More FCC-approved hash producing consumer junk

[k4kyv]

From Amateur Radio Newsline™ Report 1738 – December 3 2010

A French company called Watteco has developed a new power line modem based on Watt Pulse Communication or W-P-C technology that the Wireless Institute of Australia says transmits across the 2 to 4 MHz segment of the High Frequency radio spectrum.

Described as a small, low cost, low power consumption modem, the device can be used for any type of data communication applications such as Smart Power Meters, home lighting and appliance control and street lighting to name only a few. According to the WIA News, the unit reportedly transmits a wideband signal that completely covers the amateur radio 75 and 80 meter ham bands and effectively rendering them useless anywhere in the proximity of the device.

The company claims "FCC Part 15 class A (class B pending)".  Another puzzling claim is that it doesn't inject energy into the power mains, but  "WPC technology uses the grid's resonance frequencies to communicate using electromagnetic pulses". Sounds like something right off an audiophool web page.  

http://www.watteco.com/images/stories/download/watteco_wpc-modem_product_brief_180510.pdf

[flintstone mop]

Don,
this whole thing is getting scary.
Will they have to start pumping nitrogen in the wires for higher data speeds?
Fred

[WA1GFZ]

The present system runs at 100 KHz. A burst of data is sent out at the 60Hz zero cross. I buddy has a patent on a controller about 20 years old, I built the prototype. It still won't go past a pole pig.

[K9PNP]

The present system runs at 100 KHz. A burst of data is sent out at the 60Hz zero cross. I buddy has a patent on a controller about 20 years old, I built the prototype. It still won't go past a pole pig.

Somehow the carrier current [I think that was the proper term] systems which were used to some extent for CD operations and other things during WWII got past the transformers.  Of course, they were not using data.  May have to go digging through some the the early 1940's mags to find this out; if not it will bug me until I do.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Lots of data being sent on the power lines for years. Do a search on power line networking, HomePlug, X10, CE Bus ......

[W9GT]

Yes, power companies have had carrier systems on power lines since 40's or 50's.

73,  Jack, W9GT

[k4kyv]

In the case of the smart meter or other service to the customer's house, how do they get the signal past the pole transformer?

One of the  concerns about BPL, besides rf interference, is the network they bridge across the transformer, which might admit lightning surges as well as the digital signal, and in the event of some component failure in the network, the full 11-14 kv primary voltage might appear at the mains entrance at the house.

[K5UJ]

Last weekend there was something all the way from the BC band up above 2 MHz that gave me 10 dB over S9 hash across 160 m. and made it basically impossible to work anyone.  I was unable to null it out--it seemed to be all around me.   I wonder if this is what one of those plasma TV sets does.   The only reason it dropped in strength up above 2 MHz was probably that my antenna L network attenuated it.

I refuse to let this garbage prevent me from operating one my my favorite bands.  It is an outrage that a band I am licensed to operate is destroyed by part 15 devices.  What it does mean (in my opinion) is that the new minimum power level on 160 is around 150 w.  to a halfway decent antenna.  Forget running a Ranger or AF67 unless it is an exciter for a big amp.  People in my situation won't even hear that.  The few fortunate enough to be in the sticks with S0 noise levels will be able to copy but I won't.   I'm considering a pair of ferrite loop sticks separated by about 40 feet that I can use to null one direction and phase shift and null a point source in a second direction.   

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Did you call the FCC?

[k4kyv]

Have you driven round the local area to see how widespread the noise is?  The top end of the BC band on the car radio should give a pretty good idea of condx on 160.

I find a portable short wave receiver and Rat Shack VHF AM aero receiver along with the AM car radio to be very useful in tracking down noise like that. RF hash from the car's electrical system can be a hindrance, though.

Still don't have my ant tuner together to get on 160 yet.  WX is holding me up now.  If it's not one thing it's fifteen.

[K5UJ]

Did you call the FCC?

Is this a serious question?

