As long as I'm setting the clocks

[KF1Z]

My OS does this w/o any add-on sw.

The only reason for time is so everything doesn't happen at once!" Albert Einstein

I wike that. W2VW gave us a link to a time server that used the UN Navy time standard but it somehow disappeared from my computer. I have been told in the past that these automatic time updates can estimate a very important function on your computer. Here's the deal, if your computer time looses over five minutes a day, your bios battery needs to be replaced. Auto updating of time eliminates this service tool.

I use "dimension4"

http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/

Some of the digital mode software is extremely sensitive to time differences.

So I have this installed, and it checks and updates the computer's clock every hour.
(You can set it to update whenever you want..)

What OS is that?

[k4kyv]

I could be wrong, but maybe the real question is: "Are you a morning or night person?"  I can tell from the posts that Bud is probably a night person (like me) and Steve/QIX, K3ZS are morning.   The night people would rather have it dark in the morning with longer light at night.  There are exceptions of course, like when some of us MUST get up early whether we like it or not.

I believe you have it backwards.  Night people would rather see daylight when we get up in the morning, with more hours of darkness in the evening. A "morning" person is someone who likes to be awake in the morning, so those are the ones who tend to get up at the crack of dawn or before, and turn in early in the evening.  Morning people or "day" people tend to go to roost with the chickens, often before it gets completely dark in the summer months.

A night person prefers to stay awake through the evening hours and retire close to midnight or in the wee hours of the morning, then sleep in until well past sunrise.  We are sometimes called "night-owls".

It has been suggested that one's tendency is at least partly genetic.
http://www.nasw.org/users/llamberg/larkowl.htm

Working 75 and 160 tends to make one a night person, or perhaps being a night person makes one tend to operate those bands during the evening. I suspect more and  more of the 75m and 160m crowd are becoming day people however, because both bands seem to increasingly roll up the sidewalks after about 9 or 10 PM, and I no longer hear the nocturnal emissions of years gone by. Sometimes even when the QRN is non-existent in winter months, 160m will be devoid of signals after about 9 PM local time.

Night people hate daylight shifting time because it is essentially a conspiracy by the day people who run the rat-race to force everyone to get up an hour earlier.  No matter what you do with the damned clock, the physical reality is that you are getting up an hour earlier every day.

Since I retired, I don't pay much attention to the DST nonsense. Last year, I think I finally changed my watch sometime in mid-May.  Some of my clocks are set to GMT, which stays the same year round.  Maybe the average Joe Bloe who spends several hours every day in front of the TV can adapt easily, since his daily dose of drivel runs according to the clock.  I find in my daily routine too many physical clues to the real time of day, which include normal daily changes in skywave propagation, patterns of daylight and darkness, stars and moon, to easily acclimate to changing the clock and pretending it is an hour later than it really is.

My natural tendency is to stay up to about 2 AM (standard time) and sleep in till 8 or 9.  I sometimes get sleepy in the early evening shortly after the meal and take a nap for 1-2 hours; then I am wired for the night and usually stay up to 3 AM or later, and sometimes don't feel sleepy even then, but usually still wake up about my normal time in the morning.

Speaking of clocks, I wish I could find an accurate analogue watch with no bells & whistles like month/date, similar to my $30 Timex but with a real 24-hour dial, that I could use for GMT.  The same goes for a 24-hour analogue electronic clock that locks on to the 60 kc/s WWV but doesn't have all that extra crap like world time zones.  I don't care much for digital clocks and watches.  I have a nice old 24-hour a.c. electric clock about 2 feet in diameter that came out of a military communications installation, but I quit using it because the power here flicks off (usually just for a few seconds) so often that it rarely keeps accurate time for more than a few days, and hardly ever does a month go by when we don't have at least a 15-20 minute outage that totally throws it off.

[WA3VJB]

I no longer hear the nocturnal emissions of years gone by. 

Well Don, I hate to inform you, you're not a teenager anymore.

[WQ9E]

I am a morning person and I much prefer DST.  It is very nice to have daylight when I get home, mowing 5 acres using the lights on the tractor is not my idea of fun.  I often go in to work well before sunrise anyway.

On the other hand my wife was not a happy camper this morning.

[Steve - K4HX]

OS X

My OS does this w/o any add-on sw.

