequency.  A homemade outdoor loop with a preamp at the loop takes this noise out almost entirely; normally 75 meter noise is very low unless there is lightning static.  I generally use a full wave 80 meter loop and I find that my Hy Gain Hy Tower is a little less susceptible to this intermittent noise source.

At some point in the future an enterprising ham will probably create a "server farm" of remote controlled receivers at a quiet location and lease them out to city hams.  It will be the ham version of cable television.  Then limits on RF exposure will force transmitters to a remote site also.  Then we will be one step away from all using those DX simulator type programs that became popular in the 80s instead of having real radio.   Stay tuned for Harvey Ham meets The Matrix. 

[W2PFY]

So far at my camp station this is the problem. I do not have a good relationship with the neighbor who so elegantly makes these splices in his electric fencing. Right now he's running a pulse wire charger but before this he had a weed burner on there running raw 60 cycle garbage.

The R-390A can filter out the pulse with some degradation of the audio frequency response. I can live with that.

  

[w1vtp]

Rob

I had the same DVD player with the same problem.  While not in use, I unplugged it. But then, it started skipping tracks so I trashed it.

Al

[flintstone mop]

I had under-counter lights using electronic ballast, a one tube device that would buzz the bands up to 20M.
I went to Lowe's with my test radio looking for the quietest LED type under-counter lights and I found one that finally passed muster............expensive.........but totally quiet.
Most of CFL's I have to hold the test radio antenna right by them to get anything on the bands I'm concerned with.
Many bad luck stories with switching PS's and a $25 computer network switch that trashed only the 20M band!!!
Fred

[K9PNP]

Items 1 and 1a, in whichever order you want:  cable modems and routers.  Buzzes and whistles across 10M, 6M, 2M, and VHF High-band public safety.  Seems they all have an output on our county-wide paging freq.  Oh, and don't forget cash registers, even those not on networks:  same basic issue with a little less power.  10 was open when I was mobile last week, but about every half mile or less there was the above QRM.

I love the 'reoreint your receiving antenna' standard comment.  My lot is only so big.  And, like I brought up in a public safety RFI meeting a couple years ago:  "So, I'm working a big mess out on the highway and you want me to change my antenna location so I can get away from all the interference??  I'll be happy to tell my patients I'll be back after while as soon as I find a place I can talk to central dispatch to get some more help out here."  Of course, the 'officials' were not at all impressed, since it was not them or their families involved.

Makes ya wonder...

[N0WVA]

The worst offenders in the house are switching cell phone chargers and a wireless headphone transmitter. If any of these devices are plugged in I get trash from DC to daylight over the entire house. Not quite so bad are two touch lamps. Its becoming a pain to go around unplugging everything just so I can work HF.

[W1VD]

On more than one ocassion I've opened EMI/RFI generating wall warts to find circuit boards locations that are clearly silk screened for filter components ... but no filter components are installed! No surprise that adding suitable components greatly improves the situation. What's up with this? Most warts have various agency approval markings ... as if that means anything anymore. Is there no further agency inspection once approval is granted and manufacturers are on the honor system? After approval Chinaman saves $ by eliminating all non essential parts?

Ahhh, still works vely vely good ... you like!

[Jeff W9GY]

XYL's Sunbeam electric heating pad el-cheapo from Wal-mart.  Thermostat constantly opening and closing the heating circuit.  Loud "ticks" on 160/75. Similar to aquarium heaters of the past.  I'm going to try a capacitor across the contacts.

[K5UJ]

On more than one ocassion I've opened EMI/RFI generating wall warts to find circuit boards locations that are clearly silk screened for filter components ... but no filter components are installed! No surprise that adding suitable components greatly improves the situation. What's up with this?

what's up with it is that manufacturers make prototypes with all the filtering to get past any inspections needed to get regulatory approval, then go into full production without those components because after the initial inspection, no one is looking anymore.  All of these problems would be solved if the Feds would simply randomly test imports and refuse entry to anything that fails the RFI test.  But 1.  Congress does not appropriate the money needed for that and 2.  guess what industry has millions of dollars to spend on lobbying and campaign contributions (i.e. bribes) if necessary to insure there never are these  needed appropriations.   All you have to do is think about the money to see what this is really about.

[WA3VJB]

We bought one of the first 1080 plasma TV, a Panasonic Viera, before it became well-known that plasma TVs generate a lot of hash.

Great picture, far better than the same 42in. 1080 in an LCD,  and fortunately, my radio time does not coincide that often with TV time for the two of us here.

[W2VW]

We bought one of the first 1080 plasma TV, a Panasonic Viera, before it became well-known that plasma TVs generate a lot of hash.

Great picture, far better than the same 42in. 1080 in an LCD,  and fortunately, my radio time does not coincide that often with TV time for the two of us here.

Do you have any over the air TV happening there Paul?

[WA3VJB]

Do you have any over the air TV happening there Paul?