I've found I need a rx in the car that's on the actual operation frequency.  There are some kinds of noise that are in clumps space 20 or 30 kc apart that may land on or near 1880 but not be audible on 1710 on the car radio.  I have a sw bc rx but unfortunately it does not have a RF gain pot and coaxial UHF jack for an antenna so it is not very useable in the car.  I have an old sw bc rx that I can put in the car and run off 12 v. and put a UHF ant. jack on it and it has a RF gain pot so I can cut back the sensitivity when I am getting close to the source.  I need to put a 1 meter rod on a mag mount on the roof of the car too.   It's a  lot harder to narow down the location in town.  My neighborhood has houses spaced only 20 or 30 feet from each other.   that high density makes it harder when working with makeshift equipment.

Look, the bottom line is this:  I have a limited time to spend on finding sources, and dealing with people who mostly think ham radio is this thing people quit fooling with years ago.   And even if I have success--a cooperative resident who agrees to the replacement or modification of an appliance, the next day some other neighbor will come home from Best Buy with some other new gadget.  These things are like cockroaches--you can smack one down and tomorrow there are five more spewing noise.   What I can control (and the rest of us) is the amount of power I tx with, and the apparatus I can employ for receiving.  I have to focus on those avenues as well as finding sources which is a time consuming activity.

[k4kyv]

Don't tell them you their junk is interfering with ham radio.  Tell them you can't hear Lush Limburger on the local AM station (or Air America if you think that would would make them more likely to cooperate).  When I call the power company, the first thing I tell them is that the noise is interfering with a station I listen to on the AM band.  If they ask further questions I mention, oh yes, I do sometimes listen to shortwave too, and the noise is also interfering with those stations. I never utter the phrase "ham radio".

Maybe you could fight back with power.  Turn up the wick. When they start to complain about RFI, tell them you have to run all that power to get through the hash their consumer junk is spewing out.  Chances are, at their level of technical expertise they will buy the story.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Since it's Xmas time, many people decorate their homes outside with tons of light strings, and some with these motorized reindeer, vibrating geese, Santa Claus whatever, etc., and all plugged in together generally in one or two circuits, which can act like a huge outdoor radiating antenna, especially at lower frequencies.

[K5UJ]

tnx for the ideas etc.; sorry to piss and moan--I've considered the xmas light angle too.  There seem to be two or three different noises.  One sounds like some kind of switching supply noise--it is similar to a recording I have heard of a motorola cell phone battery charger--the other one is the extremely broad MHz wide hash.  I know they are some kind of consumer devices and not a street light or power line because there have been a couple of times I have listened in the wee hours, 3 or 4 a.m. and not heard anything, but with all my stuff on as usual around the house so I know it's not anything I have.    I suppose I could operate at 3 a.m. ha 

For now, I have two or three broken items to spend time repairing so I figure I may as well do that and get back to working on the vintage rigs I have acquired instead of battling noise with the plastic radio and leenyar hi hi.   maybe by the time I'm back on the air something will have changed.

[k4kyv]

The demise of amateur radio won't happen because greedy commercial interests collude with the FCC to grab our frequency spectrum.  It will happen because our frequency spectrum becomes hopelessly trashed by consumer junk that the greedy commercial interests are too cheap to build not to pollute, combined with the FCC's refusal to do its mandated job enforcing rules against harmful interference...  and the loss of freedom to put up antennas on our own property.

[KX5JT]

The demise of amateur radio won't happen because greedy commercial interests collude with the FCC to grab our frequency spectrum.  It will happen because our frequency spectrum becomes hopelessly trashed by consumer junk that the greedy commercial interests are too cheap to build not to pollute, combined with the FCC's refusal to do its mandated job enforcing rules against harmful interference...  and the loss of freedom to put up antennas on our own property.

Agreed BUT as long as I am on my property in the country surrounded by a few acres of my own land.... I should be fairly immune to other peoples nearby RF hash and trash.  Sure, I'll get some noise levels but I can strap and others like me can strap over it all.  I KNOW you'll always be able to strap Don!