The only reason for time is so everything doesn't happen at once!" Albert Einstein

I wike that. W2VW gave us a link to a time server that used the UN Navy time standard but it somehow disappeared from my computer. I have been told in the past that these automatic time updates can estimate a very important function on your computer. Here's the deal, if your computer time looses over five minutes a day, your bios battery needs to be replaced. Auto updating of time eliminates this service tool.

I use "dimension4"

http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/

Some of the digital mode software is extremely sensitive to time differences.

So I have this installed, and it checks and updates the computer's clock every hour.
(You can set it to update whenever you want..)

What OS is that?

[Sam KS2AM]

and Windows ....

OS X

My OS does this w/o any add-on sw.

The only reason for time is so everything doesn't happen at once!" Albert Einstein

I wike that. W2VW gave us a link to a time server that used the UN Navy time standard but it somehow disappeared from my computer. I have been told in the past that these automatic time updates can estimate a very important function on your computer. Here's the deal, if your computer time looses over five minutes a day, your bios battery needs to be replaced. Auto updating of time eliminates this service tool.

I use "dimension4"

http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/

Some of the digital mode software is extremely sensitive to time differences.

So I have this installed, and it checks and updates the computer's clock every hour.
(You can set it to update whenever you want..)

What OS is that?

[Steve - K4HX]

True. But at least in recent past versions of Windows, the time accuracy was poor, only within 1-2 seconds. This is because Windows did not properly implment NTP and the associated RFC. Unix/Linux OS do properly implment NTP and can maintain accuracy on the order of 10 mS over the Internet and something like a few hundred microseconds on a LAN.

[K1JJ]

I believe you have it backwards.  Night people would rather see daylight when we get up in the morning, with more hours of darkness in the evening.

Not me, Don.  Being a very late night person, I'd rather see sunlight in the evening when I'm getting work done outside rather than be sleeping in the morning burning daylight for nothing.  IE, I'd rather it get light at 9AM and dark at 9PM in the spring.   I like DST cuz it gives me more precious daylight when I wake up "late."

My work keeps me up until about 2AM, so I sleep until 9AM.  Yes, I think it IS genetic.

So guess the rule doesn't apply to everyone...

T

[steve_qix]

Night people hate daylight shifting time because it is essentially a conspiracy by the day people who run the rat-race to force everyone to get up an hour earlier.  No matter what you do with the damned clock, the physical reality is that you are getting up an hour earlier every day.

Don, I couldn't have said it better !!!!  I am an absolute night person - always have BEEN a night person, and would like to BE a night person all the time - but the "J" types (see Myers-Briggs) are in charge (mostly because there are many more of them!) and work starts early and everything happens on a schedule - usually an EARLY one.

The tendancy to be a night person is definitely wired in.  Been this way forever, and every invention I've ever come up with occurred in the very wee hours of the night (morning) and NEVER between 6:00am and midnight.

I don't mind the switch, but for Heaven's (or maybe our!) sake, don't switch the clock until there's enough morning light to not plunge us back into January darkness.

Oh well - I may be able to retire someday    Then it won't matter!!!!!

[KF1Z]

I have never found a way to get Windows to do this.

Either XP or Windows 7.


I know they'll do it automatically once a week.

But that is not good enough.


I could have missed the settings somewhere.... but not for a lack of trying.

[steve_qix]

I believe you have it backwards.  Night people would rather see daylight when we get up in the morning, with more hours of darkness in the evening.

Not me, Don.  Being a very late night person, I'd rather see sunlight in the evening when I'm getting work done outside rather than be sleeping in the morning burning daylight for nothing.  IE, I'd rather it get light at 9AM and dark at 9PM in the spring.

My work keeps me up until about 2AM, so will be asleep until 9AM.

Right    And I'd do the same schedule, but being married to a school administrator, and until recently, with children at home, the whole world that is run by "them" (the morning types, that is) start early.  In fact, Sherrie has to be at her school at 7:20AM, and she has an hour drive.  So, we are up at 5:30.  My younger son graduated from High School last year, and he had to be at the bus by 6:40 - early, early, early.  Most businesses start between 8:00 and 8:30 - again, early, early, early. Some start at 7.

Sherrie is also a night person - once summer starts, we are up to after midnight and sleeping until 8:30 or later.

We both have a very hard time with the earlier starts, and of course it is much worse from now until about mid-May.

[steve_qix]

Hey, we should hold a special session of the P & M net, just to rant about this subject     Don, you want to be net control, or should I ?   

[K1JJ]

How 'bout that Steve.  I never would have guessed you are a night person simply cuz you'd always talked about getting up at ~ 5AM all these years...