When we first got the fiber, the installer gave me a spool-end of high quality RG-6 that I used for a new run from chimney to rec room where the Panasonic now sits.  (the fiber terminates in an optical converter box that distributes to CAT-x ethernet wire for the wi-fi router, and to coax for the television, hence the stock of RG-6 on their truck. We kept the 4-wire copper telephone service that they have to power, instead of us.

On the chimney I put a new UHF grid-bowtie antenna, on the rotator, and got good reception of the DC stations but not Baltimore, where I think two stations remained in the VHF segment after converting to digital from analog.

So, I pointed the bowtie at DC and unplugged the rotator. It's a back up plan for reception in case the fiber goes out.  Hasn't gone out in the few years we've had it.

Curiously, when I was assessing the noise from the plasma, when the TV was connected to the chimney antenna it significantly boosted noise on 80M. I presume the bowtie antenna became a radiator for all that trash, especially since the 80M dipole went right over the house at the time.

"Re-orient the antenna" indeed.

[KM1H]

Ive found that wrapping AC line or wall wart linear DC cords in FT240-43 toroids as close to the equipment as possible does a good job of killing noise.

For switchers I either replace with linear or wrap in tin foil.

Ive built AC line filters into metal outlet strips along with MOV's for the various computers and ham gear. Constructed the inductors for a 100KHz cutoff which puts anything above 475KHz well down on the skirts allowing a clean 500KHz band and up. Unfortunately I have a few neighbors to contend with but their birdies havent fallen on any good frequencies...yet.

Ive managed to kill all in house QRM to below the noise on any band. The one that I couldnt cure were light dimmers so I removed them.

Ferrite isnt cheap but it sure beats the alternative.

Carl

[k4kyv]

On more than one ocassion I've opened EMI/RFI generating wall warts to find circuit boards locations that are clearly silk screened for filter components ... but no filter components are installed! No surprise that adding suitable components greatly improves the situation. What's up with this?

what's up with it is that manufacturers make prototypes with all the filtering to get past any inspections needed to get regulatory approval, then go into full production without those components because after the initial inspection, no one is looking anymore.  All of these problems would be solved if the Feds would simply randomly test imports and refuse entry to anything that fails the RFI test.  But 1.  Congress does not appropriate the money needed for that and 2.  guess what industry has millions of dollars to spend on lobbying and campaign contributions (i.e. bribes) if necessary to insure there never are these  needed appropriations.   All you have to do is think about the money to see what this is really about.

Now, that's something ARRL should jump on with both feet to the FCC, the courts and congress, since this is a case of downright overt fraud.

Remember, they had success through the courts regarding fraud on the FCC's part in the BPL debacle.

The people at the lab could randomly purchase these devices, and document the noise levels they generate, along with the omitted components. The broadcast industry, particularly the AM broadcast industry, should jump on board as well, perhaps through the NAB.

This would make a lot more sense than spending money to lobby the FCC to mandate broadcast radio chips in cell phones, a feature that fails to interest the public.

[KE6DF]

I have some lamps and light fixtures with CFLs in my shack.

Some on each of two different circuits.

One set of lights generates RFI up to 20M. The other is quiet.

I haven't gone to the point of checking individual CFL bulbs so I don't know if it's one particular bulb or one band of bulbs.

I've laid in a stock of halogen bulbs. But I need to buy more while I still can.

[W1AEX]

The people at the lab could randomly purchase these devices, and document the noise levels they generate, along with the omitted components. The broadcast industry, particularly the AM broadcast industry, should jump on board as well, perhaps through the NAB.

Your idea has merit Don. When the local BC station engineer (who is also a ham), and W1MG (Mike Gruber) from the ARRL technical group came out to look at the puzzling interference to the BCB about a mile from here, they discussed the growing interest on the part of the NAB in the escalating RFI problem.

The NAB is as frustrated as we are with the whole mess, and they have a lot more money invested than we do. The local station engineer mentioned to me that in difficult cases where the noise is horrendous, they simply hand out inexpensive HD radios to the loyal listeners who are affected, so they can listen to the AM programming on the FM simultaneous HD feed. Obviously, this is not a solution, but it keeps a few listeners happy.

The NAB probably has enough muscle to get attention, but I doubt they can stem the tide as more and more crappy appliances flow into the country. I believe the scenario that Jay and Rob described above is pretty common. The NAB is looking for a way to collaborate with the FCC to improve enforcement of existing regulations. Unfortunately, at this point there are devices emitting VLF-MW-HF interference which are not even covered under the incidental radiator provisions of Part 15. Every complaint now is handled on a case-by-case basis, which is simply stupid and unworkable with the onslaught of problems that keep emerging.

If the League really wanted to move on this, they'd open the floodgates and create an RFI forum on the their web page. Hams could post issues they have with certain appliances and the League lab could investigate as much as they wished, and turn their findings over to the FCC. I do see enforcement letters listed at the FCC site that are related to consumer appliance interference to licensed services, but can only imagine that little is done once the letter goes out.