[k4kyv]

I live out in the country on some acreage, and there are no HOA nazis or zoning officials to tell me what kind of antennas I can and cannot put up.  But there is a large population of active duty military and retirees who need a place to live around the nearby army base and its medical facilities. As the old folks die off after the younger generation has moved on, local farms fall by the wayside to be "developed", usually with cheaply constructed houses hidden to the rear of the hideously ugly multi-car garage most are attached to.  That means more power lines, pole transformers, plasma TVs, cable modems, switching wall-warts, touch lamps and other hash-producing consumer junk within interfering range. The electromagnetic smog has steadily increased over the years since I moved back here in 1979, with no comparison to how quiet it was when I lived here with my parents in the 50's and early 60's.  Not to say that rural areas ever were immune to power line noise; in fact, lines out in the  country can be some of the worst offenders. But still, I hear all kinds of buzzies and hash that usen't to be here, and we have only a couple of houses closer than a quarter-mile.

[K5UJ]

<<Agreed BUT as long as I am on my property in the country surrounded by a few acres of my own land....>>

Yeah but for every ham like you there are probably 100 in urban locations dealing with the issues Don described.   I agree--in the end HF ham radio will be two old rich guys who could afford to establish radio quiet zones talking to each other, then one of them will become SK and the other guy will scrap everything and what's left will be what I  call vestigial ham radio--Echolink, QSOnet, DStar, PSK31...all the DSP computer driven plastic box stuff.

I've commented to ARRL before that their spectrum defense targets are wrong--the problem isn't illegal intruders, it's millions of consumer part 15 devices but as far as I can tell, they are not inclined to do anything about that.  My impression (which may be incorrect--I'll freely admit to that) is that we're all on our own, except for dealing with specific cases.  But you can go through all the hoops to get someone to quit using some device, and in a short time if not sooner, another propblem surfaces from some other consumer.

Even if today, the President ordered FCC to ban unfiltered products being imported or domestically manufactured, and gave them a budget to act with, there would be tens of millions of emitting products already in use.

None of this even touches on the other monster, antenna restrictions.

[W2VW]

Sounds ripe for some study money.

Consumer device radiated energy might cause cancer.

Bring on the junk science.

[k4kyv]

I've commented to ARRL before that their spectrum defense targets are wrong--the problem isn't illegal intruders, it's millions of consumer part 15 devices but as far as I can tell, they are not inclined to do anything about that.

It's not that they have been unaware of the problems associated with "state of the fart" consumer (I hate that word) junk.  I recall warnings in QST back in the early 60s regarding the susceptibility of the emerging new solid state consumer devices to RFI from nearby transmitters.  Yet I don't recall lobbying by anyone on a large scale basis - ARRL or the NAB, for regulatory relief or consumer awareness. Sure enough, by the late 70's, complaints about interference to telephones and stereos caused by rf rectification was surpassing complaints about harmonic TVI from ham transmitters.  

My impression (which may be incorrect--I'll freely admit to that) is that we're all on our own, except for dealing with specific cases.  But you can go through all the hoops to get someone to quit using some device, and in a short time if not sooner, another problem surfaces from some other consumer.

Not too long ago, someone on this board IIRC, related a story about a ham whose HF reception was being wiped out by hash from a new LED traffic light next to his house.  He finally got an FCC inspector on the scene to check it out.  The inspector said yes, the light was exceeding Part 15 limits, but he was not going to try to do anything about it.  Another story I heard somewhere that someone  complained to the FCC about line noise or some other kind of problem, and the FCC's response was "put up a better receiving antenna".  OTOH, at the FCC forum at Dayton a couple of years ago, they introduced Laura, who had just  replaced Riley, and she said that one of the Enforcement Division's priorities would be power line noise.

Even if today, the President ordered FCC to ban unfiltered products being imported or domestically manufactured, and gave them a budget to act with, there would be tens of millions of emitting products already in use.

In that event, you would hear screams, cries, personal attacks and protests that the "gubment is overstepping its bounds", "over-regulating" and "taking over the consumer electronics industry", from some of the very same hams who suffer the most from interference produced by this junk.  Remember, all federal regulation is bad, and the US government is inherently incapable of ever getting anything right. We are indeed on our own.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Exactly! What does it cost you to inform/complain to the FCC. The ARRL should get all their members up to speed on how to lodge RFI complaints. When the FCC gets inundated with a couple hundred thousand complaints, maybe something will happen.