It must have been frickin torture for a night owl!   

Yes, DST is cruel for night people if they MUST get up super early.

T

[K5UJ]

I wish everyone were a night person except me, and all the hamfest flea markets opened at 6 a.m.  I only know one hamfest that opens at 6 a.m. but I'm there every year with a flashlight, often while guys are still unloading.

[Sam KS2AM]

I have never found a way to get Windows to do this.
Either XP or Windows 7.

I know they'll do it automatically once a week.
But that is not good enough.
I could have missed the settings somewhere.... but not for a lack of trying.

In Windows 7 or Vista you can sync to an external time source via the Date/Time GUI normally in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen.  You can also do other useful things like adding clocks for additional time zones.

The following page will tell you how to change the clock sync frequency and offers some suggestions for time sources other than the default http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/dealing-with-windows-vista-time-sync-problems/ . This advice should apply for Windows 7 and Vista.

If you do not see the "Internet Time" tab in your GUI it is because you are joined to a Windows domain (e.g. the PC you have in your office at work).  If you really think the time on your office PC is "off", talk to your IT people ... there is either an issue with your machine and/or the time source for the domain.  I would not suggest syncing the time to an external source in this case.

If you are running something earlier than Windows 7 or Vista you can sync the time from the command line / batch file.



Sam

[k4kyv]

Being a very late night person, I'd rather see sunlight in the evening when I'm getting work done outside rather than be sleeping in the morning burning daylight for nothing. IE, I'd rather it get light at 9AM and dark at 9PM in the spring.   I like DST cuz it gives me more precious daylight when I wake up "late."

My work keeps me up until about 2AM, so I sleep until 9AM.  Yes, I think it IS genetic.

But the clock has nothing to do with it.  If you are  getting up in darkness in the morning in order to see more of the sun in the evening, that means you are getting up earlier and going to bed earlier so you can get up earlier the next day - by definition, a characteristic of DAY people.  What you need is a shorter work day so you can get up after sunrise and still have daylight hours after you get home from work.

That's what used to piss me off about daylight shifting time.  Just about the time the days started to get long enough that it was daylight when the alarm went off, the damned time shift would go into effect and I was once again stumbling and fumbling in the dark to get ready for work, just as I had done in January.

And the time shift seems to be creeping earlier and earlier in the year.  It used to always happen the same weekend of the Dayton hamfest - sometime in mid to late April.  Then they changed it to the first weekend in April - appropriate, since April Fool's Time would be a good name for it.  Now it starts in early March.  It's still winter, for God's sake.

[Sam KS2AM]

Being a very late night person, I'd rather see sunlight in the evening when I'm getting work done outside rather than be sleeping in the morning burning daylight for nothing. IE, I'd rather it get light at 9AM and dark at 9PM in the spring.   I like DST cuz it gives me more precious daylight when I wake up "late."

My work keeps me up until about 2AM, so I sleep until 9AM.  Yes, I think it IS genetic.

And the time shift seems to be creeping earlier and earlier in the year.  It used to always happen the same weekend of the Dayton hamfest - sometime in mid to late April.  Then they changed it to the first weekend in April - appropriate, since April Fool's Time would be a good name for it.  Now it starts in early March.  It's still winter, for God's sake.

I'm sensing a possible segue into the annual "Why did they move the Dayton Hamvention to May?" thread.


 

[k4kyv]

Not why did they move it to May, but why did they move it from the original 3rd weekend in April to the last.  That one-week difference was the date change that caused it to be rained out every year for about 7 years in a row.

They finally moved it to mid-May because the last weekend in April sucked so badly, but it still gets rained on a lot, not to mention conflicts with high school and university graduations nation-wide.

[steve_qix]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.... I wonder if anyone, or any group, has tried to get Congress to put the time change back to April or even early May, where it should be.  Most resonable people probably support the change WHEN there is enough light in the morning, when the vast, vast majority of people get up.

I guess the first thing would be a poll.  I would ask these questions:

With respect to the Spring DST, I would most favor:

1) No time change ever at any time

2) Late Winter change to DST where it is now (in March)

3) Spring change to DST in early April

4) Spring change to DST in mid-April

5) Spring change to DST in early May


We'll deal with Fall DST at another time.
Hey, maybe we should have our own AMFONE poll 

Regards,

Steve

[K1JJ]

But the clock has nothing to do with it.  If you are  getting up in darkness in the morning in order to see more of the sun in the evening, that means you are getting up earlier and going to bed earlier so you can get up earlier the next day - by definition, a characteristic of DAY people.  What you need is a shorter work day so you can get up after sunrise and still have daylight hours after you get home from work.