It's a frustrating problem for all of us, and the average schmuck out there who has no interest in our hobby could care less.

[AJ1G]

Worst EMI source we have is our front loader washing machine which apparently uses a PWM variable speed/reversible direction motor drive - generates all sorts of trash that moves around with the speed of the machine.  Totally trashes HF when running, even on radios not connected to the AC line and fed by antennas outside the house.  Don't these things have to meet FCC EMI emission/power quality specs anymore?

[k4kyv]

It's a frustrating problem for all of us, and the average schmuck out there who has no interest in our hobby could care less.

Exacerbated by the demise of AM broadcast radio and over-the-air analogue TV. In olden days when noise and hash blotted out Joe Six Pack's ball game, he raised holy hell. Now, at least in these parts, about all you hear on AMBC radio is a few windbags preaching hate speech, political propaganda and sports talk, to their choirs stalled in traffic. The music is on FM and iPod and the ball game comes in on the big screen TV in HD via cable or satellite. Very few people listen to AM radio in their homes any more. Granted, there are a few AM stations still scattered about the country that broadcast something worth listening to, including a few that play some decent music, but those are voices in the wilderness.

I verified that a couple of years ago while I was trying to track down some power line noise carrying a portable radio. On a Saturday morning after I had narrowed down the search to a small area, I knocked on a few doors, and found about a half dozen people home.  I demonstrated the noise on the radio, which was so bad that it wiped out the local AM station 8 miles away. NONE of the people who answered the door indicated that they were aware of all that electromagnetic ruckus right over their heads, nor did they seem the least bit alarmed at the news.

[W2VW]

Do you have any over the air TV happening there Paul?

When we first got the fiber, the installer gave me a spool-end of high quality RG-6 that I used for a new run from chimney to rec room where the Panasonic now sits.  (the fiber terminates in an optical converter box that distributes to CAT-x ethernet wire for the wi-fi router, and to coax for the television, hence the stock of RG-6 on their truck. We kept the 4-wire copper telephone service that they have to power, instead of us.

On the chimney I put a new UHF grid-bowtie antenna, on the rotator, and got good reception of the DC stations but not Baltimore, where I think two stations remained in the VHF segment after converting to digital from analog.

So, I pointed the bowtie at DC and unplugged the rotator. It's a back up plan for reception in case the fiber goes out.  Hasn't gone out in the few years we've had it.

Curiously, when I was assessing the noise from the plasma, when the TV was connected to the chimney antenna it significantly boosted noise on 80M. I presume the bowtie antenna became a radiator for all that trash, especially since the 80M dipole went right over the house at the time.

"Re-orient the antenna" indeed.

Tnx fer the outline. The antenna coax shield may have been radiating the RFI. Ferrite time.

The OTA may have better quality than the other sources as it ahould be 19.34 mega bits/sec. Sometimes certain TV outlets compress.

[K3ZS]

Years ago I put my antenna far from the house to get rid of some of the RFI.  At the end of last month an S9 buzz showed up on 80M and 160M.   I traced it to the power line about 1/4 mile away.   It wiped out some local AM stations in the car radio when driving near it.   After a long hold on the phone, I got the power company to send an "Interference Report".   In it they had a list of RFI generators, including amateur radio transmitters, that could be the cause of the RFI.   On the form they wanted collaboration from neighbors that they had interference also.  The only thing I could state was none of my neighbors are hams and could not collaborate the RFI.   The power company just put up higher poles and have 3 phase running on top with some very large insulators.  Right now, I give up using 80M and 160M until, hopefully, they can eliminate the RFI.

[WV Hoopie]

This forum is a good place to start a movement, but to make a change, licensed radio operators "need" to file complaints with the FCC.

I could title this post as, "Still holding my Breath".

After several months of RFI and harmonics interference on 80 & 40 meters, it was time to locate the source. In early May 2010 I visited the home where the source was located. On two occations the owner more or less told me to pound sand. I even requested for him to visit my shack and listen, no dice.

So on June 4th, 2010 I filed a complaint with the FCC. After waiting for months, Feb.4, 2011, I received a call from the FCC warning about threats to my well being. These threats were stated to the FCC in phone calls between Laura Smith and the owner of the RFI source.

In talks with Ms. Smith, Part 15 was discussed. In the eyes of the FCC; our congress, manufactors and their lobbyist, created Part 15 and the FCC only enforces Part 15.

April 26, 2011 the "Resident Agent-Electronics Engineer" from the Vancouver, WA office visited my station. He was very polite, but made it very clear, he was a busy man. At one time there were 6 agents in his office, now only he is left and has at least 4 states to cover. At the time of his visit, the RFI source was not on and his visit came to an end after about 20 minutes.

No need to purchase anything "Irksome", the neighborhood did.

The RFI continues!

WD8KDG
craig