See New Thread - New England AM QRP Net - This Sunday Afternoon

[W1UJR]

Feedback on comments on the 1/23/11 net now at http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=26540.0

Gather together your PWers, Cake Pan rigs, Johnson Adventurers, Home-brew 807 rigs, Retro 75s, Elecraft K3s, Icom 703s, Yaesu 817s, etc.
If its 807 power (25 watts) or under, its welcome here.

Sunday New England AM QRP Net

Kicks Off - Jan. 16, 2011

Time - Sunday at 1PM EST (Carl KPD suggested 4:00PM EST, need your thoughts on this as 4:00PM conflicts with AWA Net)

Freq - 3880 Kc - want to keep on freq all license classes can use (Tnx to KB1HYS,WA2DTW and K1FZ for this)

Rig - QRP, defined as 807 power or less (Tnx to Carl, KC2TAU and others for suggestions here)

Mode - AM, hence the name AM QRP

Format - Roundtable, for order and to let the truly PW have a say

Vintage - New or old, home brew or commercial just fine, "run what you brung" (Tnx to KC2TAU for feedback here)

NCS - Bruce W1UJR to start, will need others for future nets, NCS should have QRO ready if needed to "guard" the freq

Purpose - To showcase AM QRP operation, to give folks a chance to run their AM QRP gear,
to discuss the weather, what's for dinner and radio in general. Think of it as the old "Lonely Guys"
and "What's For Dinner" nets with a QRP twist.

Notes - Here is the beginning structure, and all is subject to change on future nets at the request of those participating.
The goal is to make this as accessible as we can, so your input matters.
Time and Freq are the two big variables, need to settle on the time which works for the most folks, so let us know.
Fellows, this is your net, make it what YOU want it to be.
Once we get this up and running, I'll post a note under the Announcements section and get it off to Ray at ER.

* We do need volunteers for the alternating NCS position, please post interest here or email w1ujr@arrl.net *

Thanks - Bruce

[KX5JT]

Although I'm not going to be able to join due to distance and time of day... I'm curious... what if someone had to ability to reduce power to 25 or less watts on rig that is capable of producing more?  Are they welcome?

Oh and what about the average ricebox that produces no more than 25 watts carrier?

[W1UJR]

Hi John, don't think we'd exclude anyone, its the intent not so much the letter of the law that matters.
QRP, low power, is typically defined as 10 watts and under.
However Carl made a good point about a 807 rig - which do generally produce over 10 watts.
The thrill is in the use of minimal power to make a contact, we'd hope that most are aiming for that.

[KX5JT]

Sounds reasonable.

[KL7OF]

I sometimes hear eastern 75 meter stations this time of year at 1 pm EST  4PM here, just before dark...
I will try to listen..

[Carl WA1KPD]

Interesting start today but sigs ion general were not that great into South Central CT
Following were heard- Bold means Q5
W1UJR
W1VZR
KA5WHO
WA1LGQ
W1FRM

Good time. I vote to moving it to later at least to 3
Thanks Bruce for pulling it together

Attached is the "Run what you brung" Junkbox Special
6L6 Heising modded by a 6V6. 4-5 watts of pulsating power out

73

CArl
/KPD

[Steve - K4HX]

Looks like some gray line possibilities from around 2030 to 2130 Z.

I sometimes hear eastern 75 meter stations this time of year at 1 pm EST  4PM here, just before dark...
I will try to listen..

[KF1Z]

Moving to 3pm would create more interference for the very reasons given here.

Propagation is better, more people getting on the air.

Might work, won't know unless we try...


The QSO on 3885 was there for quite some time before the net started, the proper thing to do is move the net.....

If the 'other QSO' started up after the net, then asking them to move is ok.

Of course there was constant "testing" going on on 3873 at the time as well.


No matter what time of day, or what day, or what frequency a net or gathering is held, SOMEONE is going to get excluded.
Just the way it is.

Pick a time, day, frequency ( as well as one or two know alternatives) and stick with it.



( 3pm for example would exclude me, as that is the time of day to start preparing dinner, getting the chickens fed and watered etc, etc...not that I really care... there's LOTS of radio activity I can't join in because of time of day, and so on.... like operating AT ALL in the evening...just doesn't happen)

[W1UJR]

Summary - New England AM QRP Net
First, it was all good, people actually showed up and got on the air, so 10 points to the fellows for that. Great to hear Pete VZR on!

Second, most stations were reasonable copy, despite power levels and QRM from 3885.

Following stations were in the net:
W1VZR -   Pete
KA5WHO - Dale
W1VTP -   Al
W1TAV -   Steve
KF1Z -      Bruce
W1FRM -   Guy
WA1LGQ - Larry
WA1KPD -  Carl
W1UJR -   Bruce

Suggestions are good, let's hit them one at a time:

Time
I am in favor of moving it back a bit, 4PM EST may be too late, esp. due to the AWA Net. But the 2-3PM window may just work.
Question 1) Do you guys want to try 3PM next weekend and see what happens?