I see what you're saying, but sometimes there's nothing we can do. It depends on whether or not you must synchronize yourself to the clock or not. In your case you are retired and don't need to pay attention to the clock.  In my case the markets open at specific times (some 24 hours) and I need to be in sync with that whether it's light or not.  

So, since I need to be up at 9AM for market openings, if I could, I'd choose to have the sun just rising then, but I can't. DST helps to extend this by one hour. When the markets close I now have 3 hours to play outside.  

In a way I am a slave to the clock by the rules of the world.  I can't rise at 6AM cuz the markets are closed. The next best thing is to have DST moved three hours forward and I'd be all set to maximize my daylight. It would be painful at first, but worth it if it stayed that way. I like DST and I'm a night owl.

T

[Steve - K4HX]

It's one hour. I don't see how it could make any real difference. Each day still has 24 hours and the amount of daylight is the same, no matter what the clock sez. You guys sound like a bunch of cranky old buzzards in need of a Geritol and a colonic.

[K1JJ]

It's one hour. I don't see how it could make any real difference.

That extra hour of daylight could mean 5 whole db to you -  get your new pair of phased dipoles up in the trees this week after work, caw mawn....

T

[Pete, WA2CWA]

It's one hour. I don't see how it could make any real difference. Each day still has 24 hours and the amount of daylight is the same, no matter what the clock sez. You guys sound like a bunch of cranky old buzzards in need of a Geritol and a colonic.

I agree. It's not like it just happened yesterday. It's been around for 93 years. http://www.webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/usstat.html

And, during World War II, President Franklin Roosevelt instituted year-round Daylight Saving Time, called "War Time," from February 9, 1942 to September 30, 1945. No wonder I like and enjoy DST.

[k4kyv]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.... I wonder if anyone, or any group, has tried to get Congress to put the time change back to April or even early May, where it should be.  Most resonable people probably support the change WHEN there is enough light in the morning, when the vast, vast majority of people get up.

I guess the first thing would be a poll...

It wouldn't bother me too much if it ran from Memorial Day to Labor Day or even Columbus Day, the period when the days are very long and the sun rises before 5 AM.

I doubt if you could get congress to do anything about it now, no matter what. Whoever introduced the legislation would immediately be shouted down along party lines by members of the opposite political party.

The most recent change to an earlier date was initiated by Rep. Ed Markey of MA.  He was joined by Rep. Fred Upton from Michigan, of the opposite political party. It was a footnote added to a larger energy bill. I believe it was also Markey who pushed through the change from mid to early April back in the early 80's.

The alleged purpose was to save energy.  Supposedly the most recent change was to be studied, and repealed if it was shown not to actually save energy.  I have read somewhere that in fact it hasn't saved any energy, but I think the issue is lost in the shuffle.  Too many other clumps of faeces are hitting the fan these days and grabbing their attention.

Two reasons late winter/early spring DST doesn't save energy should be pretty obvious. People have to turn on the lights when they get up in the morning to get ready for work, just as they do in the evening after they get home, during the still-short days in March.  Besides, the coldest part of the day is early in the morning just before sunrise.  As people get up pre-dawn in winter and early spring, they turn up the heat, which has to work harder to bring up the temperature.  Likewise, it doesn't save as much energy as claimed in mid summer, because people get home from work earlier, hit the thermostat, and the air conditioner has to work an extra hour to cool down the house after a long day of baking in summer heat.

According to a study from parts of Indiana, where they just recently changed over to DST, electricity usage in the summer has actually increased since the change.
http://climateprogress.org/2010/03/13/daylight-saving-time-energy-dst/

Remember, they tried it year-round in 1974, but that didn't go over so well, and after a couple of years, common sense prevailed and they went back to late April-late October.

http://www.techandbull.com/journal/2007/3/9/dst-bite-me-or-how-ed-markey-made-it-blow-lots-of-time-and-money.html

[W1RKW]

I'm up at 400AM. Go to work in the dark 365 days of the year. I work in a building with no windows and occasionally go outside of the building until about 900AM for other things but most of my time is spent in my windowless building.  I will leave for day in daylight.  I welcome the time shift because like The Slab I like doing outdoor things and the extra hour is good for that.  Unfortunately, I'm in bed in the mid summer when it's light out.