Or we can just P&M here and get nothing done. 

[WV Hoopie]

Or we can just P&M here and get nothing done. 

Don't hold your breath, I filed a complaint June 21, 2010; Laura Smith and I have traded several e-mails. To date, zip, nada, nothing has happened. No doubt where the RFI is coming from, back yard neighbor. I've been to their home twice, they insist nothing in their home is causing interference.

But, more hams need to file complaints and get this Part 15 BS enforced.

Craig,

[W1AEX]

It is a huge problem for those of us who value the HF spectrum. Apparently, no one else really cares about it.

The issue affecting a long stretch of road a mile from me, that I posted at YouTube last April...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKs8I-bPyRM

...remains unresolved, even after investigations by the power company, the ARRL, and the affected station's engineer. The source of the obliterating buzzy oscillations in the Broadcast Band remains a mystery. On a humorous note, the FCC informed me (twice) that I should work at improving my receiver's antenna. Apparently, they did not bother to actually read my complaint (Reference Number: 10-C00211501), so they were unaware that the problem mostly affects automobiles traveling through the area. So much for their web-based consumer RFI assistance. I'm glad this noise is not in my neighborhood, and like most other people walking and driving through this affected area, I have tuned elsewhere for entertainment.

Around this time of the year, I cringe as I think about all the trashy electronic products that are sitting under the tree, just waiting to be opened on Christmas morning. Maybe your 5 closest neighbors will be unwrapping plasma televisions, or complete home-plug networking kits, or a nice Ryobi drill with a buzzy wall charger, or a treadmill with a built-in computer that sprays potent oscillations all over the 75 meter band, or one of those slick new charger mats that will pulse charge a cell phone with no wires attached! How wonderful...

[k4kyv]

Exactly! What does it cost you to inform/complain to the FCC. The ARRL should get all their members up to speed on how to lodge RFI complaints. When the FCC gets inundated with a couple hundred thousand complaints, maybe something will happen.

Or we can just P&M here and get nothing done.  

That's the problem.  Most will just P&M about it over the air between accounts of their haemorrhoids and their latest colonoscopy, or else P&M via internet bulletin boards.

So far I have never had to get the FeeCee involved in line noise problems here.  The power company will fix the problem, but I have to locate the source of trouble myself and lead the repair crew by the hand to the spot.  The local power company made national headlines a few years ago when a ham in a town about 25 miles from here repeatedly complained to the FCC.  The commission sent them menacing letters and the power company at least made a half-hearted effort to clean up their act, but the guy still says his noise problems haven't gone away.  But since that incident, the power company seems to take noise complaints a little more seriously. Last time I had a problem, I talked to the manager after the line crew reported several times that they had fixed the problem.  He was very nice and promised to get to it "in a few days".  It was xmas eve a couple of years ago.  I had counted on enduring the noise through the weekend and into the following week.  It disappeared that afternoon, and did not return.

...And if that were not enough, yet another electric utility -- Cumberland

                  Electric Membership Corporation of Clarksville, Tennessee received an

                  inquiry from the Atlanta (FCC) office on excessive powerline noise in the 40

                  meter and 6 meter bands to an Amateur in Springfield, Tennessee

http://technocrat.net/d/2006/2/27/950/

[K5UJ]

Exactly! What does it cost you to inform/complain to the FCC. The ARRL should get all their members up to speed on how to lodge RFI complaints. When the FCC gets inundated with a couple hundred thousand complaints, maybe something will happen.

Or we can just P&M here and get nothing done. 

Folks, this just came out on the ARRL website:

<<<When US Representative Greg Walden, W7EQI (R-OR), learned December 16 that he will be chairing the House Subcommittee on Communications, Technology and the Internet when the 112th Congress convenes in January...>>>

This is the guy we all need to contact about holding the FCC's feet to the fire regarding all these unfiltered consumer electronic devices.

First as Steve posted, we need to follow due process, i.e. attempting to work with the appliance owner (FCC will tell you do try that first) and if that fails, filing a complaint with FCC and then bringing the matter to the attention of Congressman Walden.