Freq
Some strong but unintentional QRM from the fellows on 3885, this is a going to be an issue, we want keep the freq where most of us have rocks and privileges for.
Question 2) Should we stay on 3880 or think of another freq? If so, what freq?

Format
Does the Roundtable with the NCS system seem to work? Seemed to have worked well today, having a few volunteers for alternating NCS every couple of weeks or so would help.
Question 3) Keep the Roundtable format, anchored by a NCS?

Other
What other suggestions, feedback or comments do you have?
Question 4) How can we improve the net?

Thanks!

[KF1Z]

just a quick correction on Carl's callsign...   WA1KPD



For low power operation, having an NCS will be needed.....
Otherwise, people will be jumping in on top of each other, not knowing the others are transmitting etc...... usually just leads to frustration.



As far as frequency, I really don't care!
I don't have any rigs that use crystals... all digital vfo's on all rigs..


Plan to resurrect the 10 watt class-E rig for next week....
Makes for a good reason to dig it out of "the box"   

[W1TAV]

OK.. More thoughts..

2 PM would be good..

3.875 would help avoid interference from 3.885

I thought the Round Table Format to work out fine

Net control really needs to Drag Feet. I heard a few trying to check in that did not seem to get acknowledged, or at least right away.

My 817's receiver is just not that narrow on AM, Need to check the (gasp!) manual and see what can be done if anything to tighten it up  

The Kenwood TS430 is VERY touchy to keep at low power and the receiver isn't much better then the 817's on AM

My R390-A was excellent in pulling everybody out of the noise and QRM

Split operation of the TS 430 and R390-A was awkward at best

After the fact, I thought to try the Yasue FT450 AT I picked up last month.. It is located in studio RTD (Roll Top Desk in the living room)   The receiver works great and the power level is easily reduced. I worked Al W1VTP about 1/2 an hour after the net signed.. World of difference in operating the FT 450 AT

I am now inspired (have a reason) to build a Cake Pan and set it up with the R390-A.

UNLESS...

I jump in for a Retro 75....

[WA1LGQ]

    The GRC-9 that I was using , in hi power mode of 10W with its wonderful full spectrum under modulated carbon mic audio, is frequency agile, so we could have moved a bit to avoid the qso on 3885.

 And the receiver portion of the rig is not particularly sensitive or selective. It is rigged up with a Heathkit Q multiplier which helps a good deal.

 Most of the signals had heavy qsb. Strongest signal was from KA5WHO here. In the beginng, I could not copy W1UJR, mostly due to heavy qrm,  but that improved as time went by.

I think a suggestion that someone made is a good one, that is that the NCS should have a normal powered transmitter. At least when the conditions warrant it. When the NCS is more centrally located, he may not need high power.

 Later than 1pm would help quite a bit, 2pm or 3pm, and choose a less crowded frequency outside the "window", or just on the edge like 3875. And as always use an open freq, and use a long enough callup so that everyone can find it.

 The crystal controlled guys should get more crystals, or the NCS (and everyone else)  could scan around a bit, just like in the old days.

[W2VW]

Two way QRP develops radio skills better than anything I've heard in 37 years of listening.

 I was planning to show up with something interesting but had a little problem feeding the audio. I'll probably get it fixed for next time.

Just listened. All I heard were a couple guys down 5 kcs lower lamenting they heard no activity. Of course one of them was running enough power to completely wipe out any adjacent QRP acitvity if it were to surface.
Duh.
This is Amateur radio after all.....

My observation is band conditions were worse than usual. Fall back 10 and punt. Things could easily be much better next time.

[WB2EMS]

Just listened. All I heard were a couple guys down 5 kcs lower lamenting they heard no activity. Of course one of them was running enough power to completely wipe out any adjacent QRP acitvity if it were to surface. Duh.

Not sure if you are talking about me. WA2DTW and I were trying to check into the net but neither of us could hear it well enough, and not sure if anyone was responding to us. We moved down to 3875 to talk to each other. I was running 20 watts of carrier, or 6 db up from the 5 watts they were running and I think he was running similar power, a barefoot flex 5000. I tucked in my audio to 2.4 khz to keep away from the net above as well. There were some other stations I saw down below before we moved down there that were pretty strong, but I didn't move down to copy them to see what they were talking about, so maybe you were referring to them.

Anyway, I was taking care not to interfere with the net, it was an activity I wanted to participate in and certainly wanted to facilitate, not impede. Perhaps it would have made sense to move a bit lower in frequency, but there was some SSB activity down below that. As poorly as we we were hearing them, I don't think another 6 db from us was going cause the net much QRM. We did the best we could.

I'm in central NY, finger lakes region. I could not hear Bruce at all (how much power were you running Bruce? 10 watts with the new K3?) at 1 pm, but was out in the cabin at 4 and could hear him fairly well on the K3 at that hour, so I'm thinking later in the day might help as well. Close to noon the D layer absorption should be close to max, no?

I think an NCS with more power might have been helpful as well. At least I might have been able to hear that station and get checked in.

I think conditions today were a bit sub-standard too, at least at that hour. 

Crystal control makes it hard to be flexible choosing frequencies. I wonder if a frequency down low, like where the "What's for dinner" net meets might make sense to give a try.

I'm game to keep trying. Will try to give a bit more room in the future if we move up or down to chat.

[W2VW]

No. It was not you.

[KF1Z]

Stations have to be more than 5khz away to not interfere.

 

[W2VW]

OK.. More thoughts..
My 817's receiver is just not that narrow on AM, Need to check the (gasp!) manual and see what can be done if anything to tighten it up  

The Kenwood TS430 is VERY touchy to keep at low power and the receiver isn't much better then the 817's on AM

My R390-A was excellent in pulling everybody out of the noise and QRM

Split operation of the TS 430 and R390-A was awkward at best

Maybe try hooking the 390A's antenna terminal up to the 8XX mhz 430's I.F. You can borrow a copy of it where the optional filters go. I've done that with a VHF rig or 2.

[WB2EMS]

No. It was not you.

Oh good. We were trying to not get in the way. thanks

Stations have to be more than 5khz away to not interfere.

True, when conditions are good and folks are running nice fat audio. We were screwed down a bit tighter both to punch through for QRP and to keep away from the net in progress. I think most of the stations in the net were probably running more modest audio as well.

Still, a good reminder that 5 khz doesn't always cut it.

[Steve - K4HX]

It's not that the QRP stations would cause interference as much as they would receive interference (and could ill afford it).

It's like keeping your Hobie Cat out of the wakes of the cigarette boats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQth-31y5kw

Stations have to be more than 5khz away to not interfere.

True, when conditions are good and folks are running nice fat audio. We were screwed down a bit tighter both to punch through for QRP and to keep away from the net in progress. I think most of the stations in the net were probably running more modest audio as well.

Still, a good reminder that 5 khz doesn't always cut it.

[W1UJR]

It's not that the QRP stations would cause interference as much as they would receive interference (and could ill afford it).

It's like keeping your Hobie Cat out of the wakes of the cigarette boats.

Yep, no kidding, great analogy Steve!
I know the fellows on 3885 did not intend to bother us, but when you're running hi-fi audio and mid to higher power, it is tough to dig out a regional 1/2 watt phone signal 5 KC away.

I see the value of the NCS using a mid power rig to act as a guard, aside from letting all QRP stations hear the NCS, it also lets the other folks on adjacent or the same freq know that QRP is in operation, chances are they might not even hear it otherwise.

I was using the little Icom 703 and was disappointed with its ability to narrow down the bandwidth, maybe it was just me but those guys blasted through. Then I made the foolish mistake of tuning the 703 off freq to copy the on the lower sideband to get away from the QRM, forgetting that I was on a transceiver, not separate RX and TX, and was therefore transmitting on the same lower freq - sorry fellows, forgot that until Al reminded me I had moved down the band

Finished the K3 on Sunday, we'll see how it works next Sunday.

All in all, some good lessons learned for the next net, and QRP is fun because of rather than in spite of the challenges.

[Steve - K4HX]

Good luck with it. Sounds like many are having fun and that's what it's all about. I've always enjoyed talking to John, N1MMD on his GRC-9 over the years. I could hear him surprisingly well all the way from Maine to the mid-Atlantic region. Not bad considering the manual claims only 10 miles on AM. 

[w3jn]

Bruce, FWIW I copied you on the AWA net with your 2 watts at about S5, but readable, at my Western Maryland QTH 150 mi west of Baltimore.

[WB2EMS]

Bruce, I also copied you on the AWA net at S4-5, and Q5 in Ithaca. Didn't hear you at all on the 703 earlier in the day.

[KF1Z]

Stations have to be more than 5khz away to not interfere.

True, when conditions are good and folks are running nice fat audio. We were screwed down a bit tighter both to punch through for QRP and to keep away from the net in progress. I think most of the stations in the net were probably running more modest audio as well.

Still, a good reminder that 5 khz doesn't always cut it.

Yup,

If stations are only 5k apart, that means running no more than 2 or 2.5khz audio, and then clamping the RX filters to under 2.5khz...

And THAT's only if everyone is actually on the same frequency! 

No, I didn't have any problem with yous guys down there, but the fellows up 5 were really taking everyone out.
No filters can help that one...

[W1UJR]

John and Kevin - Thanks for the report!
Very good that you could hear my little PW on, that was the maiden voyage of the Elecraft K3, was not really 100% set up yet, so glad to know it was getting out!
I made an error in the filter installation and was not sure if I was transmitting on the 2.8 or 6.0 Kc filter, think it may well have been the 2.8.
Was running the Icom SM-8 microphone modified to work with the K3, so will be very interested audio reports in the future.

The K3 final write up is at http://www.w1ujr.net/bruce's_bench_2011.htm